Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

by Emmy A. Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:02 pm

Dr. Proctor wrote:Tbh i have no real excuse aside from myself just putting this off

Accurate to me.

Clara H. wrote:
As far as other actives, Jeremiah and Kimmy are fairly null, but Halsey has had some weird posts that strike me as scum

He claimed In a post that he understood why Cherry lynched Jeremiah because he read back and saw that it was a RL with RVS reasoning, not an actually scumread. He also said he only scumread Cherry because of what Emmy said about it. The problem with this is that it makes me think Hasley hadn't read the game yet. The biggest issue with this is that he made it AFTER his read list. Any smart town would read the thread before making a 3 post readslist? Anything else about Hasley has already been said, and it further strengthens my read

Clara, this is what I'm understanding to be the reasoning behind your read on Halsey. It came from earlier in day 1, and you later commented that you felt people were misunderstanding it. What did you think people were misunderstanding specifically and why not attempt to clear it up instead of just saying "No you're getting it wrong"?

Two pages is fun to read through. I still don't know how long I'll be on, but here we go.

by Caroline M. Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:13 pm

Unfortunately my dazzling schedule was too full today and so I won't be able to do much. I skimmed through all these massive posts and so I'll read them a bit more thoroughly later when I have more time and talk about stuff that I perhaps hadn't noticed now.

Halsey N. wrote:If I have already given thoughts on a situation that is the same on other posts, I will not comment on it.

Emmy A. wrote:What "evidence" do you suggest I find aside from my own reads? In terms of motivation, I don't see why town would, rather than trying to learn more about the people they scumread, simply add phrases such as "statistically more likely to be town" and "doesn't mean he has to be scum." Things like that basically turn your scumreads into null reads and does so in a way that it looks like you're trying to appear helpful while keeping your options open, which doesn't come from a town mindset.

Code:
Wait a sec. So you think he is scum just because of those null sided posts? The posts that you brought up that where scummy in your eyes were not null reads. That's a completely different reason than what you called him out on with that bullet point list

Your dazzling point can easily be dismantled when you realise emmy said "In terms of motivation" which shows that she was magnifying onto a specific aspect. Obviously the points that she stated previously weren't all to do with motivation and so it cant be that "just" those null sided posts make jeremiah scummy.

Halsey N. wrote:
Emmy A. wrote:
I'm confused with your paragraph on Anima. You say that you read her as scummier than anyone else, but in the same paragraph say that you felt her play was coming from a townie who didn't get how forum mafia works. (1) What indicated that it came from a townie specifically (as opposed to scum who didn't understand) and (2) why not just say that outright? The problem I have with your comment of being okay with her being lynched is that you did so while saying she was likely town. There was no active effort to lynch scum; it felt like passive "devil's advocate" play where you were trying to sheep the Anima wagon without getting any dirt on your hands for lynching her.

You comment that waiting around for someone to make a post that outs them as scum is pointless, which is true and is thus why you pressure people. I interpret what you were doing to be waiting around because I didn't see a lot of attempts to pressure people from you. Even with Cherry you made a comment of "This is a really weird slot, that I would appreciate more pressure on" but didn't question her yourself (which is another thing I have trouble seeing as coming from a town mindset). Meanwhile, the idea that people who are scummy are just town who got off to a bad start (if I'm interpreting you correctly) is something dependent on both the content and context of their post, and with Anima I definitely didn't (and still don't) understand why she decided to just respond with a bolded question mark and be intentionally vague. Lynching someone for the first scummy thing they do actually isn't what we did in this case; if it was Cherry would have been lynched. I apparently misinterpreted much of Cherry's early game play, and moved on to pressuring you and later Anima. Of the three, Anima's reaction to the pressure was by far the worst.

Code:
His comment was actually the opposite. He stated that you cannot hope that a mafia will slip

"you cannot hope that a mafia will slip" ~ Jeremiah (or words to that effect)

"You comment that waiting around for someone to make a post that outs them as scum is pointless, which is true and is thus why you pressure people." ~ Emmy

Clearly Emmy was fully aware that his comment was "you cannot hope that a mafia will slip" since she agreed that "waiting around for someone to make a post that outs them as scum is pointless. I guess this means we both cant read, not just me (which you accused me of below).

Halsey N. wrote:For the love of God, please let this be the last big post...

Caroline M. wrote:Just a few dazzling posts from day 1 i would like to clear up.

Halsey N. wrote:
Caroline M. wrote:
Anima V. wrote:?

I've been thinking about the dazzling significance of this post. Like why the dazzle would either scum!Anima or town!Anima just post a question mark and then just leave? We've seen the fact anima has come online quite a few times during the time she was inactive so its not like she's confused and is like "what just happened?" since it seems as if she was keeping up without actually posting. It could be that one anima was logging on without posting while the other anima didnt log on for a while, but it would make a lot more sense to tell us about it + produce a dazzling defense. The only dazzling explanation that seems to make a bit of sense to me is that a scum!Anima posted a question mark in the hope of inducing wifom. The problem is this wifom is still affecting me and I am still unsure on where to place my lynch. I thinking that since there are already like 3 lynches on Anima, I dont think my own lynch on her will be that useful since she's probs gonna get lynched via plur anyway. So perhaps I could lynch Shepherd as a way to pressure him to speak up day 2?

It's not pressure if outright blatantly stated. I also don't like that post. That last sentence feels like attempting to take towncred or fear of lynching him due to people questioning you for why you lynched him. Can you explain what is the benefit of stating that to begin with?

Also, you didn't answer my question, you just stated hypothetical situations that if they were to be real, would make me scummy. You never said I was scummy to begin with directly until now.

In terms of "fear of lynching him due to people questioning you for why you lynched him", my reason to lynch him is valid and dazzlingly clear which is demonstrated due to Kimmy not having any further questions after I elaborated further on my lynch suggestion. Emmy on the other hand simply said "but sooner or later Shepherd will have to either post of be subbed out" which I agreed with. Although it is true that a common way to get inactives to talk is to lynch them, in my case I have a valid reason to lynch him and so the lynch itself is simply a message to say that the reason I have given is lynch-worthy. Therefore blatantly stating that I want to lynch Shepherd for the pressure does not dilute the pressure in any way because the reason is still there and cannot be denied until he talks and defends himself.

Code:
Um no, just no. Define lynch worth imo because from all the stuff that happened day 1, you did not post a single lynch whatsoever. Your "dazzling" lynch has nothing to be backed upon for why you would even lynch to begin with thus your "lynch worthy" reason is invalid. Also if this was "lynch worthy" as you said, you would only be stating that your lynches are for pressure. That however contradicts what pressure is since pressuring someone is not meant to be stated. It's more like you're scared to outright pressure somebody without disrupting your "cotton soul" town figure and somebody calling you out on this that you just state what you intend to do so you do not run into this peculiar problem in the future.

What? I am not sure why you are on about me not lynching at all day 1. All I am saying is that my "pressure" lynch as you put it is backed up with the reasoning I talked about earlier in day 1. So the pressure isn't coming from the action of the lynch moreso than the actual reason I have to lynch him. It's like you are saying that me stating that my lynch will pressure him will just completely erase the dazzling reason I have to lynch him which is the foundation of the pressure. At the moment, you look like you are getting extremely frustrated about my "cotton soul town figure" to the point where you aren't taking the time to think about what I am actually saying. If my reason to lynch is not valid, then say so. Otherwise I don't see what your problem is because I have made it clear that my reasoning is what is putting the pressure and not the lynch per se. I believe I've done plenty of pressuring so far so I don't see why I would ever be scared to pressure Shepherd when I have already made a point against him.

Halsey N. wrote:
Caroline M. wrote:
I see why you may have felt that I didnt answer your question, I just thought you would have understood the answer because it's common sense that the only way you would cover someone up is if you had someone to cover (ie a hydra). Plus I made it fairly clear that your drive to help town progress is townie, which makes the message fairly clear that the hydra is suggesting the scum!Halsey.

Code:
pəˈteɪtəʊ/ - /pəˈtɑːtəʊ/. If you state that you believe that my hydra gives the stench of scum/is scum, since we are the same role and character, then I am scum to you/give the stench of scum. It's that simple so stop putting me off and lynch me if you believe so.

Oh my razzle dazzle can you actually start understanding what I am saying? The whole cover up idea banks on the fact you are covering for your hydra which means you must have a hydra for this idea to be valid. Therefore the fact that you have a hydra is suggesting a scum!Halsey. This does NOT mean your hydra is scummy.

Halsey N. wrote:
Caroline M. wrote:
Halsey N. wrote:
Caroline: So far Anima and Shepherd are my top 2 contenders for most likely to be mafia. Shepherd I have talked about and the fact that he has come on a couple more times doesnt help his case at all. Same thing can be said about Anima. Even though she went through the effort at the start to explain the scenarios for the dazzling fruit plan, its just as important for scum to know about them too in order to not fall for any of the traps. Although its true she could have just said it in the quicktopic at night, I dont think a scum!Anima would miss this opportunity to gain early towncred without having to press on with the scumhunting.

Caroline M. wrote:As far as lynches go, I am conflicted. I don't think Halsey should be lynched right now, I am certain he has more dazzling arguments to make, and I would like to give them some more time. But then we do need an alternative for the lynch, and the sheer ammount of posts here is honestly overwhelming me. I have also run out of time to reread so I'm afraid I can't make a good decision right now.

So um, I'm really confused about the conflicting nature of your posts like this one. I'm a little speechless atm tbh. Like if you think I'm scum, I'm sure getting rid of me vouches more than whatever argument I can procure since you know, you need to lynch scum for town to win????

Again, given the dazzling nature of this game, its not a stretch to see perhaps why there are some conflicting ideas in some of my dazzling posts. To put it simply, one hydra believes that the cover up is a possibility while the other believes that the cover up scenario is more likely. Also one hydra is keeping up with the game more than the other. Anyway like I said, because I am just sceptical that the plan was indeed "schemed" as you said, I am reluctant to townread you because of your contributions. However this doesn't mean I scumread you because I cant be certain that you really did just make this up. Which is why I am giving my reasons as to why I am sceptical so that we can get to the bottom of this.

Halsey N. wrote:
Also, how does my plan not having the intended effect of helping town in its exact goal discredit me?

Caroline: See thats the thing, it didnt really serve town. He got no solid conclusions from his dazzling "scheme" which is what sparked my initial thought that this probably wasnt schemed and instead just an attempt to cover up his partner. Idk maybe he could have used a less risky way to do it but this doesnt dimish any of the points that i have brought up against Halsey and so my dazzling argument till now still stands.

You're exactly right on that, not going to lie. However, that plan which came out of nowhere onto day 1 caused some interesting reactions between each player and if you notice, did cause a lot of players to comment on it and showed how various players scumhunted. Kimmy, Jeremiah, you, etc. It was useful for bringing that out if you want to debate the usefulness of it which I believe you might be in confusing about. It did not achieve the goal intended however.

Nonetheless, let's say this plan helped nothing whatsoever. I still executed it on the goal to help town, so would it failing outright label me as scummy? At the end it's all, "does the thought really count" type of question, but I dare say and in my opinion has been proved by what I stated and by the thread that this plan was not useless.

This post here confirms to me that my intention is being misunderstood. I am not saying that not achieving the intended goal discredits you straight away, I am saying that it was what first gave me the idea that you could have just made this up to cover up for your hydra which made me sceptical of your scheme. As if this truly was a cover up, only then would it discredit you. I simply can't know for certain if you did this with town intention or not so it could have just been that all the reactions gained from it were side effects that happened to help town (since you made it fairly clear that it wasnt your intended goal). Anyway I will summarise all the points that I have that makes me sceptical of your "scheme".

The timing of the reveal meant you didnt give enough time to get a solid scumtell from it yet you still decided to say that it was your plan that made you identify cherry as a scumread. Yet in the same post the reason you gave for the scumread on cherry didnt match what you were looking for in your plan. All this gives the idea that you made up this plan haphazardly to cover for your hydra and then immediately tried to turn it against Cherry. Another point that could back this up is his backtracking of the cherry scumread and talked about how "everybody making a big deal out of it warped my consensus". This indicates that his initial scumread on Cherry was just him sheeping the consensus rather than the work of his plan.

Code:
So 10 hours wasn't enough for anything of importance to come up at all??? I call bs on that since stuff did come up. What if I were to have given it 24 hours? The bad thing with that is that it would disrupt the game and land it into confusion for a lot of time meaning it would digress and not be at the point which it is now. Also the fact that I thought what had been produced in those 10 hours was good enough for me because of Cherry's lynch on me, so I had no reason to extend the reveal of the plan compared to the negatives which I stated above. I wasn't going to do that anyways since the negatives are too much compared to the positive, but I am explaining that hypothetical scenario you attack me so much for not doing it so there it is.. Sadly, due to misunderstanding the intent/execution for why Cherry lynches the way he/she does which I already stated alot of times, this made the intended goal of the plan null.

I am just...dazzled. Misreading again and again and again jeez. Pay attention to the words "you didnt give enough time to get a solid scumtell from it". This does not mean that nothing of importance came up. But like I said previously, those things of importance that did come up may have just been side effects that happened to help town. What you said also doesnt explain why your detailing of your plan and the reason you scumread Cherry don't match up despite being in the same post. Even if you misunderstood Cherry's intentions which made the intent of the plan null, this doesnt explain why you say you used your plan to find out that Cherry was scum yet said a reason that doesn't match up with that your plan was looking for.

Halsey N. wrote:
Caroline M. wrote:
It also involved being able to differentiate between hydras which means you basically have to guess if 1 or 2 users are on the account or whether the slight difference in posting styles is just one user which can be affected by emotions more easily (i.e aggressive cherry). This coupled by the fact it was in early day 1 where posting styles havent really been developed perhaps by both users seemed like an odd time to deploy this scheme especially since a hefty component of the plan is via hydra differentiation**. This, in addition to the flaws emmy pointed out, demeans the suggestion that this plan was well thought out and arises the possibility that it was actually a haphazard way to cover for his hydra.

Code:
Um, everybody had posted by that time a decent amount of posts if you didn't notice. I was also not going to detain the plan just because some users decided not to post. Like I said, prolonging the plan which caused confusion to begin with wouldve caused even more confusion if posted later within the day due to scumhunting already having gained ground (Cherry v. Jeremiah). I did not want to disrupt the scumhunting and if I had posted it later, it would disrupt what would be at that time, good scumhunts most likely and I did not want to hinder town. I even thought of an even worse scenario when I thought up of this plan. The Jeremiah vs. Cherry scumhunt would most likely gain a foundation compared to how premature it was when I enacted my plan. If other scumhunts were to begin as well and even worse, gain a foundation, then the plan would not have that much of an impact. By that time, people would most likely have their reads (trs and srs) and I began to doubt my plan would not bait in what I thought was a sure fire way to bait in mafia because at that time, mafia most likely wouldve had their trs and srs (which their hydras would most likely follow to stay in character by that time). A mafia would essentially get their srs out of the way and then prey on me because if enacted later, I would have no ground to stand on meaning my whole plan would be useless and I would just be a dead corpse with no contributions.

**I understand that if it indeed was planned, then a reason why it was deployed day 1 is to stir up more discussion and accelerate the games development. However if it really was thought out properly, Halsey should have realised the exceeding dependence on hydra differentiation and adapted the plan to solve this problem and make it fit better in a day 1 situation.

Code:
I repeat, my plan was flawed because I did not think Cherry's reason to lynch was lynching out of something that was scummy, but rather lynching who he/she thought was scum. Although that begs the question which just throws everything into a loop, why did Cherry not lynch Anima which was basically a worse version of me (ofc I am stating the first perspective in how somebody would see me before i revealed the plan

I don't mean that you should change when you deploy the plan since I agree that a plan day 1 would stir up discussion and bait out early reactions well without interfering too much with the acceleration of the game. What I am saying that if this dazzling plan is indeed well thought out then I would have expected you to adapt this plan and what you are trying to find to suit day 1 since it's the intended day to be deployed. But since it felt so prone to flaws, it makes the plan feel made up on the spot to dazzlingly cover up for your hydra. For instance, you incorrectly deduced Cherry's hydra differentiation when you said stuff about aggro cherry and more sense of humour cherry. We know its incorrect because you yourself said that Cherry was most likely solo play a few posts earlier.

Halsey N. wrote:
Caroline M. wrote:
Anyway I asked you a couple of questions to clarify what you mean when you said "when she asked the weird question" I asked which question are you referring to? I also asked what which post did you refer to the fact you "warped your consensus". I also decided to count how many times you asked the "scum due to hydra or not hydra" question and I only found one instance. Not sure where you got the 3 times from (perhaps i miscounted?) but it dazzles me that when I don't directly seem to address your question you go crazy about it, yet you don't seem to pay attention to all my posts (no matter how small these questions are).

Code:
That weird question was the one you thought you had explained, but I stated you didn't and now in this post you stated that it was implied. (basically, control f the following in that white box if this post didnt make sense)

Spoiler:

Code:
Also here are the times (Chicago) if you name tag me: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:10 pm Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:51 pm Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:06 pm Finally, I already answered the question that I bolded. I stated so many times that I was quickreading the game to catch up since it was alot and Cherry's posts in my head must have gotten with Emmy's so I inferred that Cherry lynched due to thinking that an individual was scum. Maybe you should read better because I have already responded to this and have stated the question post I referred to (which if you control f those times after switching to the chicago timezone, you will see to what I referred to).

Sorry I wont be able to do that because everytime i try to access your ISOs it says "the page is blocked by an order of the high court" for some reason. (If you dont believe me ask AJ I even sent him a screenshot). So would you be so dazzling and kind as to quote those instances for me please.

by Emmy A. Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:04 pm

This post is mostly a word vomit, stream-of-consciousness thing since I didn't want to do a ton of jumping around to edit due to still being pressed for time.

Shepherd D. wrote:
Emmy A. wrote:Actually, wait. Shepherd, you said "my partner." Was there a reason you yourself weren't able to send fruit?

It was more of a quicktopic issue. My partner was inactive and subbed out, and the sub happened when I was AFK, and thus we were never able to agree on a mutual fruit target. Thus I'd like to know if Caroline got fruit.

Edit: I'd also like to note that Doctor Proctor has been incredibly inactive today. Is there a reason for this? Where's the Doc?

Okay, but did you see a reason to not go with the fruit circle? If your sub disagreed you could have talked it out later.
Pretty sure that at the time you posted this day hasn't been going on for that long (I have too many tabs open at the moment to find the time Day 2 started at). Given your activity level, I find it a bit odd for you to call him out on that.

Shepherd D. wrote:I also find it odd that both of the Infernando heads have been somewhat inactive this game. Is there any reason for this? I'd love to scroll back and give my reads but I can't scroll and type at the same time. I'll open up Notepad and give you my bulky read paragraph later today.

Again, both of your heads also were inactive. Unless I missed it, you never explained your own activity.

Jesus Caroline, chill with the dazzling wallpost. ~~Question: what is there specifically that supports the chance of Halsey's reaction test being a cover-up, aside from the mere possibility of it existing?~~ This got answered in the paragraph after I wrote it. I'd consider Cherry's reaction of switching her lynch to Halsey to be sufficient for the purpose of creating discussion, and at a certain point it flat-out looks like a poor attempt at a caveat if you show up at, for example, L-1, with "But wait! It was a trap all along!" That said, your comment on how he gives a different reasoning the same post is something I will look back at (I won't be on long enough currently to check this).

I think AJ randomizes a lynch if nobody votes. If we actively vote for "No Lynch" specifically nobody dies. Otherwise mylo would be a tense situation, to put it mildly.

As Caroline said to Clara already, how does scum Shepherd needing to discuss fruiting instantly correlate to being scum, especially when he apparently did nothing at all? I'm not understanding that part, the whole thing in itself is in my opinion Shepherd being unaware of anything going on and being affected by having a sub/being inactive. Put another way, I still don't see why it benefits Shepherd as scum to do nothing at all. Also, what does this mean for Infernando, who either sent fruit to nobody or to Kimmy?

I disagree with myself on a number of things; I attempted to help myself last night but for the most part I was kind of just like, "Read the thread." One thing I certainly disagree with is the townread on Infernando, the lack of killing and fruiting is not only probably a case of not reading/misreading (like Shepherd) but Infernando himself is claiming to fruit to Kimmy, meaning that if he's scum he still wouldn't have been able to kill.

I agree with the read on Clara but not the reasoning. I still feel that Clara's play has been trying to stay under the radar and that their day 1 was largely an agenda-based push on Halsey. I think she's been slightly better today though with how she's interacting more with her scumread. I'm also liking Clara more after her response to Halsey on page 18, as it gives more explanation for her read on him/shows an effort to interact with him that wasn't present Day 1/her full explanation on why someone hastily giving a readlist would be scum-indicative, since prior I felt that she was trying to throw out buzzwords of a sort. One thing I do wonder still though is that if that was all one person, why the switch from "Halsey skimmed the game" to "Halsey read the second half of the game"?

Agree on the Halsey read. His posts have continued the trend of trying to move town forward while also explaining himself directly (without any attempts to twist things or beat around the bush). I forget if I mentioned it already, but I think the push to lynch him is based on a misinterpretation of his first few posts blown way out of proportion.

Slight scumlean on Shepherd based on his questioning the activity of others but not explaining his own inactivity Day 1. It's a form of hypocrisy and a notable one due to the timing of it, which makes it look like he's trying to redirect attention.

Caroline remains a townread for me, though I'd like to hear her opinions on some of the other players since from what I've read so far she seems focused today on only a couple.

I literally can't remember a single post right now from Dr. Proctor save the one he had at the end of Day 1.

Infernando remains a slight scumread due to the Day 1 hypocrisy (talking about how he dislikes his partner for being inactive/lynching and leaving/unlynching but then being inactive himself/unlynching and leaving/not replacing the lynch he was so upset about).

Pretty sure my thoughts on Jeremiah are clear at this point.

Kimmy remains a townlean for me; I don't see a lot from him today but his Day 1 interactions make me comfortable with leaving him as a townlean.

I'm neutral on Cherry, since much of her content Day 1 was focused around either Halsey or defending herself. I'd appreciate seeing her reads on others, and I think the new Cherry is going to do a lot to influence my thoughts on her.

Shepherd D. wrote:First off, Doctor Proctor is honestly either just a horrible player or trying to hide something. Did the person Doctor Proctor was supposed to fruit get fruit? Until they actually say something worth while, I'm going to lynch Doctor Proctor. This is directed towards Caroline: from what I could see d1, Cherry didn't actually respond to my question at first, and when she did, I didn't say anything about it because I frankly didn't see a need to. Infernando is a clear scumread for me as he's done absolutely nothing and the posts that can be seen above are clearly filler and a pitiful attempt at actually saying something to appear active, which they're not, and yet I'm lynching Proctor instead as his actions overall just irk me more. Caroline is a slight townread to me, though her overuse of the word "dazzling" gets me. Is that playing for towncred? I'm going to keep watching that as the game goes on. Emma is a clear townread from my view, as she has been incredibly active and given us her thoughts and reads from the start. I townread Clara (though maybe it's just because her avatar looks so innocent) but she's also just leaned town to me in a gut sort of way. Will give more reads later. If I haven't given a read on you in this paragraph, you need to be more active.

???

1. "First off, Doctor Proctor is honestly either just a horrible player or trying to hide something." Rude firstly, and secondly what makes you think he's trying to hide something/what do you think he's trying to hide? This theme is close to Vanilla

2. "Did the person Doctor Proctor was supposed to fruit get fruit?" This got confirmed in like the first post (or close to the first post) of Day 2.

3. "This is directed towards Caroline: from what I could see d1, Cherry didn't actually respond to my question at first, and when she did, I didn't say anything about it because I frankly didn't see a need to." Cherry definitely responded, in fact probably half of Day 1 was centered around that response. When you ask someone a question, it's generally expected that you're asking because you expect an answer and that you'll thus acknowledge said answer.

4. "Infernando is a clear scumread for me as he's done absolutely nothing and the posts that can be seen above are clearly filler and a pitiful attempt at actually saying something to appear active, which they're not..." Again, how are you going to call someone else out for this when you have precisely two posts in Day 1, neither of which add anything to the game and one of which was a question you apparently didn't care about the answer to?

5. "...and yet I'm lynching Proctor instead as his actions overall just irk me more." What about those actions? Heck, what actions?

6. "Caroline is a slight townread to me, though her overuse of the word "dazzling" gets me. Is that playing for towncred? I'm going to keep watching that as the game goes on." What does the word "dazzling" do to get someone towncred?

7. "Emma is a clear townread from my view, as she has been incredibly active and given us her thoughts and reads from the start." Activity in itself is not a sign of alignment, nor is being vocal.

8. "If I haven't given a read on you in this paragraph, you need to be more active." So, wait. You're refraining from giving reads on inactive people (and Halsey, Cherry, and Jeremiah are apparently "inactive" but you're fine with giving thoughts on Dr. Proctor and Infernando, who, if I recall, currently have the two lowest postcounts in this game bar yourself. scratch

Shepherd D. wrote:Going to reply to people's queries one by one. First off, I wanted to hear Cherry's thoughts to overall get reads on her. By I didn't need to reply, I mean that it was enough for me to merely read her thoughts, as I didn't see any need to question her about them. I never backed down, I just didn't feel the need to question Cherry any further.

<snip>
As to your queries on Doctor Proctor, due to his quick RVS at the start of day 1 and his lack of posting, it makes me think that either he's trying to hide being scum (without us noticing, of course) or he's just overall bad (I don't think this for any reason other than inactivity and lack of post relevance). I haven't read back too much into d1, so if Proctor was more active at this time I'd love it if someone could correc t me. Will go and gather more reads and answers in a moment.

So...what are those thoughts?

A quick RVS and lack of posting literally describes your Day 1 exactly.

Shepherd D. wrote:To Emmy: I have already stated that I didn't say Clara townread me, by townlean I mean they leaned town in my eyes. Please make sure you read all the info before criticizing.

You're also not in a position to be calling people out for this, considering that you apparently didn't see the comment that we got fruit from Dr. Proctor.

This is getting long-ish, so I'm posting it and continuing my reading.

by Halsey N. Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:13 pm

I came to read the game since I had some free time and was going to post later but Caroline's last post has frustrated me so much that I'm going to comment on it NOW.

(Also I stand corrected on your first two responses to that quote: Jeremiah and Emmy ones. I was a little tired so must've read them wrong)

Frustrated rant #1:

Code:: So 10 hours wasn't enough for anything of importance to come up at all??? I call bs on that since stuff did come up. What if I were to have given it 24 hours? The bad thing with that is that it would disrupt the game and land it into confusion for a lot of time meaning it would digress and not be at the point which it is now. Also the fact that I thought what had been produced in those 10 hours was good enough for me because of Cherry's lynch on me, so I had no reason to extend the reveal of the plan compared to the negatives which I stated above. I wasn't going to do that anyways since the negatives are too much compared to the positive, but I am explaining that hypothetical scenario you attack me so much for not doing it so there it is.. Sadly, due to misunderstanding the intent/execution for why Cherry lynches the way he/she does which I already stated alot of times, this made the intended goal of the plan null.

Caroline: I am just...dazzled. Misreading again and again and again jeez. Pay attention to the words "you didnt give enough time to get a solid scumtell from it". This does not mean that nothing of importance came up. But like I said previously, those things of importance that did come up may have just been side effects that happened to help town. What you said also doesnt explain why your detailing of your plan and the reason you scumread Cherry don't match up despite being in the same post. Even if you misunderstood Cherry's intentions which made the intent of the plan null, this doesnt explain why you say you used your plan to find out that Cherry was scum yet said a reason that doesn't match up with that your plan was looking for.

I freaking did and if you read the 2nd paragraph of that coded remark, you wouldn't have to said that...

Secondly, I also stated that I was not going to detain the plan because of inactives. The people that had been ACTIVE had already responded to the plan, so there was no reason to prolong the reveal.

Frustrated Rant #2:
Caroline: What? I am not sure why you are on about me not lynching at all day 1. All I am saying is that my "pressure" lynch as you put it is backed up with the reasoning I talked about earlier in day 1. So the pressure isn't coming from the action of the lynch moreso than the actual reason I have to lynch him. It's like you are saying that me stating that my lynch will pressure him will just completely erase the dazzling reason I have to lynch him which is the foundation of the pressure. At the moment, you look like you are getting extremely frustrated about my "cotton soul town figure" to the point where you aren't taking the time to think about what I am actually saying. If my reason to lynch is not valid, then say so. Otherwise I don't see what your problem is because I have made it clear that my reasoning is what is putting the pressure and not the lynch per se. I believe I've done plenty of pressuring so far so I don't see why I would ever be scared to pressure Shepherd when I have already made a point against him.

You said at first in day one that you would lynch him to pressure him. You see, the key word is 'to". That means the lynch was an action to pressure. It wasn't until day 2 where you gave a reason to actually lynch to which in effect, pressures him. You see the difference there? They are both very different.

Some Stuff that is not frustration:
Caroline: We know its incorrect because you yourself said that Cherry was most likely solo play a few posts earlier.

Ok so how do you suppose I "adapt" my plan to this. This was revealed when Aj announced the subs and when I saw the offline post which was then deleted (also by the fact that Cherry posted some new if really terrible reads). By that time, day 1 had already ended. There is no way to adapt the plan if the plan is already revealed. How could I ever compensate for subs at all if this was the case? I couldn't do that, but since I was the only one subbed in at that time, I hoped the active users at least didn't need subs, so I went with it. I already stated why I did not enact the plan later so that thought is out of the question also. Then when the 10 hours had passed, pretty much everybody that was active had posted and I find it hard to believe that other users had the possibility of being active to begin with since that was alot of time and I didn't want to keep prolonging the pllan for reasons already stated, so I went from what I had.

Also, idk if you twisted my words or not, but this plan wasn't just for Cherry. I had already explained as well after finishing my 1st time journals (reads).

Frustrated rant #3

Well Aj corrected my hide tags and changed it to spoilers (although I later posted them as a backup if you had actually read), so if you screenshot him, you should be able to access the ISOs now.

I mean, I even answered your small questions and you accused me of not answering them. It turns into exaggeration when you most likely didnt even read the 2nd paragaph of the part I stated above. I mean, you're not the only one that is getting frustrated by this since I feel I have explained myself well. Even Kimmy was able to refer you the question that I had asked you (that being the 4th time actually) and you didn't even respond to that.

It might be daring to ask this, but how are you actually reading my posts or the game in itself?

Are you only focusing on what you believe has worthiness of your posts because you've addressed little to none with players such as Jeremiah, Kimmy, Proctor, Infernando, etc (this also includes their posts throughout the game).

Are you reading my posts word for word or are your eyes like a sonar only focusing on something and then immediately going into alert mode?

Well I spent on this more than I need to an am behind schedule irl now.

Well in a nutshell, we need to find a better way to communicate because we are both really frustrated from what I can tell.

Although most of your misreading posts I already answered with what I perceive to be the right way of responding to what you are looking for. I feel you are assuming parts of my plan before I even explain how they actually function thus, your idea of what the plan "actually" is to what the plan "actually" is might be conflicting and thus, we both perceive your posts and my posts differently and respond differently to them (like you expect me to answer some ways but I don't and that frustrates you)

Well idk if you got what I explained in that last paragraph. It's a little confusing for me to summarize/explain since it goes so many ways (well if you understand the main idea of the paragraph above this).

Well I have to go now, I'm 22 min behind schedule just because of this and I had to answer it (it kept annoying me and made me not think straight). I'll keep adding to that chain of posts I had going on yesterday until I am fully caught up.

by Emmy A. Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:18 pm

Have more word vomit. I have to go offline, but should be back to read the rest in 1 hour at most.
As a note to myself, I've currently read up to Halsey's 100th post.

Shepherd D. wrote:
Dr. Proctor wrote:I have quite a few thoughts about the game and what have been said so far. However, I don't have the time to type it all right now - so do expect some posts in about 16 hours or so. See you then.

You wanted reasons, you got 'em.

Pretty sure I've talked about why him not posting in exactly/i] 16 hours doesn't mean anything. I like how you didn't quote the post where he did give his thoughts on a few of the players near the end of Day 1.

Shepherd D. wrote:Ah, the glare. I admit it was my fault as after I prodded my other head to see if they were there, when they didn't reply I overall just forgot to send in my action. I assure you a fruit will be sent to Caroline tonight.
Unless I've missed a plan to turn this into Semi Nightless, we're not doing a circle tonight.

Shepherd D. wrote:On a side note, why would scum possibly even consider killing? Unless they got lucky and people screwed up their actions, killing and refusing to fruit clearly outs scum. That kind of self-sacrifice just doesn't make any sense logically.
Yes, this is kind of why we did a fruit circle to begin with.

Jeremiah showing up to just ask Kimmy if he got fruit and not responding to the earlier post about him makes me sad, but I guess it's possible that was the other head.

Shepherd D. wrote:I was just about to post about Cherry's lack of activity in day 2 then she returned. Good for that. I'd love to see your opinions on my reads as most people so far have said the same thing. Poking Emmy and Charlotte for this reason. As well, scratch the townlean on Emmy, I don't like her slightly off-topic comments "Love the broken quoting system of this. Come on aj, fix your thread" and the agreeing mostly with what Clara and Caroline have said d2. Emmy's a null read now, as well as Clara (will give reasoning for this later). I still slightly townread Caroline due to her asking good and relevant questions and despite the continuous "dazzling" filler.

And for god's sake Doctor Proctor come SAY SOMETHING!
Your original reasoning for the townread on me wasn't that great, but I also don't see why three lines should shift your read on someone to null. I also don't like your reasoning for your Caroline townread-anyone can ask questions and the "dazzling" is about as fillery as using the enter key every so often.

Emmy A. wrote:Wtf Unlynch Jeremiah W. Lynch Shepherd D.
Don't do this me, me. I don't know which of the two is scummier. Most likely once I finish reading everything I'm switching back to Jeremiah since I don't like how Jeremiah has yet again gone inactive at a time when the attention has conveniently moved to another player.

Cherry P. wrote:
Emmy A. wrote:
-As mentioned yesterday you have a number of scumleans but go on to vote none of them. You back off on your Anima read with no clear indicator of what motivated the opinion shift, and even in the post where you list her as your strongest scumread you include the caveat of "there's a good chance statistically that she's a townie" and that becomes your reasoning for not lynching her (and then you still go on to say "I am not opposed to an Anima lynch").
this isn't relevant to me but i'd like to pitch in. Reading this post and seeing your opinion of jeremiah's reasoning reminds me of the original lynch I placed in him in the first place. What I mean by this is that jeremiah was likely saying that anima [i]could be scum due to her general uselessness/whatever else he said, but there's still potential that she's just displaying harmful/overwhelmed townie behavior. Since anima didn't really respond after being pressured whatsoever, it also showed that lynching her wasn't really that big of a loss because it wouldn't really have much of an effect overall. I think jeremiah was attempting to send that message across (correct me if i'm wrong, jeremiah).

The problem I have with Jeremiah's play is that it gives him a way to support the Anima lynch and say "Yes she's a good lynch" without actually lynching Anima and potentially recieving ire for a mislynch. He did this in his Kimmy read as well. What Jeremiah did specifically was expressing a scumlean on her but later saying she was probably town because of statistics, basically shifting her read on her around the time it became clear she was going to be lynched. This is different from saying she "could" be either alignment. Also, what's your read on Halsey currently based on the questions you asked him?

[quote="Halsey N.]Yet you weren't sure of Anima and lynched anyways. So much for sticking with your guts.. Also, you havent pressured anybody at all unless said person is called Cherry and you didn't even do much of that. Your pressure was only your reason for not unlynching and everything else was asking for clarification towards Cherry.[quote:6b9a="Shepherd D."]or Jeremiah? Because the section you quote above it is something Jeremiah said, but he also never lynched Anima. If it's directed at me, do you think my votes on Jeremiah and Anima weren't intended for pressure?

Shepherd D. wrote:Emmy- Overall, I don't like that fact that you're taking advantage of my minor slip-up last night. You don't have many scumreads, and as you're suddenly so concerned about me, you really seem desperate to find reads. Can you explain this sudden shift without using things you've already said? "Kimmy states Cherry has a dazzling plan. Kimmy has wall posts between page 10-16 which I will consider recent. Please. Do I really have to also scumread Jeremiah because my hydra thinks so." Wow,
hydra fight? As stated in my previous post, I don't think that hydra battles are alignment indicative, but I find it odd that the one thing you seem to agree on is scumreading me. Unless you're both just mentally linked, I feel that if, for instance, you were scum, it would make sense for one head to lynch me and the other head to realize "oh, this is an easy lynch, I'll stick with it." As this lacks concrete evidence I'm not using it as a scumtell, just pointing it out as I found it
somewhat suspicious. Then you go on to type a bulky paragraph... first off, "?????????????????????????????????????????????????????" unnecessary much? I feel like you can get your point across without spamming a row of question marks. And then after that, you seem to use this one paragraph I've written to completely shift your read on me. Wow, that was quick. And maybe even unnecessary!? You then go on to post the eye rolling emote, which honestly just seems more like a put-down to my
entire thought process than an actual piece of evidence. Now, I realize that in my last post I myself put down my previous statemtents, but I still find this tiny little tidbit unnecessary, though it's probably just me being nitpicky. And then you end your post by... changing the subject completely and mentioning that you can't read a post due to formatting? Wow! That's really important and totally not filler! I don't like any of this. If you'd like, I'll go back and get you all more
proof, but for now I think it's perfectly safe to lynch Emmy. I realize this was a quick shift, but frankly, now that I've actually taken some time to read, it makes sense. Feel free to poke me if you need to question anything. I'd be happy to find more proof for you.

1. "Overall, I don't like that fact that you're taking advantage of my minor slip-up last night." I'm pretty sure I said not too long ago that I found your lack of doing anything not indicating alignment.

2. "You don't have many scumreads, and as you're suddenly so concerned about me, you really seem desperate to find reads." I'm pretty sure I've expressed multiple scumreads on multiple occasions, including Jeremiah, Anima, Infernando, and Clara. Obviously people are going to suddenly start paying attention to you when your entire Day 1 is next to non-existent, so I don't see where you're getting the idea that I'm "desperate" for reads.

3. "Wow, hydra fight? As stated in my previous post, I don't think that hydra battles are alignment indicative, but I find it odd that the one thing you seem to agree on is scumreading me." It is now. What do you find alignment indicative about that, especially given that there are a number of other things we disagree on (Infernando comes to mind)?

4. "Unless you're both just mentally linked, I feel that if, for instance, you were scum, it would make sense for one head to lynch me and the other head to realize "oh, this is an easy lynch, I'll stick with it." As this lacks concrete evidence I'm not using it as a scumtell, just pointing it out as I found it somewhat suspicious." Or the other head can move the lynch back to Jeremiah and it's at this moment debating what to do. You say you find it suspicious but not a scumtell-these are two mutually exclusive things, which is it?

5. The portion where you case shade for the question mark line and eye-rolling emote honestly feels like you're cherry picking (Hey look, name pun!) to find things to support your lynch. If you want to talk about rapidly shifting opinions, you had me as town not to long ago, didn't you?

6. "I realize this was a quick shift, but frankly, now that I've actually taken some time to read, it makes sense." Yes, it was a very quick shift. No, it doesn't make sense. Half of the things you bring up are non alignment-indicating, and the other half isn't supported by anything in the thread.

Halsey N. wrote:So two things I want to state. Emmy right here is being very contradictory here. First of all Emmy, you stated that he had done less (well dare say) than Proctor, but here you are, praising him for posts that are basically similar to what he has done. Also the fact that you also said you would lynch Anima in order to pressure WHICH WAS what I forgot that other day when writing my post. You basically did the same thing Caroline did and then you questioned Caroline for it. Although you are calling Jeremiah for what he said during the Anima thing which I agree that giving yourself layaway like that is scummy, then you conclude as a whole that you dislike what Jeremiah has been doing an I'm not liking that one bit...

At the time Jeremiah made some posts in which he was questioning people, presumably attempting to pressure and/or interact with them, and I wanted to see where he took this. As mentioned earlier, he didn't really take it anywhere, which shifted my opinion on these questions and caused me to see them as Jeremiah just trying to seem like he was scumhunting but still not giving any concrete opinions. I question Caroline for asking us if she should lynch Shepherd as opposed to just lynching him without asking us, since I didn't see why our opinion should affect what she did with her lynch.

Halsey N. wrote:Wait a sec. So you think he is scum just because of those null sided posts? The posts that you brought up that where scummy in your eyes were not null reads. That's a completely different reason than what you called him out on with that bullet point list

It's not different. I called him out on using phrases that let him back off on a scumread if it benefits him. That overall makes a read null such that he can still choose to swing either way on it using the caveat as a reason (such as if he hypothetically said "You know what, I'll townlean Kimmy. That thing he said doesn't necessarily mean scum.")

[quote="Halsey N.]His comment was actually the opposite. He stated that you cannot hope that a mafia will slip

And I went on to say that this was true and is why you pressure people.

Halsey N. wrote:It's the fact that he promised to post on a specific deadline that irks me. It must have meant that he went through the trouble of keeping that section in the schedule clean. From his post, it seems that he was overloaded by the info and did not post as much. What irks me again though is that he stated "he had thoughts about the game" which meant he most likely read the whole game or even more likely, skimmed it.

Maybe I should rephrase my question. If I'm Dr. Proctor (as either alignment), how does it benefit me to intentionally make a promise I can't keep? It blatantly obvious that once I don't follow through I'll attract unwanted attention, so once I say I'm going to give a post in 16 hours I'm going to do anything I can to make sure I have that post made within 16 hours. I have no reason to intentionally postpone it.

Halsey N. wrote:
He pretty much stuck with the Jeremiah as scum consensus since he went out of his way to read Jeremiah's posts and add a scummy viewpoint to some stuff that was scummy but that nobody had touched. The stuff he talked about (think about it guys) would be really hard to point out in a myriad of posts that to most, had arguably much more impact at the time. Also the fact that he even mentioned that stuff in the first place compared to his post about Cherry is what irks me. He went out of his way to just post this.

Dr. Proctor bringing up things nobody had touched is what I was referring to regarding originality. He did say he was running low on time when he made the post (supported by the fact that it was late), so in that case it would make sense that the first person on the list would have a lot of detail, the second person would have less, and so on. Again, how does it benefit Dr. Proctor as either alignment to hastily make a post like that with the full knowledge that people will be expecting more from him later?

Halsey N. wrote:
I mean, he basically chose the safest of people to call out something scummy (that were not dead) from after deciding to leave me out of his post. The fact that Cherry and Jeremiah were pretty much 1v1, I feel like he sided with one player and dumped the other.

OHHHHHHH. I'm seeing what you mean here now.

by Emmy A. Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:19 pm

Shepherd D. wrote:I have a lot to say about Jeremiah but too tired to type it all out right now, will do it when I'm a little more awake

I'm holding you to this and I'm waiting until you do this before I consider switching my lynch back to Jeremiah.

It seems "I" am having trouble with quoting. Just put the things outside of the brackets as a whole (as opposed to in the quotation marks). Very Happy

I get this feeling that Doc-Proc is town based on his explanation of why he didn't comment on Anima (it seems extremely transparent).

@Halsey, Cherry posted new reads? When was this?

by Emmy A. Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:21 pm

Knew I left something unfinished.

I get this feeling that Doc-Proc is town based on his explanation of why he didn't comment on Anima (it seems extremely transparent). The problem is that his most recent posts seems like a lot of commentary/information as opposed to analysis and I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out where his opinions lie currently.

by Dr. Proctor Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:24 pm

OK! Time to get to work finding that scum! BEWARE OF INCOMING WALLPOSTING!!!! This could take awhile disecting this thread tho tbh. Idt i can iso either making this extra annoying. (why isnt this a thing yet aj????? and if it is why cant i find it ; Wink

. Regardless imma be reading through alla dis.

by Emmy A. Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:36 pm

It's a thing. Click the names in AJ's "Alive" tag in the first post.

by Halsey N. Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:39 pm

Read the game since I had free time again. I'm so freaking sure that Cherry made some reads unless they were deleted.
Cherry can you confirm that for me or atleast post it again (it was def the new sub)

(Kimmy said he rather not comment on his own post that was deleted, btw Kimmy, your post was deleted because it took place after aj declared the end of day 1 so post it again imo)

f not, I mustve confused with somebody else.

Nonetheless, I feel like I need to refresh on the game so I'll post in some hours later actually. Going to relax my brain a little in the meanwhile.

The timing of the reveal meant you didnt give enough time to get a solid scumtell from it yet you still decided to say that it was your plan that made you identify cherry as a scumread. Yet in the same post the reason you gave for the scumread on cherry didnt match what you were looking for in your plan.

Also need to look into what the heck you mean by that Caroline. I'll be back in some hours. ugh

by Emmy A. Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:43 pm

You may be referring to Infernando? I'm not sure; I know both he and Cherry made posts after the deadline. Infernando thought we could talk here at night for some reason, Cherry was basically saying "Hey, I'm a sub."

by Dr. Proctor Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:05 pm

(figured out the iso thing btw before seeing your post. thanks though emmy)

by Dr. Proctor Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:07 pm

ON ANOTHER NOTE: Shepard is mean tbh

by Shepherd D. Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:16 pm

Apologies, I misread Emmy's heads. I thought that they had both been working together in the most recent wallposts. Forgive me. It's worth noting that when I pointed at you as town, I was short on time and had been merely skimming over posts, not getting into the grit of them enough. Also, I do realize that I still haven't given info on Jeremiah yet, will do that in just a moment. "1. "Overall, I don't like that fact that you're taking advantage of my minor slip-up last night." I'm pretty sure I said not too long ago that I found your lack of doing anything not indicating alignment. " Again, this was based on the comments your other head made, which were clearly designating me as a harsh scumread, not NAI. Overall, with this post, I'm going to note that I was only reading from one head and not both. Thus, I don't feel it logical to continue lynching Emmy, as this makes half of my argument irrelevant regardless. Unlynch Emmy.

by Shepherd D. Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:18 pm

Dr. Proctor wrote:OK! Time to get to work finding that scum! BEWARE OF INCOMING WALLPOSTING!!!! This could take awhile disecting this thread tho tbh. Idt i can iso either making this extra annoying. (why isnt this a thing yet aj????? and if it is why cant i find it ;. Regardless imma be reading through alla dis.

Looking forward to seeing this wallpost, may reconsider my thoughts quite a bit if it's reasonable Exclamation

by Cherry P. Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:45 pm

ive been busy, post ideally coming tomorrow, might look at anima associations if i'm not lazy

by Dr. Proctor Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:47 am

Quoting and formatting all of this is a pain so deal with my crappy formatting >_>
Imma just put in quotations anything i deem quoteworthy or points i wanna bring up. If you guys really need the location of a quote i'll go back and find it for you.
After about two and a half hours of reading/typing (off and on tbh)

Clara H.-NULL (THANK THE LORD THIS IS A SHORT ISO, I DONT HAVE MUCH LEFT IN ME). (Another note: Just realized the whole cherry daytalk thing was covered super briefly by clara d1, but w/e my point still stands). From what i have seen of this slot what they have posted has been pro-town and they have been making some good points (such as the cherry daytalk thing) when they do post. Although i dont agree with all of their reasonings (such as i dont agree with: "I get that you corrected yourself afterwards, but I feel that from a town mindset, they would read thouroughly before making a readslist, while from a scum mindset, they would want to get a readslist out asap to seem like they are putting alot of effort into the game"). But even with the general pro-town and good points they bring up this slot in general has been pretty passive with their posts, opting not to apply much pressure anywhere. Getting mixed feelings about this one.

Halsey N.- Not sure if the master plan of baiting out pressure was actual a masterful plan or somebody's coverup atm. And my guy has over 100 posts cant deal with this right now sorry.... i'll iso this tommorow yall will have to wait on this one tbh. Its a wierdish slot from what i have seen while rereading thread and reading over other people's iso's and i dont really wanna give reads on this until im more aware than this on a mental level. Working semi-braindead atm. Sooo...sorry

Shepard D.- Slight Townlean
Gonna repeat what i said earlier and say this guy is rude. And will call him rude in every one of my posts that mention him from here on!!!!!!!!
Ok now that that is out of the way...
While i dont particularly like the sheer hypocricy in terms of activity, especially in referenence to d1, nor do i really like the flip floppiness of his d2 in general. And i know this probably is stupid reasoning but realistically: would scum really just simply forget to bold fruit, i feel like if this was scum he would be more careful than that. I feel like i should logically be scumreading this slot more than i am but my gut is honestly telling me scum is elsewhere. (oh boy, reliance on gut as part of one of my reads, now shepard can call me bad again amirite :^)

Caroline M.- Townlean
PREPARE TO BE DAZZLED by my magnificent past midnight super tired reads.......... For real though im tired af by this point. D1 interactions such as the push on hasley regarding his "masterful plan" seem to have logical thought proccesses that actually help progress discussion and gamestate. --> <snip> From what I understand from this dazzling plan, you want to see which accounts show conflict in ideas and which show users backing each other up. You are saying that those who show a conflict in ideas are more likely to be town because of differences in ideas when scumhunting. You also say that users (of the same account) who look like they are backing each other up are more likely to be mafia because they both have the same goal of getting someone lynched (please correct me if I am misunderstanding). However you then say that you dont like what you saw from Cherry yet I dont see how you could possibly tell if 2 users have been posting under Cherry's account? Like atm I think only one Cherry has been posting thus far but idk because if its 2 then their posting styles are very similar. Therefore it seems as though the timing of the reveal of your dazzling plan (or as you say "waiting 10 hours") is off because your plan didnt actually fish out any scumtells, rather it was your "warped view" or whatever you called it when you acknowledged Cherry's reasoning in the end. This makes this whole "plan" look made up and tbh it just seems like you wanted to save your partner by making it look like it was all schemed. <snip>
As for their.... DAZZLING posting style thats pretty NAI imo and is basically just them having fun imo.
TL;DR applying pressure around, questioning ppl, and active scumhunting is goodly but not neccessarily a townlean.
The only real issue i take with this slot is the fact that (at least one of their heads) have two biggest SRs being inactives, but they explained themselves well enough in response to that so meh.

Emmy A.- Townread.
First to acknowledge the potential for creating a fruiting circle while openly pointing out the soul potential issue with it. And the kicker: proceded to go out and solve the issue with the semi-nightlessing strat by saying the the person being lynched could potentially do it. This could be scum trying to towntell but overall contributions tell me its probs not tbh. Too lazy after doing all of this (actually iso'd everyone starting FROM BOTTOM TO TOP of PL for some reason, this whole post was actually crafted really wierdly, i did the intro, then isos from bottom to top, the did outro, idk why) but i can grab quotes regarding these contributions that i like later.

Infernado G.- Scumlean
Short and scummy iso right here bois.
"<snip> And not sure what everyone else thinks but maybe since we have limited fruit it would be a good thing to do whatever strategy on later days to preserve deaths since in the beginning it takes a day or two to get proper reads. I just think it would be more beneficial to prevent deaths when there are fewer players and we have a better idea of who to lynch."
Sure this is good insight.... that i posted the same question about a day before.
Also dont really like this: (snipped as usual) "I just said that not everyone has to agree but why it strikes ME as scummy." For a response to emmy's questioning. Basically the problem with this is, instead of opting to apply pressure or defending his reasoning this is him kind of backing off and saying "cmon just chill, its not a big deal" which feels like to me he is overconcerned with making friends, not foes.

Jerimiah W.- WEE WOO WEE WOO!!!!!!!!! SCUM LOCATED!!! SCUM LOCATED MAH BOI!!! I PROMISED YOU GUYS I WOULD FIND DAH SCUM!!! DAH SCUM HAS BEEN FOUND!!!! Gonna actually make a separate post detailing my reasoning for this since there is a bit to go over, and i feel like using actual formatting for my biggest SR. Idk if i make this post later on tonight (well ig its friggin morning by now) or make it after work tommorow. Depends on how im feeling tbh. But i kinda need quoting for this one.

Kimmy S. - So i Townlean one kimmy and SR the other atm so imma say scumlean ;-;
(YAY SHORT ISO ~~not quite as short as mine tho ._.~~) Gave thoughts about the whole debate of the proper usage of fruits which is kinda NAI since they didnt bring up much original content of their own as per this topic. I did like the active pushing and aggression coming out of this slot early d1. Although that kinda died off later in the day which im probably just gonna attribute to lazyiness as iirc thats what kimmy said.
I really dont like the d2 sub-in locktowning harsley upon supposedly just scrolling through the game real quick which idt is enough for LOCKING someone in as town unless you see something really convincing. And idt being clear and concise with words is really justification. My gut is telling me they are TRing the underdog for towncred if it were ever to flip, i use this same strat as scum for the an identical purpose and this kinda reminds me of me if that makes sense.
"<snip> So anyways, did a light skim since it's like 15 minutes away from my designated sleeping time and just going to respond to some of the most notable things I've seen. <snip> Halsey is in my lock-town pool here, he's been very clear about everything and I feel scum is better off being ambiguous, which he's not. <snip>"

Cherry P.- HARD Townread.
I DONT BELIEVE ANY SCUM would risk doing something like this post: "mafia technically shouldnt have daytalk (thats how its been in previous games) but my chat w/ other cherry isnt locked so i assume its probably unlocked right now
confirmed with aj that mafia cannot send fruit and kill, so we definitely ought to use that tonight (and if a kill does go off, we can narrow down possible scum to groups of two). Not sure if doing the latter part of that is a good idea though, since it might obscure legitimate scumhunting."
Refering to the first half of the post here, as scum would have no way of knowing if the town quicktopics were either open or closed.

Cherry's irration (and the game in general tbh d1) with the constant questioning from others d1 regarding the lynch targets of the loli (jerimiah and halsey) seemed realistic imo, and while their playstyle and reactions do throw me off a bit i still believe this is pretty firmly town based partly on the tone taken as d1 progressed and but especially because i dont believe the aforementioned post COULD come from scum. (basically making that post as scum is hardcore risking a scumslip and has no logic to it if coming from scum pov)

YA BOI DR PROCTOR IS OUTTA HERE

Ending edit: Anything i say i'll get around to later i'll do after work tommorow...well once again not tommorow because i worked on this crap into the morning. Except potentially the jerimiah post which could come sooner.

by Shepherd D. Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:18 am

I must say I'm getting extreme town vibes from Dr. Proctor after that wallpost. I mean, first off, clearly he doesn't give a darn about looking town, which to be honest just makes him look more town in the end. After that, his reads make perfect sense (no, I'm not going to call you bad for having gutreads, I do too Rolling Eyes

) and overall my only request is that you be a bit more active as I'm actually very interested in what you have to say on all this. Overall, let me make this clear: my read on Proctor has shifted from a scumlean to a townlean. (Also, "dissecting" this thread? Good pun, Doc.) I must also point out that I have delayed my paragraph on Jeremiah yet again by falling asleep just as I was about to type it, and I'm starting to type it out... now.

by Shepherd D. Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:29 am

So, Jeremiah. Sigh... I must admit that his reads on page thirteen do seem quite forced, and they're not very original either, I think those were the general accepted opinions at the time... aside from that, his randomized list of fruiting users seems filler and pointless. There's no need for a randomized list if you can just use the player list??? It won't really change anything except make it more difficult for the people actually passing fruit. Moving on, his push on Anima on the next page, looking back at Anima's flip, seems rather forced as well and a way that potential scum could take advantage of a townie. His next post seems forced too... all of his posts just scream forced scum at a second glance. The guilty part I know shouldn't be happening is that I've actually been getting gut townvibes from Jeremiah for a while, and that's messing up my read of him, so for now, I'm going to have to call this one null, slight scumlean, due to the information I just provided. You've been incredibly inactive today as well, which doesn't help me read you at all. I'm going to wait on lynching you until you've given us your thoughts.

by Dr. Proctor Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:08 am

Shepherd D. wrote:I must say I'm getting extreme town vibes from Dr. Proctor after that wallpost. I mean, first off, clearly he doesn't give a darn about looking town, which to be honest just makes him look more town in the end. After that, his reads make perfect sense (no, I'm not going to call you bad for having gutreads, I do too ) and overall my only request is that you be a bit more active as I'm actually very interested in what you have to say on all this. Overall, let me make this clear: my read on Proctor has shifted from a scumlean to a townlean. (Also, "dissecting" this thread? Good pun, Doc.) I must also point out that I have delayed my paragraph on Jeremiah yet again by falling asleep just as I was about to type it, and I'm starting to type it out... now.

Glad you caught it Wink

Who needs fruit puns when you have Doctor puns amirite

by Dr. Proctor Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:09 am

Anywho meant to do this last night: lynch Jerimiah W.
Will detail out everything i didnt go in depth on during my wallpost sometime after work today~~~

by Kimmy S. Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:29 am

re: Shepherd how do you even know which Kimmy is saying what .-.

OK so I've read over what most of you guys are saying, and there's really nothing I feel like responding to, so I'll just throw out a bunch of general stuff into the ether.

Currently liking Dr. Proctor, their posts right now is full of content, which kinda makes up for previous day.

I still stand by my case on Jeremiah, he hasn't done anything to convince me otherwise.

I don't think we use fruit tonight, after all, we kinda agreed on N1/Later Night no?

Emmy is still a townlean, they've kept the pace completely steady since previous day.

Really can't get any solid reads on anyone else at this point tbh, the stuff I read just don't process. Reading back now, properly posting once I can get my thoughts actually sorted.

by Kimmy S. Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:38 am

Did a quick reread, didn't like how Cherry basically dropped the whole Halsey thing, given they were so intent on jumping all over them yesterday, also their posts are just bulky but not really concise or readable, it's just quotes+short statements, which is kinda easy to do. They promised more activity so I'm waiting on it but currently their posts are rather low-effort.

Scumread them more today, dropping the Halsey thing just like that and the easy posts they made. Still scumread Jeremiah more rn though so my vote stays on them, but if Jeremiah obvtowns themselves and a wagon speedforms on Cherry, I'm not averse to joining it.

by Clara H. Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:53 am

Emmy asked me a ton of questions I answered already and that most recent post is 90% repeating things others are saying

I townread Proctor for his townread on Shepherd. It would be easy for scum Proctor to go with the wagon, especially since he was originally lynched by Shepherd. Instead he went with the counterwagon, showing he was interested in hunting scum, not just surviving

I can't stop poking sr's at shepherd. He claimed he had town vibes on Jeremiah, yet when Jeremiah became a strong counterwagon, Shepherd leans scum on him. I also dislike the way he jumps from lynch to lynch when we call him out on his reasons. I'm hoping Jeremiah will return to explain himself because when the pressure wasn't on him he seemed to disappear.

by Caroline M. Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:26 pm

Alright so the literal 50 posts a day are killing my executive function so instead of using up all my energy and more on trying to figure out what everyone's saying through the thread, I am going to look through individual players (or as individual as it gets with hydra). I apologize for any misunderstandings in advance but right now this is the best I can do. I also can't promise I'll get to everyone right now, and especially people whose posts have 5 pages will probably come later.

Clara H: Well one thing I noticed is that she often needs to make a post where she clarifies things like "him refers to halsey" (I'm parphrasing) which, it's not scummy, but it's odd. I suppose it's easy enough to just not really realize that you should be more specific in this. It's also easy enough to pretend to do so to make your post count look better, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. She mentions a townread on proctor because of his townread on Shepherd, but if you sr Shepherd, wouldn't this be a scummy thing? After all, it would mean proctor is trying to protect Shepherd. And you are sring shepherd a lot this game, so I'm not sure why you would think someone protecting him could be town, I'd like to know what you have to say about this.

Now next on the list would be Halsey but he has 5 pages in his posts thing, so I'm saving that for when I have more time. Also I'm pretty sure my hydra has been saying almost everything one could say about halsey. Though I will say that I find it strange how Halsey is so bothered by us not answering their questions clearly enough, when skimming through his posts I couldn't find any kind of reaction to the entire "the results don't matter, the intentions do" thing. After I specifically addressed him. He talks about how we're not reading his posts properly when he's just... ignoring some of our posts. Posts specifically addressing him. And you may notice I've switched from they to him, it's because I believe it's more likely that one of them is the one complaining about how we don't read carefully enough.

Shepherd: Well, first of all Shepherd, yes there's a reason for "dazzling", no it's not for towncred. If you look at it from a distance you might notice a pattern. With Shepherd I honestly find it most interesting how they got so much more active and do so much less shitposting since being lynched. It might just be because of the sub also coming in at that point.

I know I'm like partway through shepherd's posts right now but I've ran out of time for today. I need to be somewhere in like half an hour and I do need the time to get there. This is another reason I've decided to do it like this, I can't even read everything in the time I have. It's literally too much. Let alone add something that my hydra hasn't already said.

by Sponsored content