Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

especially when said scumbuddy is a lurky user who came in D4 to ask what are the reads on them are

I need to go to a relative's house right now but you can expect some juicy posts out of me when I'm back

Ok so I'm back, lemme just quickly put something here to show I exist before I go off to quote things so people won't pester me for evidence to back up my claims. Cherry Picking is when I only mention the parts that benefit my case on you, and ignore anything that doesn't help me. Infernando's lynch on me was not a cherry pick, it would be if they had, say a decent reason to lynch me or expressed his opinion on me rather than just put a naked vote on me, but the vote was all but reasoned. There's nothing else I can make it out to be other than a chainsaw.

Clara H. wrote:Pregame shit just refers to anything posted in pregame that's random and unrelated to the game. It's just not worth looking into more than a day 1 RV

I feel like people are misunderstanding my read on hasley, but w/e

Jeremiah, I suggested a Infernando lynch not when Hasley started to defend himself, but at the end of the post where I stated my read on Hasley

I need a good session to sit down and read everything. I'll probably make a large post during night unless school is busier than normal

As for my randomised list

Dr Procter
Infernando
Anima
Clara
Emmy
Jeremiah
Caroline
Kimmy
Cherry
Shepherd
Hasley

For starters, this was the last post made by Clara Day 1, AFTER Anima's bolded question mark (that we somehow had whole paragraphs of discussion about that I needed to sift through). The fact that they knew about the randomized list implied they've read the game, but they never did respond to anything related to Anima. So my point, "Saw the whole fiasco but stayed on Halsey" is true

Clara H. wrote:I ISO'd kimmy and his 'strong scumread' on Jeremiah was 1 post per day explaining a sr, and every post after that was saying 'I still sr jeremiah' without really looking at the posts Jeremiah made in the day or commenting on them at all.

In these posts he also throws out reads on other players in the same style that made him sr Jeremiah. X pings me as town for Y
Z pings.me as scum because of A, but he has been doing B so it makes it fairly neutral' without really expanding on any of them

I also ISO'd myself c:
I really don't see where you are getting the passive thing from, could you please explain how I have been acting passive if you haven't been

1. Because nothing they did changed my read on them. Would you prefer it if I self-quoted every time instead?

2. Because everything I SRed people for were either self-explanatory (Anima), previously stated (Jeremiah), or just elaborated on but in a different series of posts (Cherry). Cherry notably was the hardest slot for me to read, their push on Halsey was weird, them dropping the case was done in a very townlike manner tonally, but at the same time weird, but it was start of Day 3, where they pulled the pressure vote thing that made me sway to Town on them.

3. I never said I wasn't passive, I just said that you have no right to lynch me for passivity.

Kimmy S. wrote:@Clara: That wasn't really "leading", and even after that you've sorta just been agreeing/disagreeing with anything coming your way. You accuse me of not having any strong SR but the thing here is that I don't need one. At this point, most of my reads are coming from PoE and all that needs to haooen is some guy being slightly less towny than everyone else. Sometimes, you dont need a strong SR but a bunch of TRs. And indeed, I have been providing my townreads, and I dont believe your vote on me is justified.

<snip>

Currently not liking Clara's immediate reaction to my scumread of them,  feels very OMGUSy and as if to scare me off attacking them. Their entire point against me is 3 lines long on mobile and it's mostly bending my own words to try to implicate me, notably the part about 'not having a strong SR', when they themselves don't have a strong read of any kind barring the one im currently refuting.

<snip>

Clara H. wrote:@kimmy
My problem is that you accuse me of being passive, but then you claim yourself that you don't have strong scumreads, and mainly had townreads. This comes across as you wanting to mainly make friends, not enemies.
Also, it appears you are bending my words. The difference is, I Had a strong sr on Shepherd, whilst you have been twiddling your thumbs townreading everyone
My lynch on you was mainly a pressure lynch to see how you would react, and you reacted my OMGUSing with poor reason

@infernando
What
The faction that would be most worried about people's opinion on them is scum. So how about, what is YOUR read on everybody else? Gdi

Looking at it right now, I would be fine with either of these players being lynched. I'm not sure how everyone has come to the decision one of the leaders is scum. I'm not saying it's not true, but I don't see how this is for certain

Still has not responded to: 1. "That wasn't really "leading", and even after that you've sorta just been agreeing/disagreeing with anything coming your way." (and no, "I Had a strong sr on Shepherd" does not count). 2. Why they called my whole vote OMGUS when I had a good reason to.


Should be responding to: All the stuff up there + stuff that you haven't responded to + more dirt on me to explain why your vote is still on me.


I think I'm done for now, I need to get off now anyways so I'll expect to see answers when I get back on

bc Jeremiah's read made sense to me and he was a good egg. I think scum is Kimmy and Emmy.

and AJ can't find more subs so I'm trying to do what i ca. Poor little aj.

1. Yes, I would. If you truely wanted Jeremiah lynched, you would respond and look at all their posts, instead of saying 1 thing and then claiming you had a strong sr on them.

2. That doesn't make it a different e thing you SR'd Jeremiah for

3. You originally call me out for being passive, before I did. Stop twisting things to help you



Next post
1. If responding to almost all the persons posts, and explaining my sr whenever I posted isnt leading a lynch, I'm interested in what is.
As I believe I already said, can you show examples of me only agreeing or disagreeing with things? I don't believe I have been doing that at all

I called it OMGUS because it had poor reasoning behind it. Also, why should I need to provide more dirt on you, but when you were lynching Jeremiah, it was fine for you to make 1 post on him, and completely leave him with your lynch on him and then claim you had a strong sr on him.

Infernando, do you have any reasoning of your own?

Kimmy you talk about how tring almost everyone isn't weird because it'll leave just those who are less towny and as such are scum, but doesn't that mean you have a shitty scale? like, your scale should not be the same every dreary game. If you've got a game with 4 people you are certain are town and then the other 3 you're not so sure but still kind of convinced, then you put the 4 in a scale going from completely town to possibly town and the other 3 from neutral to scum. it's that simple.

You don't get to say it's a process of elimination thing when you're not eliminating anything. The entire idea of reads is to look at the game and see who is scummier than the rest. You don't do that by tring everyone, at least town doesn't do that by tring everyone. Scum might.

I dont see kimmy as scum but clara H seems strange to me

Ok so the 2 hydras disagree
Care to explain YOUR read?

Okay, so I'm feeling slightly better-better at least than I was earlier. I'm going to list out my thoughts not unlike how Caroline did.

List of players: Clara, Halsey, Caroline, Infernando, Kimmy, Cherry.

I'm fairly certain that Halsey, Caroline, and Cherry are town. The former two remain strong townreads for me and I don't really subscribe to the theory that one of them is scum simply because Dr. Proctor was chosen as the nightkill. I also don't see said nightkill coming from Cherry unless she has a partner who really wanted Dr. Proctor dead, but I can't see Cherry being in a scumteam with any of the other players and still performing that kill.

This leaves Clara, Infernando, and Kimmy. Kimmy I've been mostly neutral on while Clara and Infernando have been fairly consistent scumleans, and I do recall thinking at some point during Day 1 that the scumteam could have been Clara+Infernando (I can't recall the exact moment but it was when Clara was lynching Halsey and made some comment like "If Halsey becomes townier I see no better lynch than Infernando" but to me she didn't seem awfully concerned with Halsey's response, which I saw as her possibly not having to switch to Infernando).

I'm in agreement that Clara's lynch on Kimmy feels like a weird omgus just due to how the read suddenly comes out of nowhere with very little detail in the reasoning. She goes back and calls it a pressure lynch, which honestly feels like she's looking for a reason to not unlynch.

Something I'll just add in response to Clara's comment on Kimmy having mostly townreads: Process of elimination is a powerful tool. If I'm in a 4v1 situation and I have 3 players as strong townreads, that leaves the remaining player as the most likely to be scum.

Caroline commented on Infernando filling too many "textbook scum points" to be scum, which is imo more wifom than is worth dealing with and also not a very strong point with which to townread Infernando. I wouldn't even consider the specific reasons I'm scumreading him (mentioned a couple of times before now) to be "textbook."

Infernando G. wrote:I dont see kimmy as scum but clara H seems strange to me

The trend continues in which what you do doesn't line up with what you say you think. If you don't see Kimmy as scum, why leave your vote on him?

Currently I think Infernando has the highest chance of flipping scum so I will lynch Infernando G.

Kimmy S. wrote:Caroline, how is it a lousy way to scumhunt when townhunting is essentially using PiE, which is what you yourself are doing? The question I'm referring to is the one about why he scumreads Emmy > Caroline.

Because it isn't scumhunting. Instead of looking at what people have done that is scummy, you do the opposite. Therefore all those mafia who act as if they are helping/leading town is just straight up town in your eyes. And no although I did say I was dazzlingly using PoE and deduction in that post I made, I made it clear that I am not substituting this for the usual dazzling scumhunting I do which is why I didn't lynch anyone based off of that post. That being said, I havent done much day 4 and I don't think I can do it today either because of how busy my day has been. However I will make sure everyone is dazzled when I am in my prime tomorrow.

Kimmy S. wrote:
Clara, you had a strong SR on Shepherd, so what. What else have you done? I had a strong SR on Jeremiah for pretty much 2.5 days, are you saying that's worth nothing? Again, I don't need a strong SR now, I just need one person to be less towny than everyone else and that's you right here.

I am dazzled by your meaning of "towny". So as I understand your method of "scumhunting" is to see which person is acting the less "towny" which would mean acting in such a way that doesnt benefit town and also includes the stereotypical scummy traits. However infernando pretty much ticks all the dazzling boxes in terms of actions that are considered "not towny", yet you seem to believe that clara is acting less towny than Infernando? Either you aren't following your own scumhunting strategy, or you have some other dazzling perception on what "towny" means that you need to explain.

Kimmy S. wrote:
You say I only look to make friends but then if I wanted that I'd be doing what you're doing and agreeing/disagreeing with everything that comes my way rather than what I've actually been doing, i.e questioning stuff.

Questioning stuff in no way does it create an enemy. All it does is prompt another person to elaborate or explain why they did something. What does potentially create an enemy however is going one step further and accusing them/scumreading them. You did this against Halsey which you then backtracked but thats fine since you explained why. However after that you pretty much havent done any of the sort which is probably what gave Halsey the impression that you have become very lax. You went against Anima who was lynched so no enemy made there, jeremiah picked the fight first which means he made an enemy against you and not the other way round, similarly with clara since she straight up lynched you which then triggered the fight. Questioning stuff, although isn't a bad thing, on it's own just feels like a way to make yourself seem helpful without going out of your way to try and find the mafia. I did like the fact you made a vote count analysis, however you didn't really come out with any conclusions from it since you said

Kimmy S. wrote:
Overall, Clara + Caro/Emmy looks plausible-ish, what with Clara's dislike towards the "town leader scum theory", and Infernando being a massive black box and all, Infernando + pretty much anyone else is also plausible. Cherry feels town based on recent play and VCA is kind to them too so I think they're Town for now.

Which shows that the reasoning for your conclusions werent actually from the VCA except Cherry and even then it was more based on her "recent play".

Kimmy S. wrote:
This is scum trying to push a lynch for all the logically wrong reasons. I've rebutted everything they've said but they still cling in with claims of OMGUS. I don't think Town looks this desperately to get someone lynched even if they essentially have nothing on them, only Scum wants to get people lynched regardless of alignment, and that's what Clara is doing.

Which begs the question, would scum really try so hard to get someone so dazzling and clean to get lynched? I mean Infernando is right there and available, she could have just taken the easy option. So what makes you think Clara is forcing the push rather than she actually thinks you are mafia but with perhaps (in your opinion) flawed logic? If your answer is because she and infernando are scumpartners then that means you cant use the reason that she is against the "townleader is scum" point. It also makes no sense for her to call infernando out earlier when there wasnt much reason against him except stuff like lurking and reluctance to help town, but then when infernando asks what everyone's read on them was, she doesn't call him out at all? I am gonna dazzlingly analyse both of you tomorrow since I am really tired today and dont have much time, but after that I should have a clearer idea on both of you in everything that has happened.

Halsey N. wrote:Caroline, starting with the post I gave times for (quoting them)

Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:

Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:

Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:

Fair enough I think I missed the middle one. But that still makes it twice since we are counting how many times you said it before you said "I asked you 3 times already". That's probably why I felt like you were exaggerating at the time. Also about the intentions thing, I am gonna wait until you explain further what you wanted to explain so that I can grasp the full picture before replying (and also because I am tired lol).

I'll post later. Just came here to say some stuff.


Emmy: Regarding Halsey's theory that one of the "townleaders" is scum, I don't think there's a lot to support it. Some of the reasons Dr. Proctor was likely killed have already been mentioned, but I'd add that Dr. Proctor was someone who could potentially become a fourth townleader or introduce another POV that scum may have felt intimidated by.

Regarding Proctor, he didn't really bring much POV as he did a strategy and some reasons to lynch Jeremiah. You on the other hand brought out the pass fruit strategy. It could be said this is common sense but nonetheless, I'm sure that what Proctor had brought out had been already discussed. I'll recheck that. Also the fact is that he kept stating he was busy and not posting much, I have a doubt he wouldve become a "4th leader"

Regarding Halsey's theory that one of the "townleaders" is scum, I don't think there's a lot to support it.

There is enough support. It is the fact that you didn't die. I can see for why me nor Caroline were killed. The main reason is the infighting between us. However, there were enough people that went against Jeremiah like you did or Proctor so I'm going to outright state that mafia didn't think of taking advantage on that most likely.

From what I can see, what really was on their mind was the following:

if one townleader is killed, then it will narrow down to the mafia if one survives for no reason other than being mafia themselves.

There's also the behavior which I can see as scummy now:

Emmy: Wtf Unlynch Jeremiah W. Lynch Shepherd D.


I feel this was an out of tune partner that just jumped to seize the chance and you outright tried to control him. This ties in to the "opposites of the plan" post which I'll explain later. There is also the fact that you basically stayed on Jeremiah since you "believed" he was scum despite what Shepherd went through (this can also be seen a little when you questioned if you should switch to Jeremiah when you lynched Anima).

Now you want to take the safe option (based on behavior that is way worse than Shepherd) and not lynch Clara instead??? (which tbh, is around the leagues of Jeremiah with the awful reasons to lynch for better or worse)

There is also the fact that you were shaky on somebody like Anima while Infernando being way too similar and showing no restrict on him I don't like as well. All of this just feels like you are taking the safe way out while trying to sound reasonable.

Also, by lynching Infernando, I guess you are denouncing the people next to each other thing and you still haven't read my post about why it makes sense (that was a response to Kimmy's question). Tbh, the fact that you are denouncing it outright and don't believe in the townleader thing means that you are going to lynch another of the "non townleaders' which iirc Caroline already why they are likely to not be partners.

PLUS, the fact that Infernando goes with anybody like Caroline said really seems like you are taking the really safe option out. Why not look at other stuff like interactions rather than just what is blantant scummy. If you notice, Infernando hasn't communicated with anybody at all on any meaningful level which seems weird that you would target somebody like this first and not Clara or Kimmy.

because of all of this

Lynch Emmy A.

Forgot to mention that why kill a potential "townleader" when you could kill a certified one but I'm sure that's implied.

Responding more later but to Caroline: Clara voted me first but I expressed discontent about them first.

I don't think I'm "dazzling and clean", I'm the least active among the bunch of you guys. I do, however, have an idea of why they'll push me as scum. For one, my lack of strong SRs mean it's hard to incriminate people when I flip. I also already expressed intention to lynch them, which they decided to lynch me first to either place plurality on me, look like the instigator, or as I said before, scare me off the vote and use OMGUS as a reasoning to push me more if I ended up voting them.

Votecount 4.3
******************************
Kimmy S.(2)- Clara H., Infernando G.
Clara H.(1)- Kimmy S.
Infernando G.(1)- Emmy A.
Emmy A.(1)- Halsey N.
Cherry P.(0)-
Halsey N.(0)-
Caroline M.(0)-
Not Voting(2)- Cherry P., Caroline M.
******************************
There are 7 alive so it takes 4 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Sunday the 24th at 9pm EST.

If the deadline was now, Kimmy S. would be lynched.

Idk what the other infernando is on about

but to me, I read most of the previous day during the night and ya know when someone flips scum or town and u go back to read what they said and u see it in a different perspective than before cause u actually know their role and what not, ya guys know what I'm saying? Well I did that and Jeremiah's read and kimmy's responses make kimmy give off very scummy vibes
As for Emmy, Ive been telling y'all since day 1 plus she's tryna low key defend Kimmy
Y'all laugh at me now but when they flip scum infernando is gonna be there to say he warned u frens

TO OTHER INFERNANDO: Unless ur like absolutely positive about a read I would appreciate u to not unlynch my lynches like my old partner did (remember when he literally came online JUST to unlynch my lynch and didn't say anything else at all??????)
And if u are positive then explain them to me so we can come to a mutual agreement

More in like, 5 hours

I can't speak now but to Infernando: Yes we know scumread me because of Jeremiah but we're asking WHY to you believe, WHAT about the reasoning and HOW my responses are sxummy

never fear cherry is here
time to do the many things i said i was going to do

so before reading through everything i was gutreading emmy and clara as scum, with no real reason (of course, what else do you expect). that probably influenced what i looked at. might notve though, but whatever, worth mentioning

Clara H. wrote:
Second of all: I'm 100% Down for this strategy. So we don't confuse people, we will go Down the PL, in the order Hasley stated

interestingly enough I didnt pick up on this until now, but clara displays the exact same thing i got upset at halsey for. is it relevant right now? honestly, most likely not, but whatever.

Emmy A. wrote:I thought about a fool-proof way to break this fruiting system.

Of course, it requires the fullest support of town is sort of counter-intuitive, but I think it is the only fool-proof way.

Basically, we have the person who is being lynched making the randomized list --- this way if they flip town, we have a non-manipulated list to use, and if they flip scum, well, we have lynched scum and that is always a plus

scum has no reason to bring this up which made me think of emmy as townier

Kimmy S. wrote:

Anima V. wrote:?

?
OK so we need you to 1. Provide a nice substantial post detailing your thoughts on the game and the state of your reads, with nice solid reasoning hopefully, 2. A Fruit Circle from you we need to use once you flip and 3. A (quote) dazzling defense (unquote) (sorry I had to do this) from you that'll hopefully lead us to flashwagon onto some random scum.

this reaction just seems incredibly town to me, since scum can easily hop on the bandwagon here (i dont even think it was that strong at this point) w/o attracting much suspicion.

Clara H. wrote:umm hasley all your wierd clears based on the fruits are null because there was no nk
kimmy claims I have been very passive, yet I p much led the lynch on shepherd. On the other hand, you have been making fairly large posts, but I havent really seen a strong sr coming out of you. Lynch Kimmy

i agree with this, i think clara pretty actively went after shepherd, although some of the points she brought up were repeated. aside from that i do think she's been fairly passive though.

ajhockeystar wrote:
everyone please put in effort it's v hard to find subs

rip

also this isnt relevant anymore, so: i remember infernando bringing up that mafia could just kill the person they were supposed to fruit during one of the cycles and saying that they might not be the best way to go because of that, but nobody (aside from me, thankfully) picked up on that. should infernando be scum he couldve just followed up with this strategy (killing the person that either he or his partner was supposed to pass fruit to), and double no deaths makes me think that he isnt mafia. granted, i tried to find the post where he brought this up and couldn't, but i 100% remember it was infernando who brought that up, or at least made me think of it.

this is shorter than i expected it to be
anyways, im in a pickle because at this point im townreading everyone for different reasons:
caroline/clara for their reasoning, halsey/emmy for my interactions with them, kimmy for his reactions to other people, and infernando for the above
granted just tr'ing someone for their reasoning is weak, esp since we've only lynched town till now, so should i lynch itll probably be in those two

also question for kimmy: if you had to townread or scumread me, which would it be? you can express why but i just want to know if you tr or sr me (explanations would be appreciated though)