Game 31: Separated Scum

Ed S. wrote:I was referring to not minding a lynch on one of those four if they continued their trend of actively lurking, which Rhonda did. The difference between her and you being that Rhonda's continual logging in meant that we could verify she was lurking whereas someone not logging in may not be reading the thread.

So, basically you didn't really read me/want to lynch me at that point, since I might've needed a sub?

Ed S. wrote:Question I have for Roderick that I really should have asked earlier: You've mentioned a couple of time talking about things like "I think we're going to have to go in deeper," which implies that the game will go on past today. Considering that we are in MyLo, this is not necessarily the case. Is there a reason for this?

Also I don't get your last post at all. It reads like you're implying that because mafia will actively try to not by scummy, people who are scummy are town. Correct me if I am wrong.

"I think we're going to have to go in deeper" idk about that but yes i do think we are going to lynch scum i mean r u saying u rather have me not be positive? anyone necessarily or not im not going to lose this game also no just saying someone alignment shouldnt be based on just scummyness alone especially in the position were in right now

When Kodama asks Maria the things you were worried about. I was going to ask them tomorrow if we got that far, since Rhonda's flip would then be very helpful in deciphering it.

Kodama: Yes. Rhonda especially had a trend of coming on and not posting, which was why I voted for her over Roderick, who had at the very least promised something.

Roderick: There's nothing wrong with being positive, but you're speaking as if we have time to spare. Other than scumminess, what would you say can be used to verify one's alignment in this setup specifically (where we have no investigative roles)?

Yeah, I thought it would be better to ask next day, as it's best to focus on getting through today, but on the offchance Maria can come back on, I would like her to respond, but as deadline is in 30 minutes, the chance of that happening is slim.

I now have to go. There's a small chance I'll be able to get on at maybe 10 minutes to deadline, but it's slim.

The fact that I have no one to converse with and it's 10 minutes before deadline worries me a lot. I also don't like the wifom involved with Rhonda not defending herself which again, wants to make me unlynch but then plur would be on me..

Votecount 3.3
******************************
Rhonda R.(3)- Kodama N., Wilkinson A., Ed S.
Kodama N.(2)- Mona L., Maria S.
Wilkinson A.(1)- Roderick S.
Roderick S.(0)-
Mona L.(0)-
Maria S.(0)-
Ed S.(0)-
Not Voting(1)- Rhonda R.
******************************
There are 7 alive so it takes 4 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Monday the 10th at 9pm EST.

Rhonda R. was lynched.

she was the...:

If I had more free time to dedicate to this I think it could have turned out differently for me, but as it stands I didnt have room in my schedule to post consistently. Sorry to my partners and good luck pulling this one out. Sorry I couldn't help out more.

the death last night was of...:

Day 4 Commence!

Votecount 4.0
******************************
Kodama N.(0)-
Wilkinson A.(1)-
Roderick S.(0)-
Mona L.(0)-
Ed S.(0)-
Not Voting(5)- Kodama N., Wilkinson A., Ed S., Mona L., Roderick S.
******************************
There are 5 alive so it takes 3 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Sunday the 16th at 9pm EST.

Ugh. Although Maria was a little scummy in the later part of last day, she didn't deserve the shot as she was very towny the other days.
I will elaborate on this later when I have more time.

Should point out we're in MyLo or PLyLo again. I want to evaluate relations.

Yes, scum isn’t guaranteed to know their partners, but we can at least look at yesterday’s LyLo. Were Maria alive still, for example, I was going to point out that her behavior had became more erratic throughout the day and her last post contradicted much of her behavior prior (she’d hardly mentioned Kodama, had prior to her last post said Rhonda not coming on made things worse worse for her, and barely pressured Roderick aside from placing a vote on him.) I’ll try to stay engaged in the current conversation as well.

I have questions unanswered from yesterday and questions caused by the flip. I’m frankly satisfied with both Kodama and Mona’s EoD’s in that I feel I can go back and understand their intentions, regardless of alignment, hence there are fewer questions for them.

Questions for Roderick::

Questions for Wilkinson::

Questions for Kodama::

Questions for Mona:

Wishing Maria was alive to explain why she didn't think Roderick was scum and go into more detail with Kodama. Roderick's definitely had more scumhunting than Wilkinson, at least. While I'm reading back, I'm also going to look for the things Maria mentioned closer to EoD, since at least we now know they don't come from someone trying to manipulate things.

So I found interactions between everyone/Rhonda. I obviously didn't analyze myself, so if anyone else wants to do so, feel free.

If Wilkinson is scum, this means he bussed Rhonda. While not impossible, I have doubts on if scum would be so hasty to lynch a potential partner. Possibly a scum!Wilkinson simply didn't read Rhonda as a partner, or thought she was a lost cause. He votes Rhonda because she is the least iffy of the three "wagons" (as Mona has pointed out, there was no Mona wagon at the time). I still don't like the need that he felt the need to join a wagon to begin with when he was coming back, and I can very much see a scum!Wilkinson quickly voting for someone he believed to be a mislynch, then putting in minimal effort after. Despite this, I think he is an unlikely partner.

If Roderick is scum, it means he held off on giving an opinion on his partner (Rhonda) and Mona. He later calls Rhonda and Mona one scum and one town, which could be an attempt to clear the other if one flips scum. (He'd have reason to do this regardless of alignment.) He starts a wagon on Wilkinson, which gains no traction and Roderick really doesn't push it that much. The only pushing present is a comment to Rhonda: "I do believe [Wilkinson] is a better one, but you kind of did this to yourself." In light of the flip, this comes across to me as Roderick trying to both support the Rhonda lynch while trying to justify the Wilkinson vote. "You kind of did this to yourself" is not something I'd expect from town in LyLo. I've discussed his use of future tense, which felt like he knew that the game was going to go on past Day Three. This makes him, in my opinion, a possible partner.

I've gone into detail with my theories on a Mona/Rhonda scumteam. Mona kind of just brushed it aside, which I didn't appreciate but could see Mona doing regardless of alignment. Everything I mentioned about Rhonda's read on Mona still stands, but that alone doesn't prevent Mona from being the hidden miller. A scum!Mona pushing a counterwagon on Kodama makes sense. I don't want to look into her not voting Rhonda too much because I didn't see her online during the time between my unvote and revote, but I don't like that she only started to be okay with a Rhonda lynch when Rhonda was at L-1 and Mona could justify not voting. Mona also only asks Rhonda a question and becomes torn between her and Kodama after she's been called out on possibly chainsawing onto Kodama. She is, in my opinion, currently the most likely to be a partner.

Kodama was essentially the counterwagon to Rhonda. Rhonda didn't come online in time to potentially shift, but she did scumread Kodama and go on to not lynch him. This scumread is based on a "sketchy" trend of commenting on the game and Kodama being a statement-oriented reader (I don't find either of these scummy.) On the other hand, Kodama is quick to lynch Rhonda. If he's a partner, he certainly hadn't inspected her at that point and I don't think he'd be so willing to vote so quickly after my vote on her. I think of the people alive, Kodama is the most likely candidate for hidden miller but an unlikely partner.

Then again, for all we know Mr. Cheeves was the hidden miller and talking about that is pointless. The most to least likely to be a partner to Rhonda, in my opinion, goes Mona>Roderick>>Wilkinson>Kodama.

I almost brought up possibly No Lynching, but typing it out I realized how iffy an idea that was. If others have better reasons to support it, I'm open to hearing about it. (My thought was that it's likely the OS Vig has used their shot at this point, but that's a wifom case I don't want to deal with. Also it puts the game in the hands of the Vig, who from their perspective has a 50% chance of hitting scum.)

Roderick calling out Rhonda's lurking and then lynching Wilkinson, a lurker, is also bad. Particularly because of Roderick's own lurking. This is also bad for him.

Rhonda R. wrote:I'm on vacation right now, getting back at some point tomorrow so I'll be able to post a full readlist then, but for now I'll add this to the discussion:  Making all these assumptions and reads on Rodrick right now seems fairly pointless to me.  He hasn't made enough posts for someone to truly be able to figure out his exact playstyle or thoroughly read him as town or scum.  I'd like to see more activity out of him or a sub before I actually make a read on him.

Rhonda's only post D2. She didn't comment on Day One (but also didn't comment on Mona and Kodama, and Mr. Honcho. All of these people actually make sense as people for scum to inspect Night 2.) We weren't really discussing Roderick's scumminess so much as we were discussing a neutral read on him, so is this Rhonda jumping to a conclusion and trying to defend an inspected partner? Looking back through Rhonda's posts more I'm becoming less certain of town!Roderick. GFDI WHAT DID MARIA SEE OTHER THAN HIM PUTTING IN EFFORT.

Rhonda R. wrote:
At this point, mafia is in an extremely advantageous position.  We need more than 3-4 people actively discussing the game at a time, myself included.  The two people who just subbed in need to read through the game ASAP and post their thoughts/reads so that we have the best possible chance of lynching a mafia member today.  We need as much information as possible in order to make a smart lynch decision today.

I'll put together a full readlist either today or tomorrow at the latest, and I expect the same from Mona, Kodama, Roderick, and Wilkinson.

Start of Day Three. For Rhonda to say this even though she's one of the inactives is very odd, and possibly indicates that she was saying to a partner, "Hey, I need you to post more so I can townread you." She mentions the subs especially, so I think at least one is a partner.

If you're wondering why I only mention this now, I checked Game 30 and O O. (still jealous of the name) had the idea of looking at Yuzo (scum)'s more general comments to see if he was excusing a certain playstyle used by a partner.

I'm doing a full reread of the game by the way.

But before I really get into it, one thing I notice instantly and another question for Mona. Minor point, but why not mention that you had something going on irl prior to the game?

(Happy 100 posts.)

Mona L. wrote:
We should definitely decide as a town who the vig should kill though. Although there is also definitely a point to be made for letting the vig decide for themselves when the scum to town ratio gets too bad. That seems like a good idea.

You still suggested a shot in LyLo despite supporting this (saying that whichever of Kodama/Rhonda wasn't lynched should be shot) which makes this feel less genuine. Any reason for suggesting still?

Roderick S. wrote:
i don't like Maria's opening and the immediate opposition to D1 RVS strikes me as scum trying to gain towncred by "moving town forward in the right direction" which is only indicative of town after RVS has been going on for a while and hasn't been fruitful. I also don't see the reasoning for the Mr Cheeves lynch and tonally the "I have a decent reason (explained above) to make this lynch" is really weird it's as if they know they're lynching town so trying to justify that they have a reason for it

Reading back over this, it feels more like a discredit. Maria mentioned that Roderick used all his resources re: posts made by Maria, but Maria does have other posts. (Roderick #1 being active would have helped. >_<) No, Roderick #2, I don't expect you to be able to answer to this. (Also I'm 90% certain I know who Roderick #1 is.)

Mona L. wrote:
Another thing we need to consider, is that if the vig just kills their own reads, it'll make them really easy to find for the traitors. Let's say only one person in the game has a scumread on someone, and that person dies, while the town decided on a different kill, well, who oh who could be the vig? So at that point the vig would have to hide their reads, to not be revealed as vig. It would cause more problems than just the "can we trust their reads?" question.

This calls to mind the Magnus shot, as the OS Vig may have thought he was Vig due to Kazalie's death. Vig shooting Magnus is still possible, but if there's someone the OS Vig shot Magnus is the most likely case. Bringing this up because it could have been trying to tell an OS Vig partner what to look for.

Mr. Cheeves wrote:First off, I'd like to say that since it's day 1, and no night actions have been used yet, it means that most of these reads are by heart and not by softing inspections and such. So d1 can contrast with many other days to the traitors especially if they get a mafia. If someone flips traitor, using the interactions between d1 and other days, especially if someone gets town read or scum read without a legitimately good reason could be a sign of inspect or buddying. That being said now they'll probably play around what I just said and there was no point in even saying this.

This probably screwed us over a good deal. But I want to look at those who haven't been giving reads that much. Rhonda didn't until LyLo. It might be unfair to call out Wilkinson and Roderick for this, though. To Mona's credit, she did give reads Day One, however late.

Kodama N. wrote:Considering deadline is tomorrow (according to Ed) and I might not be able to come on again (mainly due to me not knowing timezones well), I shall lynch Mr.
Cheeves. since I don't think we should let Rhonda die just due to inactivity, though I would like to give her a chance of posting and to defend herself, while Mr Cheeves's defense/comment was just asking for more depth on reads on him. Most of my reasoning is in my reads post above, but I realised the filler/wifom/confusing parts of his posts weigh more to the scummy side than the one point about RVS.

Shifts plur of of Rhonda. No, he couldn't know Rhonda's alignment at this point. But Rhonda was, at this point, a possible inspection target (easy push if town, easy to postpone reads on/defend if scum). Was Kodama trying to  keep his intended inspect safe/hoping to gain Rhonda's favor by "saving" her?

Mona L. wrote:
Anyways, Wilkinson: He confirmed. And lynched for someone's style, guessing that's just RVS things, he might have just forgotten about the game after that. Neutral

Kodama: Well he started with a readslist, but in that readlist he's already being weird. That isn't really scummy though, as scum doesn't know anything right now either. His reasoning on the lynch is confusing (or maybe I just don't get it) Kodama in general is kind of acting strange, his reasoning seriously needs an explanation, yet I don't think scum would be so careless as to let their explanations be as confusing as Kodama's are. Leaning town

Roderick: He hasn't really said much, but what he has said doesn't make sense to me right now. He talks about how opposing RVS makes you scummy, except if you wait long enough it doesn't? He explains why, but it still strikes me as odd. He also mostly posts about someone's confirmation post being scummy, or the fact that there is only a confirmation post being scummy. And that one sentence about thinking Magnus is towny. Leaning scum

Magnus: He talks in an annoying way, but he's also active. His way of talking is throwing me off a lot though, so I am not sure if I just don't like him or if I think he's scummy. That's why I'll just leave it at neutral

Reads from Mona I find notable. The next time you mention Kodama, he's your strongest scumread on Day Three. I know we've discussed it, but could you pleas lay out how you progressed on this? The read on Magnus stands out for what it's based on, as he did have content. I think it's not overly notable though. I asked you what your thoughts were on Wilkinson/Roderick based on their first subs earlier, and your comments then at least align with this. I like that.

Wilkinson A. wrote:
Unlynch Magnus D.

The condom is no longer worthy of a ping pong ball to the face!

But this man is!

Lynch Kodama N.

I don't expect Wilkinson #3 to have an answer, but Kodama is the only person Wilkinson #3 gives no read on. This makes sense if Wilkinson #1 inspected Kodama and was trying to soft it here.

Wilkinson A. wrote:Fuck making Day One Newspaper Readslists!

Yeah, thanks. This still pisses me off. It's more likely to come from scum still, in my opinion.

Kodama N. wrote:
Rodrick S. - As I said before, he wanted to bring up “Ed’s scummy opening” even though that was pre-game and anything happens pre-game is pre-game. He pointed out Maria S.’s pre-game comments as well. He also says Maria’s first post about Ed’s theme post was scummy, even though it is a necessary topic to talk about. He practically also said, “Why has no one pushed Rhonda for her inactivity yet? Inactivity = Scum!”. He also goes on saying Magnus is the towniest player at that point, and he hasn’t been on ever since to explain why he thought this. Leaning scum. since he has been on since he last posted which means he can explain his posts.

Mona L. - Her reads post while she was sick showed she is dedicated to posting something in here, and her reads on everyone look okay to me and she did do what I asked of her in my first reads list. Her comment on Ed’s post on the setup was very helpful in discussion about the setup and clearly showed effort. She considers a lot of things that could happen/should happen in the future, and does this by bringing these subjects up for discussion. Overall, towny appearance. Town.

Rhonda R. - Her only post (which was 1 day before the deadline), repeated a lot of things said already. For me it was sorta like a ‘just to let you guys know I’m here, and am reading what people are saying’ post. I would like to see more quality of posts from her. Neutral.

Notable reads in my opinion from Kodama's second readlist. You bring up Roderick's comment on Rhonda "inactivity=scum!". Is this not what you did in your first readlist? Your read on Mona shifts from a strong townread to a strong scumread from Day Two to Day Three. Why I didn't notice this I'm not sure, but I want an explanation, especially because she's Town here.

Mona L. wrote:
I personally didn't lynch Wilkinson because while he is very scummy, I'm also not sure why he would act like that if he is scum. I still think he's more likely to be scum trying to wifom this, but I don't particularly trust my judgement on wifom as I tend to think about what I myself would do and don't think of what other people would do, which is why I didn't go for a lynch.

Now as to Roderick (as a lot of the discussion has been about him) nothing's changed about him, and he is very similar to Wilkinson in that way. He hasn't been here a lot, and when he has he's been very useless. Again, it's a very wifom situation, and I don't know whether or not he's scum. I'm not good at wifom. I'm also very tired right now, and I would try to talk about this more but I can feel that I am too tired to really get what I'm talking about anymore. Sorry about that, like I mentioned before, something came up and I am suddenly really busy.

Moving onto Day Two, I want to talk about this. Early in the day I'd been hoping for a reaction test. What I'd been looking for, to quote notes I made:

"Watch for Mona's reaction to my lynching Wilkinson. Watch for if she joins the lynch, as if she doesn't it could be scum paranoid about looking like bandwagoning. If she doesn't, examine her reasoning. If she does, watch for if Maria still believes him to be a Vanilla Townie. If she does and Wilkinson responds, watch how she reacts to this."

This came late in the day, but you still didn't push for Wilkinson's lynch. We've discussed you being passive, but you no longer nominate him for a Vigilante shot Day Two. What changed?

Your comment on Roderick is similar to Rhonda in that the discussion in question was more about my read on him than on Roderick himself. I've mentioned the length:content ratio, so I won't mention it here again.

Day Two was depressingly inactive, so this is the only post from there I want to comment on.

If everyone can give their reads on Roderick and why they read him as such when they get online, it would be helpful. I want to see if anyone knows what Maria saw that made her not think he's scum, because I'm not seeing it.

Kodama N. wrote:Ugh. Although Maria was a little scummy in the later part of last day, she didn't deserve the shot as she was very towny the other days.
I will elaborate on this later when I have more time.

Just noticed that you seem to automatically conclude Maria was shot by the Vig and not the OS Vig. Is there a reason for this?

I had a reasoning and everything pre-typed and ready to roll but ¡NOPE!. Apparently this ¡PRO AF VIG! thinks i deserve to get shot for one post that could be taken as scummy without even a chance to explain despite helping town scumhunt as much as i could beforehand. You know i actually thought this was gonna be an alright town this time, but they never cease amaze me how stupid they can be. First magnus and now me.... welp gl town i guess!!!

This is going to be like Day Two, only worst, isn't it...

I'm looking at possible scumteams now, factoring in that they may not have inspected each other. I won't reveal my thoughts yet, but I do want to point one thing out, re: Wilkinson's hasty vote. There's another possible scum motivation for this in which a scum!Wilkinson inspects a partner and the hidden miller and mistakenly thinks he's found his team, thus being content with lynching anyone else. This would actually make a lot of sense, but it's still a hypothetical.

Regardless, this applies to the other people who voted Rhonda (myself and Kodama) as well, meaning nobody should be considering any of us "clear" based on this.

More questions:

Roderick, when you come online, could you give your reads on the other players? Just like a list their name, read, and the reasoning behind it?

Mona, what are your thoughts on Wilkinson and Roderick now that their subs have posted?

Kodama, what do you make of Wilkinson's hasty vote with the knowledge that the person he voted flipped scum?

By the way, none of you had better lynch. There's a high chance in my opinion of scum knowing their partner at this point, so a quickhammer's not out of the question. I'm entering a similar mood to Day Two where I feel the need to be doing something, so...literally anyone do anything, please.

well i dont get the vigs hot at all, i actually thought i would gotten shot under my circumstances. but anyways for starters, I think Its smart For The Vig To claim if Roleblocked n2 aka if your shot didn't go thru if that is the case then it means mafia really did use os vig and it would be a clear for town. If that is not the case then ig they shouldn't. anyways im just checking in and ill been on later and post more hopefully

One one hand, I'm glad for something to respond to.

On the other hand, we discussed this exact thing at the beginning of Day Three and nothing's changed since then.

Ed S. wrote:

Kodama N. wrote:Ugh. Although Maria was a little scummy in the later part of last day, she didn't deserve the shot as she was very towny the other days.
I will elaborate on this later when I have more time.

Just noticed that you seem to automatically conclude Maria was shot by the Vig and not the OS Vig. Is there a reason for this?

It has occurred to me that the Roleblocker is dead. Ignore this.

Okay so I'm going to try and give answers to all of Ed's questions, which are a lot. So if I don't answer everything I either missed it or ran out of time. First things first though, we know for sure that the CV shot maria, they're compulsive and the roleblocker is dead. We don't know for sure if the mafia vig has used their shot, as they would have probably wanted to hurt town. Killing Maria would work quite well.

We also need to either not lynch at all right now and leave it to the vig, with a chance of them failing and a chance of the mafia vig still being able to do something. After the vig killed Maria I'm not sure I would trust them with such an important decision, I'd honestly prefer a dice roll over their so far 0% rate of hitting scum. So we need to lynch scum today, if we don't, we lose because of the 50% rule. As soon as someone dies who isn't scum, we have 2 vs 2 so we lose.

I also wanted to say something else, yesterday Maria asked me why I was torn between Kodama and Rhonda, and I honestly realized while I was making that post that I didn't have to choose between Kodama and Rhonda. They could both be scum. Which is where I have been going wrong for the entirety of day 3. I forgot to delete the part of me being torn.

Ed S. wrote:Should point out we're in MyLo or PLyLo again. I want to evaluate relations.

...

Questions for Mona:

...

so first yeah, if we misslynch we lose. If we don't lynch we might still win, but I have kind of lost faith in our vig.

After my last post on day 3 I was online for a bit more but ended up having to leave, so anything after that? I saw it after the lynches happened. And I would probably not have lynched Rhonda, because I'd be too confused about you unlynching her. So I don't know, I might have unlynched Kodama but I believed, and still do believe, that they are both scum. Or in Rhonda's case was.

I do not want to fully explain the IRL stuff, but I will say that it suddenly came up during this game, and I didn't know how to manage it at first, but I figured it out. And when I figured that out I could actually use a lot more time for psanon again.

Ed S. wrote:So I found interactions between everyone/Rhonda. I obviously didn't analyze myself, so if anyone else wants to do so, feel free.

...

I've gone into detail with my theories on a Mona/Rhonda scumteam. Mona kind of just brushed it aside, which I didn't appreciate but could see Mona doing regardless of alignment. Everything I mentioned about Rhonda's read on Mona still stands, but that alone doesn't prevent Mona from being the hidden miller. A scum!Mona pushing a counterwagon on Kodama makes sense. I don't want to look into her not voting Rhonda too much because I didn't see her online during the time between my unvote and revote, but I don't like that she only started to be okay with a Rhonda lynch when Rhonda was at L-1 and Mona could justify not voting. Mona also only asks Rhonda a question and becomes torn between her and Kodama after she's been called out on possibly chainsawing onto Kodama. She is, in my opinion, currently the most likely to be a partner.

...

I almost brought up possibly No Lynching, but typing it out I realized how iffy an idea that was. If others have better reasons to support it, I'm open to hearing about it. (My thought was that it's likely the OS Vig has used their shot at this point, but that's a wifom case I don't want to deal with. Also it puts the game in the hands of the Vig, who from their perspective has a 50% chance of hitting scum.)

I mean, I'm not sure how you want me to respond to the entire scumteam theory of yours? Like, I am just a very forgiving person who gives people a lot of chances. Rhonda gave a half-assed explanation, and I was willing to deal with it if she actually changed her behaviour. But she didn't. The timing of me speaking up about it simply happened to align with the timing of your theory of me chainsawing off of her. I honestly don't know how to respond to scumteam theories so I generally just ignore them and hope they go away. Which is why I brushed it off.

We don't know if the OS Vig has used their shot, but if we trust the CV to shoot the actual scum, everything's fine, we'll just be in a 1v2 after that if the OS vig uses their (possible) shot. I'm just not sure I trust the CV. If we want the 50/50 odds, we could have the CV claim, would have the same effect but we could actually properly discuss everything, without wasting our time on discussing the CV's behaviour. It does have downsides, with the scum actually have influence on what happens, so I'm not sure what would be the better course of action objectively speaking, but from what happened so far, we did get a scum through a lynch, and not through a nightkill. Even when the CV should have better odds. So unless someone has any arguments against it, I think lynching would be best.

Ed S. wrote:I'm doing a full reread of the game by the way.

But before I really get into it, one thing I notice instantly and another question for Mona. Minor point, but why not mention that you had something going on irl prior to the game?

(Happy 100 posts.)

Because there was nothing going on prior to the game. It came up during the game, and I didn't think I needed a sub either as I knew I could figure out how to handle it.

Ed S. wrote:

Mona L. wrote:
We should definitely decide as a town who the vig should kill though. Although there is also definitely a point to be made for letting the vig decide for themselves when the scum to town ratio gets too bad. That seems like a good idea.

You still suggested a shot in LyLo despite supporting this (saying that whichever of Kodama/Rhonda wasn't lynched should be shot) which makes this feel less genuine. Any reason for suggesting still?

...

Mona L. wrote:
Another thing we need to consider, is that if the vig just kills their own reads, it'll make them really easy to find for the traitors. Let's say only one person in the game has a scumread on someone, and that person dies, while the town decided on a different kill, well, who oh who could be the vig? So at that point the vig would have to hide their reads, to not be revealed as vig. It would cause more problems than just the "can we trust their reads?" question.

This calls to mind the Magnus shot, as the OS Vig may have thought he was Vig due to Kazalie's death. Vig shooting Magnus is still possible, but if there's someone the OS Vig shot Magnus is the most likely case. Bringing this up because it could have been trying to tell an OS Vig partner what to look for.

...

Mona L. wrote:
Anyways, Wilkinson: He confirmed. And lynched for someone's style, guessing that's just RVS things, he might have just forgotten about the game after that. Neutral

Kodama: Well he started with a readslist, but in that readlist he's already being weird. That isn't really scummy though, as scum doesn't know anything right now either. His reasoning on the lynch is confusing (or maybe I just don't get it) Kodama in general is kind of acting strange, his reasoning seriously needs an explanation, yet I don't think scum would be so careless as to let their explanations be as confusing as Kodama's are. Leaning town

Roderick: He hasn't really said much, but what he has said doesn't make sense to me right now. He talks about how opposing RVS makes you scummy, except if you wait long enough it doesn't? He explains why, but it still strikes me as odd. He also mostly posts about someone's confirmation post being scummy, or the fact that there is only a confirmation post being scummy. And that one sentence about thinking Magnus is towny. Leaning scum

Magnus: He talks in an annoying way, but he's also active. His way of talking is throwing me off a lot though, so I am not sure if I just don't like him or if I think he's scummy. That's why I'll just leave it at neutral

Reads from Mona I find notable. The next time you mention Kodama, he's your strongest scumread on Day Three. I know we've discussed it, but could you pleas lay out how you progressed on this? The read on Magnus stands out for what it's based on, as he did have content. I think it's not overly notable though. I asked you what your thoughts were on Wilkinson/Roderick based on their first subs earlier, and your comments then at least align with this. I like that.

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I suggested it more as a way to make my opinion clear than anything else. I knew the vig should probably not be listening to town at this point.

I actually said that as a warning to the CV. It was possible they hadn't thought of it, so I figured that I should say something about it to make sure they knew to watch out for it.

Honestly it feels like you're trying to look for consistency faults with me to get me to slip or something? Asking things that I should know, and that I've probably explained before. Such as the shift on Kodama. On day 1 he simply didn't stand out to me. I figured that yes, he was acting strange, but it could just be a towny who is terrible at explaining their thought process. Which is very similar to what I have to deal with. But on day 3, looking back at it, the way he completely shifted on so many things within twelve hours was actually really weird. I just hadn't really noticed it before, I must admit on day 1 I was not reading very closely. And looking through the rest of his posts there wasn't anything really convincing me that he was simply having a rough start either. Nothing was very convincingly townie to me. Then of course his reaction to it was even worse, which is why I stuck with my read. And I still think he's very scummy because he came on after seeing the kill and didn't really say a lot? Also like you mentioned somewhere else he hasn't responded to the thing on him twisting my words around.

Ed S. wrote:

Mona L. wrote:
I personally didn't lynch Wilkinson because while he is very scummy, I'm also not sure why he would act like that if he is scum. I still think he's more likely to be scum trying to wifom this, but I don't particularly trust my judgement on wifom as I tend to think about what I myself would do and don't think of what other people would do, which is why I didn't go for a lynch.

Now as to Roderick (as a lot of the discussion has been about him) nothing's changed about him, and he is very similar to Wilkinson in that way. He hasn't been here a lot, and when he has he's been very useless. Again, it's a very wifom situation, and I don't know whether or not he's scum. I'm not good at wifom. I'm also very tired right now, and I would try to talk about this more but I can feel that I am too tired to really get what I'm talking about anymore. Sorry about that, like I mentioned before, something came up and I am suddenly really busy.

Moving onto Day Two, I want to talk about this. Early in the day I'd been hoping for a reaction test. What I'd been looking for, to quote notes I made:

"Watch for Mona's reaction to my lynching Wilkinson. Watch for if she joins the lynch, as if she doesn't it could be scum paranoid about looking like bandwagoning. If she doesn't, examine her reasoning. If she does, watch for if Maria still believes him to be a Vanilla Townie. If she does and Wilkinson responds, watch how she reacts to this."

This came late in the day, but you still didn't push for Wilkinson's lynch. We've discussed you being passive, but you no longer nominate him for a Vigilante shot Day Two. What changed?

Your comment on Roderick is similar to Rhonda in that the discussion in question was more about my read on him than on Roderick himself. I've mentioned the length:content ratio, so I won't mention it here again.

Day Two was depressingly inactive, so this is the only post from there I want to comment on.

Honestly day two was my complete and total exhaustion day. I did NOT trust my judgement. I honest to god didn't even realize it was going to be deadline when I logged off on deadline night. Which is why If I remember correctly, I didn't nominate any vig shots at all. So if I had, I might have nominated him, I don't know anymore. I know that I left not having a single clue what was going on anymore that day. And honestly you apparently have notes of everything? I never even realized people did that. So while for you it's normal to know your thoughts on specific days, I just forget.

Ed S. wrote:If everyone can give their reads on Roderick and why they read him as such when they get online, it would be helpful. I want to see if anyone knows what Maria saw that made her not think he's scum, because I'm not seeing it.

You asked me specifically about Roderick and Wilkinson so I will be answering that below

Ed S. wrote:...

Mona, what are your thoughts on Wilkinson and Roderick now that their subs have posted?

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By the way, none of you had better lynch. There's a high chance in my opinion of scum knowing their partner at this point, so a quickhammer's not out of the question. I'm entering a similar mood to Day Two where I feel the need to be doing something, so...literally anyone do anything, please.

So Wilkinson first, Wilkinson has been kind of similar to Rhonda. He said he'd be back in a few hours and he'd do reads and vote, but he hasn't done shit. He has voted before making that post though? With some really bad reasoning. Something about wagons feeling iffy and the Rhonda one being best. I'm not sure if this is a sub who simply hasn't had enough of a chanceto do things, or scum who is trying to fly under the radar. Until Wilkinson proves otherwise though, I'm going to say he's too similar to Rhonda to be town. leaning scum

With Roderick... well it's hard to get a read on him. Half of the time I don't really get what he's trying to say, and figuring out which parts are his and which parts are broken quotes are also a pain. I'd say he's doing better than Wilkinson with making an attempt at least, but then, he is being even more unresponsive. Wilkinson says he'll do something and then doesn't do it (like Rhonda who flipped scum) but Roderick just doesn't even say he'll do anything? He might say he'll post or answer questions, but that's stuff you're basically forced to do. He never makes any readlists and he just came on and ignored Ed's question for a readlist. So he's also leaning scum

Which of them is worse? I'm not sure. I just believe that between them at least one is scum, it could be both and Kodama could just be a really scummy town player. The only thing I can be certain about right now (as far as reads can be certain) is that Ed is probably town. Then I still believe Kodama is scum, and the second scum would be between Roderick and Wilkinson, but which of them it would be is something I'd need to think about a lot more. I also feel a headache coming up so I won't be going through everything again right now, but I'll be here to answer questions for a while, as that doesn't take that much energy.

EDIT: I am not actually editing this I am modifying my post before posting it but I can't find the thing where I talked about roleblocker being dead before but I do see the new post with Ed realizing roleblocker is dead, so that's cleared up now.