Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Putting my reads out now since I haven't openly discussed my feelings on many of the people in this game thus far.

Clara: Slight activity drop early, but that was mostly due to there being 10 pages of posts by the 30th hour of day 1. She had fairly logical analysis in her first set of reads, but her scumread on Halsey felt sort of forced, like she was picking on anything that would make him seem scummy. Emmy brought up her multiple interpretations of how much of the game she thought Halsey read, when I feel like the point that was being brought up in the post she referenced was that the sheer volume of Emmy's posts overshadowed Cherry's in their discussion, which left Halsey with a scum lean on Cherry after reading through. I don't see the argument that he hadn't read through the entire game as accurate, and although it would make more sense I also don't think he simply read through only the first half either. She also left Kimmy and I as null reads at the same point, and later explained that "I dont have a clear read on whether they are town or scum". Looking back, it kind of feels like she picked one of us to scumread and landed on Halsey after seeing his "weird posts". Her more recent posts paint him in a better light, and it feels like she's stepping back from what was a fairly hard scumread. Neutral, leaning scum, she had a fair but bland analysis on Emmy and Cherry, and has ignored Kimmy and I as well as the other inactives to target Halsey, and then threw in Infernado as a lynch candidate after Halsey began to defend himself.

Halsey: Most of what he posted early day 1 has been thoroughly discussed, so I'm going to focus mostly on his recent posts. He likes to go into immense detail on everybody's posting styles and pressure/question people about how they are interacting with other players. His large posts have been a massive source of activity for this game, and he's doing a good job of holding people accountable for their reads/remarks about other players. His calling out of Cherry's lynch logic is valid, as I will discuss in her read, and as a whole his analysis of the game has been logical and fair, while also being extremely detailed. Leaning town, great reads/source of activity following a concerning entry into the game originally.

Shepherd: RVS lynch. RVS unlynch. Redundant fruit discussion. Inactivity. Null read, I can't get a read on someone who never posts, much less two people.

Anima: One of her main posts of interest were her suggestion of a chain of fruit passes, of which I think she was one of the first to mention, so that is a point in her favor. However, the other post was about 5 steps backwards, as she comes from a spell of inactivity to ask for an update on who everyone suspects without adding any input of her own, then disappears again, only to return to people lynching her and asking for an explanation for her lurking inactivity, to which she responds, "?". Her post content is severely lacking, as her only real contribution was to theme based strategy, and she has not done any scumhunting of her own while practically asking the rest of the game to do so for her. Leaning scum, not much post content to go off, but not responding well to pressure at all.

Jeremiah W. wrote:On day 1, I think people are still trying to get accustomed to the game and tend to say or do things that can be interpreted as a scumslip.  When people don't have much to go off of, they latch to these small bits of info and pressure them on it, and sometimes the player will respond poorly or simply go inactive and not respond at all, and then we have a dead townie day 1.  When I referred to the day 1 lynch as a roll of that dice, that's what I meant by it.

A player like Anima is what I was referring to here. As of now, it seems likely that she will be lynched today, and there's a good chance statistically that she's simply a townie who fell behind and made an attempt to get caught up on the game that was viewed as scummy, and responded to the pressure poorly. Obviously the chance exists that she is indeed a scum that just played a very poor day 1, but that usually isn't the case.

Caroline: Her recent discussion about Halsey's earlier posts have some good insights about how the hydra aspect of the game might impact how we view his sudden flip from scumread to townread. Before that, she was primarily discussing the logistics of fruit passing trains, and made certain points that I would almost expect scum not to mention in hopes that nobody else would bring up (wifom, I know). Her talks about how lists should be randomised and by whom all gave off serious town vibes. Her analysis of other players thus far has been, dare I say it, dazzling. Town, everything she does seems to be in an attempt to bring town closer to finding the scum.

Dr Proctor: Hasn't posted much yet, but he said that "in about 16 hours or so" he'll make a post about his thoughts. Im horrible at interpreting this forum's time system, but I think it has been about 18 hours since his post at the time I am typing this. Neutral, leaning scum, waiting on his thoughts to be posted, but a sheer lack of contribution so far.

Emmy: She has been actively involved in practically every discussion in this game, and like Caroline she seems committed to leading discussion towards town catching the scum. Her recent reads all have sound logic, and follow up nicely on her individual analysis of other players. She is one of the main reasons that this game is already pushing 12 pages of content on day 1, and much of it is meaningful discussion. Town, her commitment to analyzing this game is far greater than the average player (possibly supplemented by the hydra setup).

Infernando: Practically zero content, and yet this hydra still finds something to disagree with himself on. Practically no original contributions despite apparently viewing the forum everyday. Neutral, lack of content, lack of direction since the two heads can't seem to agree on one thing, despite only 6 posts during the game thus far. Pre edit: he seems to be reading through and responding now at the very least, which is a good sign.

Kimmy: His scumhunting seems to be strictly in a black and white sense, where everything is either scum or town. He just got offline as I am typing this, and is absolutely convinced that Anima is mafia. The problem with this game is that nothing can be black and white until AJ announces it as so. Until someone is revealed to be a certain role by a definite confirmation, there is still at least a minute chance that they are not that role. This thinking can be seen in his initial read that Halsey had contributed nothing and that he was extremely scummy, and now sees him as a misunderstood town. Neutral, leaning scum, his black and white view on everything just rubs me the wrong way.

Cherry: I've discussed most of her posts in detail already, but Halsey called her out on something recently that caught my attention. I had come to terms with her reasons for lynching Halsey and I, as the reasons that were being presented at the time made sense. Halsey's recent post regarding her lynches calls her out for a lack of consistency between the reasons for her lynch at the time of lynching versus her reasons at the time of unlynching. When she switched her lynch to Halsey from me, it was because she perceived him as the scummier player at the time. However, she didn't lynch Anima when she saw Anima's actions as scummy later on, and had dismissed her scumread on me entirely. From rereading her posts again, I get the feeling that one Cherry user was responsible for lynching me and then lynching Halsey, and the other Cherry user is responsible for the Halsey unlynch and Anima scumread. This is due to the playstyle of the Cherry who lynched the scummiest person at the time not lining up with the recent actions of the account in the game. This may account for the inconsistencies that Halsey pointed out, and explain why Cherry seems to be constantly defending her reads. Neutral, much of her game has been spent defending her early reads, and she has yet to really scumread much, at one point generalizing most of the game as "scumleans"

At this point in the game, my biggest townread is Caroline, and Anima's recent lurking and apparent refusal to defend herself has her as my biggest scumread.

Emmy A. wrote:Actually, I just thought of a way we can still get an alignment indicating reaction from Anima even if I post my readlist. Here we go.

Infernando G.-Neutral, slight scum lean. People have mentioned most of my problems with Infernando already. Looking over his posts, he firsts lynches Anima while quoting her confirmation post, so I want to hear what that was about and if it was a serious vote. His post where he chastises his partner for not posting is off because it seems like he's just posting to remain active as opposed to scumhunting. This is supported by the fact that the post is just a comment on the fruit chain. I've noticed Clara and I think someone else mentioning Infernando as a good lynch, which I disagree with, as I want to see more of his thoughts on the game and response to what's been said about his votes on Anima and myself.


Now I think we should wait for Halsey and Anima's reads.

No my Anima lynch at that point was just RVS. And I only mentioned my partner cause for some active players both of their people are probably active on the account (not all but some) so I wanted to make that clear.
And at that point the fruit chain was the only general thing in question so I mentioned it. I didn't have enough information on players to be able to support or go against a lynch so I was just reading

And Caroline, sweeeeeet caroliiiiiineeeee pah pah pah!!!!!!!!!
I explained why i thought it was scummy, in the first post I mentioned it and I'm not even pushing the lynch cause I know its not enough to determine her as scum today I'm simply exercising my rights by using my lynch.

Also I go by Mime jr. now tyvm

Infernando G. wrote:Tfw why did my person lynch then lurk

unlynch

BROTHER

YOURE HERE

WHY DID U SIMPLY UNDO MY DOINGS THEN LEAVE DAFUQ

Caroline M. wrote:
yeah, why lynch when at the time you literally didnt have a reason and instead had a better reason to lynch anima? Like if I was gonna lynch between someone just to follow up on my pre-game lynch and someone who I legit have an FoS on (whatever the significance), I'd definitely decisively dazzlingly lynch the latter option. Which is why I find it a bit odd that you went for the former option.

OK, this is a bit hard for me to explain but i'll do my best.
The reasoning I had for anima was not strong whatsoever and really didn't amount to anything other than an FOS (the weakness of the reasoning was demonstrated when you p much dismantled it in one sentence, lol). Due to that, I didn't lynch anima because I had a reason to lynch Jeremiah (even if I didn't remember it). If I could somehow copy my mindstate it would clear things up a lot more but unfortunately I can't do that, so just let me know if you want me to explain this differently.

Caroline M. wrote:
I took another look at Cherry's ISOs and it just looks like the more aggressive cherry was because she was frustrated that she was repeating the same thing a few times.

ding ding ding

Halsey N. wrote:

Cherry: The way I see it, there's zero benefit to trying to convince someone to maintain the same opinion that they already have.

I asked why you ended it. Jeremiah did some stuff you thought was scummy overall. Jeremiah falling back from his lynch on you was only a part of the bigger picture so I don't understand why your discussion about Jeremiah would fall. I can see Kimmy but that's only because you only interacted with him only because of his post and nothing more.

Have you been working out? I ask because ur leaps are INCREDIBLE.
The discussions I was referring to are jeremiah not liking my logic for the lynches (and he had faulty logic which was due to him misunderstanding, something which he clarified later) and kimmy's lynch on you. My goal was to make them see what was wrong with their respective arguments, but they both realized that their arguments were wrong later so there was no point in my eyes of convincing them that their argument was wrong when they already admitted that this was the case.
I don't know where the me dropping any and all discussion about jeremiah comes from

Halsey N. wrote:
I mean, all of this was a negative town behavior at first and then all of this just becomes grossly warped.

come on man, i know like at least 3 people (including yourself) haven't been reading my posts properly but you're still doing it!!
let me attempt to re-explain.
When jeremiah first posts the self-aware joke, I lynch him because that's a) either a bad town mindset or a scum mindset, and it's worth calling it out regardless since its a) a mindset that needs to change or b) scum. My lynch on him once the game starts was following through on that lynch despite forgetting the reason I had for it. I then post the reason later, but apparently do not distinguish that the behavior is at best negative town (and potentially scum) properly. I clarify this later.

Halsey N. wrote:
Also I gave some thought to some stuff. I don't think I like your excuse of not remembering at all when you can just scroll back to the page 1 userlist and remember (even if it had been 2 days). It's a terrible excuse

well deal with it, its the truth
it was also two pages back

Halsey N. wrote:
What I do not like however, is his immediate dismissal because I'm sure your account has a good understanding of the game seen by your posts and if town, neither of you would have just done this. My read atm for you is scumlean due to all of this.

where tf am i dismissing him im so confused

Halsey N. wrote:
It is a clear dismissal in my eyes. This is because in the same exact psot, you talk about this:


Cherry P.:This is pretty big. I see zero reason for town!Halsey to discount the fruit passing strategy (did anyone else even say it was useless? I remember seeing this post and thinking it was strange but not going back to check whether or not what he said was true).


which is basically a discussion of my alignment.

hows me discussing your alignment equate to me dismissing my discussion on jeremiah??? pls explain thx

Kimmy S. wrote:
Why go through the hassle of unlynching tbh? Leaving your vote on him will probably generate better responses since they knows they should take you seriously in the case they're scum, no?

maybe. I said why I unlynched though and I think this is just a playstyle difference wrt how we treat our lynch (I was similarly confused as to why you lynched anima w/o any apparent reason).

Anima V. wrote:?

we're being memed lads

couple questions for halsey

you said the first four posts were an attempt to catch scum, stated what scum would do, stated what I would do (which was either not similar whatsoever/was the opposite, idr) and then said that what I did was similar to what scum would do. Were you just reading my posts poorly or was there another reason for this?

why did you dismiss the fruit passing strategy at the start? this was after the four posts which you said were your plan so don't try to lump it in there.

lame i had more but im forgetting
ill post em when i get em

wrt fruit passing:
I think everyone should give a randomized list which we can use if that person dies and flips town
for tonight I think we just go down the playerlist

The original player list? Or the one in the order of the lynches?

@Infernando Just provide a list of the 11 players in the game with a randomized order to use for the second round of fruit passing. This way we can use a dead townie's randomized list for the second go around to ensure against mafia tampering.

My randomized list:
Clara H.
Dr. Proctor
Halsey N.
Caroline M.
Infernando G.
Anima V.
Emmy A.
Cherry P.
Kimmy S.
Shepherd D.
Jeremiah W.

Kimmy S. wrote:@Caroline what does it matter whether he planned this all from the start or it was a coincidence he made his plan around? It all served Town eventually, and that's what matters, no?
As scum, there are probably far easier ways to cover that up under a sea of other posts, rather than take this attention-grabbing, high-risk manner of covering up.

Yes I know I was one of those who heavily criticized the plan about how it forced us to assume he was Town, how it could cause problems etc. etc., but I reread and changed my opinion after the conversation.

What about his posts make you consider whether it was a cover-up or an elaborate plan? Apart from the fact that it's a hydra, what makes you think the option of a cover-up is likely compared to the whole elaborate plan thing?

It matters whether he planned his dazzling plan from the start or not, because as dazzling as it is, planning is the difference between a town doing tests and getting the game going, and a scum dazzling everyone to cover up how scummy they were being.

"It all served town" while dazzling, is not all that matters. Scum can serve town too, yet they're still scum, they're just trying to dazzle us all to make sure we don't notice. And as much as this is high risk, it's also high reward. If it works, nobody will ever doubt you again. If it doesn't, well, too bad, but other methods don't work in long term.

I am still not entirely convinced into either direction, he is dazzling but whether that's coming from a scum perspective or from a town one is not clear. I only know that hydra makes me trust him less.

here's my list:
Cherry
Infernando
Caroline
Anima
Emmy
Dr. Proctor
Halsey
Clara
Jeremiah
Kimmy
Anima
and back to Cherry

Caroline M. wrote:

It matters whether he planned his dazzling plan from the start or not, because as dazzling as it is, planning is the difference between a town doing tests and getting the game going, and a scum dazzling everyone to cover up how scummy they were being.

"It all served town" while dazzling, is not all that matters. Scum can serve town too, yet they're still scum, they're just trying to dazzle us all to make sure we don't notice. And as much as this is high risk, it's also high reward. If it works, nobody will ever doubt you again. If it doesn't, well, too bad, but other methods don't work in long term.

I am still not entirely convinced into either direction, he is dazzling but whether that's coming from a scum perspective or from a town one is not clear. I only know that hydra makes me trust him less.

pls stop with the dazzling its hurting my eyes
I think a supporting point for the plan potentially being fake is that he tried to get some use out of it by saying I fell into similar behavior from what he would expect from scum (which wasn't the case, but w/e). It's why I want to figure out what halsey's motive was behind that section.

Caroline M. wrote:
I understand that it wasnt the plan itself that led you to your first conclusion but what I was saying is that what you were looking for from your plan wasnt reflected in your read against Cherry. It also emphasised the fact the hydra aspect is lessening the scumlean when your plan implied that your analysis of the hydra increased the scumlean. However despite this, you said in the same post:

Halsey N. wrote:
I waited 10 hours and tried to see if anything changed and how players reacted to my post. I liked what I saw from players like Emmi since they didnt try to outright lynch me and see the positive of that. I did not like what I saw from players like Cherry which I stated above.

Which directly implies that your dazzling plan was what gave you this read. However now you are saying (which i believe because it makes sense) that you scumread cherry due to her dismissal of jeremiah. Although you admitted that your plan didnt really work the way you wanted because you didnt really get any meaningful conclusions out of it, the fact that you were fairly adamant in stating that your plan was what led you to your read on cherry makes it feel like you're trying too hard to show that it really was all a scheme. On top of the fact that if it really was a scheme then it would have made more sense to reveal the plan a little later to actually get something useful out of it.

This may just be me, but I think the timing of Halsey's reveal makes sense. It was intended to develop reads/generate discussion, and the ability to do both of those is hindered if you wait until later in the day.  I'm looking back at Cherry for the dismissal of Jeremiah, but what I'm understanding from Halsey's post is that while misinterpretation may have caused his initial scumlean on Cherry, that doesn't mean she's instantly off the hook.

Caroline M. wrote:
So far Anima and Shepherd are my top 2 contenders for most likely to be mafia. Shepherd I have talked about and the fact that he has come on a couple more times doesnt help his case at all. Same thing can be said about Anima. Even though she went through the effort at the start to explain the scenarios for the dazzling fruit plan, its just as important for scum to know about them too in order to not fall for any of the traps. Although its true she could have just said it in the quicktopic at night, I dont think a scum!Anima would miss this opportunity to gain early towncred without having to press on with the scumhunting.

Although I have called out jeremiah a few times for lack of effort to accelerate town's progress, I think we should let him live for day 2 and see whether its true that his retreatment is due to the lack of solid and meaningful information in day 1.

I agree with you on Anima; with Shepherd I'm unsure if he keeps coming online without enough time to post. (Thought of this after I'd logged off actually and was going to bring it up with Anima too until "?".) You mention that it's unlikely to be due to irl events, which I agree with, but sooner or later Shepherd will have to either post of be subbed out. Thus, I have Clara as more likely to be scum. I agree on letting Jeremiah live to Day 2 and seeing how he plays once he has a full day's worth of content to read back on. (I see Jeremiah has a readlist, so that's nice.)

As Kimmy pointed out, Halsey is noticeably absent here. You mention something along the lines of "I don't know what read I would give you," which is a bit disheartening considering that you've had ample interactions with Halsey and he has (at the time of this post) 54 posts to read back on. Like, are you 100% unsure or do you have a lean in any direction?

Kimmy S. wrote:
Emmy had a few solid responses to stuff, but few self-originated points come from them.

Really? I'd say I've been originating my own things. Then again, I'm biased.

Infernando G. wrote:Tfw why did my person lynch then lurk

unlynch

Why did you unlynch then lurk?

Infernando G. wrote:<snip>
Then why not Night 2 and Night 4 for example, I just don't understand how doing it Night 1 is any more beneficial :O

Personally, I think using at least one of them Night 1 is helpful for the discussion we get. As someone else (was it Cherry?) mentioned, it's helpful to have more opinions early on.

Infernando G. wrote:<snip>

No my Anima lynch at that point was just RVS. And I only mentioned my partner cause for some active players both of their people are probably active on the account (not all but some) so I wanted to make that clear.
And at that point the fruit chain was the only general thing in question so I mentioned it. I didn't have enough information on players to be able to support or go against a lynch so I was just reading

And Caroline, sweeeeeet caroliiiiiineeeee pah pah pah!!!!!!!!!
I explained why i thought it was scummy, in the first post I mentioned it and I'm not even pushing the lynch cause I know its not enough to determine her as scum today I'm simply exercising my rights by using my lynch.

Also I go by Mime jr. now tyvm

What about now? With Day 1 ending today I'd think there's enough to support/go against a lynch. Your second paragraph here I don't understand, but I think it's a playstyle difference? I normally use my lynch to pressure or push people I think are scum, while here you seem to be implying you use it as a FoS (only it's not a FoS since you're lynching, but...yeah.)

How does your partner feel about that, Mime Jr.?

Splitting this up, this is getting longer than I anticipated.

Infernando G. wrote:

Infernando G. wrote:Tfw why did my person lynch then lurk

unlynch

BROTHER

YOURE HERE

WHY DID U SIMPLY UNDO MY DOINGS THEN LEAVE DAFUQ

Okay, but you didn't redo it. If I'm correctly understanding the way you like to use your lynch, what happened?

Caroline M. wrote:<snip>
"It all served town" while dazzling, is not all that matters. Scum can serve town too, yet they're still scum, they're just trying to dazzle us all to make sure we don't notice. And as much as this is high risk, it's also high reward. If it works, nobody will ever doubt you again. If it doesn't, well, too bad, but other methods don't work in long term.

But what incentive is there for Halsey, as scum, to call it a plan? If it's a hydra and the other Halsey has come online to see what his partner did, couldn't he just denounce his partner and start anew?

I assume that if Anima doesn't give a list, we go down the order in the OP. For now, the RNG has graced me with the following list:

Caroline M.
Dr. Proctor
Infernando G.
Clara H.
Kimmy S.
Jeremiah W.
Emmy A.
Cherry P.
Anima V.
Shepherd D.
Halsey N.

Cherry P. wrote:

Caroline M. wrote:

It matters whether he planned his dazzling plan from the start or not, because as dazzling as it is, planning is the difference between a town doing tests and getting the game going, and a scum dazzling everyone to cover up how scummy they were being.

"It all served town" while dazzling, is not all that matters. Scum can serve town too, yet they're still scum, they're just trying to dazzle us all to make sure we don't notice. And as much as this is high risk, it's also high reward. If it works, nobody will ever doubt you again. If it doesn't, well, too bad, but other methods don't work in long term.

I am still not entirely convinced into either direction, he is dazzling but whether that's coming from a scum perspective or from a town one is not clear. I only know that hydra makes me trust him less.

pls stop with the dazzling its hurting my eyes
I think a supporting point for the plan potentially being fake is that he tried to get some use out of it by saying I fell into similar behavior from what he would expect from scum (which wasn't the case, but w/e). It's why I want to figure out what halsey's motive was behind that section.

And I, too, want ot figure out what halsey's motive was. Though for now I am curious, what alternative should I use for dazzling? Sparkling? Glittering? Stunning? Beaming?

Cherry P. wrote:

Caroline M. wrote:

It matters whether he planned his dazzling plan from the start or not, because as dazzling as it is, planning is the difference between a town doing tests and getting the game going, and a scum dazzling everyone to cover up how scummy they were being.

"It all served town" while dazzling, is not all that matters. Scum can serve town too, yet they're still scum, they're just trying to dazzle us all to make sure we don't notice. And as much as this is high risk, it's also high reward. If it works, nobody will ever doubt you again. If it doesn't, well, too bad, but other methods don't work in long term.

I am still not entirely convinced into either direction, he is dazzling but whether that's coming from a scum perspective or from a town one is not clear. I only know that hydra makes me trust him less.

pls stop with the dazzling its hurting my eyes
I think a supporting point for the plan potentially being fake is that he tried to get some use out of it by saying I fell into similar behavior from what he would expect from scum (which wasn't the case, but w/e). It's why I want to figure out what halsey's motive was behind that section.

You mean, it dazzled your eyes! Ayyyyy

Emmy A. wrote:

Caroline M. wrote:
I understand that it wasnt the plan itself that led you to your first conclusion but what I was saying is that what you were looking for from your plan wasnt reflected in your read against Cherry. It also emphasised the fact the hydra aspect is lessening the scumlean when your plan implied that your analysis of the hydra increased the scumlean. However despite this, you said in the same post:

Halsey N. wrote:
I waited 10 hours and tried to see if anything changed and how players reacted to my post. I liked what I saw from players like Emmi since they didnt try to outright lynch me and see the positive of that. I did not like what I saw from players like Cherry which I stated above.

Which directly implies that your dazzling plan was what gave you this read. However now you are saying (which i believe because it makes sense) that you scumread cherry due to her dismissal of jeremiah. Although you admitted that your plan didnt really work the way you wanted because you didnt really get any meaningful conclusions out of it, the fact that you were fairly adamant in stating that your plan was what led you to your read on cherry makes it feel like you're trying too hard to show that it really was all a scheme. On top of the fact that if it really was a scheme then it would have made more sense to reveal the plan a little later to actually get something useful out of it.

This may just be me, but I think the timing of Halsey's reveal makes sense. It was intended to develop reads/generate discussion, and the ability to do both of those is hindered if you wait until later in the day.  I'm looking back at Cherry for the dismissal of Jeremiah, but what I'm understanding from Halsey's post is that while misinterpretation may have caused his initial scumlean on Cherry, that doesn't mean she's instantly off the hook.

Perhaps generating discussion may have been hindered, but developing reads definitely wouldnt have since i think waiting for your "scheme" to actually take full effect will generate much better reads imo. However now that i think about it, i feel like due to the plan being fairly dependent on ones ability to differentiate between hydras and some other things that make it flawed (mentioned in previous posts), waiting a bit longer may have backtracked the progress of town slightly. But I am not sure how much it would have mattered since it was like the first 12 hours of day 1 or so.

Emmy A. wrote:

Caroline M. wrote:
So far Anima and Shepherd are my top 2 contenders for most likely to be mafia. Shepherd I have talked about and the fact that he has come on a couple more times doesnt help his case at all. Same thing can be said about Anima. Even though she went through the effort at the start to explain the scenarios for the dazzling fruit plan, its just as important for scum to know about them too in order to not fall for any of the traps. Although its true she could have just said it in the quicktopic at night, I dont think a scum!Anima would miss this opportunity to gain early towncred without having to press on with the scumhunting.

Although I have called out jeremiah a few times for lack of effort to accelerate town's progress, I think we should let him live for day 2 and see whether its true that his retreatment is due to the lack of solid and meaningful information in day 1.

I agree with you on Anima; with Shepherd I'm unsure if he keeps coming online without enough time to post. (Thought of this after I'd logged off actually and was going to bring it up with Anima too until "?".) You mention that it's unlikely to be due to irl events, which I agree with, but sooner or later Shepherd will have to either post of be subbed out. Thus, I have Clara as more likely to be scum. I agree on letting Jeremiah live to Day 2 and seeing how he plays once he has a full day's worth of content to read back on. (I see Jeremiah has a readlist, so that's nice.)

As Kimmy pointed out, Halsey is noticeably absent here. You mention something along the lines of "I don't know what read I would give you," which is a bit disheartening considering that you've had ample interactions with Halsey and he has (at the time of this post) 54 posts to read back on. Like, are you 100% unsure or do you have a lean in any direction?

Maybe not 100% sure, but not sure enough for a dazzling read unfortunately. I guess the 0.001% comes from the fact Halsey's has undeniably been driving this game forward which seems too good to be scum.

Caroline M. wrote:

Cherry P. wrote:

Caroline M. wrote:

It matters whether he planned his dazzling plan from the start or not, because as dazzling as it is, planning is the difference between a town doing tests and getting the game going, and a scum dazzling everyone to cover up how scummy they were being.

"It all served town" while dazzling, is not all that matters. Scum can serve town too, yet they're still scum, they're just trying to dazzle us all to make sure we don't notice. And as much as this is high risk, it's also high reward. If it works, nobody will ever doubt you again. If it doesn't, well, too bad, but other methods don't work in long term.

I am still not entirely convinced into either direction, he is dazzling but whether that's coming from a scum perspective or from a town one is not clear. I only know that hydra makes me trust him less.

pls stop with the dazzling its hurting my eyes
I think a supporting point for the plan potentially being fake is that he tried to get some use out of it by saying I fell into similar behavior from what he would expect from scum (which wasn't the case, but w/e). It's why I want to figure out what halsey's motive was behind that section.

And I, too, want ot figure out what halsey's motive was. Though for now I am curious, what alternative should I use for dazzling? Sparkling? Glittering? Stunning? Beaming?

NOOOO DONT YOU DARE BETRAY THE GODS OF THE RAZZLE DAZZLE

As far as lynches go, I am conflicted. I don't think Halsey should be lynched right now, I am certain he has more dazzling arguments to make, and I would like to give them some more time. But then we do need an alternative for the lynch, and the sheer ammount of posts here is honestly overwhelming me. I have also run out of time to reread so I'm afraid I can't make a good decision right now.

Here is my dazzling randomly generated list

Infernando (Mr Mime.) G.
Anima V.
Kimmy S.
Dr. Proctor (Doccity doc of the pricky pricky proc)
Clara H.
Cherry P.
Halsey N.
Emmy A.
Caroline M.
Shepherd D.
Jeremiah W.

Caroline M. wrote:As far as lynches go, I am conflicted. I don't think Halsey should be lynched right now, I am certain he has more dazzling arguments to make, and I would like to give them some more time. But then we do need an alternative for the lynch, and the sheer ammount of posts here is honestly overwhelming me. I have also run out of time to reread so I'm afraid I can't make a good decision right now.

Rip I guess I have to dazzlingly take charge of our lynch then I was kinda hoping you would help me in a dazzling fashion but oh well.

Emmy A. wrote:

Caroline M. wrote:<snip>
"It all served town" while dazzling, is not all that matters. Scum can serve town too, yet they're still scum, they're just trying to dazzle us all to make sure we don't notice. And as much as this is high risk, it's also high reward. If it works, nobody will ever doubt you again. If it doesn't, well, too bad, but other methods don't work in long term.

But what incentive is there for Halsey, as scum, to call it a plan? If it's a hydra and the other Halsey has come online to see what his partner did, couldn't he just denounce his partner and start anew?

Denouncing his partner wont really put Halsey off the hook since it keeps the idea that Halsey could be scum where one of the hydras arent as good at dazzlingly hiding their role as the other hydra (if that makes sense). Instead making up this so called plan seems like a better idea as it will not only save his partner but also gain towncred.

Hello, I am here finally. Yes it was a little late but I say a little late is better than not appearing at all. I have read the whole thread so I am caught up with all the main points of discussion. However, you should note that since I did not participate in the conversation, my perspective may be slightly delayed. If you think I have taken your post out of context please do say so, especially since I may miss the minor details.

I will comment on the structure of the game. I definitely agree with the fruit chain night 1 as we have good activity so far. I also agree that we should not use the chain again night 2; it should be saved for another night. With that said, I have provided a randomized player list below:

Shepherd D.
Emmy A.
Caroline M.
Cherry P.
Jeremiah W.
Clara H.
Infernando G.
Halsey N.
Dr. Proctor
Anima V.
Kimmy S.

Since I regrettably have limited time again, I will post some few thoughts on the three players which I think was the most discussed about: Cherry, Halsey and Jeremiah. It's not gonna be too long, but it should capture what I have so far. I also think I will have more free time during the next day cycle. Stay tuned.

Pregame shit just refers to anything posted in pregame that's random and unrelated to the game. It's just not worth looking into more than a day 1 RV

I feel like people are misunderstanding my read on hasley, but w/e

Jeremiah, I suggested a Infernando lynch not when Hasley started to defend himself, but at the end of the post where I stated my read on Hasley

I need a good session to sit down and read everything. I'll probably make a large post during night unless school is busier than normal

As for my randomised list

Dr Procter
Infernando
Anima
Clara
Emmy
Jeremiah
Caroline
Kimmy
Cherry
Shepherd
Hasley

Anima V. wrote:?

I've been thinking about the dazzling significance of this post. Like why the dazzle would either scum!Anima or town!Anima just post a question mark and then just leave? We've seen the fact anima has come online quite a few times during the time she was inactive so its not like she's confused and is like "what just happened?" since it seems as if she was keeping up without actually posting. It could be that one anima was logging on without posting while the other anima didnt log on for a while, but it would make a lot more sense to tell us about it + produce a dazzling defense. The only dazzling explanation that seems to make a bit of sense to me is that a scum!Anima posted a question mark in the hope of inducing wifom. The problem is this wifom is still affecting me and I am still unsure on where to place my lynch. I thinking that since there are already like 3 lynches on Anima, I dont think my own lynch on her will be that useful since she's probs gonna get lynched via plur anyway. So perhaps I could lynch Shepherd as a way to pressure him to speak up day 2?

Posting fast from what stood out to me the most in my limited amount of time. I'll be back soon.

Cherry P. wrote:couple questions for halsey

you said the first four posts were an attempt to catch scum, stated what scum would do, stated what I would do (which was either not similar whatsoever/was the opposite, idr) and then said that what I did was similar to what scum would do. Were you just reading my posts poorly or was there another reason for this?

why did you dismiss the fruit passing strategy at the start? this was after the four posts which you said were your plan so don't try to lump it in there.

lame i had more but im forgetting
ill post em when i get em

I just want to cry a little at the moment. I already answered both of these like 3 or 4 times.

Also Caroline, I asked this questions 3 times.... You know the one with the question mark.... (Kimmy redirected it to you making it 4 times) (actually he asked a variation so I will ask mine again)

Caroline M. wrote:
You know, at first I was kind of wary of Halsey, they seemed kind of scummy to me. But after the explanation I have to wonder, perhaps one of them did the scummy thing and the other turned it into their great masterplan. This is also something we have to consider after all.

If this was a normal game I would be inclined to trust Halsey, but this is hydra. And one personality making themselves seem scummy, with the other covering it up, doesn't seem that impossible.

Kimmy: Assume this is the case. Would you, in this situation, believe that it's a town hydra with a one head messing up, or a scum hydra with one head good at covering up?

MY QUESTION: So am I less scummy because of this being hydra or more because of this being hydra?







Also
Caroline: Denouncing his partner wont really put Halsey off the hook since it keeps the idea that Halsey could be scum where one of the hydras arent as good at dazzlingly hiding their role as the other hydra (if that makes sense). Instead making up this so called plan seems like a better idea as it will not only save his partner but also gain towncred.

Was going to respond to your "why not claim my hydra did this" with pretty much this and something else. Ok, now from a 3rd point perspective. I obviously need to be alive to help town/scum depending on my alignment. Let's say I didn't plan this out and my hydra messed up, would claiming that even help me at all. I mean, I was lynched by Cherry due to that 4 post being filler thus scummy to begin with. I'm sure saying it was my hydra's fault would pretty much leave me in the scumradar since he pretty much fillered with no purpose. Of course like I said, this is supposing that I didn't plan this plan out from the beginning

The something else is the 3rd point perspective btw.