Game 31: Separated Scum

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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Kodama N. on Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:22 am

Wilkinson, I hope you're on to post something and not just to lurk/read things. I will stay on longer to see what you post/whatever questions you have for me.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Kodama N. on Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:27 am

Aaaand yet again, no post from Wilkinson. *sigh* Unlynch Roderick, Lynch Wilkinson. A pressure lynch to post something. At least Roderick is posting useful things (sometimes, at least).
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Kodama N. on Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:31 am

^ that pressure lynch will or will not change depending if Wilkinson posts anything/Roderick's defense.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Wilkinson A. on Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:08 am

Why would you be expecting me to question you specifically? I've been listing what stands out to me and you can't really blame me for not standing out.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Wilkinson A. on Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:12 am

nextly, there was a 5 minute window you gave me sometime AFTER I made my post, when I got off.

Are you trying to try to take advantage of me being scummy to BS a push on me? What does Roderick have to do with my lynch? I don't believe that is the best that people in the game have to lynch me for and I don't think you are being entirely genuine there
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:53 am

I currently only have time to respond to Kodama's post and have not seen page 14.


I should have been cleared with my Rhonda vote. To sum up the problems with her: her trend of logging in and doing nothing, that she only posted when pressured into doing so, and many of these posts were stating the obvious or pointing things out but coming to no conclusion. I also didn’t like her “town mediator” behavior as it’s a very common way for scum to appear helpful while not stepping on anyone’s toes. Rhonda’s read on Mona came after, but it supported the theory I had that she was postponing her reads until she had something she could defend a given person (in this case Mona) with. (I gave my analysis of that read shortly after it was posted; much of what’s mentioned is NAI and the only other thing she mentions relates to Mona’s own readlist, which is what I think Rhonda was waiting on). Rhonda coming on to defend herself was one of the things I wanted most, and the initial vote on her was intended to pressure her into doing so, while Wilkinson’s vote was what prompted me to unlynch and become less certain.

I interpreted Wilkinson #1’s comment on Day One readlists to be in response to my asking him for his. With the two possiblilities Kodama brings up I think B would actually be scummier, as well as being more likely due to the timing (more due to the fact that he seemed to include it as an afterthought as opposed to part of his “analysis” of the game).

Wilkinson wasn’t online at EoD3 if I remember correctly, so I’m just having trouble what benefit there would have been regarding pressuring him then specifically.

I almost don’t want to talk about the Anita situation. That was, to say the least, not a standard game. I do see scum!Roderick potentially starting his wifom now, though.

Hue, join me in the top 20 posters. Soon. I think after this I’m 2 posts away from Hanzou.

Readlist incoming when I get back.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:07 pm

I'm back.


Prior to the readlist, let me give my thoughts on what just happened there with Kodama and Wilkinson.

Wilkinson A. wrote:Why would you be expecting me to question you specifically? I've been listing what stands out to me and you can't really blame me for not standing out.
You really haven’t been listing what stands out. Your “readlist” Day Three is primarily comments on peoples’ activity as opposed to his content. The idea I got from Kodama’s post was that as you were both online, he was asking if you specifically had any questions for him.

Wilkinson A. wrote:nextly, there was a 5 minute window you gave me sometime AFTER I made my post, when I got off.

Are you trying to try to take advantage of me being scummy to BS a push on me? What does Roderick have to do with my lynch? I don't believe that is the best that people in the game have to lynch me for and I don't think you are being entirely genuine there
Yet you don’t do anything with that five minute window, didn’t give any indication you were in fact forming reads, and it took Kodama lynching you to post something. This sentence: “Are you trying to try to take advantage of me being scummy to BS a push on me?” makes no sense to me, you admit to being scummy then accuse Kodama of using that to "bs" a push on you. If you don’t think you’re the best lynch, show us why as opposed to deciding someone’s not “genuine” because they lynched you.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:15 pm

Honestly, I’d pressure lynch Wilkinson myself, given that he didn’t show his progress on his reads, but that would put him at L-1, which is currently unnecessary.

Readlist below.

Roderick-I’ve discussed this throughout today. To summarize it, he bases his reads on theories or single posts taken out of context, making this a textbook example of cherrypicking. He’s tunneling Wilkinson, tunneling me based on my “defending” Wilkinson, and neither of his townreads have real reasoning behind them. He’s remained “consistent” in his reads, but in this case it’s an example of tunneling given his reading the inactive Wilkinson #2 as scum and he gives no actual reasoning for his reads on Kodama and Mona. His read on me has apparently flipped entirely with no real justification, and I’ve mentioned above thinking I was a scum!Roderick’s Night 3 inspect. I also see elements of self-consciousness in his comment that he expected to be the Vigilante shot last night and don’t like that he felt the need to refer to a “Town” Vigilante in particular. Currently my strongest scumread

Wilkinson-I’ve discussed my thoughts on Wilkinson #1, and Wilkinson #2 was…um, yeah. The third one didn’t show the progress I asked of him today and seems to get defensive over small points nobody else really cares about (such as his use of the word “wagon”). I interpret this as a scummy self-consciousness. Additionally, his reaction to Kodama’s vote is an abnormally aggressive reaction to something explicitly stated to be a pressure vote. The fact it took a pressure vote to get him to post in the first place is bad as well. Leaning scum.

Kodama-Reading back, I see elements of the word twisting Mona mentioned. He’s claiming that this was how he genuinely interpreted it, which we can’t verify to be the case. In his response to Mona w/ the replies 1 to 5, he seems to be backing off of a lot of the things he mentioned Day Two. Rhonda scumreading and not lynching him stands out, but I think it’s more likely that Rhonda just didn’t inspect Kodama. Despite his tendency to follow consensus, he’s remained fairly consistent in his reads save Mona and seems to be actively factoring in new content that appears into his reads. Neutral, leaning town.

Mona-The major problems I had with Mona were her passiveness and interactions with Rhonda. She’s actively been working to fix both her passiveness and activity, and reading over her D3 case against Kodama it comes across as having more basis behind it (hence less likely to be a chainsaw). I don’t find her behavior today to be a tunnel of Kodama, as she is actively engaging in discussion with him and also acknowledging other peoples’ posts. Leaning town.

I again have to go. I hope to go into more detail with the Mona read when I get back, as I know for a fact I haven’t had the chance to say everything I wanted to regarding that read.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Mona L. on Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:20 pm

Okay, so the problem here is that I do want to lynch because this is a crucial day, and if we lose because I don't make deadline I am going to be extremely pissed at myself. But the problem is, I will not be able to get online on sunday. Which means that the last thing I do before I leave and hope for the best, will be to lynch someone. I am going to postpone that for as long as I possibly can.

Now as for the actual lynching, who will I lynch? Well so far, it's probably been rather clear to everyone that I thought Kodama was definitely scum and then out of Wilkinson and Roderick there was another scum. But recently, I'm not so sure to be honest.

Kodama has cleared up a lot of things in his post, and the fact that after I cleared up the points he had been apparently misinterpreting (still find it odd), he actually adjusted his read, does make me think he might be town. God knows that I have experience with misinterpretation, and the fact that he changed his opinion on me when finding out that it was in fact a misinterpretation, does change a lot.

But then, this is the first instance of Kodama posting his reads today on day 3. So we do have to consider the possibility of inspections. What I mean by this is that it is possible Rhonda inspected me and I'm the hidden miller.

If I am hidden miller, then a lot of things suddenly make sense. Rhonda townreading me makes sense, Kodama's change in read, realizing that Rhonda probably inspected me and then checking for himself. And even Roderick makes sense, if he inspected Ed and Wilkinson, or if he inspected Kodama and me. Either of those could lead to his strange reads.

So I still think Kodama is very likely to be scum, but so is Roderick.

It's also possible that Kodama actually genuinely changed his read and he's the hidden miller, with Roderick buddying up to him because of that.

Either way, I am not as sure about Kodama as I was earlier and this entire post has my thoughts kind of jumbled up. I would fix it but the noise from typing is hurting my ears so I'll keep it to only the necessary stuff.

So I'm going to say what I actually think right now, it's still likely that Ed is town. So as far as I'm concerned out of Kodama, Roderick and Wilkinson only one is town. Which one it is? I don't know. I would say however that regardless of whether Kodama is scum or Wilkinson is scum, Roderick makes the most sense. Sure he's pushing for a Wilkinson lynch, but that could definitely be bussing, as he is probably aware of how precarious the situation is for him and Wilkinson. Pushing away from Wilkinson so hard could be an attempt to save one of them, or perhaps Kodama is the second scum and he's pushing on Wilkinson because he's an easy lynch target.

Another thing is that we need to stand united as town today because it is lylo. We can't fuck this up. And I know that Ed is most likely going to lynch between Roderick and Wilkinson, and Kodama is probably going to do the same thing. I don't know if he's scum or town but he'll still do it. And then there's Roderick and Wilkinson who are probably going to end up crossing, because what else are they going to do at this point?

So because it is lylo I will be lynching between Roderick and Wilkinson too, and for reasons explained above I think Roderick is more likely to be scum, as I believe a Roderick + Kodama scumteam would definitely be possible, Kodama might even think Roderick is miller while I am his scumbuddy (but actually I'm the miller), explaining the lack of buddying coming from Kodama towards Roderick, and also explaining the change in his read on me.

So the way things are now I have probably jumbled up my thoughts a lot, but I think Roderick would be my best option for a lynch. So that is what I will do if nothing changes my mind before I have to leave. Once I place my lynch, I will not be back before deadline.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Mona L. on Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:29 pm

Well I guess nothing happened, and while I would love to wait longer, I don't have any time left before deadline. So I am going to

lynch Roderick
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Mona L. on Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:30 pm

by no time left before deadline I mean that I don't have any time left where I can get on before deadline, clearing that up now as it might be confusing.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Kodama N. on Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:20 pm

Wilkinson A. wrote:Why would you be expecting me to question you specifically? I've been listing what stands out to me and you can't really blame me for not standing out.

Wilkinson A. wrote:nextly, there was a 5 minute window you gave me sometime AFTER I made my post, when I got off.

Are you trying to try to take advantage of me being scummy to BS a push on me? What does Roderick have to do with my lynch? I don't believe that is the best that people in the game have to lynch me for and I don't think you are being entirely genuine there

Firstly, yes. As Ed already said, I was staying on a little more, just incase you had any questions for me. As I said before, you should be answering every question. Secondly, are you saying that some people don't stand out? Because this is lylo and every person is important. Thirdly, I've said multiple times. It was a pressure lynch for you to post something useful. Fourthly, what I meant with Roderick is that, I was going to lynch him since he was the most scummiest for me, but I decided since we're still quite early in the day, I would pressure you, thus why if Roderick defended himself, I would possibly stay on you.
I'm going to leave my pressure vote on Wilkinson right now, hoping he posts reads or something else useful.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:59 pm

So, going further into the Mona read: People have mentioned Mona posting despite being sick, which I like. Even if we can’t verify the sickness, I think scum using sickess as a reason to not post would just be like “Oh no, I’m sick” and not actually contribute, which Mona has in fact done. The timing of her lynch on Rhonda and Rhonda’s read on Mona both look bad for her, but as far as content goes this is one of the few negative things I notice about Mona reading through.

I find Wilkinson and Roderick to both be scummy but can’t see scum!Roderick pushing scum!Wilkinson from before Wilkinson #3 subs in (unless he inspected the hidden miller and thinks them to be his ally). We’re 24 hours to deadline and I still want to pressure lynch Wilkinson honestly, but there is almost a 100% chance that Roderick shows up and hammers the second I do. Scum!Mona also has little incentive to bus!scum Roderick at this point-she could call out Wilkinson’s reaction and lynch him for it easily (AKA Roderick’s not a 100% lost cause). The alternative is a Mona/Wilkinson scumteam and Mona getting town inspect on Roderick, which isn’t out of the question but I find unlikely, as scum!Mona could just continue to push Kodama in this case.

The scumteam is, in my opinion, one of Roderick/Kodama, Wilkinson/Mona, or Roderick/Wilkinson with Mona or Kodama as the hidden miller. Roderick and Wilkinson both have negative one-sided ties to Kodama and Mona:
-Roderick’s townreads of both of them have little to no basis, and during D3 he heavily postpones a read on Mona while his D4 read on Kodama is a repeat of his D3 read.
-Wilkinson initially gave no read on Kodama, though now he has Kodama as the second scummiest player (albeit with no reason given). He also seems very hung up on his use of the word “wagon” to describe a lynch on Mona even though multiple mention that they don’t care about it.

Take that, Hanzou. Top 20 ez.

I have definite time I can be online right now.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Kodama N. on Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:43 pm

Ed! We need our activity to be better than Game 30's!

Ed S. wrote:So, going further into the Mona read: People have mentioned Mona posting despite being sick, which I like. Even if we can’t verify the sickness, I think scum using sickess as a reason to not post would just be like “Oh no, I’m sick” and not actually contribute, which Mona has in fact done. The timing of her lynch on Rhonda and Rhonda’s read on Mona both look bad for her, but as far as content goes this is one of the few negative things I notice about Mona reading through.

I find Wilkinson and Roderick to both be scummy but can’t see scum!Roderick pushing scum!Wilkinson from before Wilkinson #3 subs in (unless he inspected the hidden miller and thinks them to be his ally). We’re 24 hours to deadline and I still want to pressure lynch Wilkinson honestly, but there is almost a 100% chance that Roderick shows up and hammers the second I do. Scum!Mona also has little incentive to bus!scum Roderick at this point-she could call out Wilkinson’s reaction and lynch him for it easily (AKA Roderick’s not a 100% lost cause). The alternative is a Mona/Wilkinson scumteam and Mona getting town inspect on Roderick, which isn’t out of the question but I find unlikely, as scum!Mona could just continue to push Kodama in this case.

The scumteam is, in my opinion, one of Roderick/Kodama, Wilkinson/Mona, or Roderick/Wilkinson with Mona or Kodama as the hidden miller. Roderick and Wilkinson both have negative one-sided ties to Kodama and Mona:
-Roderick’s townreads of both of them have little to no basis, and during D3 he heavily postpones a read on Mona while his D4 read on Kodama is a repeat of his D3 read.
-Wilkinson initially gave no read on Kodama, though now he has Kodama as the second scummiest player (albeit with no reason given). He also seems very hung up on his use of the word “wagon” to describe a lynch on Mona even though multiple mention that they don’t care about it.

Take that, Hanzou. Top 20 ez.

I have definite time I can be online right now.

"Even if we can’t verify the sickness, I think scum using sickess as a reason to not post would just be like “Oh no, I’m sick” and not actually contribute, which Mona has in fact done."
I think you meant that she did contribute while sick, and I'll just assume that was a typo.

Now, to discuss scumteams.
imo from my perspective, I think that the team rn is Wilkinson/Roderick due to me townreading Ed and Mona + other reasons listed in my reads. I wouldn't mind a lynch on either of them, but I don't like how Wilkinson reacts under pressure, and if this team is correct, then either Roderick is trying to Anita me or just I am the hidden miller.

Grats on Top 20, I would probably have a higher post count if I seperate my points into an each seperate post but, I don't really care about post count.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:48 pm

Same tbh.

I worded the Mona part badly. I meant to say that she was still contributing, which I wouldn't expect from scum if they were claiming to be sick.

I like how Anita is now a verb.

There are times, especially during today (D4 as a whole, not irl today), where I have an afterthought but can't go back to edit, so it becomes a new post.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Kodama N. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:05 am

Yeah, game 29 was such a meme

"her trend of logging in and doing nothing, that she only posted when pressured into doing so, and many of these posts were stating the obvious or pointing things out but coming to no conclusion." - Ed referring to why she lynched Rhonda.

Basically, what this post is about, is that I see that most, if not all of this relates to Wilkinson. What are your thoughts on lynching Wilkinson or Roderick and which one would you prefer right now?
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:12 am

I've mentioned already preferring to lynch between today. With Rhonda the trend was definitely stronger, in part because Rhonda was here for the whole game. At this exact moment, Roderick is a stronger scumread for me and I'd lynch him, but if we get close to deadline and Wilkinson is still postponing on giving answers to what he's asked, it would be scummier especially in conjunction with his awful reaction earlier.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:12 am

I swear my computer is removing random words from my sentences. The first one should say, "I've mentioned already preferring to lynch between the two today."
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Kodama N. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:17 am

well rip your computer tbh.

I'm still undecided on which of them two I'm going to lynch at this moment, yes I know I said Roderick was my scummiest read, but I don't like how Wilkinson is only posting under pressure and unlike Roderick, isn't posting anything useful. I've said what I disliked about him under pressure, but I hope they both come on and hopefully post something useful so I can make my decision easier, but currently I will leave my pressure vote on Wilkinson.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Kodama N. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:21 am

R.I.P. I have to go now, I will check this right as I get home, hopefully a post from Roderick/Wilkinson.

Hopefully this is the key to Page 15 and overtaking Game 30
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:37 am

Ed S. wrote:We’re 24 hours to deadline and I still want to pressure lynch Wilkinson honestly, but there is almost a 100% chance that Roderick shows up and hammers the second I do.
This is also very much still in effect if I lynch Wilkinson. I almost want to lynch Roderick to keep him from shifting plurality off himself, but then there's the opposite problem where Wilkinson can hammer.

Something about Kodama's last couple of posts gives me the feeling of scum subtly trying to move the lynch off a partner, but at the same time the reasoning behind a Wilkinson lynch is valid. Here's hoping both Roderick and Wilkinson come online prior to deadline-and not just a couple of hours before it either.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by ajhockeystar on Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:54 am

Votecount 4.2
******************************

Wilkinson A.(1)- Kodama N.
Roderick S.(1)- Mona L.
Kodama N.(0)-
Mona L.(0)-
Ed S.(0)-
Not Voting(3)- Wilkinson A., Ed S., Roderick S.
******************************
There are 5 alive so it takes 3 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Sunday the 16th at 9pm EST.

If the deadline was now, Wilkinson A. would be lynched.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Wilkinson A. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:28 am

I mean re: the Kodama thing, I was not online at the time of his posts. The 5 minute window means nothing if I wasn't online then.

I;m saying that as I'm scummy there are far better things to push for than me not being online for 5 minutes
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:31 am

I can't go to check when you were and weren't online, but here's what it looks like happened: Kodama asked you to post, you went online without doing so, and Kodama lynched you for pressure (which at least got you to say something).

You're saying there are better things to push you for than not being online during that time, so would you like to defend yourself from those things? Or answer the things people have asked you? Or go into detail with reads?

Maybe all three?
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:41 am

Wilkinson coming on, saying only that, and going offline has done the opposite of what I hoped for and made me more nervous about this day. "I;m saying that as I'm scummy there are far better things to push for than me not being online for 5 minutes" Yes, and you are generating more scumminess with this. Come back to us.
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