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Ed S. wrote:

ajhockeystar wrote:#31: chatter seel- 11 points
#38: Fenrir Aesir- 8 points

This is not okay.

WELL MAYBE IF YOU WEREN'T A LITTLE PIECE OF S- yeah idk whats going on here you deserve a lot more

Game 31: Separated Scum

gg mona also rip me if i kept my lynch on rhonda day 1 i coulda got 3 points in total ;~;

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Yuzo K. wrote:#hirokididnothingwrong

if Lila didn't have complete garbage shots I feel like town would have won. Not even that she shot town but that she shot a few of the least scummy town

Meanwhile in our game....

Game 31: Separated Scum

Ed S. wrote:Also, I can publicly cry about AJ tormenting me with flips.   See the multiple spoilers on the Kodama flip and the (appreciated but) many, many HYPES on the Wilkinson flip. There was also a moment at the very start of Day 3 where he had something like:

"The death of last night was:

Magnus D. the Vanilla Townie
and
Ed S. the Compulsive Vigilante

This means:
(Spoiler) Just trolling :^ (Spoiler)"

TL;DR AJ made me cry with these reveals.

Lol rekt, i thought my death flip was a troll too except it turned out it wasnt

TLDR: You made me cry with that reveal.

Btw i just noticed roderick was the only guy who knew the miller was dead xD

Game 31: Separated Scum

Yeah mona this is exactly why playing as mafia is so much easier than town imo coz you can just embody the persona of town and pretty much forget about your scummy needs so that you can avoid falling into the generic scum traps. That way any sort of question can be explained from a townie perspective. In fact it's even better since scum wouldnt be as affected by wifom and so they dont get shot by paranoid vigs! (Sorry ed i am still a bit salty xD)

I feel like this game had a great day 1 despite mr cheeves flipping town, but its day 2 really hurt because not only magnus was shot simply because he didnt talk as much he used to, pretty much only me and ed were talking about something that didnt benefit in the end since roderick was subbed. The momentum from day 1 went to a standstill which produced a domino effect that lead to a difficult day 3.

Game 31: Separated Scum

I mean ed is lucky that its been over a week since he shot me so i am not gonna slaughter him, plus he already knows he's terribad xD. Anyway i definitely think i could have played the end of day 3 better but i was rushed and really confused whether or not rhonda or kodama was the scum. I'll explain what i was thinking pretty much throughout day 3 (but the scumteams were more near the end).

I thought of a conjecture after magnus was shot and peoples comments on it, that i was fairly sure is true. This being that out of Ed and Mona, one of them is the vig and the other is scum. Ofc i wasnt sure which but defo near the start of day 3 i was leaning to mona scum and ed vig. Howevee as day 3 was playing out, i became more and more torn between whether rhonda and kodama is scum. I knew that one of them was scum and that if kodama is scum, then ed and wilkinson are his partners and mona was the vig. On the other hand if rhonda is scum, then mona and roderick are her partners with ed being the vig. This was essentially the reason why i found it extremely hard to make a readlist, however i wasnt sure if at the time, saying all of this was a good idea. But yeah since i saw rhonda flip scum, i was extremely ready to shit on mona and roderick, which is why I was so pissed when ed shot me. But it didnt matter anyway since mona also shot me lol.

A few more points to say, i was really hoping that ed would continue his course of "shoot the townie" and shoot mona but the one time he decided not to, the townier person was the scum . I misworded my final post in which i meant to say that roderick isnt as scum [as kodama and rhonda] rather than roderick isnt scum lol, sorry for the misunderstanding but it didnt matter in the end. Finally, congratz to mona for a very smooth win overall well played!!!

Game 31: Separated Scum

I had a reasoning and everything pre-typed and ready to roll but ¡NOPE!. Apparently this ¡PRO AF VIG! thinks i deserve to get shot for one post that could be taken as scummy without even a chance to explain despite helping town scumhunt as much as i could beforehand. You know i actually thought this was gonna be an alright town this time, but they never cease amaze me how stupid they can be. First magnus and now me.... welp gl town i guess!!!

Game 31: Separated Scum

Rip this is gonna have to be my last post and i aint got much time to write it but basically i feel its odd that rhonda hasnt decided to come online despite being pressured and i would have thought that a scum would want to defend themself rather than just not doing anything since from what i've seen from rhonda she would know full well that not posting just makes it worse. This contrasts Kodama using data and hotspot and stuff to get his posts out which could either be dedication or just trying to not be lynched for that day. I really dont know but i think i am gonna lynch kodama coz i feel as though he's more likely to be maf due to reasons i've already said and just gut really. Also i dont think roderick is scum.

ul rod, lynch kodama

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Wilkinson A. wrote:My being quick to lynch was me putting a vote on one guy, after already stating we should start considering our lynch targets. Unless this game is planning to start consolidating at 2 hours to DL, I don't think that planning for the lynch is wrong.

Wagon was the wrong choice of words on my part, I mean the support a lynch has

Ed S. is nice with his post activity and high quality of post content. I'm confident he's Town here.

Maria is also quite Towny, slightly less than Ed but still a solid TR

Mona had quite a few suspicious posts, which is why I considered voting them, and they aren't exactly being the most active gamesolver.

Similar to above, Roderick has the same problems,

And Rhonda refuses to come on, which is worse than me.

Yeah but i was saying that you said "i'll post my reads and decide who to vote" or something like that even tho you voted already. Also you really didnt improve on your initial post of "reads", you effectively just town/scumread everyone based on activity despite being nearly 3 whole days now.

Game 31: Separated Scum

Maria S. wrote:Also mona u say you think both kodama and rhonda are both scum, so then why are you so torn? Surely in your perspective you have absolutely no worries in lynching either one?

I should probably make my point clearer here, you're absolutely right that hammering right now is silly coz you just cut precious discussion time. You already have your lynch on kodama and you say you're torn between kodama and rhonda yet you know you cant lynch rhonda anyway (you can, just not a good idea). So why the need to say you're torn between the two? Its a fair assumption that you arent changing your kodama lynch and you even said that both are scum in your eyes so in your perspective you're fine with either one getting lynched. It feels as though you said it in order to perhaps make us believe you arent buddying with rhonda. I mean it's fine to give reasons as to why you think both are scum which i thought is great but its the opening bit that i am not liking.

¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡

Ed: it's true you didnt have to, but doing so would make it more seemless imo, and perhaps you saying so would indicate that you have thought of this and decided to play around it. Although that just means we're diving into depth of wifom where we can never prove which is the right case.

It's a fairly weak reason coz i cant prove the intention and it might just be coincidental that kodama had to be the one that delivered. But idk like i said i just cant help but feel that some sort of scheme is going on. Also the roderick part was from a scum!Ed perspective.

Game 31: Separated Scum

Also mona u say you think both kodama and rhonda are both scum, so then why are you so torn? Surely in your perspective you have absolutely no worries in lynching either one?

Game 31: Separated Scum

I am struggling to get what you mean by "If I was scum inspecting Kodama, I wouldn't need to bring that up to point out what I did."

I forgot to bring up why i felt it was schemed. You said in one of ur posts "i need another lynch on rhonda" with the reason of "she can easily get out of plurality" and ofc Kodama, ¡Had to be Kodama!, that executed this. (Yeah i am enjoying using ¡ now lol, hold Alt Gr and then the exclamation mark). Now you say he lynched his highest scumread which seems to be true but tbh you can easily engineer a readlist by cherrypicking stuff that has already been said plus add a little bit on maybe to make it look original, which is what i kinda feel when reading kodama's reads. But i also feel that when reading rhonda's reads too arrrgh!!! But yeah then Wilkinson just wagonned outta nowhere and i think what roderick meant is that your reaction was less aggressive or pushy than against say, idk, rhonda or anyone else you find thats scummy. Then you decided to announce the fact rhonda is on L-1 although this point is flawed coz there isnt really anyone to announce to, unless you were hoping roderick was scum and wilkinson/kodama genuinely agreed with you. Idk tho it seems like a stretch to me but i cant help feeling like i am being played like a fiddle.

Game 31: Separated Scum

Ed S. wrote:Wilkinson put his vote on Rhonda, not Kodama.

Did you say Kodama had a "sense of genuinty" Day Two? I'll read back, but if so I either missed it or it didn't stand out to me as much at the time.

Yeah i meant rhonda lol, its just i was thinking about kodama while writing that part.

Ed S. wrote:Okay, I see what Maria is referring to now. That I didn't respond to the "genuinity" comment until Day Three. I wasn't really questioning why you felt that Kodama's posts were genuine so much as I wanted to see if I could find this for myself. As I've mentioned before, I'm not the best with tone-reading.

Yeah i wasnt saying u were questioning me, its just that you being an observant guy and started analysing how mona said "seemed" instead of "seems" makes all the difference, you didnt decide to have a ¡Burst of curiosity! and see for youself back in day 2 the moment you read it and the day was pretty stale anyway. Instead you decided to do it on day 3 which could suggest that you wanted to smoothly go from a scum read in day 2 to a town read in day 3 after inspecting him overnight.

(Btw mona ur comment about english not being first language just destroyed ur hopes of getting least guessed points rip). Also i feel like this day has really separated the player list into team kodama and team rhonda, although its largely because rhonda reiterated a fair amount of mona's reads while Kodama did the same but with Ed's reads. But because of this the "teams" so to speak will have suspicion put on them/taken off them depending on who gets lynched and flips scum. Ofc i know theres the whole inspection topic but it doesnt change the fact suspicion can drastically change.

Game 31: Separated Scum

Wilkinson A. wrote:I might need to go in a while, but I'll be back in a couple of hours to provide my reads and put my vote on someone.

Errr but you already put ur vote on Kodama? Also that lynch is ridiculously hasty, you just went "alright its lylo lets lynch" and proceeded to put a 3rd vote on rhonda when you also said "i'll be back in a couple of hours to post my reads" which obviously means you're gonna think about what everyone has done than could be scum or town to come to a more logical conclusion. Now any sort of player that cares about who's getting lynched will lynch perhaps after they've to the conclusion and not because "it's lylo, we gotta lynch and rhonda wagon seems least iffy" or whatever.

Honestly Rhonda deciding not to post when she went online is just making it worse for herself, idk what she's thinking. I am starting to find a lot of things strange, eg why do the lynches on rhonda feel schemed, why did ed decide to look at why i thought kodama had a "sense of genuinty" when i said it middle-ish of day 2 and he had a lot of time to do it then? Perhaps he investigated kodama night 2 and decided to do it to smoothly transition his scum read on kodama to a town read? Idk but i'll be back in 2-3 hours where i'll think i have more time to think this through.

Game 31: Separated Scum

Its funny i was about to make the post regarding the same point about mona. But i stopped myself coz i think i realised what she meant. When you said "mona is lynching kodama and says she may change based on what he does yet shes aware that he probs wont defend himself", she said that pressure may still come into effect due to him perhaps reading the thread without logging in, and therefore he may come on and defend himself which could change mona's lynch. Which is why she says "she may change the lynch". However the goal that mona's imposing seems to be getting kodama lynched out of the game rather than for pressure

Game 31: Separated Scum

Ed S. wrote:I don't have a ton of time right now, but I should be able to respond to more later.

I can say right now that much like what I said to Mona, I don't think the lynch puts very much pressure on Roderick due to it not placing plurality on him. At the moment, I am not willing to remove my lynch from Rhonda for the purpose of pressuring Roderick.

I never said you had to also pressure roderick too, and i disagree that a player can only be pressured by putting them in plurality. They may have the most pressure compared to others, but all I had to do was give a good reason and lynch to give him the message that what he did was scummy enough to deserve a lynch and thats all the pressure it takes in my opinion. Heck for some people (usually the more active ones like me and you) a lynch isnt even required unless its very scummy and you're almost certain he's scum.

Game 31: Separated Scum

Roderick S. wrote:Roderick you say you've read the thread yet you decide to give us your sagely advice that we should look at behavioural changes when Mona and others have already gone and compared all the changes in reads between day 1, 2 and 3? I am sure you've also seen the countless number of times where people have asked for a readlist from you seeing as how you claim to have read the thread, yet you dont decide to do one? I mean i understand that you may not be able to explain what the previous roderick was thinking but not bothering to make a readlist after 2 (and a quarter) days of content and not say anything useful or new on top of that is unacceptable.

UL mona Lynch Roderick

Well Yes im Just settling in to the game you expecting too much after i just came to the game im not a person who can sub into a game and post a fullblone reads list. i would rather Not be readed as because of the old roderick but as a new person if only i wasnt a sub i would be able to play better. you may see this as a excuse but you cant just read someone as mafia i have not bothered to make a reads list as i just subed in, its not like im refusing to make one.[/quote]

I said readlist there as an example but it did also says "anything new and useful" which means in that first post you could have said anything that's useful and hasnt been said before which you would know if your claim that you read the whole thread is true. Of course your first post had nothing of the sort and so I am not removing my lynch until i am convinced that you wanting to be more in the discussion is true.

Ed S. wrote:Somewhat motivated by boredom, I have decided to clarify my question to Maria.

In the post where you lynch Mona, you don't address her at all. My assumption is thus that your lynch is intended to pressure her into giving a readlist (which by the way she and Rhonda have now both done and I'd like to see your opinions on their reads). Mona has posts between your lynch and unlynch and you do discuss with her, but her readlist doesn't come until after you've unlynched. Mona even acknowledges that her passiveness is a valid reason to lynch her.

You go on to lynch Roderick based on the fact that his first couple of posts add nothing to the game and restate things that have been brought up earlier on the page. While this is scummy and fairly annoying, I don't see how it merited dropping the pressure on Mona before she'd made her readlist, or how it instantly made him the scummiest player on your opinion. For that matter, I don't see why you dropped the pressure on Mona regardless of what you did with your lynch after (as you really haven't acknowledged her much since).

I dont always lynch the person who i believe is the scummiest until at the end of the day, i'd much rather lynch someone who has no lynches or doesnt have many yet and has done something scummy in order to pressure and decide whether they are indeed less scummy than the scummiest person in my mind. For example day 1 i lynched mr cheeves because i thought he was scummiest but then i lynched rhonda because i wanted to pressure her to talk since he came on but said nothing despite me still believing mr cheeves was scummiest. In this case I lynched Mona for the pressure but at the time i didnt find mona to be the scummiest person (which i thought was fairly clear from my end of day 2 post) but I didnt lynch rhonda coz she said she was gonna post a readlist on that day. Now i didnt necessarily pressure her for the readlist, i just pressured her to make more of an effort to scumhunt which was my main problem in day 2. She did exactly that (even though it was after quite a bit of pressure) and from which she concluded that kodama had the most suspicious change of behaviour. Her posts mostly made logical sense and i thought she wasnt as scummy anymore. Therefore when I saw roderick posted his first post as a sub, i decided that roderick was worth my lynch more than mona. I feel like you made this post with the misconception that I value a readlist more than anything else, like I said about rhonda, you can dish out as many readlists as you like but if there isnt any real effort in pushing/scumhunting and you're just summarising what has basically been said then it means nothing.

About mona's and rhonda's readlists, I didnt have much to say that hasnt already been said by you and the only thing i added about rhonda's readlist was the suspicious lynching quartet in which i explained why its only suspicious when you remove the context from the equation. In addition to what i've said before about rhonda, my problem isnt with her readlist, but with her attitiude. Kodama, although i've pointed out flaws where he attempted to bend a few facts to try and turn mona's argument against her, it's fairly clear (as you said) that he is trying to press and scumhunt without the idea of "ed and maria breaking all the facts apart and analysing which i simply cant match". It's not about how good you are at analysing but rather how keen and determined are you at finding scum, which in turn allows you to press on things that others perhaps may have not seen. However Rhonda is using this attitude as an excuse to keep going town mediator. Now she did start analysing people's way of analysis but she never really came to any sort of conclusion and just said "hey, this is the kind of stuff i like to do" almost as if she tried to show us that she's doing something when in reality nothing she did is aiding the progress of finding scum. Having said that, Kodama promised to post a readlist " in the morning" at around this time yesterday (which means i can assume now is night time for him) therefore in the morning suggests approx 12 hours ago which hasnt happened yet. Rhonda has been on and off again last night without saying anything which again is pretty strange.

But yeah if you're interested in who I currently believe is the scummiest i would say rhonda however seeing as how its basically lylo i think its important to not concentrate on one person seeing as how you are already lynching rhonda. It may be that due to the pressuring on other people, others may appear scummier overtime which then allows me to get a more solid idea on the list that you asked me about previously.

Game 31: Separated Scum

Ed S. wrote:Mona:

This was the extent of Maria's pressure on Rhonda at the time you made your post:

It's possible that Kodama was seeing the thread and not logging in and commenting on it, yes. My point is that we knew this to be the case, for Rhonda, who didn't actually have that much pressure at the time of your post. There was my vote on her and only one comment from Maria:

Maria S. wrote:Whats up with Rhonda? She came on after ed lynched her yet she still didnt post anything. She even said that the readlist was "by the latest" coming out today! Mona also promised that she was gonna make a readlist today too.

I admit that Rhonda did have plur from my vote on her, but placing a vote on Kodama did little to pressure him because even if I unvoted Rhonda, Maria's vote for Roderick would still have precedence.

Roderick and Rhonda, by the way, have once again been online without responding to anything. Wilkinson hasn't and he may just have a cursed account.

Regardless of what mona was referring to, the stuff i said about rhonda at the end of day 2 still applies even if it was in the previous day. Also Wilkinson has been online after he was subbed in "Yesterday at 12:01 am" which would mean he would have seen all the posts up to my post which said:

Maria S. wrote:Err it should say "Ed, you say you dont want to continue the day treating a fake claimer as a confo town". Also in the first paragraph, I think it would have been better to include some more punctuation to make it easier to understand.

Therefore Wilkinson isnt off the hook either.

Game 31: Separated Scum

Ed S. wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing Kodama's reads when he is next online. I'd be interested in seeing Maria's current list as well as her thoughts on the Mona/Rhonda scumteam I proposed.

I'll post my list when I have a more solid idea on the order which for me should come clear as this day progresses. In terms of your scumteam proposal i dont have too much to say except for the fact that I dont really agree that mona going back to day 1 to give a reason against kodama means mona is buddying rhonda since there's nothing wrong with using info from any day to form a read as long as it's valid.

Game 31: Separated Scum

Mona L. wrote:

Thank you for explaining your lynch, though I would have answered regardless, and suggesting that the vig should kill me is kind of extreme if you want an explanation, if the vig had listened you wouldn't have gotten one.

I suggested Rhonda for the vig kill, I just said that it makes sense (at least more sense than a magnus shot) if the vig chose to shoot you. I even said in the same post that "I want to see a lot more effort coming from Mona if we ever get past day 2"

Rhonda R. wrote:

Maria S. wrote:Rhonda is also a person imo that hasnt really been pushing. Giving a readlist and contributing doesnt mean pushing, in fact quite a few of her posts is her clarifying what other people mean which is effectively the opposite of pushing.

This post kind of threw me off the first time I read it.  The issue with me not pushing has been brought upon entirely by myself.  The main reason why I didn't push anyone once I started to post was that I honestly caught up to the point of being able to start questioning people about things that were happening at that point.  My inactive spell recently has rendered me unable to push anyone since I've become sort of unwilling to delve into how everyone else has played this game so far.  Of the people I've at least taken a deeper look at, there are two that stand out based on how they seem to make their reads: Kodama and Ed.

From what I know from playing these forum mafia games, there are pretty much two main ways to analyse how someone has played (aside from activity which can be controversial).  People generally will analyse either statements or interactions.  I see Kodama as a very statement oriented reader, which I think comes from reading through everyone's posts individually as opposed to rereading that part of the game.  He tends to summarize what everyone has said throughout the game and define them as either townie or scummy based on how he reads the information presented to him.

Ed strikes me as someone who reads into interactions.  He likes to look at the game as a whole, and try to tell who has said what to who, and try to determine whether that makes people seem townie or scummy as a result.  This method tends to lead to theorizing about the importance of certain interactions compared to others and relies on a lot of theorizing, and it is also very time consuming in my experience.  I feel that this is likely why I don't have the ambition to go through such a process, since Ed has looked into most of this game's crucial interactions already.  

I know this isn't a normal or complete readlist, but these are the types of analyses that I like to make when looking at the game, as opposed to hunkering down in front of my computer for hours and poring through every line of every post to try to find a shred of evidence against x or y person.

I mean I am not denying that your analysis is sound, but I struggle to see your point. What does this analysis achieve?

Kodama N. wrote:

Mona L. wrote:Kodama: As we've all been looking back at his posts, I decided to do so again. Besides things we've brought up recently, he also starts with a readslist with mostly leaning town and neutral. There are two reads who are leaning scum. This in itself is not scummy at all, what is scummy, requires some context. Someone pointed this out and said it was scummy, Kodama then talked about how it was simply his playstyle. The next post after that, one IRL day later, he has a new readslist. This time with lots of leaning scum/scum. In fact, 50% of his reads are suddenly leaning scum/scum. Which seems to support the idea of him changing his reads to blend in. He does give an explanation later, but I still find it strange to see such a huge flip. He also has reads which are basically just the general reads of town. He also has not posted or been online in 5 days. So while all of the points before point to him being scum, he also isn't likely to defend himself. heavily leaning scum.”

What made you shift from Leaning town in your first read list to “heavily” leaning scum now? You literally had not read and or mentioned me in many of your posts at all, so how could you get to a conclusion of “heavily leaning scum” so quickly? Is it because “As we’ve all been looking back at his posts”, meaning you want to ‘blend in’ and go with the majority? (or you thinking it’s the majority). If you said I’ve made an explanation, and you’ve still found my “shift” scummy, then are you implying that you didn’t read my explanation? Elaborate on my explanation being “strange”. I wasn’t really trying to “blend in”, since I had my own reads/reasonings and brought some points up that no one had before, so please explain how I was trying to “blend in”. I do admit that I was trying to blend in by lynching Mr. Cheeves in my first post, but then I actually got my head in the game and started doing things productive. Also, are you saying that you’re lynching me since I’m not likely to defend myself? Well, huh here I am defending myself. I would like to see you respond to this defense.

The key thing here thats different in her situation is the fact you werent widely or highly regarded as scum and so its fairly clear that she wasnt blending in when she said you were heavily leaning scum. Rhonda on the other hand could be shown as blending in. Mona was also the first one iirc to actually point out your sudden change on your read on honcho which shows that she effectively started the "majority" rather than blending in. Speaking of which, you say that you saw how mr honcho wanted to go with majority and not form his own opinions which made you find him scummy. But you also said that you didnt read the wall posts the first time which means that in regards to Mr Honcho, the information you had before your first readlist and after your first readlist would have been exactly the same. Yet you went from "the topic was quite necessary to be brought up - leaning town" to "the only thing he ever brought up was the vig hardclaiming - scum" as if to say you gave him a lengthy amount of time to bring up another topic. But evidently the second readlist was only after one day of the first. If you truly saw the scumminess in his posts yourself and not because you read other (wall) posts and decided to form a spin-off opinion from it, you would have definitely seen it the first time. However this is not the case which shows a blatant attempt in blending in after reading the (wall) posts and seeing that your initial opinion on mr honcho wasnt shared with anyone else. I appreciate your honesty with regards to blending in with the mr cheeves lynch, but that begs the question, why wasnt your head in the game in the first place and had to be pressured to do so?

Rhonda R. wrote:

Ed:  I pick up a town leader vibe from Ed. Sure, there's the massive post count, and the fact that he has been mostly leading the discussion throughout the game, but I'm looking deeper than that.  Over the first two days, both of his end of day lynch targets have been lynched (as a matter of fact, both lynchees were lynched by Ed/Maria/Kodama/Magnus).  I have this insecurity about when I see someone's playstyle as very townie, as it almost seems like they're too perfect of a player to truly be a town playing that well.  This is especially true when town members continue to be lynched.  After noticing the fact about the two lynches being performed by the same 4 people, that in addition to the other concerns I have with town leaders (he led the last two lynches at the very least), this raises some serious suspicions towards Ed and the others.  Of course, all of this is being said without taking into consideration Ed's analyses and reads, but I still feel uncomfortable knowing that the last two lynches have been determined by the same 4 people, even though one of them did die a townie.  

In regards to the same 4 people lynching both days, on its own it looks suspicious. However if we bring in context it doesnt seem that suspicious. Early day 1 the reasoning for lynching Mr Cheeves was established and ed and magnus lynched him straight away while I lynched you because I wanted to pressure you to talk despite also believing that mr cheeves was the scummiest. Kodama admitted that he was trying to blend in. I then went back to lynching mr cheeves after successfully getting you to talk. Now only me and ed were active throughout day 2 and we made the decision to lynch mr honcho based on what he said when he finally posted. Kodama and magnus lynched mr honcho at the very start and just dropped off the face of the earth, magnus flipped town and Kodama says he was busy with IRL stuff so i guess we cant read too much into it. However when we look at the other players, no one else was even active and those who did post (like you and mona) didnt even lynch anyway (also applies for day 1). So it seems normal that those who are being lynched are being lynched by the same 4 people when bringing context into account.

Game 31: Separated Scum

Ed i think the "following the clear" issue can simply be solved by making everyone aware that a claimed vig doesnt mean confo-vig. I think the long term effect of losing our vig (if we lose the 50/50) or our vig being roleblocked constantly (if we win the 50/50) is worse than people following the clear. That being said, everyone except wilkinson has posted and no one decided to claim vig which means the CV probably shot magnus. I honestly dont think wilkinson is the vig either.

Whats up with Rhonda? She came on after ed lynched her yet she still didnt post anything. She even said that the readlist was "by the latest" coming out today! Mona also promised that she was gonna make a readlist today too.

Roderick you say you've read the thread yet you decide to give us your sagely advice that we should look at behavioural changes when Mona and others have already gone and compared all the changes in reads between day 1, 2 and 3? I am sure you've also seen the countless number of times where people have asked for a readlist from you seeing as how you claim to have read the thread, yet you dont decide to do one? I mean i understand that you may not be able to explain what the previous roderick was thinking but not bothering to make a readlist after 2 (and a quarter) days of content and not say anything useful or new on top of that is unacceptable.

UL mona Lynch Roderick

Game 31: Separated Scum

Err it should say "Ed, you say you dont want to continue the day treating a fake claimer as a confo town". Also in the first paragraph, I think it would have been better to include some more punctuation to make it easier to understand.

Game 31: Separated Scum

Lets put tiredness aside because it's not something that can be proven or disproven, you said that the strategy that wouldnt be useful after day 1 is the "push for a mediocre not so towny but no so scummy lynch" since you correctly said that scum would have already inspected and most likely found a safe push during night 1. However you said that it's more useful to see who's tunneling for day 2 and having 2 safe targets doesn't mean they'll stop tunneling, but perhaps the tunnel will be slightly broader since they'll still want either one or the other lynched. Perhaps in day 4 this strat would be irrelevant. However it's day 3 and it's still a relevant way of finding scum before you said it.

Yeah I may have gone slightly auto-pilot and forgot that CV stands for compulsive vig. However if we take out those few words about choosing not to kill, my point is still valid. Ed, you say that you will continue through the rest of the day treating a fake claimer as a confo town. But if they counter claim, don't you think its worse that roleblocker will block and os-vig will shoot him? (Assuming it was indeed the CV that killed magnus) Which basically means that we have to lynch him the next day which could have been done overnight without losing our own vig. Now if we consider that the CV and os-vig both went for magnus (unlikely but lets entertain the thought), a CV counterclaiming will put us in a 50/50 which perhaps could be better than a 43/57 (scum/town) in this case but i dont see why you cant just focus on who the other scum could be and leave the fake claim to the real vig. That way it means we have more breathing space. If the CV has been blocked and the OS-vig has used their shot then you're right the CV should claim.

Although the os-vig is still alive, no one else has brought up any sort of strat involving the os-vig except for the "if they used their shot CV should claim". So i dont see how it's still relevant.

I lynched because I wanted to impose pressure early and on someone who is likely to talk, unlike in day 2 where the lynches served practically no purpose in terms of pressure.

Now for Kodama I guess the "sense of genuinity" is more gut based but here's something I didnt notice before, when ed talked about Kodama's sudden changes in reads I didn't find it scummy because to me it showed that reading the thread more thoroughly can make all the difference. However Kodama stated that he didnt read wall posts, yet Mr Honcho never wrote a single wall post in day 1 and Mona's reasoning makes a lot of sense that it looks like he is trying to blend in with the major opinion while (going back to my old point in day 1) is masking it with the "attempt" of finding his own reasons in which I have explained previously in day 1 that the reasoning has come from a misinterpretation yet Kodama seemed to have simply ignored it.

Mona you say you agree that you're passive and non-committal, surely they are also reasons for lynching you? I mean wifom is always something that requires judgement of possibilities and you should always ask yourself, which is more likely to be the correct possibility. Despite you saying that you are tired and all that, I have seen parts of your posts where you include possible cases then say which you think is the more likely case, therefore you are clearly capable of dealing with wifom.

Game 31: Separated Scum

I find this nightkill to be very strange partly coz it makes more sense for the kill to come from the OS vig. Magnus has been one of the more townie ones due to him bringing up good points despite his disappearance on day 2 so it doesnt make sense for the CV to kill him and there are clearly many more options which are much better and much more likely to be scum. Seeing how scum had a good chance of winning night 2 and that honcho flipped town, it's a large incentive for os vig to make the kill. It could perhaps be that the CV was roleblocked or just didnt choose to make a kill because they realised scum can win if they shoot a townie. The only argumeny against this is why did OS vig shoot magnus and not ed or myself? One reason could be that the os vig predicted magnus to be CV because of the kazalie kill or any other reason. Although i think that it was the os vig that shot, the CV knows who shot magnus. Therefore whoever is the CV, if you didnt shoot magnus, you MUST claim.

It's strange why ed decided to keep the points that have basically repeated what i said after he realised that they were repeated. It's easier to just use the backspace key instead of clarifying that you read mona's post. It just feels like you want to show all of us that you also coincidentally thought of those points, which could well be true, but it seems as if he subtly but deliberately highlighted it. Now i cant really think of a good reason why he would do that but anything that feels unnatural strikes an alarm. Also the vig should never counter claim, they have the power to just shoot the fake claimer. I dont see how you didnt realise this and it was even brought up in the other game which you have clearly shown that you have been following.

Also replying to ed's question (despite not being important anymore since honcho somehow flipped town) i dont think os vig would risk hinting their own role for a strategy that has an iffy chance of working. However it might just be a playstyle thing, perhaps he was fine with taking the risks. It doesnt matter now though since it clear that honcho isnt the os vig.

Rhonda has promised to post a readlist so i'll wait for that therefore from my post in day 2 i will...
Lynch Mona

Game 31: Separated Scum

I did consider honcho being os vig at first but I feel like any sort of vig wouldnt just bring up the topic of suicidal vig as his first (and in his case before this most recent post, his only) topic of discussion. He's definitely not the CV because no one will ever bring up a topic on their own death especially at the start of day 1, and his assertion when he talked about it in his 2nd post eliminates the possibility of wifom. He could be os vig but the idea that the post would hint at his role of being either vig must have crossed his mind and would deter him from doing so. Therefore I feel like he's more likely to not be a vig at all and probably a roleblocker since ed's point about honcho eager to agree that he should be vigged instead of lynched is very noticeable and makes a lot of sense. However I am not sure why a roleblocker would be okay with dying as long as they live for one night. OS vig makes sense but roleblocker doesnt (and I am sure you can work out why without me going into more detail). Which is why I've become slightly unsure about this, however in the context of the timing of my post I dont think lynching someone else will make a difference to the activity or quality of the rest of this day and so I think it's probably safer to lynch honcho. Unfortunately I didnt have the time to write this post earlier which is probably the more optimal time for this post.

I am extremely disappointed with Mona's post. She's still going under the radar and she keeps giving excuses: "I am feeling sick and cant think", "I am not sick but i am tired", "I was busy and i am tired", "oh look i am still tired!". The only time she hasnt done this is when she talks about the mechanics of this setup. She elaborates extremely well on the mechanics and the actions of the vig and what they all mean, however she has given overall a very lackluster effort on reads and scumhunting in general. Now i really doubt that being tired or sick could affect your ability to think in such a dramatic way and so i feel like you are just giving excuses to cover up why you arent really making any sort of effort to scumhunt. Also in your most recent post, you declared what you were going to talk about which was fine, but then when we it gets to the part about roderick, you literally say absolutely nothing new and then go back to pinning it on how tired you are. There is also a reason why no one pointed out the fact that its useful to see who's tunneling on who, it's because day 2 was stale and barely had any sort of tunneling! I don't see how you couldnt have noticed that seeing as how short day 2 was and its fairly clear that you did read back before writing this post. You effectively just nullified this option of finding scum.

Having said that this is all just assuming that she's lying about how ridiculously severe her tiredness or sickness is. I cant remove the possibility that she isn't faking/exaggerating to make an excuse for not making an effort. However this doesnt mean that giving excuses will reduce the severity of the accusation and I want to see a lot more effort coming from Mona if we ever get past night 2. Also lynching her wont do anything since she's made it clear that she isnt going to come back on. Rhonda on the other hand said that she was coming back from vacation yesterday and will post a full readlist then, however evidently this hasnt happened yet. In addition to her acting as a "town mediator" and not pushing anyone, she just clarifies what people mean. Therefore if there was any sort of pressure point that could have been exploited in the scumhunting process, Rhonda would have simply nullified the effect since the player can just regurgitate or use the clarification as a way to defend themselves. If the player really is town, they should be able to defend themselves in a convincing fashion without the assistance of a clarifying town mediator. Therefore it makes sense that Rhonda is doing this from a scum perspective and is likely to be the scum from the 4 players I shortlisted. Magnus disappeared but I am giving him the merit that he has brought up several good points, Kodama is one I am really unsure about but I think Rhonda is more likely to be scum than kodama. Therefore my choice of vig shot is going to be on Rhonda however a Mona shot also makes sense to me.

Lynch Mr Honcho