Game 12: Vengeful Mafia Mafia

Brendan T. wrote:

Mizuho N. wrote:

Agatha A. wrote:Oh right, forgot about this, mizuho seems a bit too perfect. A mafia is more likely to act extremely towny than an actual towny on forums mafia, they will think out what they say a lot more, thus being perfect towny way more. Doesn't mean mizuho is scum, but it is important to keep in mind.

I am gonna take that as a complement...

So are you trying to say that all of the scumhunting we have been doing in incorrect and scum is all the people who talk pro-town? That makes me Natchi and Kezoki/Wakana the mafia and Brendan is 100% clear right?

Seriously, I believe EVERYONE thinks through what they are gonna post...so why does that only make some people scummy?

Does this mean that you are sure that I'm scum?

No but atm you are suspected quite a bit and if Agatha is right then you would be 100% clear. Plus you are 100% clear because it has to be me, natchi and kezoki/wakana so you are 100% clear.

Mizuho N. wrote:I did say I was gonna return the favour but I just realised I already commented/analysed most of your posts lol. But this one I haven't done and I really wanted to talk about this when I wanted to explain why Natchi + Brendan + Nicolai could be viable.

Mizuho N. wrote:
I believe we need to parse the array so we can append what they have done good too so then we can assign names to a Town variable or Scum variable. So for example although she has done some scummy stuff, she doesnt look like a scummy person to me because she also has done towny stuff.

Also i would appreciate if you bolded the programming key terms, coz we are cool kids ya know?

pshh, you didn't even try on those. It may be pragma-tic to stop wasting our time and energy on these. Also, what's the point of bolding the terms? If I do so, it ruins the fun! Else, if I make strange grammatical errors or use hyphens, you get to look at them after being giving clues. While this is fun, I say it would be best to terminate this conversation.

This post looks rather....normal....right? Well it did seem like that to me at first but after thinking about it I noticed something strange. Pay attention to the mood of each sentence. "pshh, you didn't even try on those." seems like a friendly sort of rivalry thing so it would seem like it sets a friendly mood right? but then the next sentence goes like  "It may be pragma-tic to stop wasting our time and energy on these" which is much more of a serious and strict mood. These moods weave in and out throughout the post. Now you might be wondering, what does that have to do with him being scum? Especially with Nicolai and Brendan? Well if there are confused/contradicting moods then it is inferred that Natchi has a mental disorder..... Or the most likely reason is that he is worried. But why would he be worried? Well Brendan and Nicolai at the time were the most suspected for being scum... So he could have been worried about them being lynched...

It might be that I am overthinking this slightly (I mean seriously I sorta just brought psychology into this lol) and misinterpreted the moods. But the post felt really strange after reading it several times. Also if you are wondering how on earth I could tell the moods. Its coz I have this thing where I can sorta tell the mood of someone by what they type. They normally are accurate but sometimes I do get it wrong so I dont know.[/quote]


Slightly? Seriously? This is completely unnecessary, and you're reading waaay too much into it.

Its not unnecessary because I actually felt like Natchi was a bit panicky which is rather strange. Which could mean he is in a scumteam with brendan or someone who he felt was underthreat.

Mizuho N. wrote:

Brendan T. wrote:

Mizuho N. wrote:

Agatha A. wrote:Oh right, forgot about this, mizuho seems a bit too perfect. A mafia is more likely to act extremely towny than an actual towny on forums mafia, they will think out what they say a lot more, thus being perfect towny way more. Doesn't mean mizuho is scum, but it is important to keep in mind.

I am gonna take that as a complement...

So are you trying to say that all of the scumhunting we have been doing in incorrect and scum is all the people who talk pro-town? That makes me Natchi and Kezoki/Wakana the mafia and Brendan is 100% clear right?

Seriously, I believe EVERYONE thinks through what they are gonna post...so why does that only make some people scummy?

Does this mean that you are sure that I'm scum?

No but atm you are suspected quite a bit and if Agatha is right then you would be 100% clear. Plus you are 100% clear because it has to be me, natchi and kezoki/wakana so you are 100% clear.

what

Agatha A. wrote:Tyvm natchi, you made me realise something.  Though first: Dammit people why do you always have to misinterpretate my posts...
I will explain this further when I get on my computer.

As to what I realized, mizuho stays neutral. Neutral. Might seem towny but think about it,  if you're mafia and can't place yourself into the view of a towny, what would be the best thing to do? Not lurking, not watching things from a mafia perspective, It's watching things from a neutral perspective. That's easier to act out.

I don't agree with this, honestly. For both town and mafia, it's easier to be opinionated and be "mafia-like" instead of being truly neutral. However, being truly neutral is something that is generally a towny characteristic, since you are looking at both sides of the issue and not just giving people no chances to speak.

Agatha A. wrote:Oh right, forgot about this, mizuho seems a bit too perfect. A mafia is more likely to act extremely towny than an actual towny on forums mafia, they will think out what they say a lot more, thus being perfect towny way more. Doesn't mean mizuho is scum, but it is important to keep in mind.

This could be a valid point, but i'm not sure. I think it generally varies from game to game; some have active town, while others have active mafia (given that the actives are also extremely pro-town).

Natchi F. wrote:
States that if she was mafia, she wouldn't care and would just let herself get killed so she could take out town. Valid point, I guess. Says she "contributes more as mafia" even though we have no idea who she is and thus we cannot validate this. Next, she brings up a convoluted argument which she retracts later. Finally, she asks for one day to "prove herself" and tries to appear nonchalant about being lynched once again.

wait what? The whole point was that I would  probably not forget the game if I was mafia... and I wouldn't act much differently if I were to be mafia.

Forgetting about the game is pretty much not caring enough to remember/having other things that you deem more important (sometimes that may be a good thing, but it still means you do not care about the game as much). I'm also fairly certain that you stated in the post itself that you generally act different as mafia.

Agatha A. wrote:not much time left, 10 hours until deadline iirc

on another note, I wouldn't have done such a big message with so much pleading for myself if I believed it wasn't neccesary, it takes a lot of effort and I'm lazy so yeah...

Tries to say that she wouldn't put in effort if she was mafia (essentially).

I said "if I believed it wasn't necessary", if I would be mafia I would still put in just as much effort, possibly even more. Yet again a misinterpretation of my words.

Hmm. Alright, I guess we just had different interpretations of what "I believed it wasn't necessary" is.

Agatha A. wrote:Yesterday I had read through kezoki and a few others and then I clicked on the wrong thing which made my message disappear, seeing as I had the idea in my mind of kezoki being kinda scummy I thought there were more strange things but the only strange things have already been said. About Natchi, I know I said that a bit much but it was more like a "yeah I was wrong about that, I actually have him as townread now", when I just looked back at it I don't know why I phrased it that way... but meh, the point of it is the same, townread. Also, bussing? I guess that's being nice to people and making them townreads so they don't lynch you? yeah that was unintentional... oh well

Gets annoyed when I note that the way she changed her read is bussing, says that she was "being nice" which is interesting, since changing your mind isn't necessarily "being nice." Saying that she was "being nice" makes it sound like she still thinks i'm scum while not saying so.

I interpreted being nice from the context it was in, if it's about getting on someone's good side then it's only logical being nice is a part of it. I didn't say I was being nice. And what exactly made it seem like I still thought you were scummy? And of course... what makes me seem annoyed? I don't remember being annoyed about that.

The way you phrased your sentence definitely made it sound like you were "being nice", although that may be what you thought I was thinking of what you posted as. I already pointed out what made it seem like you still thought I was scummy. You seemed annoyed because this post had an exasperated tone.

Agatha A. wrote:also, little thing about my gut feeling: it's actually more of a voice in my head or something, when I'm about to lynch someone every now and then something in my head just tells me to lynch the other person against all logic.

Explains what her "gut feeling" is; basically a voice that tells her to vote the opposite way of what she thinks she should do (that may be schizophrenia, get that checked out). Perhaps she's trying to use this "gut feeling" as a crutch to fall back on?

It's hard to explain, it's not actually a voice it's just... yeah... but not schizophrenia.

The schizophrenia thing was a joke.

Agatha A. wrote:Knowing I am probably next, it doesn't really matter if I look a bit more scummy anymore. Though I do want to ask you all one thing, can you PLEASE just stop calling me scummy because I had forgotten about the game? PLEASE, it's really annoying to be called scummy for starting to try to help after being forgetful about the game for a bit and then people coming with such excuses for why they think I'm scummy. Come with something legit, please.  Come with something about what I said, not about what I DIDN'T say. And the thing with not being interested, while I could of course lie, after getting my role pm I was kind of disappointed because I wouldn't get to make plans to kill everyone in the game, though meanwhile this game has gotten interesting for me. With that said.
lynch kezoki q.

Says that "she is probably next" and casts a vote for Kezoki, essentially hammering the Osashi lynch as Kezoki is unable to unvote at this point. Coincidental that this occurred, or unintentional? I have no idea. She also says that she doesn't care about appearing scummy at this point, interestingly enough. Seems to be getting annoyed that people are calling her scummy for her previous inactivity, brings up that she doesn't like being town in this game and essentially claims vanilla townie (interesting).

disappointed means you'd rather have it differently, not that you don't want it because of how it is. Once again, misinterpretation... this is like the fifth time it's plain misinterpretation.

Perhaps you're just not open to anything i've been saying here? It does kind of seem like it... Also, if you'd rather have it differently, that means you don't like what you have (or you like something else better).

Agatha A. wrote:lynch nicolai

Seriously? You've had so much time yet you STILL haven't posted a single thing. Is rather get rid of him while we still wont lose from a misslynch than having him here any longer.

Votes/Bandwagons (not sure what point this was at) onto Nicolai, angry about him being extremely useless. Essentially says that we will lose nothing from another mislynch, although doing so puts us into LyLo.

note, I didn't say we wouldn't lose anything, I said we wouldn't lose. Big difference, the idea was getting rid of that final inactive while it wouldn't get the mafia the win yet.

Alright, I did misunderstand you here.

Mizuho N. wrote:

Agatha A. wrote:Tyvm natchi, you made me realise something.  Though first: Dammit people why do you always have to misinterpretate my posts...
I will explain this further when I get on my computer.

As to what I realized, mizuho stays neutral. Neutral. Might seem towny but think about it,  if you're mafia and can't place yourself into the view of a towny, what would be the best thing to do? Not lurking, not watching things from a mafia perspective, It's watching things from a neutral perspective. That's easier to act out.

I dont actually think Natchi worded it right. I was never actually being neutral. What i was doing is giving the case its full value of both sides, then judging what side is the most probable. I mean seriously, comparing my readlist to others, I am definitely not as neutral as some people. 

You are definitely being neutral when it comes to addressing other players and bringing up arguments for/against why someone should be lynched. Readlists are almost always going to be subjective; as such, I don't factor those in when considering someone for neutrality. It's important to note that you don't have to be neutral all the time, but rather have a feeling of general neutrality and be neutral in most cases.

Kezoki Q. wrote:

Natchi F. wrote:

Kezoki Q. wrote:I never said Inactive = scummy. I said inactive = not helping the progress of the game, therefore inactive = useless. You mean to tell me losing Jenina was a huge loss for town? No. In fact I'll go ahead and say it was still a win, since it narrowed down the field to help find mafia, and got people like you to start talking. So me lynching her was not a bad idea at all.

Kezoki further justifies his lynch on Jenina, correctly stating that Jenina was completely and utterly useless (/me still rages) and that getting her lynched may have actually helped town, as it narrowed down the pool of who could be scum. It was a mislynch that did bring us closer to LyLo, though, so it's interesting that he didn't really mention the negatives of the lynch (perhaps because others already did).

I do not believe there were any negatives to lynching Jenina, since all she did was irritate us with that post :p

The only negative was that we were brought closer to lylo, tbh.

Kezoki Q. wrote:Alright Agatha, you said to give you a day and you can participate, anything to note? Is anyone scummy? Is anyone seeming like town? Anything at all to get the conversation going? These questions are for everyone else as well, we have already lost 2 people just because they were inactive, any reads on whoever could help right now. I'll start :
-I find Mizuho and Warden to be town-sided, because they are actively progressing towards a good scumhunting method. As seen in the PoE posts, if Mizuho was scum he wouldn't spend his time trying to explain why PoE is a bad strategy, he would have just nodded and agreed and watched the townies fall :p Same for Warden, any idea right now is a welcome idea, though I personally wouldn't use PoE.
-Osashi : Scummy. She did post a read-list, but it was pretty much useless since literally everyone was either town, or leaning town in her opinion. IMO, she's trying to get on everyone's good side, which is a typical mafia thing to do.
-Wakana: Competely Neutral. She (He?) seems to alternate between posting some good, useful posts and then posting a useless, filler-y one.
-Natchi: Town. I don't get why I've seen many posts saying that natchi is scummy, I haven't seen him (her?) doing anything sketchy. As far as I'm concerned he pointed out the scummiest post on day 1, and lynched accordingly, and even tho Jenina flipped town, that was more of a town move than a scummy move.
-Agatha: Scum until she proves otherwise. Managed to escape being lynched twice now because we wanted to give her a chance. It's do or die time, either be active and share some of your ideas, or you'll be lynched.
-Nicolai - Brendan: Please be active. I'm begging
So according to me the scum team would be : Osashi - Agatha - Nicolai/Brendan
Therefore
Lynch Osashi
Thank you for your time
Also note to the mod : Update Alive/Dead list

I commented previously that it was fairly OMGUSsy, and I think it still is. He comments that Warden, Mizuho, and I are all town, and provides a neutral read on Wakana due to her ranging from filler to useful posts. Scumread on Agatha because she hadn't been very useful at this point, although she definitely started contributing later.

My Lynch on Osashi was for 3 reasons. Me thinking she was trying to get on everyone's good side, me being the lynch target if no one lynched, and having midterms during the week and not being sure about being able to come online.

Alright, makes sense, but the reasoning definitely did seem a bit rushed (probably because of life circumstances) and it was fairly OMGUSsy imo

Kezoki Q. wrote:I don't think warden and Mizuho are together, since Warden keeps getting his name wrong xD.

Filler here, also something I don't think is very valid. I think they aren't on a scumteam solely because of how against each other they were. Then again, I could be wrong.

This was a joke. Sheesh. You get to do lame programming jokes and I don't get to say some stuff once in a while? :p

Sorry, sorry, I couldn't tell it was a joke.

Kezoki Q. wrote:So I gathered some stuff to help us out, the scum teams according to every user. This should be pretty helpful once we lynch a mafia:
Warden: Mizuho - Nicolai - Brendan
Mizuho: Brendan - Warden - Nicolai
Brendan: Agatha - Natchi - Nicolai
Kezoki: Brendan - Wakana - Nicolai
Natchi: Brendan - Nicolai - Wakana
Agatha: Nicolai - Kezoki - Mizuho
Wakana: ???
Nicolai: ???

Totals:
-6 People think that Nicolai is scum. That is everyone who already posted
-4 People think Brendan is scum. That is everyone but himself and Agatha
-2 People think Mizuho is scum (Agatha + Warden)
-2 people think Wakana is scum (Kezoki + Natchi)
-1 person thinks Warden is scum (Mizuho)
-1 person thinks Kezoki is scum (Agatha)
-1 person thinks Agatha is scum (Brendan)
-1 person thinks Natchi is scum (Brendan)

Basically, everyone is suspected by atleast someone, I want to urge Wakana and Nicolai to post, especially Nicolai.

I don't think this is a good method to use as a lynch; if we do this, we're going to lynch town almost every time.

And we did, every single time...

Yeah, true. Just a note for future games, I guess?

Kezoki Q. wrote:Well we seriously lost this game because of the amount of inactivity gdi. Natchi Nicolai would have been lynched anyway, there's no such thing as a hammer in this game. Lynches only occur at deadline

This seems overly... not sure what the word I want to say is. Dramatic? Defeated? This just comes across as scummy to me.

You can't deny the fact that had the 3 people that were lynched for being inactive participated, we wouldn't be in this situation. LYLO means we have to do what we couldn't do on any day, lynch the mafia. Dramatic and defeated? Maybe, but they are the reason we are down to 4-3

I don't disagree that the inactives did hurt us quite a lot, but the tone sounded overly defeated/dramatic. I'm not saying that what you pointed out is invalid.

Mizuho N. wrote:I did say I was gonna return the favour but I just realised I already commented/analysed most of your posts lol. But this one I haven't done and I really wanted to talk about this when I wanted to explain why Natchi + Brendan + Nicolai could be viable.

The Based God Natchi wrote:

Mizuho N. wrote:
I believe we need to parse the array so we can append what they have done good too so then we can assign names to a Town variable or Scum variable. So for example although she has done some scummy stuff, she doesnt look like a scummy person to me because she also has done towny stuff.

Also i would appreciate if you bolded the programming key terms, coz we are cool kids ya know?

pshh, you didn't even try on those. It may be pragma-tic to stop wasting our time and energy on these. Also, what's the point of bolding the terms? If I do so, it ruins the fun! Else, if I make strange grammatical errors or use hyphens, you get to look at them after being giving clues. While this is fun, I say it would be best to terminate this conversation.

This post looks rather....normal....right? Well it did seem like that to me at first but after thinking about it I noticed something strange. Pay attention to the mood of each sentence. "pshh, you didn't even try on those." seems like a friendly sort of rivalry thing so it would seem like it sets a friendly mood right? but then the next sentence goes like  "It may be pragma-tic to stop wasting our time and energy on these" which is much more of a serious and strict mood. These moods weave in and out throughout the post. Now you might be wondering, what does that have to do with him being scum? Especially with Nicolai and Brendan? Well if there are confused/contradicting moods then it is inferred that Natchi has a mental disorder..... Or the most likely reason is that he is worried. But why would he be worried? Well Brendan and Nicolai at the time were the most suspected for being scum... So he could have been worried about them being lynched...

It might be that I am overthinking this slightly (I mean seriously I sorta just brought psychology into this lol) and misinterpreted the moods. But the post felt really strange after reading it several times. Also if you are wondering how on earth I could tell the moods. Its coz I have this thing where I can sorta tell the mood of someone by what they type. They normally are accurate but sometimes I do get it wrong so I dont know.

You definitely overthought this one... It was just another paragraph of programming jokes [s]I wanted to be the last one to post the programming jokes, lol.[/s] "pragma-tic" refers to pragmas, which are generally used to initialize or define variables in C (in many cases). I was just encouraging that we stop the jokes because it was getting a bit excessive [s], I was running out of ideas, [/s] and because it was somewhat fillery.[/quote]

Brendan T. wrote:

Mizuho N. wrote:

Brendan T. wrote:

Mizuho N. wrote:

Agatha A. wrote:Oh right, forgot about this, mizuho seems a bit too perfect. A mafia is more likely to act extremely towny than an actual towny on forums mafia, they will think out what they say a lot more, thus being perfect towny way more. Doesn't mean mizuho is scum, but it is important to keep in mind.

I am gonna take that as a complement...

So are you trying to say that all of the scumhunting we have been doing in incorrect and scum is all the people who talk pro-town? That makes me Natchi and Kezoki/Wakana the mafia and Brendan is 100% clear right?

Seriously, I believe EVERYONE thinks through what they are gonna post...so why does that only make some people scummy?

Does this mean that you are sure that I'm scum?

No but atm you are suspected quite a bit and if Agatha is right then you would be 100% clear. Plus you are 100% clear because it has to be me, natchi and kezoki/wakana so you are 100% clear.

what

Essentially, Mizuho is saying that if what Agatha says (or at least what Mizuho interpreted of it) is correct, the three who have been the most pro-town are scum. That would mean me, her, and Kezoki or wakana are the scumteam. Therefore, you would be clear since you are not in the scumteam.

rip bbcode+quoting in the post two above me >_>
I wish I could edit that...

oh ok,that had me so confused.

http://gyazo.com/21331a55c16e3fc31598a148ab03fe07 420 notifications, heh.

You'd have less if you actually came on and talked more
So I recall you giving your opinions on people, Brendan. Can you provide some evidence to back up your reads (all of them), please?

I already have put my reads on everyone in a list, which I an quote if needed. The update I put recently was just changing my neutrals to either town or scum. The only switch was Natchi from scum to town because she started majorly contributing with analysis and reads. My one problem I had with kezoki was with his lynches early, but since has fixed that issue I have no reason to suspect him. Mizuho and Warden have been going at each other, but I don't think that was reason enough for them to suspect each other (I didn't check their scumlist although I think I remember Warden having Mizuho as second scummiest). It's possible they may just be putting on a show in case one of them gets lynched. Honestly the only person I completely suspect is Agatha.

Alright. Any thoughts on the walls of text I have posted? I did post one block of text on you.

I have time to kill, so here goes nothing.
Scumteams...amirite?
Here are the players!
Brendan-Mizuho-Kezoki-Wakana-Warden-Agatha
Here are some scumteams that I think could be possible:
Mizuho/Warden/Agatha
I know I had Wakana in here previously(I think), but Wakana doesn't really seem to be linked with any of these guys here. I've already discussed how Mizuho/Warden's arguments could be seen as bussing, and Agatha is interesting because of how she moved on both of their scumlists from mafia to town. Given, this could also be affected by Agatha's posts over the time period of the game, so this is probably the weakest scumteam here.

Kezoki/Agatha/Warden
Yes, I know this is just substituting Mizuho with Kezoki, but it's still kind of viable. Kezoki was very against Agatha at the start, but he may have just been trying to cut off dead weight and establish himself as a trusted town. He was also very willing to give Agatha chances and vote someone else if the opportunity arose, and Agatha's vote onto him did conveniently force him to stay on Osashi, causing her lynch. I did also mention how Warden changed his reads and moved Kezoki+Agatha from scum to who he said that he is 99% sure is town (essentially), although this could be due to changes in their behavior over the course of the game.

Natchi/Brendan/Mizuho
Putting this here for the sole reason that Mizuho and I are the only two who have regularly defended Brendan. However, this wouldn't stack up, since Brendan sees me as scummy and because I don't think there's a single scumlist that has both me and Mizuho as scummy; essentially, based on the reads that everyone else has had, this scumteam would make no sense.

^Think of the above as preliminary scumteams that I thought of; what the current scumteams I think can be present based on my current reads will be below.

Given that, I think Brendan is clear (for now), so I want to try and clear two others. I think Mizuho has been very pro-town and her neutral stance has been key in convincing me that she is town (although I found it interesting that she said it wasn't neutral immediately after someone called being neutral scummy - this is also probably coincidence, but hey, a lot of these seem to happen in this game, eh?) Now, we're left with Wakana/Warden/Kezoki/Agatha, so i'll try to explain why any combination of these three would work.

Warden/Kezoki/Agatha
Already explained
Warden/Kezoki/Wakana
This one doesn't make any sense at all to me, to be honest. Both Warden and Kezoki have switched their reads of Wakana from town to scum over the course of the game, and Wakana has openly suspected Warden. I guess it could be bussing, but I highly doubt it. I'm going to cross this one off.
--------MOMENTARY BREAK----------
At this point, you'll notice that I dismissed the one scumteam not containing Agatha; this does line up with my reads, as I am 99% sure that Agatha is scum at this point. Why am I not lynching her, you ask? I don't want to screw up and thus want to give her a chance to explain/defend herself so I can be sure in my decision.
--------END BREAK-------------------
Warden/Wakana/Agatha
Warden and Wakana seem at odds, and Agatha seems to be relatively neutral/leaning town for them. This one would actually make sense; have two teammates bus each other, and then have one be basically neutral on them both. It would also fulfill the strategy that scum would likely employ: have a semi-active team that contributes enough to not be scummy but not enough to stand out and be scummy if they aren't killed when mafia are lynched.
Kezoki/Wakana/Agatha
I honestly don't think this one would be right. Kezoki switched his read for Wakana and has been fairly aggressive against her, something I don't think you'd really do in bussing. I have explained how Kezoki+Agatha makes sense, and how Agatha+Wakana would also make sense. (Feel free to ask me if you want me to re-explain/clarify what i'm saying here.)

Alright, what i've accomplished from this is that I think the scumteam is Kezoki/Wakana+Warden+Agatha. Once again, going to give them a chance to talk and defend/explain themselves before I make a decision and vote.

I saw and (mostly) read through your reads Natchi (they're kind of hard to miss).  They seemed to appropriately sum up the posts of the remaing living and give insight as to what they may have been thinking when they posted it.  All in all it was very well done (better than I could have done them) and have caused me to change my view of you to town, since my only complaint about you is you weren't really providing many of your own views.

I don't really see how you can bus. It would be inherently obvious as that would mean kinda tunneling a person or saying it so slightly (most possible bus and repeat it a little for town to remember). Also I listed everybody who I thought was scummy and don't really need to come out all defensive, I am not really the desperate type nor the person who needs to plead to not vote for me. Only thing that is scary from the posts seems to be the aggressiveness that seems to be that you are in power of votes. Also posting scumteams over and over again to me is scummy as that it is an effort to influence town to believe it as you contribute yes but you gather every little detail of dirt and come out kinda offensive. Now that I look at that, doesn't seem like a bussing to my previous kezoki and natchi team I suspected as it seems highly likely a possibility and that can be a bussing you say but I really doubt mafia can pull it off like I said at this period and I only stated it once decreasing the chances of that happening. I now think it is a Natchi and Brendan team more strongly. I was thinking Agatha is scummy but 3-4/7 of the town has been viewed by scum iirc and is pretty much looking like an escapegoat to me. Natchi-Brendan- (need to due more in deep investigation to find out who is most likely the third party candidate about everybody). Also Brendan's posts been so friendly to natchi and putting natchi and slightly scum (slightly buss like I said is the most possible) and the moving to clean as it is the better position incase he turns out scum which I'm sure he will).

Although I have suspected her for the better part of the game, I agree that we should give Agatha a chance to defend herself, especially considering the circumstances.

Wakana O. wrote:I don't really see how you can bus. It would be inherently obvious as that would mean kinda tunneling a person or saying it so slightly (most possible bus and repeat it a little for town to remember). Also I listed everybody who I thought was scummy and don't really need to come out all defensive, I am not really the desperate type nor the person who needs to plead to not vote for me. Only thing that is scary from the posts seems to be the aggressiveness that seems to be that you are in power of votes. Also posting scumteams over and over again to me is scummy as that it is an effort to influence town to believe it as you contribute yes but you gather every little detail of dirt and come out kinda offensive. Now that I look at that, doesn't seem like a bussing to my previous kezoki and natchi team I suspected as it seems highly likely a possibility and that can be a bussing you say but I really doubt mafia can pull it off like I said at this period and I only stated it once decreasing the chances of that happening. I now think it is a Natchi and Brendan team more strongly. I was thinking Agatha is scummy but 3-4/7 of the town has been viewed by scum iirc and is pretty much looking like an escapegoat to me. Natchi-Brendan- (need to due more in deep investigation to find out who is most likely the third party candidate about everybody). Also Brendan's posts been so friendly to natchi and putting natchi and slightly scum (slightly buss like I said is the most possible) and the moving to clean as it is the better position incase he turns out scum which I'm sure he will).

I have stated why I believe Natchi to be town. Do you have any evidence that makes you think of Natchi as scum, besides my "friendly" conversation with her?

I never said only you friendly conversations and they were you got to agree. You seem more cold toward everybody else but natchi nor anything is evidence and only scumhunting. Also I would say your scumlists which I said before are scummy and your posts seem to be wanting hard to be town which I said before as well.

And tbh Kezoki encouraging the lynching and overseeing through posts and calling everybody out and stuff is more like overhyped now it seems and trying hard so yeah. Also that "we" was more between you and Natchi since you were the only ones active and were talking to each other which is another friendly but scary post of the power you have between both of you (not hard evidence but inference/deduction). Also it just looks like a gain to be towny in my eyes.

Also if you had read more closely, ik your reasons but the shift of them was what I explained to be a backup (that she posted more was what happened but something to back it up) to make natchi towny.

Also Natchi has being viewing Brendan as scummy but now tries to clean him and now is friendly plus the talking of bussing from Natchi makes me think even more that they are scum.

If someone was bussing they probably wouldn't bring up bussing js. I can see where you are coming from with Natchi and I coming together all of a sudden today, but besides that you still haven't brought up a valid point as to why Natchi should be viewed as scum.

I mean you are kinda defensive towards Natchi in that post. Also what do you want me to say, lurking, fillering. None of that helps now and nothing is valid but now teamups is the only possible way of identifying scum pretty much since they will try to be as active and towny as possible.

Also I said why Natchi is scummy. Don't see anything different in your hypocritical post on why Agatha is scummy. Where is your legit evidence other (inference does not count as legit)

Wakana O. wrote:I don't really see how you can bus. It would be inherently obvious as that would mean kinda tunneling a person or saying it so slightly (most possible bus and repeat it a little for town to remember). Also I listed everybody who I thought was scummy and don't really need to come out all defensive, I am not really the desperate type nor the person who needs to plead to not vote for me.
Only thing that is scary from the posts seems to be the aggressiveness that seems to be that you are in power of votes. Also posting scumteams over and over again to me is scummy as that it is an effort to influence town to believe it as you contribute yes but you gather every little detail of dirt and come out kinda offensive.
Now that I look at that, doesn't seem like a bussing to my previous kezoki and natchi team I suspected as it seems highly likely a possibility and that can be a bussing you say but I really doubt mafia can pull it off like I said at this period and I only stated it once decreasing the chances of that happening. I now think it is a Natchi and Brendan team more strongly.
I was thinking Agatha is scummy but 3-4/7 of the town has been viewed by scum iirc and is pretty much looking like an escapegoat to me. Natchi-Brendan- (need to due more in deep investigation to find out who is most likely the third party candidate about everybody). Also Brendan's posts been so friendly to natchi and putting natchi and slightly scum (slightly buss like I said is the most possible) and the moving to clean as it is the better position incase he turns out scum which I'm sure he will).

Oh god, please indent this next time... (I did it for you because I couldn't read this >_>)
(response numbers correlate to paragraphs)
1) This point confuses me because you point out possible bussing later in your post. What were you trying to say here?
2) How exactly am I in power of everyone's votes? I'm not telling other people what to vote, but listing my reads and trying to generate discussion. I am also posting scumteams over and over again because it's changing after I do new analysis. Finally, if we aren't offensive, how do you expect us to win in LyLo?
3) I don't disagree that Kezoki+me would be a viable scumteam, but what would the third scumpartner be in this situation? I know that listing pairs is easier, but we need to find viable scumteams in groups of three. I don't think there would be any viable partner for both of us other than Mizuho (and if you're seriously suggesting a scum team with the three of us... I don't even know what to say).
4) A Brendan+me scumteam could also make sense, but there's nobody else who could fit into this scumteam (other than Mizuho once again, who is the most pro-town person in the game). Also, in regards to Agatha, I believe Mizuho, Warden, and Kezoki all say she is town (this is from what I remember, I don't have definitive proof of this). That's half of the people other than her.