Re: Game 12: Vengeful Mafia Mafia

by Natchi F. Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:14 am

Next up is Warden!

Warden H. wrote: Mod: Sub out all the inactives?

I like osashi for town, the way she's pushing kezoki doesnt seem forced or desperate.

Echoes what many others have said, perhaps in an attempt to blend in? Does mention Osashi looks towny, which was relatively common among most (other than Kezoki, obviously).

Warden H. wrote:
Mizuho N. wrote:
Natchi F. wrote:
Mizuho N. wrote:
2.) What is PoE?
*Pops in*
Process of Elimination
(I think)
*Leaves*
Well in that case.... PoE is flawed. Why? Because if we are gonna use process of elimination then that means you would townread everyone active as most people atm is townreading the active people and nulling the inactives. So using PoE that leaves inactives. There are 2 things that are wrong with this.

1.) You are encouraging the lynch of inactives and as Natchi said, if we keep lynching inactives then that could open up a possibility for maf to win. Scum detector is beeping.

2.) Ok so we have townread everyone who is active....and then there are no inactives left as either some have come on and become active and others would be lynched, so is PoE really gonn solve the problem? No.

And if you start talking about we can just look for the scummiest in the people we have townread or something like that then thats why i made a scumlist.

So whats the point of a scumlist? To make progress instead of pulling wool over our eyes and townreading everyone!

If you townread all the actives, then scum is in the inactives. Simple as that. You don't look in the actives for scum.

It's not like im going to solely PoE my way through, if I find something scummy then naturally, i scumread him.

So Warden says that you only look at the inactives as scum if you have townread all of the inactives; whether intended or not, this implies that your views on someone can't change after townreading them. Interesting, considering how Warden acts later in the game. However, his second statement does seem to amend his first one by saying that you shouldn't be explicitly studying the actives if you deem them all town, but you should still not ignore them and note down whether people say/do something scummy and take that into account for later reads.

Warden H. wrote:Apologies for the inactivity. I'm also in a rush at the moment, so I won't be able to completely analyse the situation.

Anyhow, I've thought about this carefully, and I'm gonna post this real quick for the sake of organisation (and if anyone is curious too).

Town
Wakana
Natchi
Agatha

Suspect List
Mizuno
Nicolai
Kezoki
Brendan

vote Brendan T.

I'm going to think about this carefully later (and post an analyse probs), but I feel Kezoki is towniest of the suspects.

Alright, has his first reads, says he doesn't have time to explain, that's alright.
Does vote for one of those on his suspect list, makes sense.

Warden H. wrote:unvote: brendan T.
Vote:Nicolai
Yeah this is better.

Not much explanation, but he goes ahead and switches his vote after reading and participating in the discussion with others. I guess that's alright.

Warden H. wrote:Okay so the lag on the site is terrible, so I'm not going to quote.

So the stuff that when through my head today:

The reason why Agatha is town is mostly because you can't help but sense a town feeling. It's mostly everything she said about gut reads that really convinced me. I don't think its easy to fake.

The reason i felt Kezoki was town was because of his aggressiveness. Granted its not necessarily a town tell, but like my other reads it doesn't come off as forced.

I kinda agree with Brendan that Mizuno has this weird feeling (which i basically had since the beginning of the game)

@Mizuno:
What is a boolean

no you're overreading. I don't have scumreads because I don't.

can't remember whether i posted anything about osashi vs kezoki, although i remember thinking it was a town fight.

pedit: Because brendan actually posted something, which i dont find scummy.

Wait, Kezoki switched from leaning scum to town here, strange. He explains his town read on Agatha, and says "I don't have scumreads because I don't." If there is nobody else in the game who could be scum in your opinion, would that not make you scum?

Warden H. wrote:At this stage I figure i've overlooked something. I think Nicolai is the first scum, and the second and third scum is among Brendan, Mizuno, Natchi or Wakana

Now Kezoki is completely gone and he's switched me into one of his scum slots. Interesting. He also switched Wakana, one of his earlier town reads, into another one of the scum slots. He has kept Brendan and Mizuho as scummy, though.

Warden H. wrote:
Wakana O. wrote:"By going past the borderline" I meant that just because of one post that does not connect me to anything or anybody else automatically says that I am most probably or am scum. For example, saying hi in a post most likely means that I am scum. Brb, need to do some other things and will post more later. Also I already said the scumteams in my other post and also Warden, how come you viewed me as clean but now I am scum without no explanation from you.

As said, I felt I overlooked something, so I listed players from town to scum rather than just giving hard reads.

It went something like:
Kezoki
Agatha
Natchi
Wakana
Mizuno
Brendan
Nicolai

And the ones I'm super sure are town are the top two.

Now he's "super sure" Kezoki and Agatha are town. Kezoki slowly rose up on his list from scummy to town, interestingly enough. He kept the three (Nicolai, Brendan, Mizuho) at a constant space, as scum, so he hasn't changed there. He also brought me and Wakana down to leaning scum/neutral/leaning town, rather than town. Given, he has said that this is because he had more time to think it over, but I think some of the changes are interesting.

by Natchi F. Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:27 am

Now, we move on to Wakana!

Wakana O. wrote:Only us two out of the town. Well Agatha posted nonsense, so I believe it is just like Toran from game 8 who would lurk, filler, and then come out all defensive. In my opinion in the forums, it is better to lynch the less contributing and trolly players as town will not benefit at all. It just adds pressure to the town in the very end of the games. Even if we mislynch (rip points ) we get info on town and proceed to work faster and more efficient. Bad thing is the revenging as it would always put us in the same position of setup against the mafia so we need to be active and discuss thoroughly, not refraining from posting thoughts, and yeah. This means we need to be careful and not be all bold and bashful so yeah. Right now going to Ul Mizuho M. N. and Lynch Agatha A.

Brings up examples from past games, which may be valid but could also simply be the player's style of playing. However, points out that this is not just scummy and is trolly/unhelpful, so the reason for lynching Agatha here is legitimate. Also encourages people to be active, like most others were doing at this time.

Wakana O. wrote:Jenina and Nicolai. Since it's day 1 and you got to read the thread but not writing a single thing down is eh. I suggest to post as soon as possible so we all can see your deductions on players and see how you act towards one and another. If not, you would just be evading and fillering which right here is hard to not just go and lynch one of you due to no power roles and some lack of activity plus the situation of the game in which we are forced to lynch, so that would be the best lead for us townies. Aj, why are you so evil .

Able to handle Jenina and Nicolai's infuriating posts much more calmly, and encourages them to post, stating how bad it is for town if they do nothing. Interesting she does so, given that she suggested lynching Agatha previously (perhaps it was because Agatha was being lynched at this time and she didn't want to have to lynch more than 1 person because of inactivity/uselessness? It's too bad that it ended up happening anyways...)

Wakana O. wrote:Don't know why you guys lynched Jenina, never even said the post was bs but that you just got to talk and get into the game doing that scumhunting.
Kezoki Q. wrote:Alright then going on agatha for the same reasons as yesterday. I don't care if I seem scummy af but I have my reasons. Lynch Agatha
Btw what do you mean by reasons as this looks like it's personal. Not accusing but saying that is a little overkill for town.

Comes in and says that it wasn't a good idea to lynch Jenina, brings up a point she misunderstood and was clarified later. Interesting that she says it wasn't a good idea to lynch Jenina and yet was nowhere to be found when we were lynching her.

Wakana O. wrote:I just find that catchphrase not t-t-t-towny enough. It is more of a filler but a deadly, no reason to use it one.

Brings up a catchphrase that... Mizuho, I believe... used, and points it out as filler. This itself is kind of filler, although it points out that the "catchphrase" isn't a good thing to use.

Wakana O. wrote:I really got no reads nor nothing to post rn. I'm just looking for anybody scummy and mentioning that. I have however noticed that the process of elimination idea is scummy as just because everybody is townread, doesn't mean nobody from that group is mafia. Mafia will slip sooner or later but most mafia tend to be highly active or try to post out of instinct. (not really scumhunting but can't really scumhunt due to everybody being so towny so just basing of gut instinct) [also I sometimes am at school and check this randomly so that is my reason for lurking sometimes (altho not a lurk but more of a sneak peak)]

Here, she says what most people accused her of: that she is discussing what most others have by pointing at people who are acting scummy, although she does bring in her own opinion on PoE and points out that mafia will eventually make scumslips/be fairly active and/or instinctive in terms of reads (sounds a lot like Brendan, eh?). She also explains why she may be online but not posting. Convenient but likely true excuse here.

Wakana O. wrote:So somebody want to sum it up for me please . I've been really busy lately so that is why there is not that much posts. I'm a player that would contribute a lot but a lot of homework and stuff but yeah. Would be nice if somebody catches me up on what is going on right now.

The post right before deadline that got Wakana a decent amount of flak for being "filler" etc. etc. I guess it would make sense that she was busy and thus didn't get to see, but this is very fillery, as she could have, y'know, just read back and caught up (like what I always do after I miss 2-3 days).

Wakana O. wrote:ok, been reading through everything and done finally. Natchi, if you look at all my posts, I haven't even softed nobody and moreso stated my opinion on everybody's positions. Also looking for scummy reactions I find to be dumb now tbh. You got Romeo for example who was kinda scummy but town viewed, moreso it was his relationship with Callister that the fire mafia attacked him. Also for relationships it is not to attack but just a speculation that maybe an Agatha and Mizuho scumteam as Mizuho had being agreeing and disagreeing at a constant rate while each one not really discussing their thoughts and so really friendly towards each other. I don't see this to be following a pattern tho so not likely but keeping that in mind. To me Kezoki is shaky as he goes back and forth with his observations. Also I honestly did not know about the deadline Kezoki. To me, you look at reactions but are really quick to lynch and in alot of your observations. Also, absolutely nothing in my posts except for agatha (and those were for the firsts) have me wanting to go for the lynch as you said and you are thinking way past the borderline of a single post.

Brings up an example about how Romeo was attacked by the fire mafia for his relationship with Callister; I read the entire thread, and I can tell you that it was false. Romeo was killed by the fire mafia for being extremely towny and because the fire mafia thought he was the doctor. I believe only two people correctly identified him as the ice mafia (near the end of the day too): Gulzar, and Robert - both townies. I'd also like to point out (as I probably have done before) that not softing anyone doesn't mean that you aren't scumpartners with them; it just means you're really good at hiding it. She also refutes a couple points made against her and points out a possible scumteam of Agatha and Mizuho here for "agreeing and disagreeing at a constant rate" (lolwat).

Wakana O. wrote:
Brendan T. wrote:Yeah I think seeing everything thats been laid out and the fact that even while under suspicion Nicolai's post (I think he only had one during that time) was contentless and didn't contribute in any way so:

Lynch Nicolai I.

This post to me sums up Brendan. His other posts are fillery and don't seem to be town but like the post above, trying to be town and don't set a straight up tone to a supposed scumhunt. It is more of small details that the town is basing off and more of thoughts than just hypothesis. As everybody has some sort of if and then to scumhunts but Brendan's seem to be thoughts from town and slight reactions.

Brings up what appears to be Brendan's thought process from how he's posted thus far; it lines up pretty well with her definition of scum.

Wakana O. wrote:So was noticing that Warden's posts are more gutfeelings and really slight based of a single action like aggressiveness. He also tends to evade discussion and when he says he has explained something, it is just a gutfeeling or some slight reaction. Now just need to read Agatha, Mizuho, and Natchi's posts which are a lot so gonna take me some time.

Also explains her thoughts on Warden, also similar to the characteristics she sees as scummy.

Essentially, she's pointed out two scumteam and two scum here: Brendan, Warden, Kezoki+Natchi, Mizuho+Agatha. The interesting thing is that, well... that's everyone in the game. I'm not sure if she has an updated readlist or not at this point, but it'd be good to hear if she does have one.

by Natchi F. Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:55 am

Now it starts getting hard: the people who have posted a lot. Starting with Agatha!

Agatha A. wrote:addition: I think I kind of get what's going on now... meaning what I just did is scummy in a way, if I'm not interested I'd want to get lynched to get out, if I'm mafia that'll trigger a nightkill blahblahblah... yeah I'm seriously being scummy right now.

Another thing, I'm actually someone who contributes a lot when being mafia, though of course this isn't really so easy to say seeing as we don't know who is who xD either way, I'm not usually a lurker and I tend to pay attention when I'm mafia.

and then last: okay I got saved by someone but what does that actually say about me? Nothing if you ask me, it might have just been a mafia trick to get me to be scummy, and if I were to get lynched and would flip town the mafia would be back to not-so-scummy, right? After all, which mafia member in the right mind protects a town member? If you guys could let me live at least 1 day I would be very happy so I can show you guys that I was actually just being forgetful, if you still think I'm scummy after that, go ahead, lynch me. But it would make me really happy if you wouldn't lynch me this day but instead look at who is actually SCUMMY instead of who isn't useful for town, after all, the most town-like people could also flip mafia, there are several players in the mafia room I know that play perfect town while being mafia, though with those there's always something about it that activates my scum radar.

summary of what I just said: please let me live 1 more day, give me the chance to prove that I am actually just forgetful, there's nothing really I can say in my defense. If you do want to lynch me, keep a few things in mind. 1). the person that protected me might actually be mafia protecting a town to make the town look scummy, then when the townie gets lynched and flips town they look less scummy and there's yet another town eliminated, because what mafia would protect a town member? That's my thought on that, so if you lynch me, keep that in mind. 2). there are several people in the mafia room I know that play perfect town while being mafia, they do everything like a town player would, though those always have something that's off. That's something that appears on my scum-radar. Lynch me and lose that if you want to, or if you don't trust me.

States that if she was mafia, she wouldn't care and would just let herself get killed so she could take out town. Valid point, I guess. Says she "contributes more as mafia" even though we have no idea who she is and thus we cannot validate this. Next, she brings up a convoluted argument which she retracts later. Finally, she asks for one day to "prove herself" and tries to appear nonchalant about being lynched once again.

Agatha A. wrote:not much time left, 10 hours until deadline iirc

on another note, I wouldn't have done such a big message with so much pleading for myself if I believed it wasn't neccesary, it takes a lot of effort and I'm lazy so yeah...

Tries to say that she wouldn't put in effort if she was mafia (essentially).

Agatha A. wrote:I would make a scumlist but I feel like that would hinder more than it would help seeing as I don't really know much about anyone, I've only read the things that happened after my second post, which doesn't really give me a good idea of what's going on. Seeing as I don't know what's going on a scumlist coming from me right now would be purely guts and I'd rather not trust on my guts, when they work they are never mistaken, only they're lazy and only work 1/10 times, and when it works I'll notice.

Basically says that she would make a scumlist but she feels it wouldn't be accurate because it would be based off of gut feelings and because she hasn't read back completely (mainly the second reason).

Agatha A. wrote:Kezoki Q.: Mainly townread but there are a few things which are a bit odd, for example how at november 29 he posted that I came online while I came online at november 30, which is a bit odd, it would only benefit mafia to put me in a sticky situation right? and that could have put me in a really sticky situation, even stickier than it is now. for the rest just a few strange things but nothing else.

Natchi F.: Townread, seriously townread, I know I've had the possibility of him being scum before but that was because I didn't feel like looking into the situation back then, lazy which made me stupid. He was just being logical, why lynch someone who might get subbed out over someone who actually still looks at the game but posts things like "I can't contribute into this conversation so I'll just post so I'm active"?

Wakana O.: That's not a lot of posts you know? And all of those were kind of attacking specific people who were already kind of getting attacked... kind of scummy...

Warden H.: Hasn't said much but what he's said was all logical and was to help town, except for a few of the earlier posts... But for now I'm thinking he's not really scummy.

Nicolai I.: on the 26th of november "I'm here now" yeah I don't really see you... could you like, post? That would help out...

Brendan: Even worse, WHERE ARE YOU! You only confirmed... yeah as if that helps, get over here!

Osashi D.: You posted a readlist but it was early on in the game and it wasn't very complete, guess I can't really blame you? still please get a bit more active and be more useful for town... it's just meh with you... I don't really know

and finally Mizuho N.: I seriously can't be bothered to read through all of that, 4 pages and I doubt there's much interesting in there, probably all townish things from what I've seen from you.

Notes that Kezoki made some interesting comments that tried to put her in the figurative hot seat, interesting. Also reverses her read on me completely. Next, says Wakana generally attacks people who are already being attacked (which I don't think is true from when i've looked at her posts, although she does post rarely). Regarding Warden, says that his posts helped town out, although there were not many of them. Notes that Nicolai and Brendan are inactive. Asks Osashi to be a bit more active. Comments that Mizuho seems "townish."

Agatha A. wrote:if I'm absolutely honest my gut is telling me Osashi but I'd rather not rely on my gut too much so I don't really know what to do right now.

Once again brings up acting on gut feelings, interestingly enough.

Agatha A. wrote:Yesterday I had read through kezoki and a few others and then I clicked on the wrong thing which made my message disappear, seeing as I had the idea in my mind of kezoki being kinda scummy I thought there were more strange things but the only strange things have already been said. About Natchi, I know I said that a bit much but it was more like a "yeah I was wrong about that, I actually have him as townread now", when I just looked back at it I don't know why I phrased it that way... but meh, the point of it is the same, townread. Also, bussing? I guess that's being nice to people and making them townreads so they don't lynch you? yeah that was unintentional... oh well

Gets annoyed when I note that the way she changed her read is bussing, says that she was "being nice" which is interesting, since changing your mind isn't necessarily "being nice." Saying that she was "being nice" makes it sound like she still thinks i'm scum while not saying so.

Agatha A. wrote:I'm sorry I haven't really been on yesterday, I had a lot of things to do, and same about today (IRL times, if you're wondering). I don't really know what to do atm, I could set myself safe for now by lynching osashi but I'm not really convinced osashi is mafia... I do know one thing for sure though, chances are there is a mafia that is actually one of the really active people, seeing as there are 3 people who aren't really talking and 4 who are actually really talking, and seeing as most of us know people who just don't talk during games, even when town, it's not all that weird that there are people who aren't really talking. but still, WHERE ARE YOU PEOPLE! Nicolai, Warden, Brendan...

TALK. PLEASE.

We know Warden and Brendan are here so why aren't you 2 talking? just participate for once, please...

Emphasizes that the inactives need to talk, interestingly doesn't include Wakana (perhaps because she had posted recently?). She says that she doesn't think Osashi is mafia and thus does not lynch her.

Agatha A. wrote:on another note, on your advice mizuho, I read through all your messages, and especially at the start of the game I found some strange things things that aren't really all that towny, and while we're talking about kezoki being lynch happy, he wasn't really the only one, you have been lynching people every day so far...

Says she finds "strange things" (basically filler) that don't seem towny, but neglects to point them out. Also says that Mizuho has been as lynch-happy as Kezoki, voting every day (although she hasn't switched her vote as much).

Agatha A. wrote:also, little thing about my gut feeling: it's actually more of a voice in my head or something, when I'm about to lynch someone every now and then something in my head just tells me to lynch the other person against all logic.

Explains what her "gut feeling" is; basically a voice that tells her to vote the opposite way of what she thinks she should do (that may be schizophrenia, get that checked out). Perhaps she's trying to use this "gut feeling" as a crutch to fall back on?

Agatha A. wrote:there's a difference between trusting, and following, I don't agree with osashi's lynch, but I do trust osashi, I trust that they are town. That's what I mean by trust, and that's what I mean by being illogical, right now you would probably say trusting mizuho and natchi is logical, but I'm not always logical.

Explains how trusting someone doesn't mean you agree with them. It simply means you think they are town, but it does not mean that you think that the decisions they are making are always correct. Says that she isn't logical, perhaps as a mean to explain actions that seem strange?

Agatha A. wrote:Kezoki reply: assuming only town wants the game to be active, everyone is (hopefully) in this for the fun, and in a dead game it isn't really fun is it? as town it's fun to figure out who the mafia is, as mafia it's fun to win without being seen as scum at any point, or maybe you find it more fun to survive while being seen as one of the most scummy players? who knows, still, a game isn't fun if it's dead. That's the thing about Mizuho, and some other posts of which I'm like "why... just why?", posts that are just fillering to me. For the rest nothing odd really but still.

Town would certainly want the game to be active, but mafia may as well to create a fun game or so that they seem town. Brings up that Mizuho is fillering, but fails once again to point out specific posts. (I'll be analyzing her later - oh god, that's gonna suck - so i'll be able to find the filler if it exists).

Agatha A. wrote:Knowing I am probably next, it doesn't really matter if I look a bit more scummy anymore. Though I do want to ask you all one thing, can you PLEASE just stop calling me scummy because I had forgotten about the game? PLEASE, it's really annoying to be called scummy for starting to try to help after being forgetful about the game for a bit and then people coming with such excuses for why they think I'm scummy. Come with something legit, please. Come with something about what I said, not about what I DIDN'T say. And the thing with not being interested, while I could of course lie, after getting my role pm I was kind of disappointed because I wouldn't get to make plans to kill everyone in the game, though meanwhile this game has gotten interesting for me. With that said.
lynch kezoki q.

Says that "she is probably next" and casts a vote for Kezoki, essentially hammering the Osashi lynch as Kezoki is unable to unvote at this point. Coincidental that this occurred, or unintentional? I have no idea. She also says that she doesn't care about appearing scummy at this point, interestingly enough. Seems to be getting annoyed that people are calling her scummy for her previous inactivity, brings up that she doesn't like being town in this game and essentially claims vanilla townie (interesting).

Agatha A. wrote:While I do believe kezoki is the most scummy active player right now I'd rather not lose him atm seeing as odds now say it's quite possibly the inactives

Says she sees Kezoki as scummy but doesn't want to lynch him, strangely enough. She then contradicts herself by saying it's possibly the inactives instead of Kezoki. Weird.

Agatha A. wrote:lynch nicolai

Seriously? You've had so much time yet you STILL haven't posted a single thing. Is rather get rid of him while we still wont lose from a misslynch than having him here any longer.

Votes/Bandwagons (not sure what point this was at) onto Nicolai, angry about him being extremely useless. Essentially says that we will lose nothing from another mislynch, although doing so puts us into LyLo.

Agatha A. wrote:In the very least we can make a read on brendan, he has said things, Nicolai doesn't seem to want to say anything, if it's a misslynch then so be it, at least we don't have to worry about him anymore. If brendan is a misslynch we can't afford a misslynch anymore. Everyone has talked except for nicolai, if we get rid of nicolai we can make a read on everyone in the game. Small cost, medium risk, good reward. If we lynch brendan it costs town more, it has a bigger risk and a lesser reward. (that's what I'm expecting at least.)

Urges us to make a read on Brendan and further argues as to why we should get rid of Nicolai, seemingly ignoring the negatives of the lynch in the case he is town. Also argues against lynching Brendan so we all can analyze him further on the next day.

Agatha A. wrote:Kezoki Q.: While he isn't as quick to lynch anymore he still doesn't seem to hesitate much when it comes to lynching, though he seems to be trying to help town. There are some other odd things about him, statements that make me think "did you read what I just said or what?", most of those times the way he says it makes others seem more scummy though it's mostly just them saying something helpful for town and him "reading over" the keywords, the things that make it not scummy... Leaning scum

Wakana O.: Not much posts, some fillers, some actual useful posts but still not enough to really allow me a read, though what I do find is that what he/she DOES say tends to be logical. Neutral.

Natchi F.: honest, doesn't exclude the option of him being in a scumteam, mostly reacts to what others say though, only a few of his posts weren't reactions, which is a bit scummy, though overall I'd say he's leaning town.

Warden H.: Doesn't really talk all that much but talks more than some people in the game *cough* nicolai, brendan, wakana *cough* and what warden says usually makes sense... though not all of it is just logical, some things are just about feelings, which I appreciate too. After all, logic can't tell us if we're in love, that's something feelings do. leaning town.

Nicolai L.: yeah not even going to bother with this one anymore...

Brendan E.: you talked! :O you seriously need to talk more though, can't really put up a read on this right now, some strange things we went over already and some things that make it kinda towny so neutral.

Mizuho N.: Talks a lot, though there are many fillers, and while most things mizuho says help town it's like warden said, there's something odd about it. I just can't quite place it... but the fact there's something odd about it remains. Logic says "town", feeling says "adgeahgdjaekgadhge" and I can't quite understand that language yet... though it's something like "don't trust mizuho, they're scum!", so yeah... seeing as I know several people who would do psanon games and who are good enough to lead town while being mafia... leaning scum.

Says a lot of things that make Kezoki seem town and then scumreads him, strangely enough. Says Wakana fillers but also puts in helpful posts when she isn't fillering, and gives her a neutral. Continues with her town read on me, although it's become only "leaning town" now because I generally only react to what others have said. Brings up that Warden seems to argue a lot with logic and not just going with his feelings/his gut; I'm not sure about this, he seems to lean on the gut feeling side more, but I may be mixing him up with someone else. No need to mention Nicolai and Brendan here. On Mizuho says she has a "weird feeling" about her that makes her feel like she is scum. Not sure what this "weird feeling" is, though.

Agatha A. wrote:It's simple, a mafia gets points for every town lynch they participate in, this is after all a tournament with points

Explains logic for Brendan voting Nicolai if he was mafia here. This makes sense, and is valid.

by Kezoki Q. Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:31 am

Well Natchi is no longer online, but I guess he'll be doing me and Mizuho later. Anw great posts so far, I think if you were scum you wouldn't go to these lengths to analyze everyone, so you're pretty clear in my book.

by Kezoki Q. Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:36 am

I'll just add that I'm still leaning on Brendan - Wakana as a scum team, but I have seriously no idea who the third one is. Mizuho has been a town leader, Warden is posting great stuff, if Natchi turns out to be mafia I'd give him a medal just for dedication. And ever since Agatha became active she has seemed really pro-town too.

by Natchi F. Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:03 am

So this post did delete halfway through, causing me to cry in a prone position for approximately 7 hours.
Um... anyways. On to Kezoki! Here comes the bulk of the posts.
*cracks knuckles*

Kezoki Q. wrote:Like I said Natchi, I'd rather have one less inactive townie than just sit and wait for them to answer. They just ruin the fun of the game.

He explains his reasoning for lynching the inactives; valid reasoning here, in my opinion. However, it could also be a scum's convenient excuse.

Kezoki Q. wrote:Yes, and coming online once a week to post your reads without explaining your absence isn't scummy at all. I don't have to defend myself, while me natchi and mizuho were arguing over who to lynch you said absolutely nothing.

Kezoki gets fairly defensive here, although I understand why. There was a bit of miscommunication that cause this, but this is one of the few (perhaps even the only) time that Kezoki loses his cool, interestingly enough.

Kezoki Q. wrote:I never said Inactive = scummy. I said inactive = not helping the progress of the game, therefore inactive = useless. You mean to tell me losing Jenina was a huge loss for town? No. In fact I'll go ahead and say it was still a win, since it narrowed down the field to help find mafia, and got people like you to start talking. So me lynching her was not a bad idea at all.

Kezoki further justifies his lynch on Jenina, correctly stating that Jenina was completely and utterly useless (/me still rages) and that getting her lynched may have actually helped town, as it narrowed down the pool of who could be scum. It was a mislynch that did bring us closer to LyLo, though, so it's interesting that he didn't really mention the negatives of the lynch (perhaps because others already did).

Kezoki Q. wrote:I didn't say your reads were nonsense, you just called me scummy for being active and lynching people, that's what I thought was weird.

Kezoki further elaborates on why he was defensive and why he thought the reads made no sense.

Kezoki Q. wrote:Let me just justify my lynch with some new arguments. Agatha comes on the game twice, the first time she says this
Agatha A. wrote:hmm... forgot my name
which is, of course, useless filler. The second time she comes on, a week later, she says she forgot about the game, asks for a summary, and disappears once more.
Agatha A. wrote:I'm so sorry! I forgot about the game... I knew I was forgetting something but I couldn't remember what... can someone give me a summary of what happened?
The fact that Agatha did this could show us that Agatha wants us to think that she is town and wants to be co-operative, but clearly she isnt as she has been a while.

Here he explains his lynch on Agatha; due to the fact that she was also being useless and not helpful, while trying to appear like she was attempting to help.

Kezoki Q. wrote:Unlynch Agatha Lynch Kenzo I know, I know I'm switching lynches way too much but I believe the explanation is clear here: Kenzo has been lurking too much, and i decided to give agatha one more chance to prove she can be active. (I am a generous god)

Kezoki switches his vote at this point to give Agatha a chance to talk and continues with his trend of lynching an inactive; sadly, this strategy didn't work yet again (and it never worked, sadly >_>).

Kezoki Q. wrote:Alright Agatha, you said to give you a day and you can participate, anything to note? Is anyone scummy? Is anyone seeming like town? Anything at all to get the conversation going? These questions are for everyone else as well, we have already lost 2 people just because they were inactive, any reads on whoever could help right now. I'll start :
-I find Mizuho and Warden to be town-sided, because they are actively progressing towards a good scumhunting method. As seen in the PoE posts, if Mizuho was scum he wouldn't spend his time trying to explain why PoE is a bad strategy, he would have just nodded and agreed and watched the townies fall :p Same for Warden, any idea right now is a welcome idea, though I personally wouldn't use PoE.
-Osashi : Scummy. She did post a read-list, but it was pretty much useless since literally everyone was either town, or leaning town in her opinion. IMO, she's trying to get on everyone's good side, which is a typical mafia thing to do.
-Wakana: Competely Neutral. She (He?) seems to alternate between posting some good, useful posts and then posting a useless, filler-y one.
-Natchi: Town. I don't get why I've seen many posts saying that natchi is scummy, I haven't seen him (her?) doing anything sketchy. As far as I'm concerned he pointed out the scummiest post on day 1, and lynched accordingly, and even tho Jenina flipped town, that was more of a town move than a scummy move.
-Agatha: Scum until she proves otherwise. Managed to escape being lynched twice now because we wanted to give her a chance. It's do or die time, either be active and share some of your ideas, or you'll be lynched.
-Nicolai - Brendan: Please be active. I'm begging
So according to me the scum team would be : Osashi - Agatha - Nicolai/Brendan
Therefore
Lynch Osashi
Thank you for your time
Also note to the mod : Update Alive/Dead list

I commented previously that it was fairly OMGUSsy, and I think it still is. He comments that Warden, Mizuho, and I are all town, and provides a neutral read on Wakana due to her ranging from filler to useful posts. Scumread on Agatha because she hadn't been very useful at this point, although she definitely started contributing later.

Kezoki Q. wrote:
Osashi D. wrote:
Kezoki Q. wrote:Yay! Brendan! 1 more to go I think so we can get a full game!
Am gonna state a few things:
1-@Brendan : Did Kenzo even talk at all before he was lynched? How did you find him scummy if he didn't?
2-@Mizuho : Reading someone as neutral =/= reading someone as scum, she only added me and Natchi as neutral so her list wouldn't be all town. My point still stands on Osashi.
3-@Agatha : Bussing is going against your own scum partner.
4-@Mizuho Again: Might wanna correct that last post, I think you made an error since you mentioned yourself twice.
5-@Natchi : I think I cleared things up with the agatha thing when we agreed that I had mentioned her coming online at the very beginning of the game, she thought I was being scummy because she misinterpreted me as saying she came online when she never did. I understand that you find me as being scummy. How so?
6-@Osashi, who just posted: Agatha asked for a 1 day grace period if you will, so I gave her that, and she became pretty active, whereas you on the other hand became way less active after your first read list. "Note: I think kezoki changed his mindset from inactive = useless to scummy = useless" what does that mean?

I was questioning why your shifted your attention on me rather than Agatha because in the earlier days, you seem to always be lynching the one that haven't talk at all.
Well, basically we got 0 info by lynching kenzo and jenina, and I already posted my current read-list with you being the scummiest imo. Already explained the Agatha part, and you can also read what Mizuho said.

Explains his lynch on Osashi, saying that lynching inactives won't really work at this point and that he's just realized that. He then says that we'll be able to get more info from lynching someone else, and he believes Osashi is scummy (is this motivated by the fact that she lynched him? We may never know.)

Kezoki Q. wrote:
Osashi D. wrote:
Kezoki Q. wrote:
Osashi D. wrote:
Kezoki Q. wrote:Yay! Brendan! 1 more to go I think so we can get a full game!
Am gonna state a few things:
1-@Brendan : Did Kenzo even talk at all before he was lynched? How did you find him scummy if he didn't?
2-@Mizuho : Reading someone as neutral =/= reading someone as scum, she only added me and Natchi as neutral so her list wouldn't be all town. My point still stands on Osashi.
3-@Agatha : Bussing is going against your own scum partner.
4-@Mizuho Again: Might wanna correct that last post, I think you made an error since you mentioned yourself twice.
5-@Natchi : I think I cleared things up with the agatha thing when we agreed that I had mentioned her coming online at the very beginning of the game, she thought I was being scummy because she misinterpreted me as saying she came online when she never did. I understand that you find me as being scummy. How so?
6-@Osashi, who just posted: Agatha asked for a 1 day grace period if you will, so I gave her that, and she became pretty active, whereas you on the other hand became way less active after your first read list. "Note: I think kezoki changed his mindset from inactive = useless to scummy = useless" what does that mean?

I was questioning why your shifted your attention on me rather than Agatha because in the earlier days, you seem to always be lynching the one that haven't talk at all.
Well, basically we got 0 info by lynching kenzo and jenina, and I already posted my current read-list with you being the scummiest imo. Already explained the Agatha part, and you can also read what Mizuho said.

Can I ask why you are so quick to lynch?

I mean Day 2 you lynch agatha right off the bat and day 3 you also lynched me pretty early.

Actually my lynch on you was for personal reasons, I thought I'd have limited times to check the game this week, due to midterms, and I thought I should lynch the person I find scummiest in case I don't get on again. The agatha lynch was fast because I was sure we were going to lynch her until she came on later.

Further explains his lynches at this point.

Kezoki Q. wrote:
Osashi D. wrote:

Kezoki Q as Leaning Scum: I must admit that some of my posts regarding Kezoki early on is bias. First of all, I really wanted to keep playing in this game so I kind panicked that he lynched me. However, it is not totally due to personal feelings as I already said that he may be scum during Day 2 which was not influenced by panicking. His posts early on were scummy to me. He quickly changed his mind when lynching and had a mindset of inactive = scummy. This can be seen as lynch-happy because he was reckless to make decisions, especially when he says things like "i don't care if this is scummy af but I have my reasons". The fact that he responded to my first read list with sarcasm gives of a mafia feel to me. Also when I questioned he lynch, he would say things like "Do you have a better idea?" which to me gives off a feeling that he is lynch-happy. He even admitted that he lynched me early because he thought he wouldn't have enough time to post, which to me, implies that he is afraid of me lynching him first. Kezoki also mentions the inactives often during the end of this day, maybe he is just trying to sway attention?

I'll reply to this part and we can decide what to do then. Lynch-Happy is not a bad thing. Lynch-Happy = agressive, and to be honest I am always aggressive, whether as town or mafia. That's just how I play. You can't just say hey this guys wants to lynch people so he's obviously scum, the objective of this game is to find out who the mafia is, people crack under pressure, and the best way to pressure them is to lynch them.
I did not respond to your first list with sarcasm, I legit found a hole in it, and explained my point. And yes, I stand on my decision to call out the inactives. Guilty until proven innocent IMO, and the more you stay away from the game during important moments, the guiltier you are.

Explains that lynch-happy does not necessarily mean aggressive, and says something similar to Agatha "I am always aggressive": basically referring to his playstyle out of psanon, which we can't know whatsoever. He also encourages activity in an underhanded way in this post.

Kezoki Q. wrote:
Agatha A. wrote:Knowing I am probably next, it doesn't really matter if I look a bit more scummy anymore. Though I do want to ask you all one thing, can you PLEASE just stop calling me scummy because I had forgotten about the game? PLEASE, it's really annoying to be called scummy for starting to try to help after being forgetful about the game for a bit and then people coming with such excuses for why they think I'm scummy. Come with something legit, please. Come with something about what I said, not about what I DIDN'T say. And the thing with not being interested, while I could of course lie, after getting my role pm I was kind of disappointed because I wouldn't get to make plans to kill everyone in the game, though meanwhile this game has gotten interesting for me. With that said.
lynch kezoki q.

So you decided to lynch me out of nowhere, without explaining why?
Osashi please stay for a bit, we should really make a decision.

Asks for Osashi to wait so that they can lynch someone; sadly, this does not end up working out.

Kezoki Q. wrote:Well basically now I can no longer remove my Osashi lynch because I would be lynched then... I'm not even sure who is scum anymore, but I can't afford to change my lynch :/

The point he brings up here is actually the fault of all of us; we all also did force him into this situation, not just Agatha, and as a result did get Osashi lynched.

Kezoki Q. wrote:I don't think so.
And guys we're doing this all wrong, we know our timezones are different yet no one posts for the whole 3 days, we wait until it's a few hours before deadline and start throwing accusations, knowing full well we won't be able to discuss it properly. We filled 4 pages in a few hours.

Yeah, this is a serious problem. We all need to be active and post as much as possible (yes, I know i'm failing at this, but i'll try harder, alright?)

Kezoki Q. wrote:Change of plans I will be able to post for the next couple of hours, I'd really like to hear from Nicolai now that he's been subbed. And I'd like to say that brendan somehow found kenzo to be scummy when kenzo hadn't posted a single thing (I think). He also claimed to have read the whole thing and then had some awkward posts indicating he had no idea who was lynched. This is why I'm for the Brendan lynch, but I've been accused of being too lynch-happy so I'll wait until I hear from Mizuho and Warden, who I trust the most, from Nicolai who hasn't had a single post and obviously from Brendan to explain this particular point.

Kezoki was one of the most aggressive towards Brendan, not sure why. I think I already explained why those posts of Brendan's weren't scummy before, not gonna comment on them again.

Kezoki Q. wrote:New Read List since I haven't done one in a while:
Brendan - Scum: "Just from skimming Im finding Kenzo as the scummiest. More opinions to come." This was said knowing that kenzo never said anything.

Wakana - Scum: No posts in a while. And even then most of the posts were either filler, or saying something that was already said by someone else. "So somebody want to sum it up for me please" this was posted 10 min before the deadline, knowing full well no one could sum up 4 whole pages in less than 10 min, I'd say he just said this to make it seem like he tried to participate in the lynch.

Natchi - Town: Few posts, but meaningful, he's guiding the town in the right direction, I'd trust him to lead the next lynch.

Mizuho - Town: Towniest player since the beginning of the game, has made some accusations in the last few days, but has also defended people, which makes me believe he is town just because he's taking his time to see both sides of any argument. Calm and fair.

Warden - Town: Seems to be the only person to think Mizuho (or Mizuno, call her whatever I don't care xD) is scummy, but he does bring up some interesting points, only problem with him is that he hasn't posted at all when we were pressured to lynch, but it could be justified. Hoping from some more posts from you, since they've been helpful so far. I especially want to know why you think Wakana is town, when he is one of my prime suspects.

Agatha - Neutral: My only neutral read as I don't even know what to think about her (yes, her). After I gave her a chance, she convinced me with a pretty good read list and some good posts that she was town, that was until just before the last deadline, where she got me confused by accusing people left and right, posting some stuff I didn't understand, and jumping on Mizuho (I think), seeing as there are some scummier players, I'm deeming her as neutral.

Nicolai - Scum: 2 users have now been using the account, not one single post...

TLDR : Scum Team : Brendan - Wakana - Nicolai

I've already covered Brendan. For Wakana, he notes her inactivity and her fillery posts for her last couple (although the most recent ones weren't very fillery, but a bit defensive). States that Mizuho is towny due to neutrality, something i'd agree with. The read on Warden is interesting; he sticks with his idea that Warden has been consistently contributing well to the town, and also townreads him. Neutral read on Agatha because she's been pro-town after a scummy start, I think.

Kezoki Q. wrote:I don't think warden and Mizuho are together, since Warden keeps getting his name wrong xD.

Filler here, also something I don't think is very valid. I think they aren't on a scumteam solely because of how against each other they were. Then again, I could be wrong.

Kezoki Q. wrote:So I gathered some stuff to help us out, the scum teams according to every user. This should be pretty helpful once we lynch a mafia:
Warden: Mizuho - Nicolai - Brendan
Mizuho: Brendan - Warden - Nicolai
Brendan: Agatha - Natchi - Nicolai
Kezoki: Brendan - Wakana - Nicolai
Natchi: Brendan - Nicolai - Wakana
Agatha: Nicolai - Kezoki - Mizuho
Wakana: ???
Nicolai: ???

Totals:
-6 People think that Nicolai is scum. That is everyone who already posted
-4 People think Brendan is scum. That is everyone but himself and Agatha
-2 People think Mizuho is scum (Agatha + Warden)
-2 people think Wakana is scum (Kezoki + Natchi)
-1 person thinks Warden is scum (Mizuho)
-1 person thinks Kezoki is scum (Agatha)
-1 person thinks Agatha is scum (Brendan)
-1 person thinks Natchi is scum (Brendan)

Basically, everyone is suspected by atleast someone, I want to urge Wakana and Nicolai to post, especially Nicolai.

I don't think this is a good method to use as a lynch; if we do this, we're going to lynch town almost every time.

Kezoki Q. wrote:Well we seriously lost this game because of the amount of inactivity gdi. Natchi Nicolai would have been lynched anyway, there's no such thing as a hammer in this game. Lynches only occur at deadline

This seems overly... not sure what the word I want to say is. Dramatic? Defeated? This just comes across as scummy to me.

by Natchi F. Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:16 am

Oh god, I have to do Mizuho now. Goodbye, several hours.

by Natchi F. Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:12 am

Time for the one, the only... Mizuho!
oh god, what have I gotten myself into

Mizuho N. wrote:Ok so we have until the 27th to discuss our first impressions....so we have enough time....that is if we all contribute which atm is unlikely.

Guys this really isnt acceptable to say the least. I know it has only been 2 days, only 4 people actually spoke, 2 actually contributing to the game in some form. (That being me and Wakana). The other 2 (Agatha and Kezoki) have said "Hmm...I lost my name" and "Kezoki crush mafia like little bug" respectively. Seriously?! I mean I guess Kezoki was the first post in the game so its not as fair to pick him out but agatha has seen that 2 content posts has happened, she could give her thoughts or at least contributed in someway....

Saying that "I have nothing to say that contributes to the game" is no excuse to post irrelevant stuff. If you cant comment on something that has happened or give an opinion, then at least try to add something new to the board like making evidence (not forging of course but like set up traps and stuff. Or even just interpreting data in a different way so stuff can be seen in another percpective.)

Jesus Christ I have blabbered on for long enough, but I just cant stress enough how EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU need to contribute.....its that important.

Here is a smiley face to get out of the serious mood

One of the first large text-posts of the game, encourages everyone to be active and shows how Mizuho is intentionally or unintentionally becoming the town leader with how she is trying to improve town and make all the town members help out.

Mizuho N. wrote:Just before I say my point, I want to point out that there is a user on hidden status which is interesting and iirc is against the rules. I am not sure if its in our game or game 11 but just wanted to point that out.
Also I want to point out that Warden H. has been online Today at 1:58 am (UTC + 01:00) so he has clearly seen the fact he was lynched + the fact he would get lynched if deadline was today + the game has actually started with SOME content going...so why has he not posted anything? This also applies to Kenzo U. as he was last seen Today at 3:11 am (UTC + 01:00) so yeah..... lurkers perhaps?

Points out anything that could hurt town, like users on hidden status (who tend to be lurkers). Also points out people who have been lurking but don't have hidden status on - Warden and Kenzo. This is generally pro-town since she's pointing out people who could potentially hurt town through inactivity and general unhelpfulness.

Mizuho N. wrote:
Osashi D. wrote:Hey guys, sorry for not being active early earlier but I for sure will be throughout the game. Gonna catch up from what others have posted, but since there hasn't been much activity I don't think I can come up with a read list yet.
A read list as such isn't THAT important Day 1, but whats important is that people still provide their opinions and their interpretation of what is going on so we can discuss it and come to a conclusion.

So lets have a topic to discuss....
Should Agatha be lynched Day 1?
So here is a summary of the reasons for and against with the names of who stated them.

For:
Wakana: Her nonsense post seems like Toran D in game 8 where she will lurk, filter and go defensive and trolly/inactive players should be lynched because they dont help town despite the mislynch.

Mizuho: I am going to add that lynching someone will prevent a randomly generated vote from happening which could lead to an innocent or helpful town dying. Since this is a rather inactive game then if the active players are killed then mafia do have a free game.

Against:
Mizuho: I also want to put in that she hasnt really posted anything so its an early scum read and not only that but she hasnt defended herself yet. Although I guess the fact that she is inactive still stands....

So feel free to add what you like to this list (ofc it has to be related to the case lol) so that tomorrow (the deadline day) we can come to a conclusion. So far it looks like Agatha should be lynched.

Rather than solely stating her side, Mizuho tries to show all the points of view on an issue; this staying neutral on an issue seems towny to me.

Mizuho N. wrote:
Kezoki Q. wrote:Mizuho, the only way we can get someone to talk is to let them get close to being hammered. This is why I bw'd. It might seem scummy but it's the only way to get the game going.
That would work, but not in this game since hammer does not actually exist because of plurality. So actually it doesnt make a difference. But what I am saying is that all you did was BW but you could have actually inputted your views and thoughts instead of blaming it on inactiveness.

Here, Mizuho counters Kezoki's point that quicklynching is good, because she says that it could lead to the hammering of someone without much discussion; this is bad as we could have instead discussed and lynched someone who is scummy.

Mizuho N. wrote:
Natchi F. wrote:What do you mean "didn't really work well," Mizuho?
You have to know about Game 9 to understand these Robert O. Refrences lol

This is an example of some of the filler that Mizuho has done; there wasn't very much from when I looked, though.

Mizuho N. wrote:I meant to say that I still have my lynch on Kenzo. But yeah I just realised how scummy he was. He came online like 2 days after day 1 started and content was spurring around (the agatha thing) and he didnt post and he hasnt came back to make up for that. Like warden started becoming fairly active after that time which could give a town vibe (however it could ve because he is scared) but he has CLEARLY SEEN that there have been stuff happening but he does nothing....not even post. This kinda ties in with jenina and nikolai nonsene posts after clearly seeing shit is happening. In fact agatha only did a nonsense post on an early stage so it wasnt as bad since there wasnt that much to go around....

So yeah I guess I see what you mean about the jenina/nikolai thing, but I shall keep my lynch on Kenzou, that is just plain unacceptable....

Comments on how Kenzo is lurking and generally being useless and ties it to Jenina&Nicolai, who were seen as scummy and/or useless.

Mizuho N. wrote:NOOOOOO FFS I HAD A MASSIVE POST TYPED UP AND I JUST FINISHED AND THEN INTERNET SUDDENLY DOESNT WANT TO FUCKING WORK AND IT ALL GOT DELETED!

I will redo it later today but i doubt it will be like anything up to the original's standard....I dont ev- AAAARGH!

This happens quite a lot to you... You must have really shitty internet. (This also counts as filler, in a sense).

Mizuho N. wrote:Anyway so this game has experienced a massive depression in activeness...

Just wanna point something out, when we say that we are lynching the scummiest player, are we actually doing that? Or are we lynching the least towny..... (Come on Mizuho dont be ridiculous now they are both the same thing) to that I say OBJECTION! because theoretically, someone can act towny but still be scummy in a way. At the moment we actually look at the balance between town and scum...but should we be doing that? Again in theory, its the scumminess that makes people scum, not the towniness that makes people town. (If you dont understand what I am trying to say then I apologize because i really dont know how to explain it)

So I want to add something new to the table. A scumread of everyone! So here it is.

Kezoki - Your posts are a bit "hazy". Although you are complaining about inactives, you are kinda inactive yourself, not in terms of posting, but in terms of content that you are posting. Literally barely any of the content actually helps town...that is until you posted the agatha thing which I would say is pretty good...but still i felt that the fact you waited until now to say something very helpful to town is a bit fishy to me.

Wakana - Although posts seem town, there isnt actually much content posted or in other words, she is half active. This could mean that she is trying to look town but keep the post count low so that you cant catch her out for scum. In addition there have been a few places where I saw Wakana come online but not post anything, but I sorta ignored them, suggesting that she could be lurking. Also the Toran thing was a little farfetch'd which could suggest she is trying to mislead us.... (this piece of analysis is a bit harsh but wynaut)

Agatha - As Kezoki said, Agatha asked for a summary but has not taken any action after almost 2 days. This suggests that she is trying to make us believe she is going to be towny and co-operative but clearly she isnt. There is also a fishy thing between Natchi and Agatha, I will explain that in Natchi's read.

Kenzo - Came online but never posted....lurker prehaps?....

Brendan - Same as Kenzo

Warden - You come here from time to time and posts a townread or two, this gives the impression that you are coasting through the game as you are just townreading people and really we wanna find scum. You might say that you think no one is scum but jeez, I dont think you will after you see this lol.

Natchi F. Gradually going on the defensive side when before you were very active and in a way, keen to lynch Jenina. What I really didnt understand is that why were you so persistant on Jenina? Like you only mentioned Nicolai a bit later but you always directed the attention on Jenina and as a result Agatha was saved....scumteam prehaps? Seriously, compared to Day 1, you have done almost nothing Day 2.

Nicolai - No comment.... (see why Jenina has been lynched for the same reasons)

Mizuho - He is gr8, i r8 8/8, no db8 jus appreci8 m8.

Osashi - The way you started pressing on Kezoki then abruptly stopped, made question marks appeared over my head. Could it be that Osashi is a scumteam with Kezoki and just did this as a facade to make sure no one suspects them as a team? And then Kezoki was confused and started replying back rudely? (Although i just said this, I actually disagree with my own point because Osashi kept the lynch on Kezoki and there is something called quicktopic so i doubt mafia would ever be confused of each other's actions.) Also its weird because you asked a question to Kezoki so that he can answer. I believe he did elaborate and you did specify that you lynched him to spur conversation....so your wish came true and conversation has been spurred, if you were a townie, surely that means you would check regularly especially at that point because of the fact it was your question, and you were the one who lynched him, so you are the one who wants the info a bit more than anyone else....

That's all folks! To get all these scumreads I had to go SUPER AGGRO so yeah lol. Some of them were a little harsh tho. Feel free to add to the lists!

Essentially, this provided scummy things each person has done after Mizuho provided an interesting interpretation of who could be scum.I've gotten extremely tired at this point, I'll can analyze Mizuho more tomorrow if need be, not even sure if you guys are reading all of this anyways. I'll just be doing the others with less detail, harass me later if you want more.

Mizuho N. wrote:Well Agatha, I thank you for taking the time to post something like that as in reality, you have done more work than half of the people in the game lmao. Although half of it was sort of pleading to now be lynched.

I have to say that is a pretty big thing that you are putting Natchi F up as a probable mafia. I mean i see your reasoning so I guess its gonna be for Natchi to respond.

Now hopefully you are going to be active as you promised so i am going to help let you survive for tomorrow because really i am interested to see your input...sooooo.

Lynch Kenzo U.

Plus that was my lynch day 1 so i am gonna keep on him.

Questions Agatha's reasoning to suspect me, does see some of it as valid, and then lynches Kenzo to give Agatha a chance to be active. Sound reasoning here, nothing else to say.

Mizuho N. wrote:But then again Kenzo was lurking and he was flipped town.....MINDFUCK!!!!!

Some more filler here.

Mizuho N. wrote:I just want to comment on some that I dont quite agree/understand much.

Kezoki Q. wrote:
-Osashi : Scummy. She did post a read-list, but it was pretty much useless since literally everyone was either town, or leaning town in her opinion. IMO, she's trying to get on everyone's good side, which is a typical mafia thing to do.

I believe you were the one who was deemed as scum in her eyes....that sort of contradicts what you are saying.

Kezoki Q. wrote:
-Wakana: Competely Neutral. She (He?) seems to alternate between posting some good, useful posts and then posting a useless, filler-y one.

To be honest I havent seen any filler posts from Wakana, unless you deem the ones that she just tells inactives to be active stuff which I kinda agree is iterated. But even so, I dont see how one post makes her null.

Kezoki Q. wrote:
-Natchi: Town. I don't get why I've seen many posts saying that natchi is scummy, I haven't seen him (her?) doing anything sketchy. As far as I'm concerned he pointed out the scummiest post on day 1, and lynched accordingly, and even tho Jenina flipped town, that was more of a town move than a scummy move.

If you are talking about Agatha's accusation then that is because in Agatha's post she made an assumption that Natchi was scum because (the following text will be quoted directly from agatha's summary at the bottom of her long post) "the person that protected me might actually be mafia protecting a town to make the town look scummy, then when the townie gets lynched and flips town they look less scummy and there's yet another town eliminated, because what mafia would protect a town member?"

Points out how Kezoki is basically doing the same thing as Osashi, and clarifies various other points. Good stuff.

Mizuho N. wrote:Anyway i was gonna do this yesterday but i didnt have time so i am doing this now. Since Osashi is the only one who has been voted to be lynched and deadline is in 2 days....should Osashi be lynched?

For lynching Osashi:

Kezoki - Trying to get on people's good side since everyone was deemed town by her.

Agatha - Not very active nor very useful to town.

Mizuho - Doesnt care much about town. The reason for this point is because when she pressured Kezoki about a question, she never attempted to check back until deadline day i believe which shows she doesnt care about knowing the answer to the question so that she can decide on who to lynch (as she just kept on Kezoki and didnt come back).

Against Lynching Osashi:

Natchi - Kezoki and Natchi have been deemed neutral by her which contradicts Kezoki's point. Making it false.

Mizuho - has made some good contributions with her thoughts and pressured effectively.

Once again, giving a neutral opinion/all of the views when it comes to lynching someone (in this case, Osashi).

Mizuho N. wrote:But yeah I am not actually sure about this. Osashi has delivered strong points except for the accusation of Agatha and Kezoki scumteam because that was an assumption and I am not really sure but I have a little feeling Osashi is a little bit desperate against Kezoki with all the scumteams and...idk. But i do agree with dem flaws in Kezoki's reads. (I mean I did sorta point them out in the first place so of course I agree lol).

Kezoki on the other hand seems to respond well to Osashi and doesnt show any signs of nervousness which is what normally is subtly revealed in scum's posts especially when they are pressured... The only problem with him is the quick lynches with reasons that arent very solid.

Agatha atm I dont see much scuminess on her although there are some reads in her list that are a bit odd and vague. I dont like her read on me tho, I prefer for her to actually look back and read carefully the history of the game. If not then ideas are not originated. For example if there is a point that is forming in your mind, looking at the history of the game can let you link evidence and come up with a solid case.

Talks about the three lynch options on the table: Osashi, Agatha, and Kezoki; does show that Osashi is getting a bit desperate (she definitely was), talks about how Kezoki isn't nervous whatsoever (not like he had a reason to, he was the first to lynch and really wasn't in any danger of being lynched), and has a neutral-ish read on Agatha due to her being somewhat confusing.

Mizuho N. wrote:I just read through the posts and saw a lot of "what if"s. I think evidence should be present as well as a load of if statements (programming joke). But i understand that there isnt much evidence about what Osashi really thought of Kenzo but oh well.

Some more filler, the programming joke era here haha

Mizuho N. wrote:
Natchi F. wrote:
Mizuho N. wrote:I just read through the posts and saw a lot of "what if"s. I think evidence should be present as well as a load of if statements (programming joke). But i understand that there isnt much evidence about what Osashi really thought of Kenzo but oh well.
Given that these if statements are not the best evidence, what else do you suggest we do? Surely, provide concrete evidence? While this may be a good idea, i'm certain that an argument could occur that would make us go in circles(or loops, maybe? )

Well we are gonna have to try to compile our thoughts which could translate them to an executable file (evidence). Except ScumError. Which means we have to trace the posts.

Kezoki Q. wrote:
That's the point, why would Osashi, if she was town, strongly believe that another guy, who barely posted anything, is town. That's exactly what I found scummy, she only said "hey this guy is town don't lynch him", so that when he does flip town, she'd seem like the good guy who didn't want Kenzo to be lynched.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Valid point I guess, but, if I was mafia, that nervousness you're speaking of wouldn't be showing a whole 4 days before the deadline, and also I wouldn't be that obvious and OMGUS like that.
1: She already stated why she believed so, iirc: that generally, the inactives tend to be town. Something like that, anyways.

She said that? To be honest i didnt think she did, but if so then thats completely false and I am sure you guys know why.

2: However, knowing that town generally trusts you a bit more than Osashi (which is at least what i've been able to tell by posts), why would you lynch other than to save yourself from when Osashi would inevitably (in your view) lynch you?
But i dont understand, when did he say "Osashi is gonna lynch me so i ma lynch Osashi"? And tbh i dont actually think Kezoki is trusted more than Osashi, i feel they are equal in trustworthiness.

States that Kezoki isn't more trusted than Osashi, but that may just be her opinion; I know that I and other people also trusted Kezoki more than Osashi (not to say that we didn't think that they were both town).

Mizuho N. wrote:
Agatha A. wrote:I'm sorry I haven't really been on yesterday, I had a lot of things to do, and same about today (IRL times, if you're wondering). I don't really know what to do atm, I could set myself safe for now by lynching osashi but I'm not really convinced osashi is mafia... I do know one thing for sure though, chances are there is a mafia that is actually one of the really active people, seeing as there are 3 people who aren't really talking and 4 who are actually really talking, and seeing as most of us know people who just don't talk during games, even when town, it's not all that weird that there are people who aren't really talking. but still, WHERE ARE YOU PEOPLE! Nicolai, Warden, Brendan...

TALK. PLEASE.

We know Warden and Brendan are here so why aren't you 2 talking? just participate for once, please...
Ignore the inactives for now, we are in a tight situation here and the deadline is in a few hours. Can you actually try to help instead of saying "I dont know what to do"? I mean you did mention the possibilites of who is scum but seriously this is important!

She tries to get Agatha to focus on what is currently important here; this could be seen as trying to avoid distractions, and is generally pro-town.

Mizuho N. wrote:
Agatha A. wrote:on another note, on your advice mizuho, I read through all your messages, and especially at the start of the game I found some strange things things that aren't really all that towny, and while we're talking about kezoki being lynch happy, he wasn't really the only one, you have been lynching people every day so far...
Did i lynch day 3? Dont think so. I believe i have explained each lynch with pretty legit reasons. Plus i dont lynch straight away which is what Osashi is implying about "Lynch Happy"

If you want i can explain them again. Warden was an RL. Then i lynched Kenzo because he was lurking. Then in day 2 i lynched him again in order to give you a chance of contributing plus kenzo, as said before was lurking.

I believe that Osashi meant that you had lynched every day, thus making you "lynch-happy."

Mizuho N. wrote:Well this is annoying. Last night I wrote up a moderately large post about analysis of what has happend and why i dont think neither Osashi nor Kezoki should be lynched and instead lynch Brendan who has been pretty scummy even tho he is inactive. But when i pressed send it told me to login, like wtf?!?!?!?! So i logged in and the whole post got deleted..... and it was 1am for me so it was WAAAY past my bedtime so i couldnt do anything...

RIP Internet.

Mizuho N. wrote:It has been a while since I put up a proper readlist so I will do that now. So lets begin!

Kezoki Q.- Neutral
A good contributor to town, but a scummy one nonetheless.

Kezoki Q wrote: Mizuho, the only way we can get someone to talk is to let them get close to being hammered. This is why I bw'd. It might seem scummy but it's the only way to get the game going.

This gives me the impression that you are blinded by the fact people are only pressured by mass lynching (lynch happy) which is obviously wrong. However, in my opinion this doesnt really make him scummy. What really makes him scummy is his self-consciousness. He seems to be afraid that people are gonna say he is scummy so he always says something along the lines of "I don't care if I seem scummy af". In reality, you do, it seems like you are trying to give an excuse for your actions, or maybe just make people think twice about actually calling you scum, which in my opinion is scummy.

What I do like about you, Kezoki, is that you are (as I said before) a good contributor, and is keen to make town excel even if the way you do it is a bit off, it is pretty clear that you are intending to help town (inb4 this is completely false and I got tricked). Because in your posts you seem to be wanting for something to happen, rather than just going with the flow, posting a readlist here and there, and just post stuff that makes you look town but doesnt actually help.

Agatha A.- Leaning Town
It's strange, you seem to be working hard on the progress of town and trying to be as active as possible; yet most people think you are scum. The only problem I have with you is that your reads seem to be lacking in evidence. I mean the ideas you give are interesting, but the fact that barely any evidence exists sorta makes me think the post is a passive filler. Other than that good job!

Warden H.- Leaning Scum
Am I the only one who doesnt think you are town? lmao. The fact that you started questioning my scumlist is pretty effective (except for the Boolean thought which I will explain in my next point) and straight to the point. I have noticed however, while you were pressing me, that you are thinking in Boolean. So that if something is True, then there must be something False. Basically the idea of PoE and your style in general. I believe I have explained in an earlier post as to why Boolean isnt very effective so i dont feel the need to cover it again. There are a few reasons why I think you are scummy too.

Warden H. wrote:Mod: Sub out all the inactives?

I like osashi for town, the way she's pushing kezoki doesnt seem forced or desperate.

This is just an example as this is not the only post that makes me think this, but this gives me the impression that you are coasting through the game. I am not talking about the activeness by the way... The fact that you only say your town reads make me think this because it sorta has this feeling that you are getting on people's good side, of course you put me down as null but then again it could be the fact you dont wanna be obvious. (I am not talking about the most recent post you did because you never actually elaborated yet, you just stated them) Also the fact that you mention Kezoki's name but not give a read for him also strikes me. Because you obviously know what he has done since you are seen the game and gave a read on Osashi. One conclusion I can draw from this is that you want to keep your posts brief and not mention Kezoki becuase you noticed the Kezoki is the type to attack you if he is involved in one of your posts. So you didnt want to get into any sort of trouble and keep safe. One more thing, I really disliked how you completely ignored the Kezoki vs Osashi thing which is arguably the most important case at the time and just kept pressing. And the statement you pressed with which was:

Warden H. wrote: Mizuno, could you explain what you concluded from the "everyone is scum" list?

This really annoyed me, not only is it because it was literally the only thing you said and completely ignoring what was happening, it was also because I already explained the point of the scumlist so really this basically isnt useful at all and just pointless pressing.

Wakana O.- Leaning Town

Despite your inactiveness, your posts are very helpful and pro-town. To be honest I dont really find anything scummy about you. Oh yeah I need to type up that summary for you dont I. I will do that after this read list.

Natchi F.- Leaning Town

I was so happy when you subbed in, your contribution to town with your analytic posts is excellent! The problem is you have streaks of inactiveness and it would be really nice if you were active as well as analysing in pro-town standard.

Nicolai I.- Null

Please dont tell me the sub is also inactive.....ugh! I dunno but it seems a little strange that both players are inactive, are they hiding something? A possible scum role maybe?

Brendan T.- Leaning Scum

Brendan T. wrote:Hey guys, REALLY sorry about the whole inactive thing, went on a vacation then never bothered to catch up. Anyhow I'm here now and have read through all 12 pages of discussion. I dont feel capable of putting together a read list just yet, but I may make one soon. Just from skimming Im finding Kenzo as the scummiest. More opinions to come.

I am gonna quote this not because of the Kenzo thing because that has been discussed. But i can't help notice the fact he said "then never bothered to catch up". Not very towny imo. Gives me the impression that you dont want town to excel, not exactly what a townie would do right? Also I would appreciate it more if you elaborated on everyone instead of grouping them with a general view.

If I would rank them in order this is how scummy I believe everyone is, top is scummiest, bottom is least scummy.

1.) Brendan T.
2.) Warden H.
3.) Nicolai I.
4.) Kezoki Q.
5.) Agatha A.
6.) Wakana O.
7.) Natchi F.

I highly doubt that Warden + Brendan is a scumteam, unless this bussing is hardcore. I would say either Warden + Nicolai or Brendan + Nicolai. I am not sure who could be the 3rd person tho...

I've talked about this before.

Mizuho N. wrote:I am gonna be patient and see if Nicolai actually posts something good, if not then I will lynch him.

This provides reasoning before the lynch as to why Mizuho lynched Nicolai.

Mizuho N. wrote:
Brendan T. wrote:
Mizuho N. wrote:I meant to say that I still have my lynch on Kenzo. But yeah I just realised how scummy he was. He came online like 2 days after day 1 started and content was spurring around (the agatha thing) and he didnt post and he hasnt came back to make up for that. Like warden started becoming fairly active after that time which could give a town vibe (however it could ve because he is scared) but he has CLEARLY SEEN that there have been stuff happening but he does nothing....not even post. This kinda ties in with jenina and nikolai nonsene posts after clearly seeing shit is happening. In fact agatha only did a nonsense post on an early stage so it wasnt as bad since there wasnt that much to go around....

So yeah I guess I see what you mean about the jenina/nikolai thing, but I shall keep my lynch on Kenzou, that is just plain unacceptable....

@kezoki posts like this that were talking about how he would come online and not post anything during times of activity was the reason that I thought of him as scummy. I didn't realize that he died because I missed aj's post saying that the day ended. Also, why does that qualify me as the scummiest person in the game? It's an honest mistake and the town lynched him for the same reasons.

Right, you aren't qualified as scummiest person as far as I know. Nicolai is the scummiest at the moment because of the fact it is strange for 2 players on the same account to be inactive and also he is plain useless.

Explains the other side (for most) for Brendan, and how he could be town.

Mizuho N. wrote:God sake really? REALLY? Why does a phone have to be so friggen annoying? Literally, touch something wrong by accident and thats a work on a post lost. I was doing a post about possible scumteams so i will quickly put them without explanation so i will explain later.

Nicolai + Brendan + Natchi
Kezoki + Agatha + Natchi
Warden + Agatha + Brendan
Nicolai + Wakana + Brendan
Warden + Kezoki + Agatha

Anyway I did say in an earlier post that I was gonna give Nicolai more time and if he doesnt say anything useful then I will lynch him.... and instead all he posts is "Tell me who I should lynch"....

Lynch Nicolai I.

Lynches after previously explaining that she would if Nicolai wasn't useful.

Mizuho N. wrote:AJ wouldn't it be potential lylo? Because say we mislynch and the 2nd most lynches was a mafia, then on the next day all 3 townies would lynch that mafia before the mafia and his scumteam lynches one of the town. Therefore one of the mafia is lynched but then again we have to keep doing that when its 2v2 and then eventually 1v1 which i have never seen before but AJ's rules that the 2nd most player with lynches on him the previous day would be in risk of being lynched....

If town manages to execute that then this game will probably be famous for executing something that requires SHEER LUCK but yeah its a very low probability of all of that to fall into place. But its nice to know that we dont necessarily lose if we mislynch.

Anyway the fact that Nicolai was a townie annoys me. Why do they bother joining the game if they are just gonna fuck up the game coz of their inactiveness? I mean i guess there is an exception because they might be mafia but there is a higher amount of town so there is a much bigger chance of them to be town... also this means over half of the suspected scumteams have fallen.

To be honest I suggest that we shouldn't be focusing on scumteams. By all means we can discuss about them its just our MAIN FOCUS is getting at least one scum lynched because we cant really progress without doing so (well we can as I have proved earlier but lets assume the worst for now).

@kezoki I dont think he is semi-clearing, merely saying that if your post was true then Brendan might be less scum.

@Natchi I disagree that it could clear him, because it is possible that Brendan was trying to go with the flow and semi-coast through the game. There are also other reasons but they are pretty obvious and some are inprobable.

I think finding scumteams is just an easy way to determine who is scum and who isn't.
I do agree though, if it doesn't work out, we should just focus on individual people.

Mizuho N. wrote:
Agatha A. wrote:It's simple, a mafia gets points for every town lynch they participate in, this is after all a tournament with points
Yeah but a town also gets points for every lynch they get correct so it is possible that he was positive that Nicolai was scum and lynched to gain points. But it backfired instead. So i guess we dont know the reasoning behind it. This means we need Brendan to come on.

Mizuho explains reasoning on the town side for Agatha's valid point here.

by Natchi F. Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:32 am

So, you ask... What is this even useful for?
I have no idea!
I have my reads after all this analysis now.

Brendan - Seems to go with his gut quite often, hasn't contributed much, had an iffy lynch on Nicolai. I'm leaning scum on him because he doesn't seem to bring up much concrete evidence with his points and is generally vague.

Warden - Warden has gradually changed his views over the course of the game, and has made some interesting points. He has often been at odds with Mizuho over various things. He doesn't provide a large amount of evidence/points for his reads, but generally gives one or two valid ones. The fact that he doesn't provide a lot of evidence coupled with his inactivity and tendency to go with gut feelings have me putting him into the leaning scum category.

Wakana - Another inactive, did have more patience than I with the useless three (Jenina, Nicolai, Kenzo); generally been towny in her posts, although they are few and far between; her last couple came across as defensive. She has analyzed Warden and Brendan and it seems like she thinks they are scum. She has been criticized by others for fillering a lot. She has aspects of her posts that seem to be scummy, but she gives off a pro-town vibe and generally makes high-quality posts whenever she does post (which is rarely). I've got a neutral read on her.

Agatha - She constantly states that she will "go with her gut" and that "if I was mafia, I wouldn't do A" or "I wouldn't do B" and seems to constantly be making excuses for any slip-ups she may make. However, she has contributed quite a lot and other parts of her posts seem town-like. However, the scummy aspects of her posts simply outweigh the pro-town parts. As a result, I think Agatha is scum.

Kezoki - Kezoki is an interesting case. As I did analysis for him, I noticed how much his playstyle changed to become a lot more cautious and how he does seem to be in great opposition and at the same time somehow in cahoots with Agatha. It's a strange relationship the two have; one moment they are working together, the next they are at each other's throats. Not sure what to even make of that. He also has been very quick to lynch, although he has had valid reasons for most of the lynches (excluding Osashi, which was EXTREMELY OMGUSsy). I've got a neutral read on him.

So, here we are.
Town
Mizuho
Neutral
Wakana
Kezoki
Leaning Scum/Scum
Warden
Brendan
Agatha

Now, what do I think the scumteam is? I honestly do not think it is Warden + Brendan + Agatha. I think it's Warden/Brendan + Agatha + Wakana/Kezoki. I'm going to try and add in stuff tomorrow, because i'm far too tired to do anything else for today lol

Hopefully this helps and/or generates discussion.

Mizuho - Extremely town; the only one on here that i'm sure about being town (knowing me and my scumhunting skills, she'll turn out mafia). She has stayed neutral throughout and has always provided towny reactions and posts, whether it be pointing out dangerous activity or simply being the first to encourage town to be active.

by **ajhockeystar** Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:29 am

Votecount 5.1
******************************
Brendan T.(0)-
Osashi D.(0)-
Kezoki Q.(0)-
Agatha A.(0)-
Warden H.(0)-
Mizuho N.(0)-
Wakana O.(0)-
Natchi F.(0)-
Not Voting(7)- Natchi F., Wakana O., Osashi D., Agatha A., Warden H., Kezoki Q., Mizuho N., Brendan T.
******************************
There are 7 alive so it takes 4 to hammer. Plurality applies.
The village is in lylo.
Deadline is Monday the 15th at 9pm EST.

If the deadline was now, Brendan T. would be lynched.

by Agatha A. Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:23 am

Tyvm natchi, you made me realise something. Though first: Dammit people why do you always have to misinterpretate my posts...
I will explain this further when I get on my computer.

As to what I realized, mizuho stays neutral. Neutral. Might seem towny but think about it, if you're mafia and can't place yourself into the view of a towny, what would be the best thing to do? Not lurking, not watching things from a mafia perspective, It's watching things from a neutral perspective. That's easier to act out.

by Agatha A. Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:27 am

Oh right, forgot about this, mizuho seems a bit too perfect. A mafia is more likely to act extremely towny than an actual towny on forums mafia, they will think out what they say a lot more, thus being perfect towny way more. Doesn't mean mizuho is scum, but it is important to keep in mind.

by Agatha A. Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:06 am

Natchi F. wrote:Now it starts getting hard: the people who have posted a lot. Starting with Agatha!

Agatha A. wrote:addition: I think I kind of get what's going on now... meaning what I just did is scummy in a way, if I'm not interested I'd want to get lynched to get out, if I'm mafia that'll trigger a nightkill blahblahblah... yeah I'm seriously being scummy right now.

Another thing, I'm actually someone who contributes a lot when being mafia, though of course this isn't really so easy to say seeing as we don't know who is who xD either way, I'm not usually a lurker and I tend to pay attention when I'm mafia.

and then last: okay I got saved by someone but what does that actually say about me? Nothing if you ask me, it might have just been a mafia trick to get me to be scummy, and if I were to get lynched and would flip town the mafia would be back to not-so-scummy, right? After all, which mafia member in the right mind protects a town member? If you guys could let me live at least 1 day I would be very happy so I can show you guys that I was actually just being forgetful, if you still think I'm scummy after that, go ahead, lynch me. But it would make me really happy if you wouldn't lynch me this day but instead look at who is actually SCUMMY instead of who isn't useful for town, after all, the most town-like people could also flip mafia, there are several players in the mafia room I know that play perfect town while being mafia, though with those there's always something about it that activates my scum radar.

summary of what I just said: please let me live 1 more day, give me the chance to prove that I am actually just forgetful, there's nothing really I can say in my defense. If you do want to lynch me, keep a few things in mind. 1). the person that protected me might actually be mafia protecting a town to make the town look scummy, then when the townie gets lynched and flips town they look less scummy and there's yet another town eliminated, because what mafia would protect a town member? That's my thought on that, so if you lynch me, keep that in mind. 2). there are several people in the mafia room I know that play perfect town while being mafia, they do everything like a town player would, though those always have something that's off. That's something that appears on my scum-radar. Lynch me and lose that if you want to, or if you don't trust me.
States that if she was mafia, she wouldn't care and would just let herself get killed so she could take out town. Valid point, I guess. Says she "contributes more as mafia" even though we have no idea who she is and thus we cannot validate this. Next, she brings up a convoluted argument which she retracts later. Finally, she asks for one day to "prove herself" and tries to appear nonchalant about being lynched once again.

wait what? The whole point was that I would probably not forget the game if I was mafia... and I wouldn't act much differently if I were to be mafia.

Agatha A. wrote:not much time left, 10 hours until deadline iirc

on another note, I wouldn't have done such a big message with so much pleading for myself if I believed it wasn't neccesary, it takes a lot of effort and I'm lazy so yeah...

Tries to say that she wouldn't put in effort if she was mafia (essentially).

I said "if I believed it wasn't necessary", if I would be mafia I would still put in just as much effort, possibly even more. Yet again a misinterpretation of my words.

Agatha A. wrote:I would make a scumlist but I feel like that would hinder more than it would help seeing as I don't really know much about anyone, I've only read the things that happened after my second post, which doesn't really give me a good idea of what's going on. Seeing as I don't know what's going on a scumlist coming from me right now would be purely guts and I'd rather not trust on my guts, when they work they are never mistaken, only they're lazy and only work 1/10 times, and when it works I'll notice.

Basically says that she would make a scumlist but she feels it wouldn't be accurate because it would be based off of gut feelings and because she hasn't read back completely (mainly the second reason).

Agatha A. wrote:Kezoki Q.: Mainly townread but there are a few things which are a bit odd, for example how at november 29 he posted that I came online while I came online at november 30, which is a bit odd, it would only benefit mafia to put me in a sticky situation right? and that could have put me in a really sticky situation, even stickier than it is now. for the rest just a few strange things but nothing else.

Natchi F.: Townread, seriously townread, I know I've had the possibility of him being scum before but that was because I didn't feel like looking into the situation back then, lazy which made me stupid. He was just being logical, why lynch someone who might get subbed out over someone who actually still looks at the game but posts things like "I can't contribute into this conversation so I'll just post so I'm active"?

Wakana O.: That's not a lot of posts you know? And all of those were kind of attacking specific people who were already kind of getting attacked... kind of scummy...

Warden H.: Hasn't said much but what he's said was all logical and was to help town, except for a few of the earlier posts... But for now I'm thinking he's not really scummy.

Nicolai I.: on the 26th of november "I'm here now" yeah I don't really see you... could you like, post? That would help out...

Brendan: Even worse, WHERE ARE YOU! You only confirmed... yeah as if that helps, get over here!

Osashi D.: You posted a readlist but it was early on in the game and it wasn't very complete, guess I can't really blame you? still please get a bit more active and be more useful for town... it's just meh with you... I don't really know

and finally Mizuho N.: I seriously can't be bothered to read through all of that, 4 pages and I doubt there's much interesting in there, probably all townish things from what I've seen from you.

Notes that Kezoki made some interesting comments that tried to put her in the figurative hot seat, interesting. Also reverses her read on me completely. Next, says Wakana generally attacks people who are already being attacked (which I don't think is true from when i've looked at her posts, although she does post rarely). Regarding Warden, says that his posts helped town out, although there were not many of them. Notes that Nicolai and Brendan are inactive. Asks Osashi to be a bit more active. Comments that Mizuho seems "townish."

Agatha A. wrote:if I'm absolutely honest my gut is telling me Osashi but I'd rather not rely on my gut too much so I don't really know what to do right now.

Once again brings up acting on gut feelings, interestingly enough.

Agatha A. wrote:Yesterday I had read through kezoki and a few others and then I clicked on the wrong thing which made my message disappear, seeing as I had the idea in my mind of kezoki being kinda scummy I thought there were more strange things but the only strange things have already been said. About Natchi, I know I said that a bit much but it was more like a "yeah I was wrong about that, I actually have him as townread now", when I just looked back at it I don't know why I phrased it that way... but meh, the point of it is the same, townread. Also, bussing? I guess that's being nice to people and making them townreads so they don't lynch you? yeah that was unintentional... oh well

Gets annoyed when I note that the way she changed her read is bussing, says that she was "being nice" which is interesting, since changing your mind isn't necessarily "being nice." Saying that she was "being nice" makes it sound like she still thinks i'm scum while not saying so.

I interpreted being nice from the context it was in, if it's about getting on someone's good side then it's only logical being nice is a part of it. I didn't say I was being nice. And what exactly made it seem like I still thought you were scummy? And of course... what makes me seem annoyed? I don't remember being annoyed about that.

Agatha A. wrote:I'm sorry I haven't really been on yesterday, I had a lot of things to do, and same about today (IRL times, if you're wondering). I don't really know what to do atm, I could set myself safe for now by lynching osashi but I'm not really convinced osashi is mafia... I do know one thing for sure though, chances are there is a mafia that is actually one of the really active people, seeing as there are 3 people who aren't really talking and 4 who are actually really talking, and seeing as most of us know people who just don't talk during games, even when town, it's not all that weird that there are people who aren't really talking. but still, WHERE ARE YOU PEOPLE! Nicolai, Warden, Brendan...

TALK. PLEASE.

We know Warden and Brendan are here so why aren't you 2 talking? just participate for once, please...

Emphasizes that the inactives need to talk, interestingly doesn't include Wakana (perhaps because she had posted recently?). She says that she doesn't think Osashi is mafia and thus does not lynch her.

Agatha A. wrote:on another note, on your advice mizuho, I read through all your messages, and especially at the start of the game I found some strange things things that aren't really all that towny, and while we're talking about kezoki being lynch happy, he wasn't really the only one, you have been lynching people every day so far...

Says she finds "strange things" (basically filler) that don't seem towny, but neglects to point them out. Also says that Mizuho has been as lynch-happy as Kezoki, voting every day (although she hasn't switched her vote as much).

Agatha A. wrote:also, little thing about my gut feeling: it's actually more of a voice in my head or something, when I'm about to lynch someone every now and then something in my head just tells me to lynch the other person against all logic.

Explains what her "gut feeling" is; basically a voice that tells her to vote the opposite way of what she thinks she should do (that may be schizophrenia, get that checked out). Perhaps she's trying to use this "gut feeling" as a crutch to fall back on?

It's hard to explain, it's not actually a voice it's just... yeah... but not schizophrenia.
Agatha A. wrote:there's a difference between trusting, and following, I don't agree with osashi's lynch, but I do trust osashi, I trust that they are town. That's what I mean by trust, and that's what I mean by being illogical, right now you would probably say trusting mizuho and natchi is logical, but I'm not always logical.

Explains how trusting someone doesn't mean you agree with them. It simply means you think they are town, but it does not mean that you think that the decisions they are making are always correct. Says that she isn't logical, perhaps as a mean to explain actions that seem strange?

Agatha A. wrote:Kezoki reply: assuming only town wants the game to be active, everyone is (hopefully) in this for the fun, and in a dead game it isn't really fun is it? as town it's fun to figure out who the mafia is, as mafia it's fun to win without being seen as scum at any point, or maybe you find it more fun to survive while being seen as one of the most scummy players? who knows, still, a game isn't fun if it's dead. That's the thing about Mizuho, and some other posts of which I'm like "why... just why?", posts that are just fillering to me. For the rest nothing odd really but still.

Town would certainly want the game to be active, but mafia may as well to create a fun game or so that they seem town. Brings up that Mizuho is fillering, but fails once again to point out specific posts. (I'll be analyzing her later - oh god, that's gonna suck - so i'll be able to find the filler if it exists).

Agatha A. wrote:Knowing I am probably next, it doesn't really matter if I look a bit more scummy anymore. Though I do want to ask you all one thing, can you PLEASE just stop calling me scummy because I had forgotten about the game? PLEASE, it's really annoying to be called scummy for starting to try to help after being forgetful about the game for a bit and then people coming with such excuses for why they think I'm scummy. Come with something legit, please. Come with something about what I said, not about what I DIDN'T say. And the thing with not being interested, while I could of course lie, after getting my role pm I was kind of disappointed because I wouldn't get to make plans to kill everyone in the game, though meanwhile this game has gotten interesting for me. With that said.
lynch kezoki q.

Says that "she is probably next" and casts a vote for Kezoki, essentially hammering the Osashi lynch as Kezoki is unable to unvote at this point. Coincidental that this occurred, or unintentional? I have no idea. She also says that she doesn't care about appearing scummy at this point, interestingly enough. Seems to be getting annoyed that people are calling her scummy for her previous inactivity, brings up that she doesn't like being town in this game and essentially claims vanilla townie (interesting).

disappointed means you'd rather have it differently, not that you don't want it because of how it is. Once again, misinterpretation... this is like the fifth time it's plain misinterpretation.

Agatha A. wrote:While I do believe kezoki is the most scummy active player right now I'd rather not lose him atm seeing as odds now say it's quite possibly the inactives

Says she sees Kezoki as scummy but doesn't want to lynch him, strangely enough. She then contradicts herself by saying it's possibly the inactives instead of Kezoki. Weird.

Agatha A. wrote:lynch nicolai

Seriously? You've had so much time yet you STILL haven't posted a single thing. Is rather get rid of him while we still wont lose from a misslynch than having him here any longer.

Votes/Bandwagons (not sure what point this was at) onto Nicolai, angry about him being extremely useless. Essentially says that we will lose nothing from another mislynch, although doing so puts us into LyLo.

note, I didn't say we wouldn't lose anything, I said we wouldn't lose. Big difference, the idea was getting rid of that final inactive while it wouldn't get the mafia the win yet.

Agatha A. wrote:In the very least we can make a read on brendan, he has said things, Nicolai doesn't seem to want to say anything, if it's a misslynch then so be it, at least we don't have to worry about him anymore. If brendan is a misslynch we can't afford a misslynch anymore. Everyone has talked except for nicolai, if we get rid of nicolai we can make a read on everyone in the game. Small cost, medium risk, good reward. If we lynch brendan it costs town more, it has a bigger risk and a lesser reward. (that's what I'm expecting at least.)

Urges us to make a read on Brendan and further argues as to why we should get rid of Nicolai, seemingly ignoring the negatives of the lynch in the case he is town. Also argues against lynching Brendan so we all can analyze him further on the next day.

Agatha A. wrote:Kezoki Q.: While he isn't as quick to lynch anymore he still doesn't seem to hesitate much when it comes to lynching, though he seems to be trying to help town. There are some other odd things about him, statements that make me think "did you read what I just said or what?", most of those times the way he says it makes others seem more scummy though it's mostly just them saying something helpful for town and him "reading over" the keywords, the things that make it not scummy... Leaning scum

Wakana O.: Not much posts, some fillers, some actual useful posts but still not enough to really allow me a read, though what I do find is that what he/she DOES say tends to be logical. Neutral.

Natchi F.: honest, doesn't exclude the option of him being in a scumteam, mostly reacts to what others say though, only a few of his posts weren't reactions, which is a bit scummy, though overall I'd say he's leaning town.

Warden H.: Doesn't really talk all that much but talks more than some people in the game *cough* nicolai, brendan, wakana *cough* and what warden says usually makes sense... though not all of it is just logical, some things are just about feelings, which I appreciate too. After all, logic can't tell us if we're in love, that's something feelings do. leaning town.

Nicolai L.: yeah not even going to bother with this one anymore...

Brendan E.: you talked! :O you seriously need to talk more though, can't really put up a read on this right now, some strange things we went over already and some things that make it kinda towny so neutral.

Mizuho N.: Talks a lot, though there are many fillers, and while most things mizuho says help town it's like warden said, there's something odd about it. I just can't quite place it... but the fact there's something odd about it remains. Logic says "town", feeling says "adgeahgdjaekgadhge" and I can't quite understand that language yet... though it's something like "don't trust mizuho, they're scum!", so yeah... seeing as I know several people who would do psanon games and who are good enough to lead town while being mafia... leaning scum.
Says a lot of things that make Kezoki seem town and then scumreads him, strangely enough. Says Wakana fillers but also puts in helpful posts when she isn't fillering, and gives her a neutral. Continues with her town read on me, although it's become only "leaning town" now because I generally only react to what others have said. Brings up that Warden seems to argue a lot with logic and not just going with his feelings/his gut; I'm not sure about this, he seems to lean on the gut feeling side more, but I may be mixing him up with someone else. No need to mention Nicolai and Brendan here. On Mizuho says she has a "weird feeling" about her that makes her feel like she is scum. Not sure what this "weird feeling" is, though.

Agatha A. wrote:It's simple, a mafia gets points for every town lynch they participate in, this is after all a tournament with points

Explains logic for Brendan voting Nicolai if he was mafia here. This makes sense, and is valid.

Did this in my phone so there might be a few mistakes I made. Will see when I can react to the other things too.

by Mizuho N. Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:42 pm

Well Natchi I must say, thats pretty impressive. I am gonna be returning the favour later today maybe? Because there are a few stuff that I noticed about your posts. However I do want to comment on Agatha's posts because they are....well....interesting.

Should this be considered a filler, then I would like to say that I am not gonna stop them for a few reasons.

1.) I am normally that type of person who likes to address what I am doing and then actually do it in a separate post.

2.) Fillers help me accomplish my secondary goal of beating Romeo M. In post count. (We have a bit of a rivalry)

3.) I really dont understand why its so bad... Its not like I am not gonna post anything useful normally before or after the filler. So whats the problem?

Anyway next post will comment on Agatha then later will be Natchi.

by Mizuho N. Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:00 pm

Agatha A. wrote:Tyvm natchi, you made me realise something. Though first: Dammit people why do you always have to misinterpretate my posts...
I will explain this further when I get on my computer.

As to what I realized, mizuho stays neutral. Neutral. Might seem towny but think about it, if you're mafia and can't place yourself into the view of a towny, what would be the best thing to do? Not lurking, not watching things from a mafia perspective, It's watching things from a neutral perspective. That's easier to act out.

I dont actually think Natchi worded it right. I was never actually being neutral. What i was doing is giving the case its full value of both sides, then judging what side is the most probable. I mean seriously, comparing my readlist to others, I am definitely not as neutral as some people.

One more thing, I disagree with the fact neutral is easier for scum. In fact its a bit harder. I am sure the mafia here have played as town before (including in showdown). If not then i am really surprised. But anyway as they have played town before, it would be much easier for mafia to simply act the same way they act if they truly were town....not neutral. In fact neutral really means a spectator and its difficult to mimic a spectator...much more....

by Mizuho N. Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:22 pm

Agatha A. wrote:Oh right, forgot about this, mizuho seems a bit too perfect. A mafia is more likely to act extremely towny than an actual towny on forums mafia, they will think out what they say a lot more, thus being perfect towny way more. Doesn't mean mizuho is scum, but it is important to keep in mind.

I am gonna take that as a complement...

So are you trying to say that all of the scumhunting we have been doing in incorrect and scum is all the people who talk pro-town? That makes me Natchi and Kezoki/Wakana the mafia and Brendan is 100% clear right?

Seriously, I believe EVERYONE thinks through what they are gonna post...so why does that only make some people scummy?

by Agatha A. Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:11 pm

that's something that can't be judged very easily, of course there are people who are actually just pro town when they're town, though there are also people who play really well as mafia. It's something about being TOO perfect, though that is very hard to judge, so that's why I'm not really sure on this.

by Mizuho N. Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:36 pm

Agatha A. wrote:Knowing I am probably next, it doesn't really matter if I look a bit more scummy anymore. Though I do want to ask you all one thing, can you PLEASE just stop calling me scummy because I had forgotten about the game? PLEASE, it's really annoying to be called scummy for starting to try to help after being forgetful about the game for a bit and then people coming with such excuses for why they think I'm scummy. Come with something legit, please. Come with something about what I said, not about what I DIDN'T say. And the thing with not being interested, while I could of course lie, after getting my role pm I was kind of disappointed because I wouldn't get to make plans to kill everyone in the game, though meanwhile this game has gotten interesting for me. With that said.
lynch kezoki q.

Says that "she is probably next" and casts a vote for Kezoki, essentially hammering the Osashi lynch as Kezoki is unable to unvote at this point. Coincidental that this occurred, or unintentional? I have no idea. She also says that she doesn't care about appearing scummy at this point, interestingly enough. Seems to be getting annoyed that people are calling her scummy for her previous inactivity, brings up that she doesn't like being town in this game and essentially claims vanilla townie (interesting).

disappointed means you'd rather have it differently, not that you don't want it because of how it is. Once again, misinterpretation... this is like the fifth time it's plain misinterpretation.

I dont get how this changes anything. So what if you are disappointed or not. The points still stand that you have passively claimed Vanilla Townie and everything above the "doesnt likd being town" point. To me this kinda looks like pointless bashing....

Agatha A. wrote:lynch nicolai

Seriously? You've had so much time yet you STILL haven't posted a single thing. Is rather get rid of him while we still wont lose from a misslynch than having him here any longer.

Votes/Bandwagons (not sure what point this was at) onto Nicolai, angry about him being extremely useless. Essentially says that we will lose nothing from another mislynch, although doing so puts us into LyLo.

note, I didn't say we wouldn't lose anything, I said we wouldn't lose. Big difference, the idea was getting rid of that final inactive while it wouldn't get the mafia the win yet.

Yes of course you wouldnt lose.....you wouldnt lose if you lynched anyone here! But that still puts us in LYLO which is rather dangerous. But then again Nicolai was probably the best lynch option and I didnt expect him to flip town.

My comments are in italics.

by Kezoki Q. Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:02 pm

Agatha A. wrote:Tyvm natchi, you made me realise something. Though first: Dammit people why do you always have to misinterpretate my posts...
I will explain this further when I get on my computer.

As to what I realized, mizuho stays neutral. Neutral. Might seem towny but think about it, if you're mafia and can't place yourself into the view of a towny, what would be the best thing to do? Not lurking, not watching things from a mafia perspective, It's watching things from a neutral perspective. That's easier to act out.

Agatha A. wrote:Oh right, forgot about this, mizuho seems a bit too perfect. A mafia is more likely to act extremely towny than an actual towny on forums mafia, they will think out what they say a lot more, thus being perfect towny way more. Doesn't mean mizuho is scum, but it is important to keep in mind.

This is kinda confusing. What exactly is your position on Mizuho? You're saying a mafia will contribute more to the town than a townie in forum mafia? :/

by Kezoki Q. Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:22 pm

Natchi F. wrote:So this post did delete halfway through, causing me to cry in a prone position for approximately 7 hours.
Um... anyways. On to Kezoki! Here comes the bulk of the posts.
*cracks knuckles*

Kezoki Q. wrote:Like I said Natchi, I'd rather have one less inactive townie than just sit and wait for them to answer. They just ruin the fun of the game.

He explains his reasoning for lynching the inactives; valid reasoning here, in my opinion. However, it could also be a scum's convenient excuse.

Kezoki Q. wrote:Yes, and coming online once a week to post your reads without explaining your absence isn't scummy at all. I don't have to defend myself, while me natchi and mizuho were arguing over who to lynch you said absolutely nothing.

Kezoki gets fairly defensive here, although I understand why. There was a bit of miscommunication that cause this, but this is one of the few (perhaps even the only) time that Kezoki loses his cool, interestingly enough.

Kezoki Q. wrote:I never said Inactive = scummy. I said inactive = not helping the progress of the game, therefore inactive = useless. You mean to tell me losing Jenina was a huge loss for town? No. In fact I'll go ahead and say it was still a win, since it narrowed down the field to help find mafia, and got people like you to start talking. So me lynching her was not a bad idea at all.

Kezoki further justifies his lynch on Jenina, correctly stating that Jenina was completely and utterly useless (/me still rages) and that getting her lynched may have actually helped town, as it narrowed down the pool of who could be scum. It was a mislynch that did bring us closer to LyLo, though, so it's interesting that he didn't really mention the negatives of the lynch (perhaps because others already did).

I do not believe there were any negatives to lynching Jenina, since all she did was irritate us with that post :p

Kezoki Q. wrote:I didn't say your reads were nonsense, you just called me scummy for being active and lynching people, that's what I thought was weird.

Kezoki further elaborates on why he was defensive and why he thought the reads made no sense.

Kezoki Q. wrote:Let me just justify my lynch with some new arguments. Agatha comes on the game twice, the first time she says this
Agatha A. wrote:hmm... forgot my name
which is, of course, useless filler. The second time she comes on, a week later, she says she forgot about the game, asks for a summary, and disappears once more.
Agatha A. wrote:I'm so sorry! I forgot about the game... I knew I was forgetting something but I couldn't remember what... can someone give me a summary of what happened?
The fact that Agatha did this could show us that Agatha wants us to think that she is town and wants to be co-operative, but clearly she isnt as she has been a while.

Here he explains his lynch on Agatha; due to the fact that she was also being useless and not helpful, while trying to appear like she was attempting to help.

Kezoki Q. wrote:Unlynch Agatha Lynch Kenzo I know, I know I'm switching lynches way too much but I believe the explanation is clear here: Kenzo has been lurking too much, and i decided to give agatha one more chance to prove she can be active. (I am a generous god)

Kezoki switches his vote at this point to give Agatha a chance to talk and continues with his trend of lynching an inactive; sadly, this strategy didn't work yet again (and it never worked, sadly >_>).

Kezoki Q. wrote:Alright Agatha, you said to give you a day and you can participate, anything to note? Is anyone scummy? Is anyone seeming like town? Anything at all to get the conversation going? These questions are for everyone else as well, we have already lost 2 people just because they were inactive, any reads on whoever could help right now. I'll start :
-I find Mizuho and Warden to be town-sided, because they are actively progressing towards a good scumhunting method. As seen in the PoE posts, if Mizuho was scum he wouldn't spend his time trying to explain why PoE is a bad strategy, he would have just nodded and agreed and watched the townies fall :p Same for Warden, any idea right now is a welcome idea, though I personally wouldn't use PoE.
-Osashi : Scummy. She did post a read-list, but it was pretty much useless since literally everyone was either town, or leaning town in her opinion. IMO, she's trying to get on everyone's good side, which is a typical mafia thing to do.
-Wakana: Competely Neutral. She (He?) seems to alternate between posting some good, useful posts and then posting a useless, filler-y one.
-Natchi: Town. I don't get why I've seen many posts saying that natchi is scummy, I haven't seen him (her?) doing anything sketchy. As far as I'm concerned he pointed out the scummiest post on day 1, and lynched accordingly, and even tho Jenina flipped town, that was more of a town move than a scummy move.
-Agatha: Scum until she proves otherwise. Managed to escape being lynched twice now because we wanted to give her a chance. It's do or die time, either be active and share some of your ideas, or you'll be lynched.
-Nicolai - Brendan: Please be active. I'm begging
So according to me the scum team would be : Osashi - Agatha - Nicolai/Brendan
Therefore
Lynch Osashi
Thank you for your time
Also note to the mod : Update Alive/Dead list

I commented previously that it was fairly OMGUSsy, and I think it still is. He comments that Warden, Mizuho, and I are all town, and provides a neutral read on Wakana due to her ranging from filler to useful posts. Scumread on Agatha because she hadn't been very useful at this point, although she definitely started contributing later.

My Lynch on Osashi was for 3 reasons. Me thinking she was trying to get on everyone's good side, me being the lynch target if no one lynched, and having midterms during the week and not being sure about being able to come online.

Kezoki Q. wrote:
Osashi D. wrote:
Kezoki Q. wrote:Yay! Brendan! 1 more to go I think so we can get a full game!
Am gonna state a few things:
1-@Brendan : Did Kenzo even talk at all before he was lynched? How did you find him scummy if he didn't?
2-@Mizuho : Reading someone as neutral =/= reading someone as scum, she only added me and Natchi as neutral so her list wouldn't be all town. My point still stands on Osashi.
3-@Agatha : Bussing is going against your own scum partner.
4-@Mizuho Again: Might wanna correct that last post, I think you made an error since you mentioned yourself twice.
5-@Natchi : I think I cleared things up with the agatha thing when we agreed that I had mentioned her coming online at the very beginning of the game, she thought I was being scummy because she misinterpreted me as saying she came online when she never did. I understand that you find me as being scummy. How so?
6-@Osashi, who just posted: Agatha asked for a 1 day grace period if you will, so I gave her that, and she became pretty active, whereas you on the other hand became way less active after your first read list. "Note: I think kezoki changed his mindset from inactive = useless to scummy = useless" what does that mean?

I was questioning why your shifted your attention on me rather than Agatha because in the earlier days, you seem to always be lynching the one that haven't talk at all.
Well, basically we got 0 info by lynching kenzo and jenina, and I already posted my current read-list with you being the scummiest imo. Already explained the Agatha part, and you can also read what Mizuho said.

Explains his lynch on Osashi, saying that lynching inactives won't really work at this point and that he's just realized that. He then says that we'll be able to get more info from lynching someone else, and he believes Osashi is scummy (is this motivated by the fact that she lynched him? We may never know.)

Kezoki Q. wrote:
Osashi D. wrote:
Kezoki Q. wrote:
Osashi D. wrote:
Kezoki Q. wrote:Yay! Brendan! 1 more to go I think so we can get a full game!
Am gonna state a few things:
1-@Brendan : Did Kenzo even talk at all before he was lynched? How did you find him scummy if he didn't?
2-@Mizuho : Reading someone as neutral =/= reading someone as scum, she only added me and Natchi as neutral so her list wouldn't be all town. My point still stands on Osashi.
3-@Agatha : Bussing is going against your own scum partner.
4-@Mizuho Again: Might wanna correct that last post, I think you made an error since you mentioned yourself twice.
5-@Natchi : I think I cleared things up with the agatha thing when we agreed that I had mentioned her coming online at the very beginning of the game, she thought I was being scummy because she misinterpreted me as saying she came online when she never did. I understand that you find me as being scummy. How so?
6-@Osashi, who just posted: Agatha asked for a 1 day grace period if you will, so I gave her that, and she became pretty active, whereas you on the other hand became way less active after your first read list. "Note: I think kezoki changed his mindset from inactive = useless to scummy = useless" what does that mean?

I was questioning why your shifted your attention on me rather than Agatha because in the earlier days, you seem to always be lynching the one that haven't talk at all.
Well, basically we got 0 info by lynching kenzo and jenina, and I already posted my current read-list with you being the scummiest imo. Already explained the Agatha part, and you can also read what Mizuho said.

Can I ask why you are so quick to lynch?

I mean Day 2 you lynch agatha right off the bat and day 3 you also lynched me pretty early.

Actually my lynch on you was for personal reasons, I thought I'd have limited times to check the game this week, due to midterms, and I thought I should lynch the person I find scummiest in case I don't get on again. The agatha lynch was fast because I was sure we were going to lynch her until she came on later.

Further explains his lynches at this point.

Kezoki Q. wrote:
Osashi D. wrote:

Kezoki Q as Leaning Scum: I must admit that some of my posts regarding Kezoki early on is bias. First of all, I really wanted to keep playing in this game so I kind panicked that he lynched me. However, it is not totally due to personal feelings as I already said that he may be scum during Day 2 which was not influenced by panicking. His posts early on were scummy to me. He quickly changed his mind when lynching and had a mindset of inactive = scummy. This can be seen as lynch-happy because he was reckless to make decisions, especially when he says things like "i don't care if this is scummy af but I have my reasons". The fact that he responded to my first read list with sarcasm gives of a mafia feel to me. Also when I questioned he lynch, he would say things like "Do you have a better idea?" which to me gives off a feeling that he is lynch-happy. He even admitted that he lynched me early because he thought he wouldn't have enough time to post, which to me, implies that he is afraid of me lynching him first. Kezoki also mentions the inactives often during the end of this day, maybe he is just trying to sway attention?

I'll reply to this part and we can decide what to do then. Lynch-Happy is not a bad thing. Lynch-Happy = agressive, and to be honest I am always aggressive, whether as town or mafia. That's just how I play. You can't just say hey this guys wants to lynch people so he's obviously scum, the objective of this game is to find out who the mafia is, people crack under pressure, and the best way to pressure them is to lynch them.
I did not respond to your first list with sarcasm, I legit found a hole in it, and explained my point. And yes, I stand on my decision to call out the inactives. Guilty until proven innocent IMO, and the more you stay away from the game during important moments, the guiltier you are.

Explains that lynch-happy does not necessarily mean aggressive, and says something similar to Agatha "I am always aggressive": basically referring to his playstyle out of psanon, which we can't know whatsoever. He also encourages activity in an underhanded way in this post.

Kezoki Q. wrote:
Agatha A. wrote:Knowing I am probably next, it doesn't really matter if I look a bit more scummy anymore. Though I do want to ask you all one thing, can you PLEASE just stop calling me scummy because I had forgotten about the game? PLEASE, it's really annoying to be called scummy for starting to try to help after being forgetful about the game for a bit and then people coming with such excuses for why they think I'm scummy. Come with something legit, please. Come with something about what I said, not about what I DIDN'T say. And the thing with not being interested, while I could of course lie, after getting my role pm I was kind of disappointed because I wouldn't get to make plans to kill everyone in the game, though meanwhile this game has gotten interesting for me. With that said.
lynch kezoki q.

So you decided to lynch me out of nowhere, without explaining why?
Osashi please stay for a bit, we should really make a decision.

Asks for Osashi to wait so that they can lynch someone; sadly, this does not end up working out.

Kezoki Q. wrote:Well basically now I can no longer remove my Osashi lynch because I would be lynched then... I'm not even sure who is scum anymore, but I can't afford to change my lynch :/

The point he brings up here is actually the fault of all of us; we all also did force him into this situation, not just Agatha, and as a result did get Osashi lynched.

Kezoki Q. wrote:I don't think so.
And guys we're doing this all wrong, we know our timezones are different yet no one posts for the whole 3 days, we wait until it's a few hours before deadline and start throwing accusations, knowing full well we won't be able to discuss it properly. We filled 4 pages in a few hours.

Yeah, this is a serious problem. We all need to be active and post as much as possible (yes, I know i'm failing at this, but i'll try harder, alright?)

Kezoki Q. wrote:Change of plans I will be able to post for the next couple of hours, I'd really like to hear from Nicolai now that he's been subbed. And I'd like to say that brendan somehow found kenzo to be scummy when kenzo hadn't posted a single thing (I think). He also claimed to have read the whole thing and then had some awkward posts indicating he had no idea who was lynched. This is why I'm for the Brendan lynch, but I've been accused of being too lynch-happy so I'll wait until I hear from Mizuho and Warden, who I trust the most, from Nicolai who hasn't had a single post and obviously from Brendan to explain this particular point.

Kezoki was one of the most aggressive towards Brendan, not sure why. I think I already explained why those posts of Brendan's weren't scummy before, not gonna comment on them again.

Kezoki Q. wrote:New Read List since I haven't done one in a while:
Brendan - Scum: "Just from skimming Im finding Kenzo as the scummiest. More opinions to come." This was said knowing that kenzo never said anything.

Wakana - Scum: No posts in a while. And even then most of the posts were either filler, or saying something that was already said by someone else. "So somebody want to sum it up for me please" this was posted 10 min before the deadline, knowing full well no one could sum up 4 whole pages in less than 10 min, I'd say he just said this to make it seem like he tried to participate in the lynch.

Natchi - Town: Few posts, but meaningful, he's guiding the town in the right direction, I'd trust him to lead the next lynch.

Mizuho - Town: Towniest player since the beginning of the game, has made some accusations in the last few days, but has also defended people, which makes me believe he is town just because he's taking his time to see both sides of any argument. Calm and fair.

Warden - Town: Seems to be the only person to think Mizuho (or Mizuno, call her whatever I don't care xD) is scummy, but he does bring up some interesting points, only problem with him is that he hasn't posted at all when we were pressured to lynch, but it could be justified. Hoping from some more posts from you, since they've been helpful so far. I especially want to know why you think Wakana is town, when he is one of my prime suspects.

Agatha - Neutral: My only neutral read as I don't even know what to think about her (yes, her). After I gave her a chance, she convinced me with a pretty good read list and some good posts that she was town, that was until just before the last deadline, where she got me confused by accusing people left and right, posting some stuff I didn't understand, and jumping on Mizuho (I think), seeing as there are some scummier players, I'm deeming her as neutral.

Nicolai - Scum: 2 users have now been using the account, not one single post...

TLDR : Scum Team : Brendan - Wakana - Nicolai

I've already covered Brendan. For Wakana, he notes her inactivity and her fillery posts for her last couple (although the most recent ones weren't very fillery, but a bit defensive). States that Mizuho is towny due to neutrality, something i'd agree with. The read on Warden is interesting; he sticks with his idea that Warden has been consistently contributing well to the town, and also townreads him. Neutral read on Agatha because she's been pro-town after a scummy start, I think.

Kezoki Q. wrote:I don't think warden and Mizuho are together, since Warden keeps getting his name wrong xD.

Filler here, also something I don't think is very valid. I think they aren't on a scumteam solely because of how against each other they were. Then again, I could be wrong.

This was a joke. Sheesh. You get to do lame programming jokes and I don't get to say some stuff once in a while? :p

Kezoki Q. wrote:So I gathered some stuff to help us out, the scum teams according to every user. This should be pretty helpful once we lynch a mafia:
Warden: Mizuho - Nicolai - Brendan
Mizuho: Brendan - Warden - Nicolai
Brendan: Agatha - Natchi - Nicolai
Kezoki: Brendan - Wakana - Nicolai
Natchi: Brendan - Nicolai - Wakana
Agatha: Nicolai - Kezoki - Mizuho
Wakana: ???
Nicolai: ???

Totals:
-6 People think that Nicolai is scum. That is everyone who already posted
-4 People think Brendan is scum. That is everyone but himself and Agatha
-2 People think Mizuho is scum (Agatha + Warden)
-2 people think Wakana is scum (Kezoki + Natchi)
-1 person thinks Warden is scum (Mizuho)
-1 person thinks Kezoki is scum (Agatha)
-1 person thinks Agatha is scum (Brendan)
-1 person thinks Natchi is scum (Brendan)

Basically, everyone is suspected by atleast someone, I want to urge Wakana and Nicolai to post, especially Nicolai.

I don't think this is a good method to use as a lynch; if we do this, we're going to lynch town almost every time.

And we did, every single time...

Kezoki Q. wrote:Well we seriously lost this game because of the amount of inactivity gdi. Natchi Nicolai would have been lynched anyway, there's no such thing as a hammer in this game. Lynches only occur at deadline

This seems overly... not sure what the word I want to say is. Dramatic? Defeated? This just comes across as scummy to me.

You can't deny the fact that had the 3 people that were lynched for being inactive participated, we wouldn't be in this situation. LYLO means we have to do what we couldn't do on any day, lynch the mafia. Dramatic and defeated? Maybe, but they are the reason we are down to 4-3

by Brendan T. Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:26 pm

Just going to quickly post my updated readlist with no neutrals because neutral reads don't help very much right now and I have to go soon.

Kezoki - town
Wakana - town
Natchi - town
Warden - scum
Mizuho - scum
Agatha - scum

Ordered from least to most scummy:
Natchi
Kezoki
Wakana
Mizuho
Warden
Agatha

I still find Agatha to be the scummiest. I haven't been able to make much sense of her scumreads, and it seems like she's being purposely vague.

by Kezoki Q. Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:26 pm

Warden , Wakana... you can't afford to be away on LYLO. Please contribute some more, so we can have at least one full day to discuss the lynch.

by Brendan T. Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:27 pm

Mizuho N. wrote:
Agatha A. wrote:Oh right, forgot about this, mizuho seems a bit too perfect. A mafia is more likely to act extremely towny than an actual towny on forums mafia, they will think out what they say a lot more, thus being perfect towny way more. Doesn't mean mizuho is scum, but it is important to keep in mind.
I am gonna take that as a complement...

So are you trying to say that all of the scumhunting we have been doing in incorrect and scum is all the people who talk pro-town? That makes me Natchi and Kezoki/Wakana the mafia and Brendan is 100% clear right?

Seriously, I believe EVERYONE thinks through what they are gonna post...so why does that only make some people scummy?

Does this mean that you are sure that I'm scum?

by Kezoki Q. Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:29 pm

Brendan T. wrote:Just going to quickly post my updated readlist with no neutrals because neutral reads don't help very much right now and I have to go soon.

Kezoki - town
Wakana - town
Natchi - town
Warden - scum
Mizuho - scum
Agatha - scum

Ordered from least to most scummy:
Natchi
Kezoki
Wakana
Mizuho
Warden
Agatha

I still find Agatha to be the scummiest. I haven't been able to make much sense of her scumreads, and it seems like she's being purposely vague.

Interesting, the first person to mention both Mizuho and Warden as scum. I think this is pretty far fetched but still a possibility.

by Mizuho N. Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:31 pm

I did say I was gonna return the favour but I just realised I already commented/analysed most of your posts lol. But this one I haven't done and I really wanted to talk about this when I wanted to explain why Natchi + Brendan + Nicolai could be viable.

Mizuho N. wrote:
I believe we need to parse the array so we can append what they have done good too so then we can assign names to a Town variable or Scum variable. So for example although she has done some scummy stuff, she doesnt look like a scummy person to me because she also has done towny stuff.

Also i would appreciate if you bolded the programming key terms, coz we are cool kids ya know?

pshh, you didn't even try on those. It may be pragma-tic to stop wasting our time and energy on these. Also, what's the point of bolding the terms? If I do so, it ruins the fun! Else, if I make strange grammatical errors or use hyphens, you get to look at them after being giving clues. While this is fun, I say it would be best to terminate this conversation.[/quote]

This post looks rather....normal....right? Well it did seem like that to me at first but after thinking about it I noticed something strange. Pay attention to the mood of each sentence. "pshh, you didn't even try on those." seems like a friendly sort of rivalry thing so it would seem like it sets a friendly mood right? but then the next sentence goes like "It may be pragma-tic to stop wasting our time and energy on these" which is much more of a serious and strict mood. These moods weave in and out throughout the post. Now you might be wondering, what does that have to do with him being scum? Especially with Nicolai and Brendan? Well if there are confused/contradicting moods then it is inferred that Natchi has a mental disorder..... Or the most likely reason is that he is worried. But why would he be worried? Well Brendan and Nicolai at the time were the most suspected for being scum... So he could have been worried about them being lynched...

It might be that I am overthinking this slightly (I mean seriously I sorta just brought psychology into this lol) and misinterpreted the moods. But the post felt really strange after reading it several times. Also if you are wondering how on earth I could tell the moods. Its coz I have this thing where I can sorta tell the mood of someone by what they type. They normally are accurate but sometimes I do get it wrong so I dont know.

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