Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Kimmy S. wrote:So you scumread Cherry more than anyone else at this point of the game? If so why? I myself don't really see anything scumread worthy in their posts, and I don't see where you find the confusion from.

On a similar note, what is your opinion on Cherry responding to Halsey's supposed bait like that? Do you think they're more town or scum for it?

To Jeremiah, what is your opinion on the other players in the game currently?

I covered most of what the first part is asking in my last post. I haven't gone into detail on other players' posts and plan to reassess my lynch after I do, and for now the lynch on Cherry isn't doing any harm.

I discussed this briefly, but I'm not sure what her falling for Halsey's "bait" would prove. On one hand, it could be viewed as a mafia member seeing an easy target and jumping at the opportunity. However, it could also be a pressure lynch from a townie that noticed a post that was out of place since what it brought up had already been discussed. Although this lynch in addition to the lynch made on me doesn't make sense to me based on her stated reasons for doing so, I can understand that if both lynches were made the pressure the lynch target, then they would make logical sense, and both lynches essentially accomplished that. My issue has been that I'm not sure that her motive for lynching was to pressure Halsey or myself, but that she sincerely scumreads me for a post made in jest before the game started.

Ok, I just read through Cherry's posts again.

From what I can gather (correct me if I'm wrong), she lynched me off the bat as a sort of RVS, sort of reasoned lynch. She used a pre-game post as the basis for her argument, but lynched me mostly to say: "hey, don't think like that during the actual game." I didn't really get that and thought that she found I joke I made before the game was a legitimate reason to call me a scumread.

Her switching of the lynch to Halsey was because her reasons for lynching him were based of actions and decisions he made during the actual game. She describes his first few posts as "shitposts" and said they didn't add any new ideas to the game. I'm not sure if she meant to use her lynch to pressure him, but she saw his actions as scummy and her lynch got a better explanation out of him, so I guess the end justifies the means.

After I read through the sea of megaquotes again, I'll point out anything I find scummy. For now, I'll

unlynch Cherry.

I am absolutely dazzled that Kimmy doesnt like my manner of speech! But oh well, I guess I cant please everyone...

Shepherd D. wrote:The fruit strategy seems like it won't be entirely fruitless, but we must note that mafia could just idle kill every night and continue to fruit. At the most, it eliminates mafia's kill mechanic, but it won't entirely win the game unless mafia is dumb. And about the RVS, I'm not very strict with RVS, I prefer to lynch and if they don't even react to the RVS then I move on from them. I would've been happy if Cherry would've told me her thoughts though.

So this post hasnt got anything wrong with it imo, my problem with Shepherd is the lack of what he did after this post despite coming on at a few occasions iirc (last time he came on was like 3 or 4 hours ago). Not only did he not respond to the questions that emmy(?) imposed about his RVS lynch actions, he also decided not to follow up on his curiosity for Cherry's thoughts despite saying he would have been happy if Cherry told him her thoughts. The fact that he seems to not care about what Cherry has to say contradicts his claim that he would've been happy if Cherry told him her thoughts. Therefore it looks like Shepherd added that statement to provide a townie image rather than actually caring about finding scum which itself is scummy.

Halsey N. wrote:

Now for my brilliant plan (might have overthought it though). I was seeing some of the game chat and saw how alot of reactions were based from the RVS. So I decided to filler and repost the same info and see if they brought different reactions from the accounts. Since this was something really unexpected, I was trying to see if some people broke character (mainly get reads from them). I also thought about the two person mechanic and even though two people might act differently, if the goal is the same as the other person, they will try to pressure on it. For example, let's say the other person in my account thought my reads were wrong, they might say oops and say something different or add on to the reads. Mafia however if their goal is to only lynch a person, will most likely keep their goal the same and stay on the same target as the other player in that account. You can say I threw in a random variable to cause some stimuli. I waited 10 hours and tried to see if anything changed and how players reacted to my post. I liked what I saw from players like Emmi since they didnt try to outright lynch me and see the positive of that. I did not like what I saw from players like Cherry which I stated above.

From what I understand from this dazzling plan, you want to see which accounts show conflict in ideas and which show users backing each other up. You are saying that those who show a conflict in ideas are more likely to be town because of differences in ideas when scumhunting. You also say that users (of the same account) who look like they are backing each other up are more likely to be mafia because they both have the same goal of getting someone lynched (please correct me if I am misunderstanding). However you then say that you dont like what you saw from Cherry yet I dont see how you could possibly tell if 2 users have been posting under Cherry's account? Like atm I think only one Cherry has been posting thus far but idk because if its 2 then their posting styles are very similar. Therefore it seems as though the timing of the reveal of your dazzling plan (or as you say "waiting 10 hours") is off because your plan didnt actually fish out any scumtells, rather it was your "warped view" or whatever you called it when you acknowledged Cherry's reasoning in the end. This makes this whole "plan" look made up and tbh it just seems like you wanted to save your partner by making it look like it was all schemed.

Jeremiah W. wrote:

Halsey N. wrote:
Jeremiah W. & Cherry P.: I have some questions to ask you Jeremiah. First of all, I can see some tension between you and Cherry yet your post on Cherry is from RVS and you seem to be avoiding conflict and dismissing Cherry

Although it's ironic since Cherry is completely right about you Jeremiah (from what you have done after that post). This has been what you have been doing all game, being cautious not to single out a player and to pick a fight. Your posts are so reserved and are mainly conformations (or asking) to what has already been discussed.

I'm sorry if I missed it but I couldn't find any questions for me in the post I quoted this from.

In terms of the comment I made pre game, it was pre game and I really didn't think of it as anything other than that.  My "sudden decrease" in activity has been over the past 24 hours or so, during which I hadn't had a chance to access the forums and about 4 pages of posts were made (which I just had to read through).  I'm not sure if my other half came on without posting, but I'd assume his circumstances were about the same.  

On Cherry, I remember someone townreading her for sticking to her read under pressure.  I believe she at most had 2 lynches on her at any one time, and the thought process she was defending was:
-fos person (was it the one who came on w/o confirming? I don't remember)
-scumread person based on pre game post and lynch
-see someone restate information and switch lynch

which isn't exactly the best logic to follow, despite this being day 1.  My lynch is on her right now and I don't care to unlynch since her defense of this confusing logical progression irks me.

On to Halsey.  From what I can gather, he read through the game, pretended not to have read through the game, and restated information to see if anyone jumped on him for restating information.  I have no way to confirm or deny that he knew what he was doing, but I can confirm that if he did, Cherry 100% fell for the bait.  Someone who shows up suddenly and immediately starts out by being redundant would quickly become a very easy target, something that it seems that she picked up on (or didn't if it was a trap I guess).  Regardless, I don't see the reposting of the idea as all that scummy, and his analysis otherwise isn't raising many red flags (at this point, I've gotten notifications of multiple posts from you while I've been typing this and haven't read those yet).  

Now hopefully this isnt because I am misunderstanding halsey's plan but I dont see how Cherry fell for the bait at all because from what I understand, Halsey wasnt trying to see how ready a user is in trying to lynch a user who does something weird. Instead he was trying to see if anyone broke character and also split ideas between the 2 users of an account which Cherry didnt do. So far I havent really seen you attempt to do any of your own scumhunting or pressuring and instead you tried to give an excuse by saying "i dont tend to go after a person until I am fairly sure they are mafia". Effectively you are saying that you are just gonna let others do the hard work in pressuring and causing scum to potentially slip, then when you are "fairly sure" that someone is mafia you go for them. Weak information to work with doesnt mean you should wait until day 2 or something until you actually make an effort, to me your lack of effort is giving a fairly scummy vibe.

Although I like the way Cherry dazzlingly handled the pressure from Emmy and Halsey (and a bit of me), I still think the following reason makes her seem lynch-happy. When Cherry first lynched Jeremiah the reasoning that his mindset is scummy wasnt in Cherry's mind since she had forgotten it at the time. Instead she only lynched to follow up while having the FoS on Anima. Yet she still lynched Jeremiah despite the fact she didnt actually have a reason and at the time had a better reason to lynch Anima. Her readiness to lynch despite not having a reason at the time shows a hint of lynch-happiness. The fact that she remembered her reasoning is irrelevant because analysis of a lynch-happy person involves the moment of the lynch.

Also while I am typing up this dazzling post I saw like 2 or 3 notifications that Jeremiah has posted lol so it could be Jeremiah has actually made an effort to scumhunt lol

well both kimmy and jeremiah fell back on their points so there goes the discussion on that which I was planning on having -_-

Emmy A. wrote:
You do bring up something about how Cherry, regardless of if it's one or both of them, only seem be be acknowledging the negatives about people as opposed to the positives. Cherry, do you have any townreads at the moment?

honestly, I don't right now. nobody's really done anything that would make me want to townread them. I'll take a look through the whole thread after this / later (depending on when im free) and get back to you on this.

Emmy A. wrote:
Just going to talk to myself a bit also. I don't think Halsey's mention of the circle was a townslip, and even if it was townslips like that are easy to fake (especially early on). Besides, Halsey calling it a reaction test kind of undermines the idea that it was a townslip, as it means he went through a process of looking at everything else and thus could be aware that Anima had received a townlean for bringing it up in her entrance.

Yeah, I was going to bring this up but it seems that you already talked about it. There's another thing he did which I think also looks pretty bad.

Halsey N. wrote:
Seeing every posting style is the same (in characteristics). This person seems to be the type that rushes into things and posts whatever is on his/her mind without thinking it throughly. I find it a little hard to make my reads since this user is pretty much everwhere (sorry about that Cherry) and kind of distorts my thought process (since I haven't read one post at a time like others who were in this game at the beginning in order to catch up and time constraints obviously causing this to happen). However this user isn't quick to lynch (seems this user only lynches when this user is sure of an SR). This user hasn't done anything inherently scummy unless the rushing into conclusions is something to count. That is contradicted however by not being hostile towards me
(although mine was a stand-alone post compared to other posts). Guess I was in the Anima category of stand-alone posts (not getting into conflict).
From now on, everybody should start asking questions about users. The strategy has been developed, so there is no need to go back to it and will be filler since if there is any questions about it, it can be reread.

I'm extremely confused. Is this referring to me, directed at me, or both?? I don't really know what you're trying to get at here and reading this post was a struggle lol

Kimmy S. wrote:

Halsey N. wrote:Ok so, uh I don't know about the strategy I suggested, it seems to be pointless like shepherd and jeremiah said, so i think this theme is better off treated like vanilla as far as scumhunting goes.
I'm also not good at fruit puns.
P.S: Anima, if you were a fruit, you'd be a fineapple

Why would you disagree with a strategy that gives Town 2 peaceful nights?

This is pretty big. I see zero reason for town!Halsey to discount the fruit passing strategy (did anyone else even say it was useless? I remember seeing this post and thinking it was strange but not going back to check whether or not what he said was true).

Jeremiah W. wrote:
Ask a person to create a randomized target list before they are lynched.  Alternatively, none of us use fruit tonight and everyone posts a randomized order (or two), and when a townie is killed we use his/her randomized list.

I like the latter part of the second one here. I think we just pass in playerlist order tonight, but also have everyone create a list, which can be used (snipping out all the dead people, ofc) should one of those people die and flip town.

Halsey N. wrote:
You see the tree instead of seeing the whole forest again.

This is brilliant, i'm taking it

Halsey N. wrote:"-scumread person based on pre game post and lynch"
(well Cherry already explained that and I buy it personally. Cherry lynched a person because of being scummy, not because of a hard pressed scumread from what I can tell)

close enough.

Infernando G. wrote:Hi frenssssssss

just to give u some updates because my partner is trash and keeps coming online and not posting
so with the fruit strategy, can mafia not give fruit and kill instead and then claim to not have gotten a fruit to frame someone? or would that be a good thing cause we know one of the two are lying
And not sure what everyone else thinks but maybe since we have limited fruit it would be a good thing to do whatever strategy on later days to preserve deaths since in the beginning it takes a day or two to get proper reads. I just think it would be more beneficial to prevent deaths when there are fewer players and we have a better idea of who to lynch.

Not sure what you mean, but if mafia doesn't give fruit the person who was supposed to have gotten the fruit would speak up and get that mafia lynched. I feel like keeping a greater number of people alive in the earlygame will be more useful, as we get more points of view on everything.

Infernando G. wrote:P.S. scummy emmy is scummy
bc she's doing that "I'll get to that later" "I'll do this soon thing". I know town also does that but mafia usually does it when they're overthinking whether saying something would be scummy. I do that when I'm scum.
It could just be her being lazy but from what I've ready her scummy vibes are what have mainly stuck with me.

I've done this a couple times as well, what are your thoughts on that?

Kimmy S. wrote:I'm going to get off now, but I don't want to cross a night without my vote on someone.

so I'm just going to quickly do a
Vote Anima
and see what happens tomorrow. Good Night.

Why? At both of those things.

Emmy A. wrote:
I believe we're all in agreement that we should use one of our fruit circles Night 1. If someone disagrees, they should say so. I want to get this set up sooner rather than later so we aren't scrambling at deadline. The person being lynched should be the one to decide the circle, in my opinion. If they for whatever reason don't give a circle, the playerlist is a good reference to use.

This could work as well. I still like jeremiah's idea of everyone giving a randomized list, though.

Emmy A. wrote:SO. The first post of Cherry's ISO that caught my attention was:

Cherry P. wrote:nah i lynched you because i did it at the start of the game and I don't like not following through

I'm having trouble putting into words why I find it notable. It kind of feels like just continuing the joke RVS vote on Jeremiah, but since the RVS vote wasn't random I then wonder, "Why didn't you just explain the vote here?"

my thought process was probably something like:
"i lynched this guy before lets make that legitimate now"
later:
"oh yeah this is why I put that lynch on you in the first place"
cut me some slack, it had been two days and psanon wasnt on the forefront of my mind so I just didnt remember the original reason

Jeremiah W. wrote:Ok, I just read through Cherry's posts again.

From what I can gather (correct me if I'm wrong), she lynched me off the bat as a sort of RVS, sort of reasoned lynch.  She used a pre-game post as the basis for her argument, but lynched me mostly to say: "hey, don't think like that during the actual game."  I didn't really get that and thought that she found I joke I made before the game was a legitimate reason to call me a scumread.

Her switching of the lynch to Halsey was because her reasons for lynching him were based of actions and decisions he made during the actual game.  She describes his first few posts as "shitposts" and said they didn't add any new ideas to the game.  I'm not sure if she meant to use her lynch to pressure him, but she saw his actions as scummy and her lynch got a better explanation out of him, so I guess the end justifies the means.  

Yeah, that seems to be pretty much right wrt you. I just saw halsey's actions as scummier than anything you'd done so I switched to him.

Caroline M. wrote:
Although I like the way Cherry dazzlingly handled the pressure from Emmy and Halsey (and a bit of me), I still think the following reason makes her seem lynch-happy. When Cherry first lynched Jeremiah the reasoning that his mindset is scummy wasnt in Cherry's mind since she had forgotten it at the time. Instead she only lynched to follow up while having the FoS on Anima. Yet she still lynched Jeremiah despite the fact she didnt actually have a reason and at the time had a better reason to lynch Anima. Her readiness to lynch despite not having a reason at the time shows a hint of lynch-happiness. The fact that she remembered her reasoning is irrelevant because analysis of a lynch-happy person involves the moment of the lynch.

eh i wouldnt say that was the case
i obviously had some reason to lynch jeremiah, and the weird thing anima did wasn't really worth a lynch.
still not seeing how me following through on something i found scummy in the first place makes me lynch-happy, unless you're saying i shouldn't have lynched him until I actually remembered why I cast the original lynch?
If that's the case ig its just a difference of opinion

Having read through everything (finally) I am under the impression that the first half of today has been spent with 2 town arguing

Emmy is actively looking through, reading thouroughly, and making well explained posts about her reads. I've probably exaggerated this but as far as day 1 townreads go, she fits it perfectly

I also believe Cherry to be town. It's harder to explain, but I feel like the way she is explaining what she has done wrong, AND actively providing scumreads and such, strikes me as town. I don't agree with the strange Fos, but aside from that I don't see why cherry is getting so much pressure

As far as other actives, Jeremiah and Kimmy are fairly null, but Halsey has had some weird posts that strike me as scum

He claimed In a post that he understood why Cherry lynched Jeremiah because he read back and saw that it was a RL with RVS reasoning, not an actually scumread. He also said he only scumread Cherry because of what Emmy said about it. The problem with this is that it makes me think Hasley hadn't read the game yet. The biggest issue with this is that he made it AFTER his read list. Any smart town would read the thread before making a 3 post readslist? Anything else about Hasley has already been said, and it further strengthens my read

unlynch Jeremiah

Halsey N. wrote:

Cherry P. wrote:

Halsey N. wrote:
Ok Cherry, so doing this off one post is called tunneling and it's bad. From one post, you cannot assume the entire nature of a person and just cast a lynch from this. People basically pry and pick at straws when they are tunneling and that is what you are doing

I think you're forgetting that this was literally the start of the game and there wasn't much of anything to go off on. I saw something scummy and i jumped on it. There's a difference between going in on someone when there's a large amount of evidence to work off of and placing a lynch on the start of the game based on something you saw.

Halsey N. wrote:
Now Cherry, lets talk about you. If this was a one person game, I would have already labeled you as scum. The reason for this is because of that above post. First of all, you tunnel Jeremiah so hard, then you dismiss him. Not only that, but one reason for lynching him (what you posted first) is completely different from the other. Either one Cherry is aggressive and the other one is not or you as one Cherry just backed out.

a) how did you extend 1/2 posts into a tunnel?? b) how did I dismiss him?

Halsey N. wrote:
Now this is the icing of the cake. This basically says you gave up on somebody that is scummy because somebody scummier (me) appeared? I mean wut?  I don't see how that makes sense. Why would you dismiss somebody that appeared scummy to you right away. It just looks like you are looking for an excuse to lynch one person. If you really thought that person was scummy, you would stick to it. I mean, that wasn't even a true tunnel if you dismissed him that fast.. Not only this, but you can tell you basically run away when pressured just by looking at that quote above.

I wish i had your reach, i'd never need to get out of my chair
I saw something scummy, lynched jeremiah for it. I saw something more scummy, and lynched you for it. Where have I ever said that I gave up on Jeremiah/townread him/have my opinion on him changed due to me finding you scummier? I don't get how you're getting from me finding you scummier to me dropping the point I brought up about him.
I've already said that aside from that one point I don't really have anything else on Jeremiah, and filler + ignoring the entire game is definitely worse than being self-aware. You're right on it not being a true tunnel, though... because i was never tunneling him.
I don't see how i'm "running away" after being pressured either, please elaborate.

Halsey N. wrote:
Now for my brilliant plan (might have overthought it though). I was seeing some of the game chat and saw how alot of reactions were based from the RVS. So I decided to filler and repost the same info and see if they brought different reactions from the accounts. Since this was something really unexpected, I was trying to see if some people broke character (mainly get reads from them). I also thought about the two person mechanic and even though two people might act differently, if the goal is the same as the other person, they will try to pressure on it. For example, let's say the other person in my account thought my reads were wrong, they might say oops and say something different or add on to the reads. Mafia however if their goal is to only lynch a person, will most likely keep their goal the same and stay on the same target as the other player in that account. You can say I threw in a random variable to cause some stimuli. I waited 10 hours and tried to see if anything changed and how players reacted to my post. I liked what I saw from players like Emmi since they didnt try to outright lynch me and see the positive of that. I did not like what I saw from players like Cherry which I stated above.

correct me if i'm wrong, but it was another reaction test? seems fine.
A bit confused on how you say that mafia would keep their goal the same and stay on the same target while simultaneously saying that you don't like my reaction... where I didn't stay on the same target??

My apologies. You see, I thought you had been fickle over a person who you thought was scum. I reread and saw that you lynched him because of a scumtell and to get a reaction. Seeing how people kept reacting to this, I thought that you thought of him as SCUM. It didn't occur to me that you lynched him just because of a scumtell (or negative town behavior). Everybody made a big deal of it so that warped my consensus. Also the fact that I got confused because of various posts by players questioning you for this when you yourself only made very few posts about Jeremiah (you were mostly responding back)

Here is the post I was referring to.

lynch Hasley

For now

If he explains himself, then I would be more than happy to unlynch, but I see no better lynch rn aside from maybe Infernando

Is it ok if I don't just quote, I've had a long day and I'm sure you guys can discern to who I am referring to unless you guys have bad memory (will still put who said them though in underline)....(also reading the game as as I am making this post to save time, so expect my mind to be in one place or another during this message)

The read list originally pinged me, but upon rereading, it appears that I may have been misguided. However, would still like to request of you as to the reasons why certain reads felt like it really was final. I can see how Cherry and Emmy could be discussed upon though.


I already answered this. Reads that were not final were those that were active and could respond back. Those that were in final form were because at that point, I only had my reads based off what very few those accounts had said and thus, couldn't expand on those accounts like I did to the active people. I did try to point out Caroline's posts and break them down specifically though even though at that point, that user only had 8 posts. Well now that Caroline and Clara are here, I can ask them questions personally.

Kimmy S.: I had not explicitly FOSed them for their post style [Caroline], they were still a townread and I even mentioned that "Manner Of Speech" thing was completely personal, i.e unrelated to my opinion of them in the game.


I would still like to hear the reason for the FOS anyways.

Kimmy S.: So would you say that Jeremiah's post style, as noted by you, would be indicative of Scum or Town? By "post style", I refer to the "nuance" you referred to of Jeremiah reposting things as a build-up to his actual post. Why call this a "nuance" of his post style rather than just calling it filler?

I could be wrong. It's the fact that he does it every time and did it went his post became more direct. His question posts are indeed filler though. Also some of his statements like metagame talk is indeed filler (Omgus, Fos) as in some of his posts, he does not connect those strategies to users but just talks about them.

Jeremiah W.: In these anon games, I've noticed that most day 1 scumreads are based on weak logic and generally the lynch outcome is based more on luck (was it a townie that slipped d1 or a scum?) as opposed to later days when more information is available and people have had ample time to get solid reads on each other. I usually don't like to go after people unless I'm fairly sure that they are mafia, and most of the reads I get day 1 are rolls of the dice.

I mean, you can never really be 100 percent certain somebody is scum day 1 and it is a necessity to lynch for two reasons: we hopefully get mafia since mafia won't commit suicide, we control the killcount plus kill on the basis of town, not to the advantage of mafia. Also, mafia has always been alot of Yomi luck, so I don't really see that point as a strong one (especially in vanilla) until one mafia is finally down and yet, game is still not sealed (although this might be different with the fruit, but I'm sure you get the point). Also, nothing is completely the roll of the dice here, so all it does is cement that you are not getting into conflict because everything is a complete chance? Not a good excuse.

Jeremiah W.: covered most of what the first part is asking in my last post. I haven't gone into detail on other players' posts and plan to reassess my lynch after I do, and for now the lynch on Cherry isn't doing any harm.

If by harm, you mean that plurality was on her, thats a terrible fallacy. At the point everybody was questioning you (way before you responded), she was in danger of plurality.

Jeremiah W.:
Her switching of the lynch to Halsey was because her reasons for lynching him were based of actions and decisions he made during the actual game. She describes his first few posts as "shitposts" and said they didn't add any new ideas to the game. I'm not sure if she meant to use her lynch to pressure him, but she saw his actions as scummy and her lynch got a better explanation out of him, so I guess the end justifies the means.

Pretty sure you used the reverse argument to keep the lynch on her when you backed up my "bait" (as you called it). Also you wanted her to explain to you yet she hasn't, so I feel that's a break of character. Somebody who always wants explanation makes a choice that would be premature to somebody like you? Let's just say I'm not liking you as much anymore compared to before.

Caroline M.: However you then say that you dont like what you saw from Cherry yet I dont see how you could possibly tell if 2 users have been posting under Cherry's account?

In order to see if two users had been posting under the same account, I would look at different personality traits and post style like I said I would. There seems to be an aggressive Cherry and a non aggressive Cherry. Also one seems to have a sense of humor and the other one doesn't. The thing I'm not liking at the moment is the dismissal of Jeremiah which at this point has been proved by this Cherry and the lynch stay on me. So what is the town reason for this? By mafia behaviors, I meant the fact that they will try to lynch a person, not try to aim for a specific person.

Cherry P.: well both kimmy and jeremiah fell back on their points so there goes the discussion on that which I was planning on having -_-


Like how is that a reason for discussion to end?

also

Cherry P.: I'm extremely confused. Is this referring to me, directed at me, or both?? I don't really know what you're trying to get at here and reading this post was a struggle lol


I clearly meant that was for Emmy. That only addresses you and for why I thought you were scummy based of your lynch and actions. Until I saw that you lynch because of scummy reasons, not because you thought that person was scum. Although you said that reason was "close enough", so I want you to go into full detail about it. (and obviously responses to what I said about you in responding to Caroline's post).

Cherry P.: This is pretty big. I see zero reason for town!Halsey to discount the fruit passing strategy (did anyone else even say it was useless? I remember seeing this post and thinking it was strange but not going back to check whether or not what he said was true).


Ugh this, let's just say if Emmy can make this type of post...

Emmy A.: So I actually had to ask AJ how much I was allowed to explain things regarding this to keep from saying something like, "I'm the Emmy who did this thing." It turns out that we have rather similar posting styles, and I personally do find myself posting stream-of-conciousness posts sometimes. Us being "everywhere" is due to differing opinions, and now that I have confirmation that I can indicate when I'm in full disagreement with myself I'll aim to be clearer about that. Our(?) read on you is an example of the differing opinions-one of us had you in the slight town pile and the other didn't agree with that based on the posts you had at the time.


So can I to the same degree. Let's say "WE" became dumb for a second if anybody can figure out what I meant about that since I can't really delve into it because of rules.

Cherry P.: "i lynched this guy before lets make that legitimate now"


Wow, this is terrible. I mean your quote about remembering I'm ok with. This however seems like you were thinking of an excuse to cement the lynch on Jeremiah.

Clara H.: He claimed In a post that he understood why Cherry lynched Jeremiah because he read back and saw that it was a RL with RVS reasoning, not an actually scumread. He also said he only scumread Cherry because of what Emmy said about it.

I didn't really claim I understood, I feel like I understood after. Also, I already stated why I thought all of this. I read the game fast in order to catch up with you guys and might have mixed up some posts with others. I did correct what I stated however before anybody even brought that up, so I don't see how I would be scummy about that.

You however are a little weird and disjointed and I want to get right into that.

You see, I want you to explain some stuff your account said:

Clara H.: I also believe Cherry to be town. It's harder to explain, but I feel like the way she is explaining what she has done wrong, AND actively providing scumreads and such, strikes me as town. I don't agree with the strange Fos, but aside from that I don't see why cherry is getting so much pressure


Guess I will have to quote some stuff also.

Clara H. wrote:First of all: Stop scumhunting on pregame shit, nothing you have brought up is vaulabke in the slightest

Second of all: I'm 100% Down for this strategy. So we don't confuse people, we will go Down the PL, in the order Hasley stated

1 thing I'd like to say is that if we decide to lynch today the person behind the guy who gets lynched should target the next person, but that's just common sense

Clara H. wrote:As far as Cherry goes, I don't think scum would be daring enough to say they have daytalk, especially when neither side do. And Cherry, I would love to see a reason for it as it is past RVS stage

Here we go. You state that Cherry had explained herself what she had done wrong plus the providing of scumreads. However, is that all because I feel the post you made about that daring enough to have a daytalk would be one of your big reasons as well (enough to have a reason of its own). I'm feeling that your account is a disjointed pair of hydras and I would like to know why both of you are so intent on the towniness of Cherry since because of that previous quote, this post feels a little forced to me. Also the fact that you do not agree with the strange FOS even though it's one of the big factors of controversy make me question why you don't have Cherry on neutral instead. Also by this post, do you think that everything that Cherry said she did wrong was wrong in your own eyes as well because it seems like it.

Also, what do you find null about Jeremiah? I do not question Kimmy because I'm going to be attacking on the style of posting. I feel my posts and Cherry's on the regard of explaining what we did wrong are on the same level yet you don't penalize Cherry for that but penalize me instead. Now to Jeremiah's case. It is not debatable that me and Jeremiah both have posting styles and posts themselves that can be regarded via meta-game in a general consensus as scummy so I repeat, why are you null on Jeremiah. You say my posts are weird yet you posted only one of my posts (are you talking about the 4post one, the not fruit one?, maybe some odd posts in perspective of others like for example, Kimmy's post about my reads?). Where are the others (if there are others to begin with because I'm sure you would also see Jeremiah as scummy if those posts are counted in)?

Also, you question me about not reading the game yet you do not address your previous points nor my points that addressed you and that I wanted answers for. Like, what did you mean by "pre-game shit" (that statement is too general and can mean so many things). I would like that you answer that since that has some strong connections with the strategies of a lot of active users.

Will also talk about Caroline (break up some of the posts and ask some questions) and Infernando later. Had a long day and I just want to relax for a while.

Hey guys. I'm going to no-life and reread the whole of this thread tomorrow, be on the lookout
I still don't know what the deadline is though...like seriously why does everyone just ignore me

By the way, Hasley is definitely town from what I can see.
I don't think my other guy is on him though right now so that's good.
I'll elaborate later.

Questions for some of my fellow players:
Shepard, Anima, Dr. Proctor, and Infernando: What are your thoughts on the other players in the game? Do you have anything to add to our discussions about Halsey's posts/strategy, or the interactions between him and Kimmy/Cherry/myself, or any of our non-fruit related discussions?

Seriously. 4 of the accounts in this game, or 8 players total, have not contributed one post to this game besides fruit passing discussion (most of which was redundant) and RVS posts.

I give slight credit to Infernando for making one semi-scumhunting post, but I don't see the logic in his lynch of Emmy. He calls her out for going "I'll explain x later" a lot, and while that may be scummy, she has been actively discussing everything that has gone on in this game, and has provided a lot of sound reasoning for her arguments and thoughts. Infernando, on the other hand, has two posts with content, with one of them bringing up a topic that had already been discussed previously.

Halsey: Have your reads of the players in this game changed any since you posted your original readlist? A lot of discussion has occurred since the original post and I'm curious to see if your thoughts on anyone have changed.

Caroline: This is actually more of a response to your last post than it is a question for you. You called me out for letting others do all the work in scumhunting, and then go after the person once someone else has forced them to lynch. What I meant by going after someone is that I generally hold off using my lynch until I feel that I'm absolutely sure that I want them lynched on that day. That doesn't mean that I won't pressure someone or ask them to clarify/explain something that they said/did that I didn't understand. On day 1, I think people are still trying to get accustomed to the game and tend to say or do things that can be interpreted as a scumslip. When people don't have much to go off of, they latch to these small bits of info and pressure them on it, and sometimes the player will respond poorly or simply go inactive and not respond at all, and then we have a dead townie day 1. When I referred to the day 1 lynch as a roll of that dice, that's what I meant by it.

Emmy: What are your thoughts on Clara's read that Halsey only scumread Cherry because of the way you pressured her? I think she interpreted the way he said that seeing your posts at a higher frequency than Cherry's influenced his bias against her as him simply following your reasoning outright.

Halsey, from what I can gather from the above post, you have some sort of issue with me quoting someone else's post at the top of a lot of my own. I just do that when I'm responding to a post that wasn't one or two posts above my own, so that people don't have to read back to find the post I'm responding to. I don't see why this is an issue, and if I'm missing the point completely and my "nuance" is actually something else then please correct me because I'm actually fairly confused by this.

I'd like to explain my not unlynching and then my unlynching of Cherry here since Halsey just questioned it in one of his recent posts.

I originally didn't want to unlynch Cherry when I was analyzing the progression of her scumreads because none of it made sense to me.  The reasons she had for lynching myself as well as Halsey were fairly flimsy from my POV.  

It was mostly a misunderstanding from my side.  I had thought that I was a legitimate scumread in her eyes due to a post that I made in pre-game, when in reality it was just an RVS lynch to send a message that she didn't want to see that mindset in a townie.

The scummy read I had earlier on Cherry was supplemented by the "dazzling plan" that Halsey had because from what I had remembered reading her reasons for lynching him were spotty. I thought her lynch on Halsey was simply due to him restating the fruit passing idea, and I had forgotten about his 3 "shitposts" that he had made beforehand and hadn't considered lynching him for those reasons.  This made logical sense if she was meaning to use her lynch as pressure as opposed to a means to eliminate him from the game, which was my original thought process.  Since I now understood the logic in her lynch against Halsey, it no longer seemed like an attempt to take out an easy target from a mafia perspective, and as such the concept of her taking the bait didn't add up, so I unlynched her.

Halsey N. wrote:
Also, mafia has always been alot of Yomi luck, so I don't really see that point as a strong one (especially in vanilla) until one mafia is finally down and yet, game is still not sealed (although this might be different with the fruit, but I'm sure you get the point).

What is yomi luck?

Halsey N. wrote:
In order to see if two users had been posting under the same account, I would look at different personality traits and post style like I said I would. There seems to be an aggressive Cherry and a non aggressive Cherry. Also one seems to have a sense of humor and the other one doesn't. The thing I'm not liking at the moment is the dismissal of Jeremiah which at this point has been proved by this Cherry and the lynch stay on me. So what is the town reason for this?  By mafia behaviors, I meant the fact that they will try to lynch a person, not try to aim for a specific person.

I still don't see where I dismissed jeremiah, remember when I asked for that? If you did mention it and I missed it, sorry, but please point me to where I can find your answer.

Halsey N. wrote:
Cherry P.: well both kimmy and jeremiah fell back on their points so there goes the discussion on that which I was planning on having -_-


Like how is that a reason for discussion to end?

The way I see it, there's zero benefit to trying to convince someone to maintain the same opinion that they already have.

Halsey N. wrote:
I clearly meant that was for Emmy. That only addresses you and for why I thought you were scummy based of your lynch and actions. Until I saw that you lynch because of scummy reasons, not because you thought that person was scum. Although you said that reason was "close enough", so I want you to go into full detail about it. (and obviously responses to what I said about you in responding to Caroline's post).

hey man, it wasn't clear to me. Then again, I can't understand what you say a lot of the time so that might just be my fault. Which one do you want me to go into detail on? Jeremiah or you?

Halsey N. wrote:
Cherry P.: "i lynched this guy before lets make that legitimate now"


Wow, this is terrible. I mean your quote about remembering I'm ok with. This however seems like you were thinking of an excuse to cement the lynch on Jeremiah.

i mean i'm pretty sure this is literally the reason I lynched jeremiah again, i'm not too sure what your issue with it is

I'm actually liking halsey's defense/thought processes (for the most part) but i'm not sure that i'd tr him for them.

I think Clara's been pretty contradictory wrt her reads on me, but that could potentially be the hydra issue. I'll delve into that more if I see that being a larger issue down the road.

Looking through the rest of the PL, i think the only person i'd remotely townlean is emmy. Everyone else is null or a scumlean in my eyes due to inactivity or me simply not being able to glean much of use wrt reads from their posts.
I feel like emmy's posts have town intent behind them but from the arguments I had with her I didn't like her mindset/reasoning, which is significantly hampering my ability to read her from a neutral standpoint. That being said, I think she's posted solidly otherwise and hasnt done much else that would give me reason to believe she's not town.

Votecount 1.2
******************************
Halsey N.(2)- Cherry P., Clara H.
Jeremiah W.(1)- Emmy A.
Dr. Proctor(1)- Shepherd D.
Emmy A.(1)- Infernando G.
Anima V.(1)- Kimmy S.
Cherry P.(0)-
Caroline M.(0)-
Clara H.(0)-
Shepherd D.(0)-
Infernando G.(0)-
Kimmy S.(0)-
Not Voting(5)- Halsey N., Anima V., Caroline V., Dr. Proctor, Jeremiah W.
******************************
There are 11 alive so it takes 6 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Monday the 4th at 9pm EST.

If the deadline was now, Halsey N. would be lynched.

Sorry, I haven't been here for a while.

Can people give their main 3 srs like (player)>(player)>(player)
and same thing with trs based on what they have seen of the player so far (rvs/reactions/interactions) to sort things out.

Sorry, I'm actually really tired to post what I had in mind and now it seems there is even more posts directed towards me. I'll respond the most early I can tomorrow and make my lynch from what I have gathered (that gives enough time for discussion before Monday).

Also, read the game and make your owns posts to be honest. What you just did Anima would be a scum play because by looking at SRS, you are forming your opinion based on them and taking the safe way out (especially during day 1).

By safe way, I mean forming a read around who has most leverage in being scum and town which is formed from an average of SRS.

In a nutshell, it's too planned out and perfect.

Also, yomi luck is google searchable and I suggest you all search it up imo.

Halsey N. wrote:
Also, read the game and make your owns posts to be honest. What you just did Anima would be a scum play because by looking at SRS, you are forming your opinion based on them and taking the safe way out (especially during day 1).

By safe way, I mean forming a read around who has most leverage in being scum and town which is formed from an average of SRS.

agree completely with halsey here. Not a fan of what Anima just did, it seems to me like an easy cop-out to reading the thread and a way to just piggyback off of others' reads.

Halsey N. wrote:Also, yomi luck is google searchable and I suggest you all search it up imo.

"Yomi is the ability to know or to have a high probability of guessing correctly what the enemy player will do next, before anything can actually physically be known."
psanon doesnt let me post the source but w/e

Jeremiah mentioned Day 1 often being based on "weak logic" and "luck" and cited that for his early reservation. If you believe this to be the case, why not pressure people to develop your reads and make them stronger? If everyone took the "well today's luck-based anyway" approach, we'd get nowhere. As far as your comments on avoiding conflict goes, what about Emmy v Cherry and Halsey v Kimmy? Additionally, given that the debates with Cherry related to you/her scumread on you, did you not feel compelled to respond?

Caroline mentioned Shepherd having come on a few times after his post about the fruit circle, which I didn't notice but turns out to be the case. I don't believe I was the one to ask about his RVS unlynch (I recall asking a question once he responded to someone else's), but I just want to add my voice to the concern regarding Shepherd not following up.

I seem to have misinterpreted Halsey's plan. If it is in fact what Caroline detailed, I think the effort would be less successful at finding scum. The reason being that even if there are two posters online at a given moment, differences in playstyle can lead to differences in opinion regardless of alignment. Consider, for example, the scenario I described earlier where one member of a scum hydra tries to cover for a scummy move made by the other. I wouldn't go as far as to call it made up though, as I don't see what incentive there is for Halsey to, as either alignment, backtrack and call it planned. He uses it to develop his read on Cherry instead of instantly labeling her as scum for "falling for the bait," which would be the natural move for scum to make if they were covering for a hydra partner. ("It was bait! And you fell for it! So you are scum and your lynch on me is also invalid!")

@Halsey, I interpreted Cherry's "let's make that legitimate now" bit to be referring to, "I joke-lynched you in pregame, let's make that an actual lynch within the game during RVS."

I wasn't calling Halsey's townslip-that-was-not-a-townslip bad, but I didn't find that on its own enough to place him in the town pile. That said, I'm not understanding the push to lynch Halsey, who has since his appearance been one of the main drivers of discussion and has been actively engaging with his scumreads in a way that shows he's open to changing his opinions on them. I still think Jeremiah is a better lynch, as his return is less than stellar, saying he doesn't want to get into conflict because Day 1 is decided by luck normally and not really giving too many opinions on things (in particular his unlynch of Cherry and opinion shift on her doesn't leave him with much of an opinion on anyone).

I'm interested in why Clara's null on Jeremiah and Kimmy, as they both have a fair amount of content and you didn't really elaborate. Kimmy I can understand since most of what he has right now is back-and-forth with Halsey, but Jeremiah not so much.

Pre-Edit: Whoa, Jeremiah did stuff. I'm appreciating the effort and it's a point in his favor, though not to the point where I'm comfortable unlynching him (the questions he asks are rather superficial and I'm looking forward to how he proceeds with the responses to them). I'm in disagreement with Clara's thoughts on Halsey as I don't see where she's getting the idea that he scumread Cherry based on what I said about her. Looking at where Halsey starts scumreading/pressuring Cherry I don't see anything that would imply this to her, so I'd like her comments on how she came to this conclusion. I don't really see how bias based on postcount correlates to 100% sheeping someone else's reasoning. If anything it's a modified version of appeal to authority, which is bad to do but not super prevalent in Halsey's pressuring.

I'm agreeing with Halsey that Anima should form her own scumreads/townreads. The only thing I'd change is "would be a scum play" to "could be a scum play," as "would be" implies that there's a reason you think it's definitively not a scum play. So...is there a reason you think it's not a scum play?

Also, is Yomi Luck just wifom?

Caroline M. wrote:I am absolutely dazzled that Kimmy doesnt like my manner of speech! But oh well, I guess I cant please everyone...

Sorry, you're too happy.
Especially that "dazzled", based off the root word "dazzle", implies a positive kind of surprise, which I do not prefer over neutral terms. Don't take it personally though, It's just my own preferences and I don't have any more bias to you because of this


Now that I got the obligatory filler out of the way, going to actually read and respond.

Emmy A. wrote:<snip>

I'm a bit wary of Jeremiah's return. I understand his POV on Cherry, but since Cherry was also his RVS lynch and what little opinion he expressed at that point was directed at her, I'm not sure if this is an extension of a tunnel or a legitimate read. It doesn't help that his paragraph on Halsey is him summing up what Halsey did and then just adding "it's not all that scummy."

<<snip>

So is he more scum or less scum for it?

Emmy A. wrote:
<snip>

I believe I've given my thoughts on the other posts so far. Overall I'm finding this slot as a whole a shaky one but not one I'd support a lynch on at the moment.

Snipped out everything above for convenience of reading, the entirety of your post consisted of you picking apart Cherry's ISO, ending with a "I'd support a lynch on at the moment." If so, why is your vote not on them (If it is I'm sorry for misreading vote count). Apart from that though, I like their manner of attacking Cherry, where you provide clear evidence.

Jeremiah W. wrote:

Kimmy S. wrote:So you scumread Cherry more than anyone else at this point of the game? If so why? I myself don't really see anything scumread worthy in their posts, and I don't see where you find the confusion from.

On a similar note, what is your opinion on Cherry responding to Halsey's supposed bait like that? Do you think they're more town or scum for it?

To Jeremiah, what is your opinion on the other players in the game currently?

I covered most of what the first part is asking in my last post.  I haven't gone into detail on other players' posts and plan to reassess my lynch after I do, and for now the lynch on Cherry isn't doing any harm.

I discussed this briefly, but I'm not sure what her falling for Halsey's "bait" would prove.  On one hand, it could be viewed as a mafia member seeing an easy target and jumping at the opportunity.  However, it could also be a pressure lynch from a townie that noticed a post that was out of place since what it brought up had already been discussed.  Although this lynch in addition to the lynch made on me doesn't make sense to me based on her stated reasons for doing so, I can understand that if both lynches were made the pressure the lynch target, then they would make logical sense, and both lynches essentially accomplished that.  My issue has been that I'm not sure that her motive for lynching was to pressure Halsey or myself, but that she sincerely scumreads me for a post made in jest before the game started.

So what IS your opinion on Cherry? You've gone all on describing their actions, potential motives, etc. but if you're not going to provide your own insight, there's really no point to bringing it up is there? We can all read on our own but your insight to the matter is what is important, since we can't read your mind like we can read the game.

Jeremiah W. wrote:Ok, I just read through Cherry's posts again.

From what I can gather (correct me if I'm wrong), she lynched me off the bat as a sort of RVS, sort of reasoned lynch.  She used a pre-game post as the basis for her argument, but lynched me mostly to say: "hey, don't think like that during the actual game."  I didn't really get that and thought that she found I joke I made before the game was a legitimate reason to call me a scumread.

Her switching of the lynch to Halsey was because her reasons for lynching him were based of actions and decisions he made during the actual game.  She describes his first few posts as "shitposts" and said they didn't add any new ideas to the game.  I'm not sure if she meant to use her lynch to pressure him, but she saw his actions as scummy and her lynch got a better explanation out of him, so I guess the end justifies the means.  

After I read through the sea of megaquotes again, I'll point out anything I find scummy. For now, I'll

unlynch Cherry.

Related to the issue question above, what's your own insight to the matter? You agree with their methods but how about the person? Does the unvote mean you now townread them? Or are you just tentatively holding back? You need to be a bit more vocal with your own opinions, bad opinions that get shot down is still better than own opinion.

Cherry P. wrote:
<snip>

Jeremiah W. wrote:
Ask a person to create a randomized target list before they are lynched.  Alternatively, none of us use fruit tonight and everyone posts a randomized order (or two), and when a townie is killed we use his/her randomized list.

I like the latter part of the second one here. I think we just pass in playerlist order tonight, but also have everyone create a list, which can be used (snipping out all the dead people, ofc) should one of those people die and flip town.

<snip>

Kimmy S. wrote:I'm going to get off now, but I don't want to cross a night without my vote on someone.

so I'm just going to quickly do a
Vote Anima
and see what happens tomorrow. Good Night.

Why? At both of those things.

<snip>

Re Quote 1: What if scum flips? Do we just use the Player List?

Re Quote 2: As for why I wanted my vote to be on something, my vote is a valuable tool and having it on no one irks me since it feels like it's going to waste. Furthermore, having my vote on someone and leaving it there puts up the heat on the voted, which could potentially trigger some form of reaction out of them, since they know they'll have a vote on them for the next few hours that in't moving.

I chose Anima to vote since they were pretty much the biggest black box in the game, and I'd want to have everyone have some form of content in the game to base whatever off, and letting them lurk unnoticed amidst the Halsey/Cherry/Jeremiah shit is not ideal in my opinion.

Clara H. wrote:If he explains himself, then I would be more than happy to unlynch, but I see no better lynch rn aside from maybe Infernando

If you think Infernando is better why not vote them?

Halsey N. wrote:
<snip>

Kimmy S.: I had not explicitly FOSed them for their post style [Caroline], they were still a townread and I even mentioned that "Manner Of Speech" thing was completely personal, i.e unrelated to my opinion of them in the game.


I would still like to hear the reason for the FOS anyways.

"they were still a townread"

Kimmy S.: So would you say that Jeremiah's post style, as noted by you, would be indicative of Scum or Town? By "post style", I refer to the "nuance" you referred to of Jeremiah reposting things as a build-up to his actual post. Why call this a "nuance" of his post style rather than just calling it filler?

I could be wrong. It's the fact that he does it every time and did it went his post became more direct. His question posts are indeed filler though. Also some of his statements like metagame talk is indeed filler (Omgus, Fos) as in some of his posts, he does not connect those strategies to users but just talks about them.

So is it scum indicative or not?

Jeremiah W.:  In these anon games, I've noticed that most day 1 scumreads are based on weak logic and generally the lynch outcome is based more on luck (was it a townie that slipped d1 or a scum?) as opposed to later days when more information is available and people have had ample time to get solid reads on each other. I usually don't like to go after people unless I'm fairly sure that they are mafia, and most of the reads I get day 1 are rolls of the dice.

I mean, you can never really be 100 percent certain somebody is scum day 1 and it is a necessity to lynch for two reasons: we hopefully get mafia since mafia won't commit suicide, we control the killcount plus kill on the basis of town, not to the advantage of mafia. Also, mafia has always been alot of Yomi luck, so I don't really see that point as a strong one (especially in vanilla) until one mafia is finally down and yet, game is still not sealed (although this might be different with the fruit, but I'm sure you get the point). Also, nothing is completely the roll of the dice here, so all it does is cement that you are not getting into conflict because everything is a complete chance? Not a good excuse.

Ah, Jeremiah's classic "they could be town" argument, phrased in a different way. I'm lazy to grab the original quote but to Jeremiah: Basically what Halsey said, the whole point of day 1 is not to lynch with certainty, but to gain the certainty needed to lynch, and voting people for pressure and reactions are a good way to do that. To Halsey: How different do you think the fruit will make it?

<snip>

Cherry P.: well both kimmy and jeremiah fell back on their points so there goes the discussion on that which I was planning on having -_-


Like how is that a reason for discussion to end?

Normally I'd snip out the bits that don't concern me or that I don't have an alternate view on, but I think this is important enough for me to leave here to show that I agree.

<snip>

Comments in Italics.

Anima V. wrote:Sorry, I haven't been here for a while.

Can people give their main 3 srs like (player)>(player)>(player)
and same thing with trs based on what they have seen of the player so far (rvs/reactions/interactions) to sort things out.

SCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUM

Not elaborating further since 3 people have already hopped all over your case, but another point I'd like to make is if that you wanted this to happen, why do all of us have to comply but you're not doing it yourself? If you're going to poison all of us, "all" includes you too, and you should be drinking your own poison along with your wine.





Vote stays on Anima for now, I'm pretty confident we have a scum here in them. I think Halsey can just be easily mistaken Town here rn, only real big thing that pings me is that hydra shit and his partner dismissing the fruit strategy. Emmy feels slight town here, you can view it as a null read until more stuff have been posted.

Jeremiah and Infernando are the next candidates for scum here tbh, alhtough Jeremiah is more to null. Infernando going "my partner is shit for coming online and doing nothing" but doing nothing worth reading himself pings me hard here, and will probably be my next candidate for scum if Anima dies or convinces me otherwise.