Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Azumi A. wrote:So for the thoughts, they're all about himashi. Surprising isn't it? *sarcasm* he is the most active person right now and he's got a lot of suspicions, it's kinda weird.
Being active and having a number of suspicions one greater than the size of the mafia is weird? I thought that just meant I was crudely forming my opinions of others at the beginning of the game. Sunreeser has been able to explain away the doubts I had, but you've not, Rossu and Daytona have yet to say much else so I don't know what else to think of them. See the underlined part beginning with "You do realize that..."

He's got a lot of suspicions and then says having few is scummy, but I'm actually one of the few people other than him who even have a suspicion in the first place, yet he only goes after me. Weird... And what makes it so scummy actually?
Your suspicion is on me, and that arose solely because I had a suspicion on you. That's OMGUSing, but subtly. And I said having NO suspicions is scummy--you're falling into a quasi-similar category; your only real suspicion is the person stirring up the pot against you.

I legit don't think there's lots of scummy people right now...
The only person you've suggested so far was me (SEE BELOW); although, I will give this to you, it's been FoSing, not direct accusation.

mostly as nobody has really talked yet... so how come himashi has 4 people he finds scummy, while 1 of them is legit for the reason of not talking iirc? Just so he can shove things off to others who might be troubling for him? I don't know. Only he knows, and only he can know for sure.
You do realize that those weren't actual scum call-outs, right? Are you suggesting that I really believed three out of those four people had to be scum, because of their first few posts in the game? Those were the people that I had the most reason to doubt at the time because of their actions or words; that doesn't mean I completely distrusted them. Notice how I only lynched you when you started getting riled-up about me accusing you. Sunreeser was able to allay our misunderstanding by explaining more fully her actions; you have not, by arousing accusations against your accuser without actually solving the core dispute.

Now don't think this is me saying he's scum, this is a thought I'm having, something weird about himashi. People often think that my arguments mean that I think someone is scum, and while I do believe himashi is the most scummy person atm(SEE ABOVE), that doesn't mean I believe he's scum immediatley, it's just weird.
You have a weird feeling about me? Well... That's also a mistake newcomer mafia make. The "Halftones of Suspicions" effect occurs when, while sharing suspicions, especially on their most antagonistic opponent, the player doesn’t directly say that “this player is definitely mafia for me”. But a player says: “I feel weird about this person, but I'm not sure, so that’s why I think he is in-between villy and mafia. The speech would make more sense if you say: “You are mafia, I suspect you!”. The motive of this play is that, once someone has accused you, you want to distance yourself from them, while possibly making them appear scummy at the same time. Suggesting they are sort-of villy may encourage them to turn down the heat on you, while suggesting they are sort-of mafia at the same time may help turn public sentiment against them.

Another thing that's just weird about himashi is how he's so quick to lynch. Like seriously? It's day 2 and you can't really know who is what unless you're mafia, meaning that you should be careful with your lynches as town imo,
Do you recommend we nl??? Would you be saying this if I'd lynched someone else? Do you think we should just wait around for the inactives to start throwing some more information out before we start scumhunting/looking for reactions? Speaking of which, reaction is the biggest reason why I'm lynching you.

not just because it helps the town but also because of the leaderboards, say I get lynched and flip town he loses points... that is if he's town. If he's not then the he'll gain points.
10/10 logic, proof almost

Dayton would get lynched by plurality if it wasn't for the lynch himashi placed... once again kinda weird though might be a coincidence.
Dayton must therefore be my scumpartner!

There were some other ideas I had about himashi but I forgot them
I know that feel, I give you my condolences. :/

and while this is scummy I do not believe himashi should be lynched, he is after all starting discussions etc, then again having me being lynched would be kinda annoying too as I seem to keep discussions alive very well...
Assume that you are town. Who's better to keep around, me, who's pushing, scumhunting, and looking for reactions, or you, who spends your time defending yourself and explaining precisely why you didn’t protect your biggest town read. And to think I used my protect on you last night in case the mafia targeted you while targeting the town read, smh... So, since you A) only contributed to the discussion D2 through your own defense and my degradation and B) convinced me through your words and actions that you are scum, me lynching you is a no-brainer.
So this isn’t exactly a great argument in your favor. I will hold you to this belief for future reference.

Himashi, even if you do think I'm mafia, lynching me right now doesn't help town all that much, as if I am mafia and I'm so noobish as you think I can give you information, if I'm not as noobish as you think your assumptions are wrong.
I’d like everybody to read this multiple times and make their own opinions. As for mine:
“Lynching me is bad because, even if I am Mafia, I’m not noobish enough to give you information!”
Well… If lynching me is bad, and lynching you is bad, and I am the only true scummy read you have, then you’ve really forced yourself into a corner, now have you? Do you recommend we nl???

Either way it's a bad idea to lynch me, as I'm not mafia but town,
You wasted your time and words typing that sentence.

and we as town need discussions, and there's not an awful lot of people who are willing to discuss right now.
I think this is a great discussion we have going on right now here; if you want to start a new one, have at it.

You stated before that lurking works, well why don't we look at the lurkers then? Instead of looking at people who are trying to help town.
I have more definitive evidence on you right now than I have the lurkers, they can wait for a day. And you’re not trying to help my town, you’re trying to save your skin.

And yes, I do change opinion a lot as my scumradar works really weird and sometimes I work with logic and deduction and sometimes I work with my scumradar. Logic usually saves me and my scumradar usually finds the scum.
Your scumdar seems to be broken right now though if I’m the only one you have And your ‘logic’ about not saving her didn’t really save Willhiema, now did it? Unless, of course, it wasn’t logic that drove you to not protect her, it was ambition that drove you to claim to protect her. Pick your poison: mafia or bad-logic-town. Although I think if you were bad-logic-town you’d have given up by now like Koji did.

And yes I do realize what I just said is scummy as hell, but I do feel we shouldn't fly at eachothers necks here, as there's other people who are doing less for town, and we don't want to be that one dead game.
[u]I didn’t think that what you said was all THAT scummy, perhaps you were paranoid when writing that part? And “flying at eachothers’ necks” = negative connotation for scumhunting. And I think one of those people doing ‘less for town’ is you. As I said, you’re not trying to help the town, you’re trying to save your skin.

Himashi G. wrote:Okay, I understand now where sunreeser was coming from. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
The below counter-rant is not addressed to Azumi, but rather to people who have a town read on her.

Azumi A. wrote:So for the thoughts, they're all about himashi. Surprising isn't it? *sarcasm* he is the most active person right now and he's got a lot of suspicions, it's kinda weird.
Being active and having a number of suspicions one greater than the size of the mafia is weird? I thought that just meant I was crudely forming my opinions of others at the beginning of the game. Sunreeser has been able to explain away the doubts I had, but you've not, Rossu and Daytona have yet to say much else so I don't know what else to think of them. See the underlined part beginning with "You do realize that..."

yeah I know it were suspicions and not that people would surely be scum, when posting that I wasn't thinking about it too much.

He's got a lot of suspicions and then says having few is scummy, but I'm actually one of the few people other than him who even have a suspicion in the first place, yet he only goes after me. Weird... And what makes it so scummy actually?
Your suspicion is on me, and that arose solely because I had a suspicion on you. That's OMGUSing, but subtly. And I said having NO suspicions is scummy--you're falling into a quasi-similar category; your only real suspicion is the person stirring up the pot against you.

err... if you'd have been going for someone else in the way you went for me i would have reacted exactly the same except for things only that person can explain. This is just one of your FALSE assumptions.

I legit don't think there's lots of scummy people right now...
The only person you've suggested so far was me (SEE BELOW); although, I will give this to you, it's been FoSing, not direct accusation.

mostly as nobody has really talked yet... so how come himashi has 4 people he finds scummy, while 1 of them is legit for the reason of not talking iirc? Just so he can shove things off to others who might be troubling for him? I don't know. Only he knows, and only he can know for sure.
You do realize that those weren't actual scum call-outs, right? Are you suggesting that I really believed three out of those four people had to be scum, because of their first few posts in the game? Those were the people that I had the most reason to doubt at the time because of their actions or words; that doesn't mean I completely distrusted them. Notice how I only lynched you when you started getting riled-up about me accusing you. Sunreeser was able to allay our misunderstanding by explaining more fully her actions; you have not, by arousing accusations against your accuser without actually solving the core dispute.

if that's what you want to believe... but I'm pretty sure I tried explaining it. You just didn't notice because you were too caught up trying to find ways in which I would be scummy, for yourself or for others. Now don't think this is me saying he's scum, this is a thought I'm having, something weird about himashi. People often think that my arguments mean that I think someone is scum, and while I do believe himashi is the most scummy person atm(SEE ABOVE), that doesn't mean I believe he's scum immediatley, it's just weird.
You have a weird feeling about me? Well... That's also a mistake newcomer mafia make. The "Halftones of Suspicions" effect occurs when, while sharing suspicions, especially on their most antagonistic opponent, the player doesn’t directly say that “this player is definitely mafia for me”. But a player says: “I feel weird about this person, but I'm not sure, so that’s why I think he is in-between villy and mafia. The speech would make more sense if you say: “You are mafia, I suspect you!”. The motive of this play is that, once someone has accused you, you want to distance yourself from them, while possibly making them appear scummy at the same time. Suggesting they are sort-of villy may encourage them to turn down the heat on you, while suggesting they are sort-of mafia at the same time may help turn public sentiment against them.

so wait... it would have been better to say ibelieve you're mafia? That's kinda weird and it's exactly what you're doing. And I've said this before, I'm not a newcomer. there are 3 regions for me, mafia, suspicious and town. Currently you're in suspicious.  

Another thing that's just weird about himashi is how he's so quick to lynch. Like seriously? It's day 2 and you can't really know who is what unless you're mafia, meaning that you should be careful with your lynches as town imo,
Do you recommend we nl??? Would you be saying this if I'd lynched someone else? Do you think we should just wait around for the inactives to start throwing some more information out before we start scumhunting/looking for reactions? Speaking of which, reaction is the biggest reason why I'm lynching you.

maybe i wouldn't have, but i would still notice it.

not just because it helps the town but also because of the leaderboards, say I get lynched and flip town he loses points... that is if he's town. If he's not then the he'll gain points.
10/10 logic, proof almost it's exactly what happened game 12

Dayton would get lynched by plurality if it wasn't for the lynch himashi placed... once again kinda weird though might be a coincidence.
Dayton must therefore be my scumpartner!
i said coincidence and you ignored it.
There were some other ideas I had about himashi but I forgot them
I know that feel, I give you my condolences. :/

and while this is scummy I do not believe himashi should be lynched, he is after all starting discussions etc, then again having me being lynched would be kinda annoying too as I seem to keep discussions alive very well...
Assume that you are town. Who's better to keep around, me, who's pushing, scumhunting, and looking for reactions, or you, who spends your time defending yourself and explaining precisely why you didn’t protect your biggest town read. And to think I used my protect on you last night in case the mafia targeted you while targeting the town read, smh... So, since you A) only contributed to the discussion D2 through your own defense and my degradation and B) convinced me through your words and actions that you are scum, me lynching you is a no-brainer.
So this isn’t exactly a great argument in your favor. I will hold you to this belief for future reference.sooo... there will be a future for me? And legit what discussion was there to contribute to? also protecting me was stupid as hell. This is why i couldn't protect willhiema, because people would be stupid and protect others.

Himashi, even if you do think I'm mafia, lynching me right now doesn't help town all that much, as if I am mafia and I'm so noobish as you think I can give you information, if I'm not as noobish as you think your assumptions are wrong.
I’d like everybody to read this multiple times and make their own opinions. As for mine:
“Lynching me is bad because, even if I am Mafia, I’m not noobish enough to give you information!”
Well… If lynching me is bad, and lynching you is bad, and I am the only true scummy read you have, then you’ve really forced yourself into a corner, now have you? Do you recommend we nl???

i think you kind of misunderstood that one, what i meant was that if my actions make me mafia i must be a newcomer, as a lot of your arguments require me to be a newcomer. if i really am mafia according to those arguments you can get information. If I'm not then that makes your reasoning incomplete.  
either way it's a bad idea to lynch me, as I'm not mafia but town,
You wasted your time and words typing that sentence.

and we as town need discussions, and there's not an awful lot of people who are willing to discuss right now.
I think this is a great discussion we have going on right now here; if you want to start a new one, have at it.

You stated before that lurking works, well why don't we look at the lurkers then? Instead of looking at people who are trying to help town.
I have more definitive evidence on you right now than I have the lurkers, they can wait for a day. And you’re not trying to help my town, you’re trying to save your skin.

meanwhile i am saying what my thoughts are to help town, if i do get lynched because of you and your weird reasoning that doesn't really work for psanon I don't want the town to not know my thoughts.  
and yes, I do change opinion a lot as my scumradar works really weird and sometimes I work with logic and deduction and sometimes I work with my scumradar. Logic usually saves me and my scumradar usually finds the scum.
Your scumdar seems to be broken right now though if I’m the only one you have And your ‘logic’ about not saving her didn’t really save Willhiema, now did it? Unless, of course, it wasn’t logic that drove you to not protect her, it was ambition that drove you to claim to protect her. Pick your poison: mafia or bad-logic-town. Although I think if you were bad-logic-town you’d have given up by now like Koji did.

i pick stubborn townie that is going for the scumradar atm, meaning I'm vague as hell about everything.

And yes I do realize what I just said is scummy as hell, but I do feel we shouldn't fly at eachothers necks here, as there's other people who are doing less for town, and we don't want to be that one dead game.
[u]I didn’t think that what you said was all THAT scummy, perhaps you were paranoid when writing that part? And “flying at eachothers’ necks” = negative connotation for scumhunting. And I think one of those people doing ‘less for town’ is you. As I said, you’re not trying to help the town, you’re trying to save your skin. well if someone else would say what i said about lynching me being a bad idea i would find it scummy. also, I'm never paranoid.

I will be very surprised and/or dismayed if there turn out to be more than two other people who still support Azumi after this quote from her.

Himashi G. wrote:I saw Azumi A. online at 10:15-30 PM GMT. He was gone by 10:35. He didn't reply to me.

Azumi A. wrote:With deadline approaching I am going to cast my vote.

lynch toby

Now let me explain this, I'm on phone so can't really pull up the quotes but I've got a good idea of what Toby said as I just read through it. So Toby says that he doesn't believe koji is scum... but does he do something about it? Lynch someone who is more likely to be scum? No. Kinda weird but there are more people who did that. The difference is that they actually posted more, toby has been lurking which bothers me. we've got a big discussion that goes on for days IRL and toby only says 1 thing about it, of course there are others who did the same but in combination with the lurking it's as if he's trying to get the attention away from himself, saying pretty general things that several people are thinking, making sure he gets a post occasionally to not be seen as an inactive/lurker possibly waiting for an opportunity to make it seem like he had just been busy so he can pick up the conversation from there while it's easy to sound as town and then move on like that. Possibly. I could very well be wrong but you can hardly blame me for believing he's a better option than me.