Game 35: Vengecop

Tedesco T. wrote:

Frank S. wrote:

Orthinol Q. wrote:

Frank S. wrote:well, i'll give an explanation if we lynch them and they flip town.

I don't like this post at all, waiting to give an explanation later is just a scum excuse for not giving a reasoning? It does not forward discussion at all and therefore is anti-town.

I understand and respect your thought process here. That being said, you're wrong and i'm 90% certain I stated that I didn't mention what specifically was pinging me on Lindsay because it was behavioral. If it's something general, then I don't want to reveal it because scum!Lindsay would change their behavior accordingly AND other scum would try and avoid the thing i pointed out.
If there are behavioral reads that I think won't impact the players anymore, I talk about them (i.e. Keenan).

Gail S. wrote:
Yeah, the reason why I scumread Oralie is because she is very indecisive. She definitely engages in conversation, but she doesn't seem to conclude anything. Here are some examples:

"I think they're saying that since Santo assumed today's lynch will be town(WITHOUT knowing who is even going to be lynched, Tobasco dude thinks that Santo might have scumslipped? I'm not 100% sure but that's what I got from it."
Here she is explaining Lindsey's post but she did not provide any opinions about the actual post. In her other post in which she commented on my inspect proposal, she kinda just argued for both sides and end up confused.

"cause this is really hurting my brain right now. Going to let this bop around in my head for a bit."

Then in her last post, she is "confused" again and asked Frank a question. Then, she agreed with not having a specific lynch pool but end her post saying "still trying to put my thoughts into words".

So basically to me, it seems like she is trying to say something, but at the same time also not really saying anything. Although I have to say, after reading it through again, it did not strike me as a hard scum as the first time I read it. But anyways, this is the reasoning for my scum read on her.

This is a good point that I haven't given enough weight to! I think it's a reasonable starting place as well.
Lynch Oralie

Is there anything you find suspicious about any of the other players? Do you feel as strongly about Orthinol as you did on the previous day?

Nanny G. wrote:
At first I thought the best strategy was to inspect the AFKs on death but now I don't know because say they're clear, then we have an AFK leading town.

We should probably just inspect controversial players / our own scum reads.

I don't think there's necessarily anything WRONG with inspecting an AFK player because it does effectively narrow our lynch pool - just because they're clear doesn't mean they necessarily have to lead town, it just means that we can consider their input as 100% coming from town and don't have to doubt it.
mafia might also just off them which will save the more active townies!

wrt inspecting controversial players, sure
own scum reads are definitely good targets, as long as said scum reads werent super public and obvious to track wrt kills

Ok continuing, but then I read this, it kind of rubbed me the wrong way how quick Frank was to jump on the Oralie lynch. I agree that it was a good point made by Gail but I feel like jumping so quickly on the oralie lynch after being accused as scummy seems like he wants to get attention off of him and onto Oralie as quick as possible.

In my opinion, if he was town he wouldn't be as quick to lynch given the circumstances. Obviously, this depends on what Oralie actually is as well but that's just what I observed. Thoughts?

I can kinda see this. After reading back through his posts, it did strike me a few times that he seem to really be going with the flow and trend of the game. One evidence of this is him asking me why I didn't lynch Oralie, could this be an example of wanting to push the lynch away from him? I will elaborate more on this later after I finalize my position on him. There's also another thing I'm considering with the way Frank is posting at the moment, which I will discuss later.

Santo im pretty confident kennan is town based on his entrance.

Thank you for that Nanny, you are truly an imperative player of this game


Yeah so I'm still waiting for Frank to respond to mine/gail's post. I'm going to look more into Oralie and the reasonings behind that but other than that we'll need more people to give their thoughts to progress in the game.

Santo C. wrote:As in, I want Keenan to reply to my question, so I’m lynxhing him  so he is more likely tonotice

Gotcha. Now that Nanny and I have mentioned that Keenan's entrance makes him likely town, I want to ask the previous question as to what you think of our reasoning there. I can quote it for you if needed.

Gail S. wrote:I have some replies/questions for Frank:

1) "This is what i meant by lynch options. Is there anyone you would think is a good lynch here?
Why do you think lynching in the middle of the day impedes discussion?"

Oralie is a good lynch here. Just because I prefer lynching inactive does not mean I have a specific person in mind I want to lynch, which is why I didn't lynch anyone. As for Oralie, there is no need to lynch her before she says anything to the accusations. That is because she has plurality/enough pressure. Lynching in the middle of the day does not impede discussion, but there is also no harm in not lynching the person who has plurality before hearing the defense. Also, I am considering the vote today, I have a second person I am speculating might be mafia, so I don't want to hastily lynch.

a) cool, that's fair
b) I suppose we have differing approaches, and I can understand why you'd think many lynches on a single person could lead to excess pressure & demotivation in town players.
c) don't see why that would prevent you from lynching one person. You seem to be treating each lynch as a seriously grievous offense, which is a bit weird to me admittedly.

Gail S. wrote:
2) "I would like to say that the point was being made by me originally, but Gail confirmed it & elaborated."

I would like to know what "point" you meant here. You replied this to Tedesco's posts who accused you of jumping on to Oralie too quickly. Are you saying that you thought Oralie was scummy before I posted? Because I went back to see your posts and I don't see any mentions of Oralie before I did. Please explain.

Frank S. wrote:
I am curious about the reasoning behind a potential oralie lynch @gail? I do see a potential reason stemming from how she appears to be extremely unsure in everything she says, but nothing else really pings me as suspicious.

you replied in your post confirming this statement, then elaborated on what you meant.

i'll look back to see what tedesco is talking about that i need to respond to because i must have missed it.

Tedesco T. wrote:Thank you for that Nanny, you are truly an imperative player of this game


Yeah so I'm still waiting for Frank to respond to mine/gail's post. I'm going to look more into Oralie and the reasonings behind that but other than that we'll need more people to give their thoughts to progress in the game.

quote what post you wanted me to respond to, i can't find it.
perhaps you skipped over my latest post on the previous day where i responded to you? i had a question for you in there as well.

Frank S. wrote:

Tedesco T. wrote:
Wasn't so much how quickly it was but moreso your reasoning in the post you made about lynching her kind of seemed like you wanted to lynch her to change the focus to Oralie being scummy instead of you. Since it was after Orthinol had just called u out for xyz reasons.
I understand no matter whether you're town or mafia, you don't want to be lynched but obviously mafia has more to lose so town wouldn't be as willing to place their serious lynch unless they were like absolutely positive about their scum read which you didn't really say either.

Thanks for clarifying. What i'd say to counterpoint this is that in my question to Gail, I did bring up Oralie so it was something I was considering, although not as strongly until her post.
It's unfortunate that I came on after Orthinol/Nanny posted but they wouldnt have changed my lynch - unless they argued for reasons why Gail's post didn't hold up.

I'm also a bit curious as to why a lynch is "serious" - realistically, until the end of the day a lynch just marks who you think is the most suspicious / a potential good lynch target. If unlynching didn't exist then sure.
You have mentioned that lynching Oralie is serious, so it would be nice to hear you elaborate if you mean anything other than it being a lynch based on zero reasoning.

Apologies, I must have missed this post.

The fact that the game runs under plurality makes lynching all that more serious, because in plurality, its not just to indicate that you want this person lynched as of now but based on what other people do i.e removing their lynched last minute can get someone else lynched so we obviously need to be more mindful about placing lynches. From my experience, I've noticed town players are more reluctant to lynch because of this fact. Keeping that in mind, correlation doesn't equal causation but I'm just explaining why it came off a little scummy that you were quick to get attention off yourself.

Tedesco T. wrote:
The fact that the game runs under plurality makes lynching all that more serious, because in plurality, its not just to indicate that you want this person lynched as of now but based on what other people do i.e removing their lynched last minute can get someone else lynched so we obviously need to be more mindful about placing lynches. From my experience, I've noticed town players are more reluctant to lynch because of this fact. Keeping that in mind, correlation doesn't equal causation but I'm just explaining why it came off a little scummy that you were quick to get attention off yourself.

Gotcha! I have a different viewpoint, admittedly. I figure that people can change their lynches around at deadline, so lynches before that don't really matter other than to reinforce that you see this person as a viable lynch option and are willing to pursue them.
The one situation where this being plurality is relevant would be if two people are tied in lynch numbers (say 3-3) and you wanted to switch to someone who had two votes. You wouldn't be able to do so successfully, since the other person with 3 votes would be lynched, but realistically in that situation if you hadn't lynched before you'd be in the same spot regardless.
Unless i've missed something, that just means that placing a vote is kinda irrelevant wrt what you're bringing up? Plurality just is a tiebreak method + way to ensure that lynches occur.

When it comes to lynches, I see that as a person being willing to express a strong viewpoint. You may have noticed i'm asking Gail a lot of questions as to why she hasn't lynched anyone, and that's because I find not doing so to be a scummy trait. Putting out reads/arguments and not following them up with a lynch seems to me like you're distancing yourself from the person if they do get lynched, and trying to not claim responsibility if it goes wrong. That's something I can see mafia doing over town.

townpool: frank/keenan/nanny/tedesco/santo

I think i'm right on all of these. if we only inspect in the below group, I believe we win the game?
Would like to know your guys' thoughts.

Gail S.
Ian P.
Jean A.
Oralie O.
Orthinol Q.
Ricky M.

orthinol on day 2 is not someone who looks like town, although he IS remaining consistent to how he behaved in previous days.
the main issue I have with him is his non response to anything I said since he lynched me.
popping in to ask about bussing and leaving is just a really weird thing to do as well.

Santo C. wrote:

Orthinol Q. wrote:Do we think scum is bussing? In set ups this size they usually are, but its very hard to try piece a team together with this level of activity

What?
Where did this come from?
I’m so confused by this post
Do you have an opinion that anyone is currently 2 scum bussing atm? If not, why would you randomly ask this without responding to anything

I dont think a lot of what was said warrants response, people are attempting to pull reads out of nowhere imo and I don't blame them, we have no real content to work with. If I had to lynch now I would still say Frank but honestly it feels pretty rand still?

Ian P. wrote:

Orthinol Q. wrote:Do we think scum is bussing? In set ups this size they usually are, but its very hard to try piece a team together with this level of activity

With this level of activity I doubt scum would bus

Yeah this makes sense

Frank S. wrote:townpool: frank/keenan/nanny/tedesco/santo

I think i'm right on all of these. if we only inspect in the below group, I believe we win the game?
Would like to know your guys' thoughts.

Gail S.
Ian P.
Jean A.
Oralie O.
Orthinol Q.
Ricky M.

I think this post is a bad look btw, in this set up you shouldn't give scum info as to who might be copped. Trying to control who is copped is also very beneficial to scum. If Frank flips scum we know at least one other scum is in the town pool he listed here though I think?

Frank S. wrote:orthinol on day 2 is not someone who looks like town, although he IS remaining consistent to how he behaved in previous days.
the main issue I have with him is his non response to anything I said since he lynched me.
popping in to ask about bussing and leaving is just a really weird thing to do as well.

I don't have to comment on everything someone says to scum read them, nice attempt to discredit me though!

Frank S. wrote:

Tedesco T. wrote:
The fact that the game runs under plurality makes lynching all that more serious, because in plurality, its not just to indicate that you want this person lynched as of now but based on what other people do i.e removing their lynched last minute can get someone else lynched so we obviously need to be more mindful about placing lynches. From my experience, I've noticed town players are more reluctant to lynch because of this fact. Keeping that in mind, correlation doesn't equal causation but I'm just explaining why it came off a little scummy that you were quick to get attention off yourself.

Gotcha! I have a different viewpoint, admittedly. I figure that people can change their lynches around at deadline, so lynches before that don't really matter other than to reinforce that you see this person as a viable lynch option and are willing to pursue them.
The one situation where this being plurality is relevant would be if two people are tied in lynch numbers (say 3-3) and you wanted to switch to someone who had two votes. You wouldn't be able to do so successfully, since the other person with 3 votes would be lynched, but realistically in that situation if you hadn't lynched before you'd be in the same spot regardless.
Unless i've missed something, that just means that placing a vote is kinda irrelevant wrt what you're bringing up? Plurality just is a tiebreak method + way to ensure that lynches occur.

When it comes to lynches, I see that as a person being willing to express a strong viewpoint. You may have noticed i'm asking Gail a lot of questions as to why she hasn't lynched anyone, and that's because I find not doing so to be a scummy trait. Putting out reads/arguments and not following them up with a lynch seems to me like you're distancing yourself from the person if they do get lynched, and trying to not claim responsibility if it goes wrong. That's something I can see mafia doing over town.

I understand your point about not lynching. However, the argument would definitely hold up better if I never lynched this game. If you think I am not willing to be blamed for my lynches, why do you think I lynched Kain the last moment? That just puts me as the sole person responsible for Kain being lynched. I have explained thoroughly my thought process behind that lynch, and why I am holding my lynch for Oralie. Honestly, it is just a matter of playstyle at the moment. I could ask you the same question, why do you feel the need to push a lynch for Oralie when she hasn't come and said any defense? My lynch would not add anything.

Frank S. wrote:lol yikes thats an unfortunate inspect
wacky nightkill too i suppose, but i guess thats just because i was the only one who was considering lindsey as scum?
the reads i haven't clarified are b/c they were based on behavioral cues, and talking about them would make the scum in the game try to avoid said cues

I am curious about the reasoning behind a potential oralie lynch @gail? I do see a potential reason stemming from how she appears to be extremely unsure in everything she says, but nothing else really pings me as suspicious.

also my original keenan townread was coined because I don't think scum ever enters the game the way he did, since its an easy way to put negative focus on him with zero positive gain

In response to this post and you claiming to say it first, I will add that I said
"Honestly, my gut says Oralie. Yes, this is controversial. But some of her posts just bug me and seems a little off. She is giving me this town mediator vibe, and her reactions to thing seem a little too neutral for my liking."
on page 4.

Orthinol Q. wrote:

Santo C. wrote:

Orthinol Q. wrote:Do we think scum is bussing? In set ups this size they usually are, but its very hard to try piece a team together with this level of activity

What?
Where did this come from?
I’m so confused by this post
Do you have an opinion that anyone is currently 2 scum bussing atm? If not, why would you randomly ask this without responding to anything

I dont think a lot of what was said warrants response, people are attempting to pull reads out of nowhere imo and I don't blame them, we have no real content to work with. If I had to lynch now I would still say Frank but honestly it feels pretty rand still?

I do still think Frank is bad but at least hes talking. I think lynching an inactive with bad lines like Oralie is probably better

Orthinol Q. wrote:I think this post is a bad look btw, in this set up you shouldn't give scum info as to who might be copped. Trying to control who is copped is also very beneficial to scum. If Frank flips scum we know at least one other scum is in the town pool he listed here though I think?

Yes, that's something I literally explained, but if it solves the game then town wins. A bit strange that you seem to be so heavily against it.

Orthinol Q. wrote:I don't have to comment on everything someone says to scum read them, nice attempt to discredit me though!

You're right. Ignoring someone's response to your arguments and continuing to blindly scumread them is not a good thing to do, though.

Gail S. wrote:I understand your point about not lynching. However, the argument would definitely hold up better if I never lynched this game. If you think I am not willing to be blamed for my lynches, why do you think I lynched Kain the last moment? That just puts me as the sole person responsible for Kain being lynched. I have explained thoroughly my thought process behind that lynch, and why I am holding my lynch for Oralie. Honestly, it is just a matter of playstyle at the moment. I could ask you the same question, why do you feel the need to push a lynch for Oralie when she hasn't come and said any defense? My lynch would not add anything.

A hesitance to lynch is not the same as not lynching whatsoever. My intent was to convey that you're doing the first one, rather than the second.
As for me lynching Oralie, you talking about her originally made me consider her, then you elaborating made me lynch her? I'm a bit unsure as to what's wrong with doing so. I haven't really pushed an oralie lynch post-her saying that she was going to respond as well.
Your lynch wouldnt necessarily add anything at this point, but not lynching in your original post is what pings me as a bit off.

Gail S. wrote:In response to this post and you claiming to say it first, I will add that I said
"Honestly, my gut says Oralie. Yes, this is controversial. But some of her posts just bug me and seems a little off. She is giving me this town mediator vibe, and her reactions to thing seem a little too neutral for my liking."
on page 4.

The points you and I brought up are completely different. I didn't say that I proposed the Oralie lynch first, I said that I provided a potential reason which you elaborated on, and I lynched her as a result.

Votecount 2.3
******************************
Oralie O.(2)- Nanny G., Frank S.
Frank S.(1)- Orthinol Q.
Keenan M.(1)- Santo C.
Nanny G.(0)-
Orthinol Q.(0)-
Gail S.(0)-
Tedesco T.(0)-
Santo C.(0)-
Jean A.(0)-
Ricky M.(0)-
Ian P.(0)-
Not Voting(7)- Ian P., Jean A., Ricky M., Keenan M., Gail S., Tedesco T., Oralie O.
******************************
There are 11 alive so it takes 6 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Sunday the 3rd at 9pm EST.

Oralie O. was lynched.

she was the...:

Night 2 Commence! Deadline is the 4th at 9pm EST.

Hey guys! So just letting you all know I'm finding a couple subs, and I've gotten one so far. I'm gonna start the day once I find the other one, sorry for the delay!

the death last night was of...:

Day 3 Commence!

Votecount 3.0
******************************
Frank S.(0)-
Keenan M.(0)-
Nanny G.(0)-
Orthinol Q.(0)-
Gail S.(0)-
Tedesco T.(0)-
Jean A.(0)-
Ricky M.(0)-
Ian P.(0)-
Not Voting(9)- Ian P., Jean A., Ricky M., Keenan M., Gail S., Tedesco T., Nanny G., Frank S.
******************************
There are 9 alive so it takes 5 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Friday the 8th at 9pm EST.

Jean A. and Ricky M. have been subbed out. New users are using their accounts.

For some reason I thought deadline would not be this early. I came online to post but the day already ended. Now I can understand clearer why Frank was very skeptical of me about not lynching.

Frank and me are autocleared. Last mafias are probably in the AFKs or they wouldve moved the lynch.

Vote Ricky M

Nanny and Gail town, Frank I'm still kinda unhappy with day 1 but he looks better day 2. There's better lynches anyways for sure, I agree we need to kinds focus on the inactives but it's just kinda rand? Should we all just sheep onto the same one or what? Clearing them with cop also would be very helpful if there's any town deaths, stop us mislynching the spots we have no info on.

Are angleshoots allowed?