Game 31: Separated Scum

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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:04 pm

Sorry for bogging you down with questions Roderick, but what about your circumstanced made you think you'd be the Vig shot?

Mona: I am looking for consistency faults, yes. I don't see what's wrong with doing so. Not responding to scumteam theories isn't helpful in my opinion, but it's NAI. (Doesn't mean I'm going to dismiss the possibility.) I was inquiring more about how your shift on Kodama progressed though-not expecting you to change your thoughts on how it progressed, just wanted to see a more concise summary so I could go back and see for myself with that in mind.

I went back to do this as much as I could, since I can't verify what someone's experiencing irl at the time they post. Your comment on d2 being your exhaustion day does make sense when compared with the activity level there, and in your one post after Kodama's second readlist during d1 you specifically mention that you're looking at players who have posted for the first time. (The point I'm trying to make being that I can indeed see a scenario in which you look back during d3 because of not doing so d1 and d2 as opposed for looking for something to call scummy.)

I think Kodama and Roderick not saying a lot is NAI. In Kodama's case there was nothing but Maria's death to respond to, and I really didn't expect Roderick to respond to everything at once. (Wouldn't have minded him acknowledging it beyond "I'll post more hopefully" though.)

The problem I have with a WilDama scumteam is that it would imply that they both bussed Rhonda. While not impossible, I have doubts on both of them being that careless. On the other hand, Wilkinson giving no read on Kodama after Wilkinson #1 possibly softed a plan to inspect him (see an earlier post of mine today) is problematic, but it's one sided and incriminates Wilkinson more.

If a RoDama scumteam is the case, it could be that Roderick voted Wilkinson as a counterwagon to both Rhonda and Kodama. This would necessitate Roderick having inspected both of them, frankly not impossible given that he postpones his thoughts on Rhonda and the second part of his read on Kodama could very much be someone straining to find a reason to townread someone:
Roderick S. wrote:
Ed S. wrote:Well, it's something.

Roderick #2 is giving me the same vibes as Roderick #1 due to giving little reasoning behind his reads. I see he's online now so to Roderick: What is is that you find scummy about myself and Maria, and what do you find not scummy about Kodama? And what about the interactions between myself/Maria makes you then think otherwise?
The Answer the Other question i Didn't answer At the time i didnt find Kodama N. because of his post as i said but the fact that i feel like he is being honest and he is continuously catching up rather then lurking for one and Not leaving anything out. also i getting town vibes from him also. one of his post that made me think that he is prob town is

Kodama N. wrote:My thought on this is that, scum would more so try more to be less scummy and would most likely won’t form their own opinions, and just keep on going with the majority. That’s what I saw in Mr. Honcho’s post regarding RVS being scummy/not scummy.
the fact the pointed it instead of keeping it to himself. But i Should actually questioned him more
"Second part" referring to his comment on Kodama's explanation for the Honcho vote. Again, this is one-sided and incriminates Roderick more than Kodama.

Currently, I'm more comfortable with lynching one of Wilkinson/Roderick. I find a MoDama scumteam to be all but impossible at this point, meaning that from my perspective at least one of the two are scum. Between them, I'd lynch Roderick if we weren't so early into the day, due to the implication of what a WilDama scumteam would have done yesterday. A RodKinson scumteam is also possible-currently I have it as more likely than both scumteams with one of them/Wilkinson.

(By the way, the making notes thing is just me being way to obsessed with this game. Razz )
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:44 pm

Didn't mention my thoughts on WilMona and RodMona scumteams. Both are possible-in the overall order of most to least likely they're rather high up (not revealing the exact order so people don't try to take advantage of it). Mona's post makes me find them slightly less likely though; but I look forward to Wilkinson and Roderick's comments.

I promise I'll reveal my thoughts on the possible scumteams later, assuming everyone's made some sort of meaningful posts.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:23 pm

Eh, I can go into more detail.

WilMona: I had Mona not listing Wilkinson as a Vig shot d2 as a possible indicator of her backing off an inspected partner. I can't verify if d2 was her "exhaustion day" but the lack of posts d2 then makes sense and Mona doesn't mention anyone else in his place. Wilkinson listing Mona as one of the "wagons" when she had no votes on her also stood out.

RodMona: Roderick calls Mona and Rhonda 1 scum and 1 town, but never explains why. This looks worse for Roderick than Mona, since it can be scum!Roderick trying to either "clear" a partner or pocket/buddy an innocent. I think if Roderick is scum though Mona is more likely to be town, as this and other incriminating reactions that I will wait to mention are one-sided on Roderick's end. Unfortunately, we don't have the luxury of infolynching right now.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by ajhockeystar on Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:25 pm

Votecount 4.1
******************************

Kodama N.(0)-
Wilkinson A.(0)-
Roderick S.(0)-
Mona L.(0)-
Ed S.(0)-
Not Voting(5)- Kodama N., Wilkinson A., Ed S., Mona L., Roderick S.
******************************
There are 5 alive so it takes 3 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Sunday the 16th at 9pm EST.

If the deadline was now, Kodama N. would be lynched.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Kodama N. on Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:54 pm

Ed S. wrote:Should point out we're in MyLo or PLyLo again. I want to evaluate relations. 

Yes, scum isn’t guaranteed to know their partners, but we can at least look at yesterday’s LyLo. Were Maria alive still, for example, I was going to point out that her behavior had became more erratic throughout the day and her last post contradicted much of her behavior prior (she’d hardly mentioned Kodama, had prior to her last post said Rhonda not coming on made things worse worse for her, and barely pressured Roderick aside from placing a vote on him.) I’ll try to stay engaged in the current conversation as well.

I have questions unanswered from yesterday and questions caused by the flip. I’m frankly satisfied with both Kodama and Mona’s EoD’s in that I feel I can go back and understand their intentions, regardless of alignment, hence there are fewer questions for them.

QUESTIONS FOR RODERICK::


QUESTIONS FOR WILKINSON::


QUESTIONS FOR KODAMA::


QUESTIONS FOR MONA:


Wishing Maria was alive to explain why she didn't think Roderick was scum and go into more detail with Kodama. Roderick's definitely had more scumhunting than Wilkinson, at least. While I'm reading back, I'm also going to look for the things Maria mentioned closer to EoD, since at least we now know they don't come from someone trying to manipulate things.

1. Yeah, it’s Lylo, you asked about the wincon, so you should know this. Not sure if you only asked to gain towncred or something but yeah. It’s lylo.
2. As the days go on, it’s better for scum team theorising and it becomes for valid and I’ll go on about my thoughts on the scumteams later.
3. I will answer yours/Mona’s question next.

Mona L. wrote:Okay I'm going to try and clear up this entire situation. My lynch was because I believed Kodama was the most likely scum. That was my reasoning, and that is why I lynched. If anyone ended up acting scummier than Kodama did, then that would be reason enough for me to change my lynch. So I lynched Kodama, knowing he might not come online again, knowing he might not defend himself, which is why I said regardless of whether he would defend himself. Kodama however decided to twist my words around as he seems to like doing a lot, and act like I didn't care about his defense, which I do. I included him in the people who had influence on whether or not I would change my lynch. He hasn't really convinced me though.

When I sorta “twist the words” around, it’s basically how I interpreted what they said (in that situation, what you said), and the way I interpreted it, looked scummy imo. If I interpreted it wrong, you may correct me, but the way I interpreted it is “me twisting your words”.

Ed S. wrote:I don't expect Wilkinson #3 to have an answer, but Kodama is the only person Wilkinson #3 gives no read on. This makes sense if Wilkinson #1 inspected Kodama and was trying to soft it here.

Well, when Wilkinson said that, it was day 1, meaning none of scum had gotten a chance to inspect yet.

Ed S. wrote:Your read on Mona shifts from a strong townread to a strong scumread from Day Two to Day Three. Why I didn't notice this I'm not sure, but I want an explanation, especially because she's Town here.

1. Her excuses screamed fake to me
2. When she admitted to being passive and noncommittal, she never implied to work on it, she just said she “should” and imo it’s sort of like defeatism.
3. She lynched me for the reason she didn’t lynch Rhonda over me (thinking Rhonda needed a sub).
4. I interpreted her saying about “not expecting me to defend myself” as that she wouldn’t care about my defence at all and that she would stay on me no matter what.
Side note: On my most recent read list, she isn’t a “strong scumread” as you said, I put “leaning scum”.

Ed S. wrote:Just noticed that you seem to automatically conclude Maria was shot by the Vig and not the OS Vig. Is there a reason for this?

Rhonda was the RBer Cop so the CV had no way of being roleblocked. Sure, the OS Vig could’ve shot Maria as well, but still the CV had to have shot her as well.

Ed S. wrote:This is going to be like Day Two, only worst, isn't it…

Not if I have anything to do with it!

Ed S. wrote:Kodama, what do you make of Wilkinson's hasty vote with the knowledge that the person he voted flipped scum?

As I said, I don’t like his one-liner point about Rhonda and then lynching her, and I would’ve unlynched and pressured Wilkinson if I wasn’t the counter wagon, but Wilkinson could’ve inspected Rhonda before and bussed, but then again bussing in LYLO is pretty much useless, unless you’re really sure a partner is going to die.

Ed S. wrote:It has occurred to me that the Roleblocker is dead. Ignore this.

Oh. Well, I was responding to things in chronological order.

I will try as hard as possible to be as active as possible so this game shall not stay dead! Very Happy
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:36 pm

Wasn’t really asking re: w/e situation this is; but I do think it needed to be pointed out. There have been cases of people forgetting in the past. The tl;dr is we need to lynch scum and shouldn’t lynch quickly.

Kodama N. wrote:
When I sorta “twist the words” around, it’s basically how I interpreted what they said (in that situation, what you said), and the way I interpreted it, looked scummy imo. If I interpreted it wrong, you may correct me, but the way I interpreted it is “me twisting your words”.
Um…right now this sounds like you’re admitting to twisting her words. If you mean something else, could you explain?

None of scum having the chance to inspect Day One doesn’t really influence my theory on Wilkinson #1’s vote against you. It’s only a theory, yes. However Wilkinson #3 not giving a read on you supports it-you were the closest thing to a counterwagon to Rhonda at the time so I’d have expected a comparison. Instead, he comments on Roderick, who’s only vote was intended for pressure, and Mona, who had no votes on her.

Re: comments on Mona.

1. I can see them being either fake or genuine; there’s evidence to support both. I’m almost tempted to disregard it entirely, but it’s directly affected Mona’s activity level so that’s hard to do.

2. The “should” didn’t jump out at me, nothing stops someone from saying they “should” do something and attempting to rectify it within the same game. Honestly, you’re one of the people I wouldn’t have expected to go after this comment, considering it’s a playstyle thing and you atttibuted your shift in reads to the same thing.

3. I don’t see a post where Mona mentions that Rhonda may need a sub.

4. Okay, so here’s how I interpreted this. Mona did mention that her opinion may change based on what you and others said. But she also pointed out you being unlikely to defend yourself. This came across to me as scum saying to their partners, “I found an easy target.”

5. Mona was, relatively speaking, a strong scumread for you. The only person you found scummier was Rhonda. Sorry for the confusion w/ my use of “strong.”

You propose that Wilkinson inspected Rhonda and bussed. As you mention, this is unlikely (I think if Wilkinson is scum, he inspected a partner+hidden miller and came to a false conclusion). Could you go into more detail with this? Your comment seems vague, kind of like, “Oh, well he could have done this but probably didn’t, and I’m not sure which is more likely.” Which do you believe is more likely, and where would you put him in your reads right now?

Also, what is your read on Roderick? (Asked this of everyone, there was no response in your post.)
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:14 am

There is a post on page 9 where Kodama has a readlist during Day Three. I won’t quote the it for the sake of keeping this post shorter, but I’m bringing it up as I continue my perusal of the game.

This is making me question everything. Did I get pocketed by scum!Kodama D3? When I saw his readlist I noted how the order was similar to mine, but given that I felt my own opinions were justified I didn’t give it much thought. I went back to look at his own reasons for the reads and…

Wilkinson: Says he may need a sub, goes on to weak scum lean based on D1. Surely if his needing a sub makes your lean weaker, Rhonda possibly needing a sub would merit the same from Mona? (I still don’t see a place where Mona mentions thinking that Rhonda needs a sub; what I’m getting at is “Why would you point this out as scummy when you seem to have done a similar thing?”)

Roderick: This read makes sense for the time it was posted, in my opinion.

Maria: Main reason cited is that she’s active. Well and good, but what about her content? (Not expecting a response to this now, and I’ll probably disregard any given.)

Ed: Someone else tell me how Kodama’s read here is coming across to them. Please. He mentions the uncertainties from D1 (still NAI in my opinion) and what pushes him to lean town is my activity and explaining motives. The problems he mentions include my not posting reads (which I do) and that I don’t contribute to discussions I’m not mentioned/involved in (I can go back to see if this is the case but I think I’ve been involved in the majority of the discussion. This also contradicts his comment of me being “observant” somewhat). It almost looks like he’s searching for a reason to put me below Maria and make any kind of pocketing seem less obvious.

Mona/Rhonda: Brings up the possibility of Mona trying to protect Rhonda, which I believed/still believe to be possible. But he goes on to say that scumteam speculation is redundant. So much of the read on Mona is more of a retaliation to Mona’s vote on him, which supports Maria’s comment on cherrypicking in his reads. On the other hand, Kodama placed the second vote on Rhonda. So a scum!Kodama didn’t inspect Rhonda and was fairly decisive in his vote on her. Whether this was for a Mona mislynch the next day or a scum!Kodama inspected a partner/hidden miller, I don’t know.

My read on Kodama’s been fluctuating all game, and I hate it. Every time I start to become confident in my lean on him in one direction, something happens that makes me go back and find things that change it. I went back to look at this because I still didn't fully understand what Maria meant about the Rhonda lynch feeling schemed, so I initially just planned to look at Kodama's read on Rhonda. Additionally, his most recent post feels almost complacent, as a decent amount of it isn't related to scumhunting and the part that is refers to Mona only even though he's been asked about Wilkinson/Roderick and had promised elaboration on Maria not deserving to be shot.

By the way, Kodama, you mentioned at EoD yesterday that plurality would be on you if you unvoted Rhonda, which wouldn't be true-it'd still be on her. I understand paranoia about Rhonda shifting though. On the other hand, you wanted to do to pressure Wilkinson-what would you have hoped to accomplish by pressuring him so late into the day?
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Wilkinson A. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:02 am

Ok so in response to couple of things, I already admitted 'wagon' was the wrong choice of word, so ask more about the new choice of word rather than my slip up when forming my post please.

Also ' a couple of hours' is very vague, and I apologize, I will get back and talk in 5 hours.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Roderick S. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:13 am

Reads

ED S.( leaning scum)
-it may not be obvious but you are really trying to avoid a Wilkinson lynch who is scum in my eyes. so you been tryna push me over him
and your response to wilkinson coming on is really weak in my opinion and the fact you unlynch your scum read just so they can explain themeselves

Wilkinson A.(scum)
-first off, hes really scummy, i already explained how he can be the os vig and the quick bandwaggon i likely seem him being ed s. partner

Kodama(town)
i read him as tonw beacause his post as i said but the fact that i feel like he is being honest and he is continuously catching up rather then lurking for one and Not leaving anything out. also i getting town vibes from him also. one of his post that made me think that he is prob town is

Mona(leaning Town read)
really by process of elim
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Roderick S. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:30 am

Ed S. wrote:Sorry for bogging you down with questions Roderick, but what about your circumstanced made you think you'd be the Vig shot?

Its Not important so i dont see a point in answering

#3] as for your questions i wasn't hesitant i dont know how i would awnser this, i guess i just read you guys first that all

#2] look at me readlist i also forgot to mention i also think out of the two town reads One of them is town vig  because it kinda obvi

#1] dont really et the question but i think i know what you mean, i would say look more for reactions, the person target and hows he going about and how he trying to avoid a lynch but also not making it obvi and im sure there alot more


anyways im dead set thinking Wilkinson is scum.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:56 am

My activity may be sporadic today. Emphasis on "may."

Wilkinson telling people what they should ask him about is annoying-the word choice in this case is frankly low on my list of things I'm hoping to hear about from Wilkinson.

I want to tell myself Roderick is planning to answer the other questions directed at him (really no way for him to miss them given they're in a spoiler tag entitled "Questions for Roderick" with one more at the very top of this page) but I'm not sure if it's coming. Regardless, I have a number of problems with his read list, which if anything makes me more certain that scum!Roderick is the case. My comments are in bold.

Roderick S. wrote:Reads

ED S.( leaning scum)
-it may not be obvious but you are really trying to avoid a Wilkinson lynch who is scum  in my eyes. so you been tryna push me over him I really haven't. If you think I have, explain how. This is also confirmation bias at its finest-"I think this person is scum, therefore anyone who disagrees with me must also be scum."
and your response to wilkinson coming on is really weak in my opinion and the fact you unlynch your scum read just so they can explain themeselves I unlynched Rhonda due to being uncomfortable with Wilkinson's quick vote on her. I also relynch her very shortly after, so I think you're giving too much emphasis to me unlynching her. We can discuss my response to Wilkinson coming online more, but I don't find it weak. It would be helpful if you went into more detail with what you found weak about it. This is, again, confirmation bias.

I also love how I've gone from a townread of yours Day Three to a scumread now simply because I am "trying to avoid a Wilkinson lynch" despite there now being three and a half days of content for you to examine.


Wilkinson A.(scum)
-first off, hes really scummy, i already explained how he can be the os vig and the quick bandwaggon i likely seem him being ed s. partner "He's really scummy" does not explain to us your thought process. We've already discussed the OS Vig!Wilkinson-while possible, we can't confirm it without confirmation that the Vigilante didn't shoot Magnus, which we don't have.

Kodama(town)
i read him as tonw beacause his post as i said but the fact that i feel like he is being honest and he is continuously catching up rather then lurking for one and Not leaving anything out. also i getting town vibes from him also. one of his post that made me think that he is prob town is This is very literally copy/pasted from an earlier read you gave on him. I responded the first time when you did this, and you completely dropped the topic, so please respond to that. You also mentioned in that post that you "should have questioned him more"
Said response, to make it easier to respond:
Ed S. wrote:I personally don't see what about the fact that he pointed that out indicates about alignment. That specific post is him explaining his thoughts on Mr. Honcho.

Mona(leaning Town read)
really by process of elim "I have two scumreads, therefore everyone else is town" or "Rhonda flipped scum, therefore Mona is town." I can't tell which you're trying to imply, but the first is more confirmation bias and the second is currently unexplained. Mona has plenty of content for you to base a read on as opposed to just saving her for the last read and calling it PoE.

To summarize, Roderick seems to be extrapolating from a single  comment of preferring his lynch over Roderick's to conclude that I am defending his scumread (false) and that anyone who defends his scumread must be false (confirmation bias, also known as tunneling) regardless of what the original scumread is based on (a hypothetical scenario). The basis behind his townreads is flawed as well, beyond the scale of someone who has just skimmed the game.

(Roderick's second post appeared after this point.)

Thank you for answering, at least.

1. Yes, I find it important. Don't try to avoid questions.

2. Okay...? It's possible to go back and change an opinion.

3. The Town Vig comment is 100% irrelevant. I mentioned my problem with your Mona read above. Go into more detail with how Rhonda flipping scum makes Mona town.

3. That's called being scummy.

What you're dead set on is tunneling, and it's a problem.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:12 am

Roderick S. wrote:
Ed S. wrote:Sorry for bogging you down with questions Roderick, but what about your circumstanced made you think you'd be the Vig shot?

Its Not important so i dont see a point in answering
I'm actually very pissed now so let me go into detail why this is important.

In my opinion, Wilkinson, Mona, and even Maria (for her erratic EoD and the unfortunate timing of her last post/vote on Kodama) all were more likely Vigilante candidates than you, so I see this comment as potentially scum who is too paranoid about their own scumminess. Saying you don't see a point in answering is flat out unhelpful-if someone asks you something, just answer it as opposed to trying to pick and choose what you feel like answering to.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:36 am

Typo in my second to last post before this, fixed in bold:

"and that anyone who defends his scumread must be scum (accidentally used "false"; I was tired)"

Also I'm certain everyone's aware of the problems I have with tone-reading, but Roderick feeling the need to refer to a "Town" Vigilante specifically sticks out like a sore thumb.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Wilkinson A. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:44 am

u I know it's been more than 5 hours sorry sorry
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Wilkinson A. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:55 am

re: Mona "wagon", I've said it before and I'll say it again, wagon was the wrong choice of word, at that point I only skimmed the thread and I was basing what I said off the support backing the said "wagon". I don't know how much you're planning to read into a misused choice of word, but I don't think it's AI in any way
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Wilkinson A. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:56 am

@Roderick why are you "dead set" on my being scum? You haven't really elaborated ever since I subbed in or why I am scummier than other lurkers
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Wilkinson A. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:02 pm

Ed S. wrote:Could you go into more detail with your reads, perhaps?

You gave no read on Kodama. What are your thoughts on him?

What did you see that made Maria slightly less townier than me?

You seemed to know you were coming back, so why did you feel the need to lynch right then and there? Planning for a lynch is one thing, but normally people plan before doing something and not after.

Well, my reads aren't really well formed right now, I'd like a bit more time to fully consolidate them with full reasoning. Rough list rn (from Town > Scum): Ed S. > Maria > Mona > Kodama > Roderick

Examples (like this post) are everywhere, while both are actively gamesolving, I see you posting more of this kind of posts that really engage other users, which leads to more productive posts than just throwing out points.

I was just planting my vote on the scummiest person on my skimmed before continuing. I see no issue in letting my vote rest on someone before properly gathering my thoughts, and I'd rather my vote be doing something rather than nothing

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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:22 pm

I've mentioned not being to concerned with the word choice itself in this case already. I did put the word in quotation marks, so I'm sorry for any confusion that may have caused. The main problem I have with it was that you were describing it as something to join when there was nobody to join.

I think I've seen Maria actively engage others fairly often as well, but I will go back to check this.

I understand that one can change their vote. The problem I had was that at the time it seemed like a half-hearted reason to vote Rhonda and when posting your reads you only pointed out her low activity but not the content of her posts. I ended up unlynching due worrying about scum!Wilkinson who had gotten a town inspect on Rhonda. Obviously, this wasn't the case, but with a hidden miller in the setup I started wondering if scum!Wilkinson had come to the false conclusion I mentioned earlier (inspected partner/hidden miller, thought he'd found both partners), which is why I haven't dropped the topic.

Re: still consolidating reads, I suggest trying to do so soon. Deadline is in ~2 days, and waiting until the last couple of hours makes for a hectic EoD like yesterday's. Then again, you subbed in midway through Day Three so maybe this will be different.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Mona L. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:11 pm

Yeah I don't really care that much about the choice of words with "wagon" either. Regardless of the choice of words, it was a weird thing to say and do.

I also want to say that I got sick again. I know, it's a lot of sickness. It's just a headache though so I should be fine to just do things normally, I've just got less energy to start with.

Ed S. wrote:...

Mona: I am looking for consistency faults, yes. I don't see what's wrong with doing so. Not responding to scumteam theories isn't helpful in my opinion, but it's NAI. (Doesn't mean I'm going to dismiss the possibility.) I was inquiring more about how your shift on Kodama progressed though-not expecting you to change your thoughts on how it progressed, just wanted to see a more concise summary so I could go back and see for myself with that in mind.

I went back to do this as much as I could, since I can't verify what someone's experiencing irl at the time they post. Your comment on d2 being your exhaustion day does make sense when compared with the activity level there, and in your one post after Kodama's second readlist during d1 you specifically mention that you're looking at players who have posted for the first time. (The point I'm trying to make being that I can indeed see a scenario in which you look back during d3 because of not doing so d1 and d2 as opposed for looking for something to call scummy.)

...

Currently, I'm more comfortable with lynching one of Wilkinson/Roderick. I find a MoDama scumteam to be all but impossible at this point, meaning that from my perspective at least one of the two are scum. Between them, I'd lynch Roderick if we weren't so early into the day, due to the implication of what a WilDama scumteam would have done yesterday. A RodKinson scumteam is also possible-currently I have it as more likely than both scumteams with one of them/Wilkinson.

(By the way, the making notes thing is just me being way to obsessed with this game. Razz )

There's nothing wrong with looking for consistency faults, it's a strategy you can use. I personally don't like using it because it's just as easy for town to forget as it is for scum. The only difference would be if scum has been trying to manipulate things in a certain direction and for whatever reason that means they are more likely to be inconsistent? But if they are really manipulating then they'd be too careful and reread everything.

I would say that I definitely looked back on d3 because I didn't do so earlier, but really that would be a lie. I was trying to see what I could get from the point I'd made on d2 about tunneling stuff. That's why I looked back.

While I still believe Kodama is probably scum, from my perspective there's still one out of Roderick and Wilkinson who is scum. I would say that out of the people here it's not very likely that Ed is scum. So I wouldn't mind lynching between Roderick and Wilkinson either, though I do prefer lynching Kodama as I still believe that he is scum, regardless of his lynch on Rhonda. It is entirely possible that he would be the OS vig and was looking for safe town targets to kill rather than scum buddies to help. It would make sense for OS vig to look for safe kills over anything else I think, so he wouldn't be likely to inspect Rhonda if that's the case.

Kodama N. wrote:...

Mona L. wrote:Okay I'm going to try and clear up this entire situation. My lynch was because I believed Kodama was the most likely scum. That was my reasoning, and that is why I lynched. If anyone ended up acting scummier than Kodama did, then that would be reason enough for me to change my lynch. So I lynched Kodama, knowing he might not come online again, knowing he might not defend himself, which is why I said regardless of whether he would defend himself. Kodama however decided to twist my words around as he seems to like doing a lot, and act like I didn't care about his defense, which I do. I included him in the people who had influence on whether or not I would change my lynch. He hasn't really convinced me though.

When I sorta “twist the words” around, it’s basically how I interpreted what they said (in that situation, what you said), and the way I interpreted it, looked scummy imo. If I interpreted it wrong, you may correct me, but the way I interpreted it is “me twisting your words”.

Ed S. wrote:I don't expect Wilkinson #3 to have an answer, but Kodama is the only person Wilkinson #3 gives no read on. This makes sense if Wilkinson #1 inspected Kodama and was trying to soft it here.

Well, when Wilkinson said that, it was day 1, meaning none of scum had gotten a chance to inspect yet.

Ed S. wrote:Your read on Mona shifts from a strong townread to a strong scumread from Day Two to Day Three. Why I didn't notice this I'm not sure, but I want an explanation, especially because she's Town here.

1. Her excuses screamed fake to me
2. When she admitted to being passive and noncommittal, she never implied to work on it, she just said she “should” and imo it’s sort of like defeatism.
3. She lynched me for the reason she didn’t lynch Rhonda over me (thinking Rhonda needed a sub).
4. I interpreted her saying about “not expecting me to defend myself” as that she wouldn’t care about my defence at all and that she would stay on me no matter what.
Side note: On my most recent read list, she isn’t a “strong scumread” as you said, I put “leaning scum”.

...

I get that it's possible to simply interpret someone's words poorly. Except, that does not account for twisting around the chronology just so you could call me a hypocrite. I'm sure you remember that time you said I was trying to blend in by scumreading you, even though I had started the discussion about you? Even though nobody else actually said anything that pointed to you as a scumread? That's not simply a poor interpretation. And like I said, I believe Ed simply didn't interpret it the way I meant it, but you are so far off that I don't really believe it wasn't on purpose. Especially as you started using words I'd used against me. I talked about how you were trying to blend in and your response was basically "well you are trying to blend in" when I wasn't. That combined with the "misinterpretation" to me just screams scum.

1. Honestly dude how are my "excuses" any different from your poor internet "excuses"? It's honestly really shitty behaviour if you start lying about IRL things to benefit a mafia game imo. Which is why I would never lie about something like this. And also why my first instinct when people are being shitty with their activity is to assume that they have something IRL going on.

2. I've talked about this. You're putting way too much weight on the use of the word "should". I already lynched you before you even mentioned how it implied I wouldn't do anything about it (which is still a huge assumption over what word I used), so you could have known even before talking about it that I had already begun working on it. It's just really weird that you're still going on about something that wasn't even a thing anymore the first time you mentioned it.

3. I'm not sure what this is about? I lynched you because you behaved in a very scummy way. I realized you probably needed a sub, but regardless of that you had been acting suspicious. Rhonda had not acted that suspicious, the only thing really was her absence. Which at the point where I first lynched you was strange but not lynchworthy. Of course by the end of the day her silence while she wasn't absent had become lynchworthy.

4. Considering you're using past tense here I'm going to assume that you get that this assumption was not correct now. As I have also explained this. (You don't use past tense at point 2 so I'm assuming you still believe in that point)

I might have missed some things. I should be online for at least an hour. Don't know how long I'll be able to stay online after that but I think I saw Ed online so if you have anything to say please do.

Another thing, I probably won't be able to get online on sunday, so that could be a problem, but I'll try to work with that.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:38 pm

Mona L. wrote:I would say that I definitely looked back on d3 because I didn't do so earlier, but really that would be a lie. I was trying to see what I could get from the point I'd made on d2 about tunneling stuff. That's why I looked back.
For the similar reasons to what I said about Magnus's reaction test Day One, I like this.

The OS Vig looking for safe kill targets is a possibility I didn't consider. That said, while I see a scum!Kodama potentially inspecting Magnus N1, I don't see him inspecting Maria going into LyLo. Then again, if he shot Magnus N2 he might become more concerned with finding partners since the shot'd be expended.

I want to go back to read over the D3 discussion between Mona and Kodama, but I may not be online with enough time to do this. I'll finish what I can, though.

I wouldn't mind a second opinion on Roderick's readlist. Or a third or fourth.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Mona L. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:05 pm

Right, Ed's request for more opinions on Roderick's readslist reminded me of it.

Roderick S. wrote:Reads

ED S.( leaning scum)
-it may not be obvious but you are really trying to avoid a Wilkinson lynch who is scum  in my eyes. so you been tryna push me over him
and your response to wilkinson coming on is really weak in my opinion and the fact you unlynch your scum read just so they can explain themeselves

Wilkinson A.(scum)
-first off, hes really scummy, i already explained how he can be the os vig and the quick bandwaggon i likely seem him being ed s. partner

Kodama(town)
i read him as tonw beacause his post as i said but the fact that i feel like he is being honest and he is continuously catching up rather then lurking for one and Not leaving anything out. also i getting town vibes from him also. one of his post that made me think that he is prob town is

Mona(leaning Town read)
really by process of elim

The thing is, Ed himself talked about the "this person is scum so this person who is not scumreading them must be their buddy" thing. It's usually very iffy, but even moreso in this game. Even if Ed is scum, why would he know for sure about Wilkinson being scum? Scum has an inspect for a reason. And then there's the fact that Ed isn't actually being protective of Wilkinson? So the read on Ed is based on something very flimsy.

Then there's the read on Wilkinson, which, this is based on a theory and one thing Wilkinson did. Yeah the quick bandwagon is odd. But I'm sure that if you go looking through the game you could find more support for a lynch on anyone than simply someone doing an odd bandwagon. Then there's the possibility of os vig Wilkinson and like I said, it's a theory. It's not very solid.

Now with Kodama it gets interesting, and here is where I'm going to say that a Roderick + Kodama scumteam is definitely a possibility. Roderick talks about his honesty, the fact that he tries to catch up and that he doesn't leave anything out. There's also something about a town vibe which is something I am not going to talk about more as it's not something I can really do anything with, and something that got cut off with an example of a post he really liked or whatever.

Now the reason that this is interesting is because these are things that you could say about ed, these are things you could say about me. These are not things you can say about Kodama. Not all of them. You can say whatever you want about honesty, you can say literally anyone in this game has been honest. It does not matter. It is not something you know and is honestly bullshit to bring up in a readlist in mafia. So this is something where either I'm not getting what he is actually trying to say or it's just something to make his read seem more solid. The thing with Kodama trying to catch up, that's something you could say about me too as I had activity problems too, yet with me it's just process of elimination. And the third point he has is that Kodama doesn't leave anything out, which, he does. Kodama leaves out a lot of things, Kodama ignores a lot of things, he's constantly cherrypicking what to respond to. Yet for some reason Roderick is convinced that this is not happening. Convinced enough to point out how well Kodama is doing with it. So we have ne bullshit argument, one point that could also apply to me (and he left me at poe) and one point which is just flat out wrong. (and then there's the thing about certain posts making him believe Kodama is townie and a town vibe, but those are hard to talk about.)

And then there's the weirdness of the read on me, which is just "process of elimination" basically.

So there is definitely something weird going on and I think it's a Roderick + Kodama scumteam, with Roderick trying to push towards a possible Ed + Wilkinson team, while trying to get on my good side. Now I'm not sure why he'd be trying to get on my good side with this rather than Ed's, but I guess he might just think I'd be easier to convince? I don't know.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:59 pm

I LOST THIS POST AS I FINISHED AND HAVE MUCH SALT.

I'm reading through D3 (and Roderick's ISO) as I write this.

Roderick doesn't actually bring up Wilkinson's quick vote at any point. What I have noticed so far looking at Day Three is how this almost seems premeditated:
Roderick S. wrote:ok tbh i think one of ed s or maria is one of the mafia morely ed s. But i think there interactions between each other says so otherwise.though im not sure i haven't remember everything but they could be just trying to get somewhere with the game
Kodama N. dosent appear scummy to me except his inactiveness but i dont think he is really a mafia just by reading his post
and just like everyone read Wilkinson # 2  hasent say anyhing could just be a lurking mafia.
thats 4/6 of my reads
just give me till tomorrow by then i should be pushing my scum target as well with the rest of my reads
Nobody really brought up the idea of "lurking Wilkinson=SCUM!" and the entire discussion on me being scummier than Maria amounted to very little. His read on me now is based on the idea that I'm protecting Wilkinson, which I haven't been doing and definitely wasn't doing at the time he made this post. Wilkinson #3 subs in and an hour and a half later Roderick shows up to lynch him, even though all Wilkinson #3 has done at that point is made the hasty vote (which Roderick doesn't mention) and promise reads.

Roderick's read on Kodama today is a direct copy/paste from his D3 read on him. The remainder of it is as follows:
Roderick S. wrote:
Kodama N. wrote:My thought on this is that, scum would more so try more to be less scummy and would most likely won’t form their own opinions, and just keep on going with the majority. That’s what I saw in Mr. Honcho’s post regarding RVS being scummy/not scummy.
the fact the pointed it instead of keeping it to himself. But i Should actually questioned him more

aS for the other Two Mona and mhonda? something like that i havent done anything deep reading about them but i prob would say one is scum and one is town. but before i make a offical claim like that i just investigate more into kodama but as for now and if time running out i would prob leave the read as it is
I comment on how he shouldn't be basing a read on this above. I also did so when he first mentioned it.

I honestly don't know if Roderick is trying to get into anyone's good graces-townreading Kodama's not a move one would make if they were trying to pocket Mona, he's scumreading me and Wilkinson, so unless he sees something in Kodama (possibly him thinking Kodama's his partner) I think he's more focused on pushing his own agenda.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:03 pm

I could have sworn I mentioned this earlier, but I'm not seeing it: Roderick never followed through in questioning Kodama more despite saying he "should have" and having plenty of time D3 to to so. I don't consider Roderick's "why do you townread Ed and Maria" to be this, as he also asked Mona this.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Ed S. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:57 pm

Kodama not being active even though he seemed so intent on doing so is sad. And odd, considering he declares an intention to be more active at two different points in his most recent post.

Finished the reread of D3.

I went back to see if Kodama’s second readlist D1 was in fact sheeping the consensus. Save neutral reads on myself and Magnus, this seems to be the case. While the reasonings are mostly things that haven’t been brought up, there are a lot of points that are in my opinion more null tells than anything (Mr. Cheeves’s comment of “Hope for the best”, 3 of my then 22 posts being requests for activity).

Given the low number of posts Mona had Day Two, Kodama’s initial response to Mona’s read on him makes sense to me. He points out having brought up original points in his second readlist, which is true, but some of these are null tells as I mentioned above.

I’ve brought up Rhonda scumreading and not lynching Kodama. She really doesn’t go into that much detail with her read on him, but he’s her only scumread. Given that she makes this read fairly early into D3, I doubt there’s wifom involved in it and it’s likely that Rhonda didn’t inspect Kodama (AKA I doubt there’s merit in reading into the interactions in this case). (I think she’d have lynched if she’d gotten a town inspect, and not have him as a sole scumread with a scum inspect.) I’ve discussed my issues with her read on Mona before.

Reading over Maria’s paragraph about how Mona wasn’t blending in further makes me question the importance of Rhonda’s read on Kodama, given that it sheeps a forming consensus.

Kodama’s D3 read on Mona includes this quote:
Kodama N. wrote:
After my post of responding to things, she said “So I lynched you regardless of whether I expected you to defend yourself or not.”, which implies that she won’t unlynch even if I have a good defense.
Prepare for more semantics talk: Mona uses past tense, indicating her thought process at the time she cast the vote. Here you use present tense to imply that she doesn’t plan on changing her mind (though she does imply potentially changing her mind in an earlier post re: Rhonda). I can see how this can come across as twisting one’s words around.

I know this post is primarily about Mona/Kodama, but yet another thing I noticed regarding Roderick. His flip of his read on me would likely come from inspecting me, and I was trying to figure out what would motivate him to do that (I considered the d2 discussion between me and Mona but it didn’t strike me as something that would cause someone to inspect). Reading through D3 now, this post of mine stands out to me:
Ed S. wrote:
Things I don't understand due to grammar:
"but my self in a bad position thing is i think yall have been to friendly with each other"
"dosent seem right for yall to let each other off the hook but i assume yall rather keep eachother alive for lylo or something though i would lynch any of you town today" (The bolded section, if I'm understanding correctly, is concerning. I know for a fact someone's going to be like "Ermahgerd he slipped gettem," but given the general spelling/grammar patterns in Roderick #2's posts I'm more inclined to believe it's an typo.)
I can easily see a scum!Roderick interpreting the section in parentheses as a defense of him, but wanting to inspect to make sure.


Conclusion: I see validity in the claim that Kodama is twisting words/cherry picking with his reads. That he didn’t initially respond to this accusation during D3, when it was fairly prominent, is a problem. I also question the timing of Kodama’s Rhonda lynch looking back, as the order of things ends up being:

1. Kodama makes his readlist, with Rhonda as his top scumread.
2. I call out Kodama on not lynching his top scumread even though he calls out Maria for not doing so.
3. When Kodama returns, he lynches his top scumread (Rhonda) and responds regarding his calling out Maria as opposed to his not lynching Rhonda earlier.

Which could be someone hoping the issue would be glossed over. Which it was at the time, as I was pretty dead set on a Rhonda lynch. But now Rhonda’s dead and I’d like for Kodama to respond to this.

I should have time to get online tomorrow, but probably not a ton. The same goes for Sunday, but I expect I’ll be able to be online at deadline time. The above makes me think Kodama could be scum and not just hidden miller, but I’d still prefer a Roderick lynch as when the two are compared individually I find Roderick scummier. Wilkinson should show his progress the next time be gets online.
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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

Post by Kodama N. on Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:20 am

So. I sincerely apologise about me not being able to post, but right now is the most time I have before deadline, so I will buckle down and respond to things/discuss/reads.

Ed S. wrote:So I found interactions between everyone/Rhonda. I obviously didn't analyze myself, so if anyone else wants to do so, feel free.

I shall analyze you for everyone.
Ed S. - If Ed is scum, that would mean that he bussed really hard, since he said he was “deadset” that Rhonda was scum. I realise that Ed hasn’t ever really posted a full read list while he has asked many other people to post theirs. (Ed, I would like you to post your read list.) When Ed firstly lynched Rhonda, what I understand, that it was a pressure lynch since she was on “Today at x:xxpm” and didn’t post anything. Ed never really said if it was a pressure vote or if he was going to stay on her. His reasons for his lynch on Rhonda was pretty scattered around in posts. Most of the bigger reasons were; A. Rhonda coming on, yet not posting. B. Rhonda buddying Mona. C. Him finding her scummy based on what she “didn’t” do (note: he never listed what those things were, and if Rhonda wanted to do what Ed wanted, Rhonda never could.) and D. He thought Rhonda said things that were already said/are obvious. (inb4 I listed all of the reasons). But all of these were scattered around, and never implied whether he was going to stay on her/unlynch. Although later in the day, he said he was “uncomfortable about unlynching Rhonda”, but before this, there was no hint. This comes to me as either A) A way to “secretly” stay on her and gain towncred, and he inspected her or B) Just didn’t realise his pressure vote on Rhonda, was a pressure vote and never realised/announced he was going to stay on her. But, at the end of day, Ed was the person who pushed a lynch on Rhonda the hardest.. This makes him a unlikely partner unless he thought Rhonda was the dead weight/wanted to gain towncred or thought that she was definitely town, so he pushed a lynch on her. Presently, least likely to be her partner.

Ed S. wrote:I almost brought up possibly No Lynching, but typing it out I realized how iffy an idea that was. If others have better reasons to support it, I'm open to hearing about it. (My thought was that it's likely the OS Vig has used their shot at this point, but that's a wifom case I don't want to deal with. Also it puts the game in the hands of the Vig, who from their perspective has a 50% chance of hitting scum.)

What we could do with NLing is that, we could NL and get the CV to shoot the person everyone wants lynched the most and we get more discussion time by having the CV perform the lynch at night. But this would have to mean that the OS Vig has shot (which is likely imo, since they could’ve won night 2, if CV and OS Vig shot a town), and of course, the person we decide to shoot is a Traitor (but, this is the same risk with lynching anyways.)

Ed S. wrote:GFDI WHAT DID MARIA SEE OTHER THAN HIM PUTTING IN EFFORT.

I still can’t get over this shot. I think that the CV should go along with the maj on who to shoot, otherwise the CV will be very outed. (unless the OS Vig has already shot, which I think is very likely, but it’s better to be safe than sorry.)

Ed S. wrote:Shifts plur of of Rhonda. No, he couldn't know Rhonda's alignment at this point. But Rhonda was, at this point, a possible inspection target (easy push if town, easy to postpone reads on/defend if scum). Was Kodama trying to  keep his intended inspect safe/hoping to gain Rhonda's favor by "saving" her?

I shifted plur off of Rhonda for the same reason (well, partially) you unlynched Rhonda late yesterday. You basically wanted to see her defence before you deadset wanted a lynch on her. This applied to what I wanted when I shifted plur off of her. Letting someone die without them posting, is sorta sad/unfair imo, and I didn’t want that to happen to Rhonda *cough* Muramusa *cough*.

Ed S. wrote:
Wilkinson A. wrote:Fuck making Day One Newspaper Readslists!
Yeah, thanks. This still pisses me off. It's more likely to come from scum still, in my opinion.

iirc, no one really discussed this with me whenever I brought this up, but I’m still not sure whether he was trying to imply; A) “Oh, you made a ‘newspaper readslist’, I hope you get lynched!” or either B) “Ha! I hate making readslists day 1, fuck them!” Obviously, the 2nd one is more likely, but A is more scummier, and is still a possibility.

Ed S. wrote:If everyone can give their reads on Roderick and why they read him as such when they get online, it would be helpful. I want to see if anyone knows what Maria saw that made her not think he's scum, because I'm not seeing it.

My reads will be later in my post.

Ed S. wrote:Um…right now this sounds like you’re admitting to twisting her words. If you mean something else, could you explain?

Well, what I meant is, what you two thought I was “twisting Mona’s words around” is actually what I interpreted of what Mona said. Sorry about the confusion w/ the wording.

Ed S. wrote:You propose that Wilkinson inspected Rhonda and bussed. As you mention, this is unlikely (I think if Wilkinson is scum, he inspected a partner+hidden miller and came to a false conclusion). Could you go into more detail with this? Your comment seems vague, kind of like, “Oh, well he could have done this but probably didn’t, and I’m not sure which is more likely.” Which do you believe is more likely, and where would you put him in your reads right now?

I think Wilkinson inspecting Rhonda is less likely. I don’t think scum would bus so carelessly as to make it a one-liner lynch on a partner. I would think that scum would give more reason to it, so that they gain more towncred when they turn out scum.
My reads will be later in this post.

Ed S. wrote:By the way, Kodama, you mentioned at EoD yesterday that plurality would be on you if you unvoted Rhonda, which wouldn't be true-it'd still be on her. I understand paranoia about Rhonda shifting though. On the other hand, you wanted to do to pressure Wilkinson-what would you have hoped to accomplish by pressuring him so late into the day?

What I meant by plur would be on me is that, Rhonda could be a guest waiting for someone to unlynch her and then she could easily shift plur onto me as no one else was on and no one would be able to save me. I wanted to pressure Wilkinson in hopes of explaining his lynch on Rhonda more, and make sure he wasn’t just going with the majority and trying to blend in.

Roderick S. wrote:Reads

ED S.( leaning scum)
-it may not be obvious but you are really trying to avoid a Wilkinson lynch who is scum in my eyes. so you been tryna push me over him
and your response to wilkinson coming on is really weak in my opinion and the fact you unlynch your scum read just so they can explain themeselves

Wilkinson A.(scum)
-first off, hes really scummy, i already explained how he can be the os vig and the quick bandwaggon i likely seem him being ed s. partner

Kodama(town)
i read him as tonw beacause his post as i said but the fact that i feel like he is being honest and he is continuously catching up rather then lurking for one and Not leaving anything out. also i getting town vibes from him also. one of his post that made me think that he is prob town is

Mona(leaning Town read)
really by process of elim

1. Ed never was avoiding a Wilkinson lynch. He even unlynched Rhonda cause of Wilkinson’s hasty vote.
2. You can’t just say, Oh since x is scum and I think y is trying to not lynch x, they must be scum!
3. I don’t get your reasoning on my town read. Honestly, I think I haven’t been the most towny, and to have you put me as your top town read makes it weird.
4. Honestly, I see this as another Anita (refer to Game 29) situation, where I think Roderick thinks he’s going to be lynched today and he just wants to frame me, or I am the hidden miller and he’s trying to obviously try to get attention off of me.
5. Reading someone because of PoE isn’t the best way to town read someone. As I said, it’s probably my playstyle of how many scumreads/townreads I have but you literally have no reasons at all for your Mona read. And even though you used PoE on Mona, it’s still a “leaning” town read. If you think Ed and Wilkinson are definitely scum then why is Mona, “leaning town” where she definitely has to be town if you think a Ed/Wilkinson scum team is in play?
Overall, this read list needs more explaining.

Mona L. wrote:I get that it's possible to simply interpret someone's words poorly. Except, that does not account for twisting around the chronology just so you could call me a hypocrite. I'm sure you remember that time you said I was trying to blend in by scumreading you, even though I had started the discussion about you? Even though nobody else actually said anything that pointed to you as a scumread? That's not simply a poor interpretation. And like I said, I believe Ed simply didn't interpret it the way I meant it, but you are so far off that I don't really believe it wasn't on purpose. Especially as you started using words I'd used against me. I talked about how you were trying to blend in and your response was basically "well you are trying to blend in" when I wasn't. That combined with the "misinterpretation" to me just screams scum.

1. Honestly dude how are my "excuses" any different from your poor internet "excuses"? It's honestly really shitty behaviour if you start lying about IRL things to benefit a mafia game imo. Which is why I would never lie about something like this. And also why my first instinct when people are being shitty with their activity is to assume that they have something IRL going on.

2. I've talked about this. You're putting way too much weight on the use of the word "should". I already lynched you before you even mentioned how it implied I wouldn't do anything about it (which is still a huge assumption over what word I used), so you could have known even before talking about it that I had already begun working on it. It's just really weird that you're still going on about something that wasn't even a thing anymore the first time you mentioned it.

3. I'm not sure what this is about? I lynched you because you behaved in a very scummy way. I realized you probably needed a sub, but regardless of that you had been acting suspicious. Rhonda had not acted that suspicious, the only thing really was her absence. Which at the point where I first lynched you was strange but not lynchworthy. Of course by the end of the day her silence while she wasn't absent had become lynchworthy.

4. Considering you're using past tense here I'm going to assume that you get that this assumption was not correct now. As I have also explained this. (You don't use past tense at point 2 so I'm assuming you still believe in that point)

I might have missed some things. I should be online for at least an hour. Don't know how long I'll be able to stay online after that but I think I saw Ed online so if you have anything to say please do.

As I said, that one time when I said you were trying to blend in with the majority, I misremembered. I thought that someone had already mentioned my shift on Mr. Honcho, I deeply apologise for my mistake and me trying to use that as one of my reasons to scumread you.

Replies to 1. to 5.

1. Exactly. You said it yourself. Lying about IRL things does not benefit a mafia game. I guess this supports both of our “excuses” to be real.
2. Yeah, I know you did work on it by lynching me and pushing it. I was talking about it, from the point you posted it, and tbh I shouldn’t dwell on a past point for way too long since we need to work on the present.
3. I swear you said you weren’t going to lynch Rhonda since she might’ve needed a sub. Ugh, my memory is so bad in these games, i dont even know why.
4. Yep, I saw your explanation and understood it.
Overall, she is quite towny in defending herself/proving her points. More shall be mentioned later in my reads..

From an outsiders perspective, I would definitely think myself + Roderick is the most likely scum team rn, mostly due to him townreading me for weird reasons and not explaining his weird reasons, him trying to shift lynches off of Rhonda and me not interacting with Roderick much. I can definitely agree with everyone’s (basically Ed and Mona) point on me + Roderick being a definite possibility. Although, I still definitely think I’m the hidden miller.

Yay. My Reads. If you’re asking why I’m posting my reads so early, it’s because I won’t have more time to make my reads.

Ed S. - As you probably have realised, most of my responding to things in this post is to Ed. Ed is the only person keeping this Game active, since now Maria is dead. He questions people a lot, which I find towny. Nearly every one of his posts are helpful towards the game, and either A) Clears things up, B) Asks things, C) Responds to things, D) Lists reasonings/reads or E) One or more of the above. This is an extremely towny thing to do, since, firstly, it takes up a lot of time, helps the game progress faster and with less confusion. But as I said, he really has never posted a full read list. His reasoning for his lynches are scattered around his posts, which is kinda hard to find the reasons for his lynches, especially all of the people he has lynched; was successful. As I said before, I would like a read list from Ed. Ed is the towniest player alive imo. Town From day 3 to day 4, he has remained consistent with being active/doing all of A-D, which is why he has went from Leaning town -> Town.

Mona L. - As I’ve said, her dedication in her posts while she is sick is still amazing imo. I don’t think scum would put this much dedication in. She answers every question pointed at her as well as she can and as quick as she can. I like how she worked on her “being passive and noncommittal” to make it better. From my last read on her, I’ve realised most of my reasons that I thought she was scum weren’t valid, which is why she’s higher on the list. Her content is very well, and I like how she defended herself of my accusations of her and her explanations. She rarely bring posts where people have mentioned things, which is sometimes hard to do, and I find this towny. Overall, she has become more towny in my books and I don’t think she’s scum at this point, besides her interactions with Rhonda, but that would have to mean they inspected each other, which all comes down to chance, so I feel like disregarding it completely. Leaning town

Roderick S. - A thing I noticed is that Roderick #2 might’ve been too lazy to read the whole game and saw his past player say Magnus is the towniest, so he decided to shoot Magnus. This is highly a big possibility. His first sub looked promising, ngl. He had reads, some reasoning and was excited to see more, but then he got inactive. I don’t know how or why his reads took a long time to “process”. Surely, wouldn’t reading the whole game, give you a good idea of your reads? and it doesn’t take more than a day to read everything. What I find towny about him is I like how he stays on for questions afterwards and he has reads; some of them with reasoning. But besides that, he has done nothing else towny. For example, the “I should have questioned him more”, him tunneling Wilkinson really hard, trying to not answer questions, didn’t explain all of his reads well, never explained why 1 out of Ed/Maria HAD to be scum and more reasons outweigh the only 2 towny things he’d done. By a lot. Roderick is my biggest scumread rn, idk why he’s townreading me, never really explained it. Not sure if he’s trying to buddy me, but if he flips Traitor, then I’m definitely Hidden Miller. Definitely Scum, so I shall Lynch Roderick S.. When I wake up, I’ll hopefully have time to read/respond to things.

Wilkinson A. - As I’ve said before, I still find Wilkinson #1 really scummy, but since this is a new Wilkinson, I won’t really use that very much and looking at his ISO, there isn’t much to say about him. In his first post, he said he was going to reply to the “notable” posts and shoot down the “less noticeable” ones. Shouldn’t you reply to all of them?? Are you only answering the ones you have an answer/towny answer to? I don’t like that his reads that he posted today, had no motive/reasoning behind them, but at least something is better than nothing (except his read on Ed). Yeah. I don’t get why he seems so worried about the choosing of the word “wagon”. I’m not sure if he’s just scum, making sure no one reads him because of his word choice or something but this seems weird to me. He hasn’t really done anything towny that has stood out to me. Scum.

Right now, my reads are Ed -> Mona -> Wilkinson -> Roderick

I’m sorry if this post was too long to read (you should be reading everything, anyways.), but if you prefer me posting every point in a seperate post, please tell me. Ugh, I want to get a higher post count than my last game, but I feel putting everything in one post is easier for me This took me a long time to make and took a lot of my leisure time out. I hope this clears things up and I will try as hard as possible to be active when I wake up, and respond/read everything.
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Kodama N.

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Re: Game 31: Separated Scum

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