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Much better, tbh.

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra (Part 2)

Bah? Bah.

Bah...bah bah. BAH!

...bah.

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

I have little time to post right now (recurring theme). In the flood of posts that came after the end of yesterday's votecount was someone theorizing that I'd attribute the nature of my Clara lynch to stress, which is incorrect. It's better attributed to my being sick, which led to (A) me not clearly explaining why I picked Clara over Kimmy and (B) me waiting until extremely late to move to lynching one of the two (it took Cherry's comment on it for me to realize).

I'm pretty sure I detailed my read on Clara throughout the game; the one thing I may not have mentioned was her tendency to pick one person and focus on them throughout the day, which I saw as very tunnely and agenda based. Day 1 I'm pretty sure I mentioned not liking how she lynched Halsey, said she'd move off if he became townier, then showed no effort to re-analyze him after he'd made a number of other posts. (In fact, I'm pretty sure I bring this up in one of my Day 4 posts as well.) On later days she had good interactions/questioning of the people she lynched, but that in itself was something she'd have done as either alignment after being called out on it and she still focused primarily on pushing one person's lynch.

Right now I still find Infernando to be the scummiest player, and I'd be interested in hearing the thoughts of others on him as well as his reads on Caroline and Cherry (you mention they seem townish to you-now why is that?). The general argument for him being town seems to be that he's too scummy to be scum, which to me doesn't make sense (neither does Cherry's comment on how Infernando pointed something out about mafia killing the person they were fruiting. If everyone got fruit but someone still died, it would instantly become clear that the person before them was the killer. Additionally, the fact that Infernando pointed it out doesn't really mean anything as far as alignment goes.)

I have a number of other things typed up but my battery is low. I'm also in class.

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Cherry P. wrote:psanon def has plurhammer
id advise you switch your lynch to either kimmy or clara because i dont think an infernando lynch is going to gain traction (unless ppl come online sudenly)

NO THIS WHY DOES THIS SCARE ME

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

UNLYNCH INFERNANDO LYNCH CLARA

SINCE OF THE TWO (KIMMY AND CLARA) I STILL SCUMREAD CLARA MORE

INFERNANDO SHOULD BE THE LYNCH TOMORROW STILL

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

WHY DOES THAT SCARE ME

IT SHOULDN'T BUT WHY DOES IT SCARE ME

BUT IT'S ALSO TRUE

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

I AM ABOUT TO START CAPS LOCKING AGAIN I SEE YOU PEOPLE THERE

GET OVER HERE AND TALK TO ME

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Halsey N. wrote:I'll post later. Just came here to say some stuff.

Emmy: Regarding Halsey's theory that one of the "townleaders" is scum, I don't think there's a lot to support it. Some of the reasons Dr. Proctor was likely killed have already been mentioned, but I'd add that Dr. Proctor was someone who could potentially become a fourth townleader or introduce another POV that scum may have felt intimidated by.

Regarding Proctor, he didn't really bring much POV as he did a strategy and some reasons to lynch Jeremiah. You on the other hand brought out the pass fruit strategy. It could be said this is common sense but nonetheless, I'm sure that what Proctor had brought out had been already discussed. I'll recheck that. Also the fact is that he kept stating he was busy and not posting much, I have a doubt he wouldve become a "4th leader"

Regarding Halsey's theory that one of the "townleaders" is scum, I don't think there's a lot to support it.

There is enough support. It is the fact that you didn't die. I can see for why me nor Caroline were killed. The main reason is the infighting between us. However, there were enough people that went against Jeremiah like you did or Proctor so I'm going to outright state that mafia didn't think of taking advantage on that most likely.

From what I can see, what really was on their mind was the following:

if one townleader is killed, then it will narrow down to the mafia if one survives for no reason other than being mafia themselves.

There's also the behavior which I can see as scummy now:

Emmy: Wtf Unlynch Jeremiah W. Lynch Shepherd D.

I feel this was an out of tune partner that just jumped to seize the chance and you outright tried to control him. This ties in to the "opposites of the plan" post which I'll explain later. There is also the fact that you basically stayed on Jeremiah since you "believed" he was scum despite what Shepherd went through (this can also be seen a little when you questioned if you should switch to Jeremiah when you lynched Anima).

Now you want to take the safe option (based on behavior that is way worse than Shepherd) and not lynch Clara instead??? (which tbh, is around the leagues of Jeremiah with the awful reasons to lynch for better or worse)

There is also the fact that you were shaky on somebody like Anima while Infernando being way too similar and showing no restrict on him I don't like as well. All of this just feels like you are taking the safe way out while trying to sound reasonable.

Also, by lynching Infernando, I guess you are denouncing the people next to each other thing and you still haven't read my post about why it makes sense (that was a response to Kimmy's question). Tbh, the fact that you are denouncing it outright and don't believe in the townleader thing means that you are going to lynch another of the "non townleaders' which iirc Caroline already why they are likely to not be partners.

PLUS, the fact that Infernando goes with anybody like Caroline said really seems like you are taking the really safe option out. Why not look at other stuff like interactions rather than just what is blantant scummy. If you notice, Infernando hasn't communicated with anybody at all on any meaningful level which seems weird that you would target somebody like this first and not Clara or Kimmy.

because of all of this

Lynch Emmy A.

So due to hydras I can't reliably answer all of these. The things I can answer:

-I'm not understanding how my not dying supports my being scum. I can see why you and Caroline weren't killed due to the earlier days, but I can't exactly explain why I'm not dead (unless scum were confident in my pushing a Jeremiah lynch, but then again he was a near-universal scumread).

-I started questioning if I should switch to Jeremiah because he went and made two more posts near the end of the day which made me revoke the desire to let him live to the next day. Prior to then I wasn't shaky on Anima at all.

-I in fact wasn't able to read in full your post about certain scumteams (made of people next to each other) not making sense earlier. I'm also not seeing a response to Kimmy regarding it, but I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned how most scumteams wouldn't take the risk of narrowing it down to a few options.

-I'm also not seeing where Caroline explained why the scumteam can't include exclusively non town-leaders. I recall her saying she doesn't think Infernando is scum (which I disagree with), but that's it.

-You're also accusing me of lynching Infernando because he has no interactions with anyone. Has it occurred to you that having no interactions=optimal scum play, and when exac ctly are you planning to take a closer look at Infernando, since he's not exactly showing signs of spewing forth interactions any time soon?

Halsey N. wrote:Forgot to mention that why kill a potential "townleader" when you could kill a certified one but I'm sure that's implied.

It's really not imo, see the Sanpei kill from G29.

Infernando G. wrote:
As for Emmy, Ive been telling y'all since day 1 plus she's tryna low key defend Kimmy

If you're referring to my vote on you, I'd hardly consider that "low key defending Kimmy." I do think you're more likely than him to flip scum, so if you have a problem with that do something to indicate why you're town.

Cherry P. wrote:
also this isnt relevant anymore, so: i remember infernando bringing up that mafia could just kill the person they were supposed to fruit during one of the cycles and saying that they might not be the best way to go because of that, but nobody (aside from me, thankfully) picked up on that. should infernando be scum he couldve just followed up with this strategy (killing the person that either he or his partner was supposed to pass fruit to), and double no deaths makes me think that he isnt mafia. granted, i tried to find the post where he brought this up and couldn't, but i 100% remember it was infernando who brought that up, or at least made me think of it.

I believe he brought it up, but multiple people also explained how there was a 0% chance scum would do that since it would result in being revealed. I'm not understanding why Infernando would as scum kill someone on one of those nights when it would, well, reveal him as scum.

@Cherry: Votes are, if I'm reading correctly, 2-2-1-1 (Kimmy-Clara-Infernando-Emmy). Caroline, there's no such thing as plurhammer.

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Screw you people by the way, there are nine guests online. I don't like being alone at EoD when I'm able to get online for it.

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

I send this computer and its lag to the Nine Hells.

I'll make sure to post whatever I have by deadline, but lag is happening.

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Okay, so I'm feeling slightly better-better at least than I was earlier. I'm going to list out my thoughts not unlike how Caroline did.

List of players: Clara, Halsey, Caroline, Infernando, Kimmy, Cherry.

I'm fairly certain that Halsey, Caroline, and Cherry are town. The former two remain strong townreads for me and I don't really subscribe to the theory that one of them is scum simply because Dr. Proctor was chosen as the nightkill. I also don't see said nightkill coming from Cherry unless she has a partner who really wanted Dr. Proctor dead, but I can't see Cherry being in a scumteam with any of the other players and still performing that kill.

This leaves Clara, Infernando, and Kimmy. Kimmy I've been mostly neutral on while Clara and Infernando have been fairly consistent scumleans, and I do recall thinking at some point during Day 1 that the scumteam could have been Clara+Infernando (I can't recall the exact moment but it was when Clara was lynching Halsey and made some comment like "If Halsey becomes townier I see no better lynch than Infernando" but to me she didn't seem awfully concerned with Halsey's response, which I saw as her possibly not having to switch to Infernando).

I'm in agreement that Clara's lynch on Kimmy feels like a weird omgus just due to how the read suddenly comes out of nowhere with very little detail in the reasoning. She goes back and calls it a pressure lynch, which honestly feels like she's looking for a reason to not unlynch.

Something I'll just add in response to Clara's comment on Kimmy having mostly townreads: Process of elimination is a powerful tool. If I'm in a 4v1 situation and I have 3 players as strong townreads, that leaves the remaining player as the most likely to be scum.

Caroline commented on Infernando filling too many "textbook scum points" to be scum, which is imo more wifom than is worth dealing with and also not a very strong point with which to townread Infernando. I wouldn't even consider the specific reasons I'm scumreading him (mentioned a couple of times before now) to be "textbook."

Infernando G. wrote:I dont see kimmy as scum but clara H seems strange to me

The trend continues in which what you do doesn't line up with what you say you think. If you don't see Kimmy as scum, why leave your vote on him?

Currently I think Infernando has the highest chance of flipping scum so I will lynch Infernando G.

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Regarding Halsey's theory that one of the "townleaders" is scum, I don't think there's a lot to support it. Some of the reasons Dr. Proctor was likely killed have already been mentioned, but I'd add that Dr. Proctor was someone who could potentially become a fourth townleader or introduce another POV that scum may have felt intimidated by.

I did pass fruit to Infernando and also received fruit. What I'm not understanding is how people next to each other in last night's order can't be a scumteam, since even if they were next to each other and decided to kill they would still be outed by someone claiming to not receive fruit.

Clara, how does what Halsey just said make him more likely to be town (both what about it indicates town and what makes it more likely town than risk-taking scum)?

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Halsey N. wrote:Sorry, day was really busy. I'll make this one of my priorities in the morning since tomorrow is a lax day for me. Nobody else replied anyways so it seems I have caused no harm (although it's kinda sad). What happened to Emmy???

I promised myself that I would become more active, then proceeded to get really sick during the night. That's my own problem though. At this point I'm not sure how long I can stay online, but I'll try to remain active for today.

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Here I am!

I wasn't expecting today to be this dead, but then again I've also had a lot going on lately.

Added to the list of things I'm liking about Halsey is his post attempting to clear things up with Caroline. Not only would I expect Halsey as scum to take full advantage of this 1v1 and stay in it, but the fact that he's doing to partially to encourage others to give their insight is opening himself up to questioning in a way I don't think scum would take the risk of doing.

Kimmy, what do you think of Halsey's plan as far as his alignment goes?

Caroline M. wrote:
Caroline M. wrote:I, and the dreary devils with me, believe that we should discuss fruiting. We believe that we should fruit tonight, so we can prevent a nightkill. If we don't prevent the nightkill all that will happen is that we will lose a townie and have less people to discuss with.

I will continue with my dreary list of reads, but right now I forgot about a family thing I needed to deal with and a lot of things I need to catch up on, I apologize for how little I am doing.

The gods of the razzle dazzle along with myself agree with the suggestion that we should fruit today. Currently we are 6v2, worst case scenario we will enter day 4 4v2 which is mylo where fruiting wont make a difference because mafia can just kill (again worst case scenario if we dont lynch a mafia) and its game over. Therefore it's much more dazzlingly safe to fruit tonight.

I agree that we need to discuss fruiting. What I'm wondering is if we should No Lynch during the mylo itself and then fruit that night, since it either gives us an extra day of talking during the mylo or gives us a lylo with a 1v1 between who claims to have recieved fruit from whom. Then again, maybe there's something I'm not noticing since nobody else has brought this up. Regardless, whenever we fruit next we should use the initial randomized fruit circle from the lynched person (the one from Day 1), removing dead players of course.

As Caroline mentioned, Jeremiah has yet to post today. I'm hoping he responds to being prodded whenever that happened/happens, but I'm not moving my lynch off of him exclusively due to his not posting today (he has 2 days of posts we can look at already).

Actually, I just realized only half of the living players (Kimmy, Caroline, myself, and Halsey) have posted anything meaningful today, which is disheartening.

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Just got to finish looking over the end of yesterday and I have to go.

Hopefully I have the chance to look at today more later.

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Jeremiah W. wrote:
"obsessed" since when was I "obsessed" with making "bad arguments" targeted at you? How about you also list examples, hmm?
Alright, so this defence was pretty good, placed a pressure vote to make her post something. My memory served
me incorrectly about 7th point she quoted. Unlynch Cherry, Lynch Shepherd., this is my other scumread, reasons are in my quarter read list.

@Cherry

There's a dissonance here from Jeremiah that doesn't read as town. To begin with, the initial comment of "How about you list examples, hmm?" implies that he's unsatisfied with your response and thus still scumreads you. Yes he instantly turns around to call your defense a good one when all you basically said was, "Your argument is bad," something he presumably disagrees with since (A) the first line implies he doesn't think he making a bad argument and (B) if he was town he'd have no reason to intentionally push a bad argument and make a pressure vote for the sole-purpose of making someone post. He'd be more concerned with the content of the post itself. As Dr. Proctor mentioned it's another example of passivity, like he wanted to appear to be scumhunting/pushing someone but was ready to back off at the slightest sign of a defense.

You mention that if you were in his situation you'd drop the case too, but why would he make that kind of case to begin with?

Cherry P. wrote:
Emmy A. wrote:I THOUGHT THAT YOU WERE TRYING TO PUSH HIM BASED ON WHAT I INTERPRETED AS A PREGAME JOKE, WHICH I DIDN'T LIKE

THIS IS DEFINITIVELY NOT A JOKE DUE TO THE FACT THAT IT APPEARS IN MULTIPLE POSTS AS HOW HE IS PLAYING AND HE'S MADE EFFORTS TO SEEM LIKE HE'S ACTUALLY SCUMHUNTING WHEN HE'S CALLED OUT ON IT BUT THE EFFORTS THEMSELVES ARE WEAK ONES

but its still the same attitude that I called out, silly!

Okay, so

You initially lynched Jeremiah based on his pregame strikethtough comments. What I interpreted at the time was that you were attempting to push him as a hard scumread based on "pregame shit" as Clara called it. What I'm basing my current scumread on him on is his passive play and hedging on reads, which has continued throughout the game itself. The "attitude you called out" was, in my opinion, a joke, and I didn't get why you were pushing someone for a joke (If someone said "Can confirm I'm scum with Player A" would you believe them instantly?).

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Things to reiterate from yesterday, now that I can read it and not have to panic because of deadlines:

Clara, what are your reads on people currently?

Regarding stating your vote is pressure:

Emmy A. wrote:
@Cherry, I don't think there's a problem with lynching for pressure. The theory is that if they're town they assume they're playing optimally anyway and won't feel worried about how they look, while scum will end up taking such care to fix their posts that they end up looking forced or giving opinions that line up only with what they think people want to hear.

To explain a bit more, it's generally clear (imo) when someone's reaction to pressure is genuine vs when it is forced.

Having the chance to read over Jeremiah's readlist more now, I'm noticing issues with it.

Regarding Clara, you say that a Clara+Shepherd scumteam becomes more viable if she starts a shift to you. As you acknowledge yourself she mentioned not having looked into you as much yet, and this feels a lot like someone setting up a Clara lynch before Clara can fully scumread you (such that you can say "It's not omgus, I said I'd scumread her if she did this!"). Phrased differently, it's as if you're trying to trap her: if she scumreads you she must be scum and partners with Shepherd (which by the way, what made you conclude she could only be with Shepherd if she pushed you?), if she doesn't you still bring up the "there are strong reasons but I haven't looked back at him yet" to push her with.

Your Halsey read seems vague, but that may be me nitpicking. Basically it's throwing out a lot of phrases that don't necessarily point to anything alignment-wise (he's responding quickly and asking questions/analyzing well, good for him), which I've seen scum do before when they just want to sheep the consensus.

The Shepherd read was commented on yesterday, I still don't see a problem with the read itself.

Considering Caroline's interactions with Halsey, I have trouble seeing how you don't see her as scumhunting. You say a lot of the things here that you do about Halsey, so if you could explain more what difference you see that makes you put Caroline as neutral that would be helpful. You talk about Caroline over-analyzing, so where do you draw the line between analysis alone being towny and scummy over-analysis? Also can you give some examples of how you think she's just analyzing as opposed to scumhunting?

Admittedly your comment on Cherry primarily responding to things is somewhat valid, as is the activity drop Day 2. I need to go over Cherry's posts when I have time to see if this a recurring trend though.

And having had the chance to read over these

Unlynch Infernando G.
Lynch Jeremiah W.

Since a lynch is unlikely to cause Infernando to do anything and Jeremiah remains a stronger scumread.

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Oh hey, it's later today. I was lowkey hoping for some kind of reaction from someone, but since it hasn't been that long and reactions weren't the primary purpose of that vote I'm not too upset.

Right now I'm not voting Jeremiah because I assume, hopefully correctly, that he's going to come online and respond to things at some point before the end of the day. Either Jeremiah's comments would be helpful in that area. Meanwhile, I feel like Infernando has been escaping having pressure on him due to the stigma surrounding lynching a lurker, when there's a reason lurking is considered scummy (it makes one unreadable/a null read, which is an ideal position for scum to be in). There are also the other problems I mentioned earlier regarding his Day 1 posts (primarily hypocrisy, with one complaining about his partner lynching and leaving only to unlynch and leave himself, and the other apparently having a problem with this unlynch but not revoting despite "exercising his rights by using his lynch" being important for him.)

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Hey all, I got trapped by real life again and I'm sorry for my delay in posting. Right now I can only make a short post, but later today I'll be online a bit more.

Lynch Infernando, to be explained when "later today" comes.

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Shepherd D. wrote:If Jeremiah is town, Cherry is scum.
If Jeremiah is scum, Cherry is town.

There simply aren't enough people on right now to take plur off me, so I'm honestly just throwing reads out there. Enjoy them as you wish...

WAIT WHAT

WE HAVE TWO MINUTES QUICK WHERE DID THIS COME FROM

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Cherry P. wrote:
Emmy A. wrote:
Cherry P. wrote:
Shepherd D. wrote:Lastly, I don't like the way he immediately unlynched Cherry after she posted, almost as if he didn't even read it. That was some pretty harsh skepticism, and just because of one wallpost defense you completely drop it?

lol his argument was not harsh whatsoever, and I refuted all but one of his points (maybe two?) in that defense, i'd drop the case too

YOU DON'T THINK HE'D MAKE AN EFFORT TO DEFEND HIS PUSH EVEN A BIT?

his push was pure garbage, i dont think it was actually defensible aside from the one point i asked for evidence on

BUT WHY WOULD HE MAKE IT TO BEGIN WITH IF HE DIDN'T PLAN ON DEFENDING IT?

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

I THOUGHT THAT YOU WERE TRYING TO PUSH HIM BASED ON WHAT I INTERPRETED AS A PREGAME JOKE, WHICH I DIDN'T LIKE

THIS IS DEFINITIVELY NOT A JOKE DUE TO THE FACT THAT IT APPEARS IN MULTIPLE POSTS AS HOW HE IS PLAYING AND HE'S MADE EFFORTS TO SEEM LIKE HE'S ACTUALLY SCUMHUNTING WHEN HE'S CALLED OUT ON IT BUT THE EFFORTS THEMSELVES ARE WEAK ONES

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Cherry P. wrote:
Shepherd D. wrote:Lastly, I don't like the way he immediately unlynched Cherry after she posted, almost as if he didn't even read it. That was some pretty harsh skepticism, and just because of one wallpost defense you completely drop it?

lol his argument was not harsh whatsoever, and I refuted all but one of his points (maybe two?) in that defense, i'd drop the case too

YOU DON'T THINK HE'D MAKE AN EFFORT TO DEFEND HIS PUSH EVEN A BIT?

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

YOU KNOW WHAT SCREW EVERYTHING

UNLYNCH SHEPHERD D.
LYNCH JEREMIAH W.

HALSEY AND INFERNANDO SHOULD DO THINGS

Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

I BELIEVE WE ARE IDLING UNTIL ONE SCUM DIES THEN WE ARE DOING THE DOCTOR PROCTOR SYSTEM OF CLEARING VIA FRUIT