Game 31: Separated Scum

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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:48 am

Roderick’s trying way to hard to push Wilkinson, Wilkinson is way too chill in the face of this push and Kodama’s lynch, and I’m not sure which is worse because scum!Wilkinson is very much possible but he’s also a super easy push. I’m not sure if Wilkinson’s even aware that Maria died, considering he has her in his readlist, and I don’t know if he’s hoping I’ll lynch Roderick because “scum would defend themselves more” than he is now. Spoiler alert to Wilkinson if this is what he’s thinking: it’s not happening.

Wilkinson and Roderick currently have each other as top scumreads and neither has lynched. Deadline is in 18 hours. I’m pretty sure we’re looking at another situation like EoD3 and that’s terrifying.

The hypothetical situation in which Roderick and Wilkinson are scum while each thinks Kodama is their partner is very specific and requires a multitude of things to have happened that can’t be verified (them not inspecting each other AND both of them inspecting Kodama AND Kodama being hidden miller to begin with which in turn requires that none of the four dead VTs were the hidden miller). However it's also seeming like a more realistic scenario.

Not gonna lie, I'm basically trying to write out my thoughts in an attempt to figure this out currently. I anticipate a visit from Roderick soon, and would appreciate but am doubtful on another visit from Wilkinson.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Wilkinson A. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:02 am

My lynch isn't entirely BS, but Kodama's reason for hopping on is honestly not the best this game can come up with.

What makes you think that I will hammer instantly? What makes you think Roderick will hammer instantly?

I wasn't posting only out of pressure, I wasn't even online until I saw the lynch. I'd argue that what I've posted, while not remotely close to making me a townread, is somewhat useful, as in not pure shitposting. I'm just posting my thoughts as they come along, and my "reads based on activity" is not true and I'm reading the people that stand out
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Wilkinson A. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:03 am

uh no I haven't really said anything about Maria after her death
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Wilkinson A. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:04 am

Also I had that post up like an hour ago but I had to leave
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Wilkinson A. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:05 am

You know I don't see how you see me as 'not defending myself' right after you said 'only reacts under pressure'. How does one have both traits at the same time?
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:15 am

I finally figured out how to use that MultiQuote button. Comments are in bold.

Wilkinson A. wrote:My lynch isn't entirely BS, but Kodama's reason for hopping on is honestly not the best this game can come up with.

What makes you think that I will hammer instantly? What makes you think Roderick will hammer instantly? I'm currently VERY paranoid about the possibility of one of you being scum ready to quickhammer the other.

I wasn't posting only out of pressure, I wasn't even online until I saw the lynch. I'd argue that what I've posted, while not remotely close to making me a townread, is somewhat useful, as in not pure shitposting. I'm just posting my thoughts as they come along, and my "reads based on activity" is not true and I'm reading the people that stand out No, it's not pure shitposting. But you've not explained any of your reads still and even though Kodama explicitly stated his vote was intended for pressure you reacted as though he was calling for your lynch and only responded to the vote as opposed to anything else going on in the thread.

Wilkinson A. wrote:uh no I haven't really said anything about Maria after her death You included her in your reads order earlier, which is why I brought this up.

Wilkinson A. wrote:You know I don't see how you see me as 'not defending myself' right after you said 'only reacts under pressure'. How does one have both traits at the same time? You certainly weren't defending yourself prior to said pressure, and even with it all you've done is try to discredit the vote on you. That's not a defense.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Wilkinson A. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:46 am

discrediting is a form of defense no? If the vote held little credit in the first place I don't see issue with pointing that out rather than defending myself in some other fashion
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Kodama N. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:40 am

Right now, I'm decently satisfied by Wilkinson's responses. btw, Wilkinson. The vote doesn't really hold "little credit" if plur is on you and you could be lynched. As I've said MULTIPLE times now, I only lynched you to PRESSURE you to talk/do something useful. As I said, I'm satisfied enough, to prefer a lynch on Roderick rn, I definitely think he's the OS Vig who shot Magnus n2, while the CV also shot him n2.
Unlynch Wilkinson to put pressure on Roderick.
But, Wilkinson.. mark my words, if you stop posting just because I unlynched you.. I will be back.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Kodama N. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:43 am

Uhh, I forgot to mention why I think Roderick would've shot Magnus n2.
Here it is below:

1. Roderick #2 said he found it hard to read though everything/catch up with everything on Day 3.
2. what subs mostly do first, is read what their subs said, and in this case, there wasn't much + he got subbed in n2, which meant if CV/OS Vig shot town, then scum would win.
3. Roderick #1 said "Magnus was the most towny imo" which probably means, Roderick #2 couldn't be bothered to read everything in context, besides Roderick #1's posts, which lead him to shot Magnus.

I would like everyone's thoughts on this.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Kodama N. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:48 am

Note: I just got back home, and I will definitely be on for next 3 hours or so, so feel free to ask me any questions or anything else.

Ed S. wrote:Something about Kodama's last couple of posts gives me the feeling of scum subtly trying to move the lynch off a partner, but at the same time the reasoning behind a Wilkinson lynch is valid. Here's hoping both Roderick and Wilkinson come online prior to deadline-and not just a couple of hours before it either.

Tbh, I see how you could think that, but at that point I was just really unsure which of the two to lynch. I was just waiting for them both to post something to help me decide. But presently, Wilkinson has posted, which is why I unlynched, for plur to be on Roderick, so he feels pressured to post.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:57 am

I'm personally not satisfied with this response. Discrediting is not a form of defense but an attempt to handwave away a lynch because it's not really "valid." Why not defend yourself if you're very much aware that you're scummy?

I do wonder if Wilkinson will respond now (and ever explain his readlist) with plurality not on him.

Re: Roderick being OS Vig that shot Magnus, I can see that being possible and it's supported by the fact that Roderick very clearly hasn't read much of the thread. The comment on Magnus was on D1 though, so this would require scum!Roderick #2 to probably not read any of D2. (Of course, it's also possible he saw Magnus's Vigging order of Kazalie>Kazalie>Kazalie during his skim of d1 and concluded Magnus was Vig following his own intentions, even if Magnus gave a second order later d1 [which still had Kazalie at the top].)

I was initially lynching Wilkinson in this post, but then I noticed your comment that Roderick should now feel pressure to post. He's almost certainly going to lynch Wilkinson when he gets online, and right now I don't want to give him incentive to just do that and leave.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Kodama N. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:08 am

Re: Wilkinson's response/still pressuring him, tbh I would now rather have pressure on Roderick, since he is my biggest scumread, and I would like him to response to my theory about him being OS Vig, our scumreads on him, etc.

Also, him thinking he needs to refer to CV as "Town" Vigilante, supports the point of him being OS Vig.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Kodama N. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:47 am

Well.. I don't have much to say currently, but I want to do something. So, I will discuss possible scumteams that have Ed in it since he didn't analyse himself for obvious reasons. It's really obvious why other people haven't, because mostly everyone town reads Ed (besides Roderick of course.)
Note: Even though, I am scum team theorising, this does not mean I think Ed is scum. I just thought this would be useful. Plus, Ed is already very unlikely scum due to his lynching of Rhonda and etc.

[b]Ed and Mona
- Honestly, interactions between Ed and Mona haven't really happened a whole lot (besides, Ed's questions, of course). They could both be scum just distancing from each other/haven't inspected each other and just catfishing us. Mona once said, "I haven't questioned Ed a lot, because to me it seems like he genuinely just did not get what I was trying to say. The entirety of what he does and says seems like someone genuinely trying to help town and scumhunt to me. I haven't found anything particularly scummy that he did, and actions seem to be our biggest form of scumhunting in this game." This seems weird to me. How I interpret of it is that she doesn't question Ed, because she townreads Ed and he wouldn't get what Mona would be saying. Even if I did townread someone (For example, Ed.), I would ask them questions about things. Maybe, this is a playstyle thing, but then again Mona can't come on to confirm either point. Ed hasn't really suspected Mona of being scum at all so, this is imo the Most likely scumteam with Ed in it.

Ed and Roderick - This is by far, the most unlikely scum team. Roderick is scumreading Ed and Ed is scumreading Roderick. Roderick's reasoning is... to say the least, weird and makes no sense. Ed's reasoning, like every one of his posts, filled with good reasonings, etc. Roderick never really mentioned why he thought Ed was scum over Maria since he dead set thought one of Ed/Maria was scum. He only really answers Ed's stuff, which is understandable since Ed is really the main source of questions this game. Honestly, it would be out of the blue and weird for Roderick to be like "Hey! I definitely think that one of x and y are scum! Definitely more y though!" Least likely possibility.


Ed and Wilkinson - Wilkinson #1 never mentioned anything about Ed so I can't read anything into that. Or Wilkinson #2. Ed has been pretty sure that Wilkinson is scum and that Ed has been pressuring Wilkinson a lot (or he said he would but he would be at L-1), but Wilkinson reads Ed as town for reasons universally shared, but yeah. Ed doesn't like much of Wilkinson's posts and clearly states it. This implies that Ed finds Wilkinson's posts scummy, and if he was scum with Wilkinson, then he would most likely just be like "Oh, I understand how you would think _." But still, this is a possibility, and Ed might just be pointing the obvious and not want to be seen as scummy for just agreeing with Wilkinson's posts. Likely, but way more likely than Roderick + Ed and less likely than Mona + Ed

For the record, from least likely, to most likely: RodEd -> EdKinson -> EdMona.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Kodama N. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:56 am

Ed, I would like your thoughts on my scum team theorising and whether you agree with my points or not.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Kodama N. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:39 am

The paranoia I have right now with Ed coming on after every single post I post is real. I don't know if he's a scumteam with Mona and just waiting for me to lynch Roderick since he knows Roderick is my top scumread.

I'm screaming internally.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Kodama N. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:28 am

If you're wondering why my activity is so sporadic today, it's because this is the last time I will be able to get on before deadline. 'Cause today has been a long day, and I need to sleep + I start school tomorrow. If I'm lucky, By lucky, I mean awake enough I can post something/read everything/execute my lynch. Hopefully, my alarm does it's job and I will be able to see an expected post from Roderick and Wilkinson and then I shall decide my lynch. Looks like that no one else is online, and this is the end of the night for me.. hopefully Roderick comes on and posts something useful.. I will sleep with anxiety about the game lol
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Wilkinson A. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:07 am

Ed S. wrote:I'm personally not satisfied with this response. Discrediting is not a form of defense but an attempt to handwave away a lynch because it's not really "valid." Why not defend yourself if you're very much aware that you're scummy?

I do wonder if Wilkinson will respond now (and ever explain his readlist) with plurality not on him.

Re: Roderick being OS Vig that shot Magnus, I can see that being possible and it's supported by the fact that Roderick very clearly hasn't read much of the thread. The comment on Magnus was on D1 though, so this would require scum!Roderick #2 to probably not read any of D2. (Of course, it's also possible he saw Magnus's Vigging order of Kazalie>Kazalie>Kazalie during his skim of d1 and concluded Magnus was Vig following his own intentions, even if Magnus gave a second order later d1 [which still had Kazalie at the top].)

I was initially lynching Wilkinson in this post, but then I noticed your comment that Roderick should now feel pressure to post. He's almost certainly going to lynch Wilkinson when he gets online, and right now I don't want to give him incentive to just do that and leave.

I see your lack in confidence in me.

My readlist was a preliminary one, most of the ones on there are pretty self-explanatory:

Ed S. being obvtown, spearheading scum lynch, active engagement.

Kodama lean town, the vote was weird but after I realise it's a pressure vote, there's no problem with the rest of his posts, they are solid and they serve purpose.

Roderick is the only other real lynch today since it's either between me and him. He's posted more earlier on, but he hasn't really posted at all today.

Mona sorta null here, originally thought they were scummy on first skim but on second thought, they really have not done anything that makes me lean in one direction
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Wilkinson A. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:08 am

I mean to defend yourself from votes you either increase your own credibility or point out the other's lack of credibility, so one just needs to be higher, I couldn't really increase my own credibility at that point but I could find fault with his vote (before I realised it was a pressure vote)
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:51 pm

I'm on mobile atm, hence shorter posts. I fell asleep with the site open last night, so what problem happened was the site auto refreshing until the computer idled.

Re: scumteam pairings, I was very much suspecting Mona d3 and still am today, albeit not to the degree to which I am Wilkinson and Roderick. I interpreted Mona comment re: not inspecting at face value, though I do agree that people should question their townreads similar to how Maria did. However, you're saying you still do this and site me as an example. I can't go back to search for examples right now, but the only time I can think of you doing so is near the end of D3. The only thing pairing left unanalyzed now is EDama, so if someone wants to analyze that they can.

I will say that if I was a scumteam with Mona, there would be little risk in votingDoderick as it would take you, Roderick, and Wilkinson to all lynch one of us to counter it (not impossible, but not likely). I will concede the possibility of not having inspected each other though.

After multiple requests for Wilkinson to go into more detail with his reads, we've only gotten one liners again. He's handwaving away his reaction to Kodama's vote with "oh didn't see it was pressure rip." Other than that, his only "scumread" is Roderick, and he doesn't actually call Roderick scum, just notes his activity and that he's pteentially the other lynch target I'm glad he's still posting and responding, but that fact in itself is NAI now, as he'd feel pressured to contribute regardless of alignment.

Wilkinson, you said Kodama was taking advantage of your scumminess to push you. AKA lynching you because you were scummy. This was an incorrect interpretation, but even if it were right what's wrong with lynching someone scummy? And why wouldn't you proceed to explain prior scummy actions? That, in my opinion, is better to try and say that you don't approve of someone's reasoning (*cough* Mr. Cheeves). You came across as trying to discredit the person instead of their read, which doesn't answer for anything you've done that was scummy.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Roderick S. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:33 pm

guys lynch wilkinson dont let this scum win
On mobile so idk how to bold **LYNCH WILKINSON**
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:43 pm

Phenomenal case, Roderick.

Any answer to anything else that happened in the thread?
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:45 pm

Should mention that if not, I'm likely lynching you, Roderick. Your lack of response entirely is worse than Wilkinson's response.

Plurality, by the way, remains on you.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:47 pm

Actually, I don't want to risk scum!Kodama shifting off their partner. Vote Roderick S. If I see Wilkinson come online, I will unvote so he can't potentially qh. I'll also unvote before going offline if I have to. Deadline's in ~3 hours. I can feel the anxiety building already.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:49 pm

Unvote Roderick S.

On the other hand, Wilkinson gives no actual read on Roderick. Maybe Wilkinson's inspected Roderick at this point but not vice versa? This would mean a lynch on either would be good, but still necessitates hidden miller!Kodama or Mona.

SOMEONE TALK TO ME.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:51 pm

Roderick could also have inspected Wilkinson at this point but at this point decided to continue the tunnel for Anita-level wifom after death. u.u

I see Maria's online and want to apologize to her in advance if I screw this up.
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