Game 28: Guess Who?

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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Steveland W. on Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:51 pm

Aya Y. wrote:
Steveland W. wrote:2) I know everyone has noticed this at this point but what would everyones opinions be on giving Aya some pressure? (This is due to her little contribtion this does not mean to start a lynch on her merely put pressure on her so she would start doing stuff (Like give her readlist)

You act as if I'm not able to see this or am not here.  I'll make and post my readlist tonight.

I feel like you took this really badly from my perspective and u sound super annoyed (Which u prolly are)

If its about the contribution part its b/c you said like 1 thing (Yesterday (Im not counting the other days)) (I may have missed another) with you disagreeing with Nathaniel being lynched and reasoning to lynch Serena instead which is contribution i'd just like to see more tbh,

But it's also b/c i never see u posting or saying anything (which is why I feel that you are never here), the reason I wanted pressure on u is so that you'd talk a bit more (Which I dont think is unreasonable to ask for), and I do know that you'd see it since you strike me as a person that reads through everything
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Aya Y. on Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:09 pm

Alright, here is my current readlist (in order of the players listed as "alive" in aj's first post if you're interested):

Mrs. Grimm:  Mrs. Grimm 1 was inactive, but seemed to know what she was prior to her disappearance.  Mrs. Grimm 2, on the other hand, has made quite a first impression.  Her first substantial post was her readlist, and it was something.  She scumread two dead townies, and read Lulu twice with two different conclusions.  This just seems like an insincere readlist to me, and she probably should have caught herself up fully before making it.  Leaning scum due to the lack of effort on her only posts so far.

Lulu L.:  She is very logical and methodical in the way she thinks, something I tend to view positively because I see myself as a logical thinker as well.  She likes to collect her thoughts before sharing them in large posts, from which Mrs. Grimm 2 could learn a lesson from.  The 4 player reads she has posted so far were very thorough and detailed, and despite two of them dying her conclusions on each player are valid based on how each of them have played.  Leaning town because of her logical evaluations and her ability to make sound conclusions based on what has happened. (sidenote: after reading through your posts I'm practically positive that I know your identity)

Nathaniel E.:  During day 1 and 2 he was constantly being pressured, so as a result he comes off as slightly defensive during that time.  He tends to copy/paste entire walls of text to give his reads on them, which makes it seem like he's making bigger posts than he actually is (note: some of this comes from him not actually quoting people, and instead simply c/ping their posts into his).  While he does do a lot of organizing of other people's thoughts, he does have his own opinions and is quick to air his complaints about other people's playstyles e.g. Molly's suspicion of him, Mirror Serena's posts, Mrs. Grimm's readlist.  I said earlier that I don't think he should be lynched right now, and I still would rather see other people lynched at this moment instead of him.  However, I'm still not sure if I townread him because of his tendency to simply restate things either through paraphrasing or by directly placing the quote in his post.  Neutral.

Aya Y.:  I don't know about everyone else but I'm confirmed to myself.

Wilma F.:  The popular read on her was the accuse her of "not properly explaining herself" or "having no content in her posts".  I didn't get either vibe from reading through her posts.  She seemed to trying to get answers out of people who weren't willing to answer her.  When she made a giant post listing her grievances with Molly and lynching her, Molly wrote it off as OMGUS while complimenting that her post had "more reasoning" than she usually has, and avoiding all the questions she was asked in Wilma's posts.  Apologies if this seems more like Molly's read than Wilma's, it's just that she is Wilma's main conflict thus far and much of her recent content is directed towards her.  Regardless, I feel that Wilma has sort of been cast aside for not talking about topics that other people touched on while having the reads and ideas she does state get ignored by people even if they read them. Leaning town.

Molly Q.:  I've touched on her a bit in above reads, but I will go into more detail here.  I'd like to go into detail on her issue with Nathaniel at the moment since she seems convinced he is scum.  She accused him of being active day 1 to avoid being suspicious, and also suspect him for being defensive when he was getting pressured.  Another serious issue she had with him was his inactivity streak from 3/10 to 3/15, accusing him of trying to stay under the radar, when previously she accused him of trying to do the same thing by being active.  Which one is it?  Also, she stated that he was inactive longer than he said he would be.  He said he would be unable to post on 3/11 and 3/12, which proved true as he did not post during this time.  He did not post on either 3/13 or 3/13 since it was night phase during that time and posting would have been in violation of the rules.  He was then the second person to post the next day.  I don't see where the problem is.

Her issue with Wilma stems from a belief that she has a lack of content in her posts.  I've covered in my Wilma read that she has had plenty of content recently and her seeming lack of such content made sense beforehand based on how she seems to be making her reads (she uses what people says to make reads on them, and most of her "contentless" posts are on day 1/early day 2).

Molly, I'd like to say something directly to you at this point.  In a post Wilma made, which you obviously saw since you responded to it, she asked you what "your idea of context" is and you never bothered to answer her.  It's possible that you missed that part of the post like you missed Nathaniel's inactivity announcement but I'd find that hard to believe since it was right at the beginning of the "content" of her post.  I can see that you sort of answered it in a roundabout way in your next post when referring to Guy and Lulu's reads, but I think Wilma wanted a more direct answer considering how she has mostly been ignored this game.

Sorry this got to be such a long read, but I wanted to cover her two main scumreads so far since that is a majority of what her posts have been about so far.  Leaning scum, but only because of her scumreads.  Most of what she has said otherwise has been well thought out and despite stating otherwise it really feels like she is tunneling Nathaniel.

Steveland W.  I'd like to start this by quickly explaining my last post where I referred to you asking about pressuring me.  I wasn't really attacking you or the idea of pressuring me, but I had a problem with the way you went about it.  Asking the rest of the the game about pressuring me in the manner that you did accomplishes nothing.  If you think I should be pressured for not contributing, then pressure me instead of asking for approval to do so.  I just wanted to get that out of the way, on to the actual read.

He seems to be fairly passive when he makes reads, like he doesn't want to anger or annoy anyone (circling back to how he treated my inactivity).  Most of the time he'll point something out and then when they respond  with either an explanation or criticism he seems to take a step back and become less aggressive towards that point.  It may be simply that he was led to see their argument by their response and now agrees with them like in his interactions with Wilma and Molly.  However, I feel like he would have an easier time getting his points across if he was more assertive as opposed to making everything into a question.  Most of his reads are just observations without opinions followed by questions.  Not to say that he hasn't contributed any of his own ideas, but he hasn't done a great job of getting them across like Lulu does.  Neutral, since I can tell you are trying to make good reads but you don't seem to be able to make any real independent claims.

My entire evening was spent making this readlist, and I feel like I covered everyone sufficiently.  I'm unable to post most days because my free time is limited, but I'll try to answer any questions people have about my reads over the next couple days.
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Mrs. Grimm on Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:41 am

Fuck, really sorry about that. First Lulu L. was supposed to be Mirror Serena I think. Disregard that part for now. Not defending myself for the bad post but I really was in a rush yesterday and now I'm here to contribute
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Mrs. Grimm on Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:10 am

Alright now:
1- The read list I posted got some flack. It was supposed to be an INITIAL read list. It was solely based off of my first impression on every person, just by reading this really quickly, basically who gave off a scummy vibe and who didn't. I admit maybe I shouldn't have hurried to post it, but I wanted to at least post something useful so we could have a discussion, and so AJ would know I'm here and not look for another sub xD
2- Nathaniel: Why did you get really angry about that? Those are MY reads. You don't have to agree with them. As I said they were based solely on first impressions. And you getting rather defensive about it isn't helping your case. Yes, Molly has also made solid points, but Steveland's posts were spot on, at least to me, which makes him town for now.
I didn't hop on the Nathaniel is shitposting bandwagon. I just saw your posts and formed my own opinion about you. You getting all defensive isn't helping though.
3- Steveland: I didn't base my reads on who was trying to lynch me. I sincerely felt Guy F. was scummy. It turned out he was town. I never base reads on who is FOSing me, especially when I just subbed in for someone who could have been acting scummy.
4- Aya: Again, That readlist was a first impression kind of thing. First impressions for someone who just joined on day 4 are important. In any case, no one liked it so maybe it wasn't the best post
5- Nathaniel and Aya: You both see me as scum. If you have any questions about any of my posts, go ahead and ask them. (Also Nathaniel, don't ask 'X and Y did the same thing why do you find X is scum and Y is town?' Posting style, attitude, and content are what I based my list on)
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by ajhockeystar on Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:11 am

Votecount 4.1
******************************

Nathaniel E.(1)- Molly Q.
Mrs. Grimm(0)-
Molly Q.(0)-
Wilma F.(0)-
Lulu L.(0)-
Steveland W.(0)-
Aya Y.(0)-
Not Voting(6)- Aya Y., Mrs. Grimm, Lulu L., Wilma F., Steveland W., Nathaniel E.
******************************
There are 7 alive so it takes 4 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Saturday the 25th at 9pm EST.

If the deadline was now, Nathaniel E. would be lynched.
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Lulu L. on Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:13 pm

Honestly, at deadline I had my doubts that Mirror Serena was mafia. Would mafia act like this if they are trying to win? As much as I like the methodical approach to scum hunting, sometimes there are these gut feelings that tell you not to lynch this person even though they act very scummy. Oh well, Mirror Serena didn't even say anything. I actually was kinda surprised by the inactivity near deadline; I always thought most people would come online then. This can be seen as a filler post but I'm just ranting about how lost we are at the moment.

Sidenote: See Nathaniel? The reason I had to type in a different style in the beginning of the game is to hide my identity. Now Aya had figured it out Sad (you should tell me if you see me on PS Smile
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Mrs. Grimm on Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:01 am

What's with the activity drop? We only have 1 more mislynch allowed and no one decides to show up to discuss targets?
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Wilma F. on Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:32 pm

Honestly between most people having gotten more active (except for myself as I currently have very little time) and Molly still just not explaining herself, being asked to expain herself and then just ignoring it I kind of want to lynch Molly right now, right now all she's doing is talk about how some day cemented Nathaniel as her scumread without actually giving any explanation why?????

Also Nathaniel, your list of everyone's reads has you talking about how I should not quote stuff? like what do you want me to do, do you want me to quote stuff so you know what I'm talking about or do you want me to just say "so I'm gonna talk about post 48 of Nathaniel's now have fun looking that up so this is what I wanna say about it" because I refrained from quoting things just for this post so you would possibly maybe read it.
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Molly Q. on Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:58 pm

what am I supposed to explain? I wasn't GOING to respond to Aya's reads but I guess I will now, but first, to nathaniel's post:

give me PROOF that my allegations of you aren't true. you claim they aren't, even though they clearly are. the allegations are as follows, for some people who DIDN'T READ THE GAME LOL



- your reads don't have content (they don't, just read them. they are like "neutral" or "I'm not really sure" or "agree with everyone else, even when" no one else has a distinct read
- you went inactive when the main argument wasn't about you. yes some of it was those two days but it was for more than two days
- you are incredibly, incredibly defensive

ok now aya's read against me, which I repeat I wasn't going to respond to but I guess Wilma wants me to?

"I've touched on her a bit in above reads, but I will go into more detail here. I'd like to go into detail on her issue with Nathaniel at the moment since she seems convinced he is scum. She accused him of being active day 1 to avoid being suspicious, and also suspect him for being defensive when he was getting pressured. Another serious issue she had with him was his inactivity streak from 3/10 to 3/15, accusing him of trying to stay under the radar, when previously she accused him of trying to do the same thing by being active. Which one is it? Also, she stated that he was inactive longer than he said he would be. He said he would be unable to post on 3/11 and 3/12, which proved true as he did not post during this time. He did not post on either 3/13 or 3/13 since it was night phase during that time and posting would have been in violation of the rules. He was then the second person to post the next day. I don't see where the problem is."

this paragraph is blatantly false. please read the game. Nathaniel was inactive for those two days but also MORE THAN THAT, and it was right after I started to scumread wilma instead. additionally I have not been tunneling nathaniel. he is just my top scumread on days 1 and 3/4, whereas wilma was on day 2. He still hasn't died because you guys are idiots and continue to lynch town, so I still lynch him. it's simple.

"Her issue with Wilma stems from a belief that she has a lack of content in her posts. I've covered in my Wilma read that she has had plenty of content recently and her seeming lack of such content made sense beforehand based on how she seems to be making her reads (she uses what people says to make reads on them, and most of her "contentless" posts are on day 1/early day 2)."

honestly this is true, her contentless posts were all early. that doesn't change my read on her because her posts recently haven't been that good contributions either lol. (in fact, she's been very inactive, which doesn't matter but that's not the point). check out her most recent post. it basically says:

WOW activity, molly explain yourself(????), says she wants to lynch me because... i have reasons for my lynches WOAH and then talks to nathaniel about how he said that she shouldn't quote stuff. if you call this quality content then I would be surprised.

"Molly, I'd like to say something directly to you at this point. In a post Wilma made, which you obviously saw since you responded to it, she asked you what "your idea of context" is and you never bothered to answer her. It's possible that you missed that part of the post like you missed Nathaniel's inactivity announcement but I'd find that hard to believe since it was right at the beginning of the "content" of her post. I can see that you sort of answered it in a roundabout way in your next post when referring to Guy and Lulu's reads, but I think Wilma wanted a more direct answer considering how she has mostly been ignored this game."


i did say I missed nathaniel's inactivity post. I forgot what page it's on but I said it. but he was inactive for more than that, and it's not the inactivity that matters, it's the fact that it was right when I decided to scumread wilma instead of him.

"Sorry this got to be such a long read, but I wanted to cover her two main scumreads so far since that is a majority of what her posts have been about so far. Leaning scum, but only because of her scumreads. Most of what she has said otherwise has been well thought out and despite stating otherwise it really feels like she is tunneling Nathaniel."

i've already explained why your perception that I am tunneling nathaniel is blatantly incorrect. he is simply my top scumread. if anything going against what other people are saying should be a town-y thing to do.

---

that is all for now. I will tolerate someone lynching me if they come up with a reason that's not bullshit (i.e. you can't say it's because I'm "tunneling nathaniel" or that "my reads are bad."
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Nathaniel E. on Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:45 pm

Yay when everyone's post is directed towards you and now you have to defend yourself, update your reads, and update the readlist. Mafia is more difficult than life itself

I'll defend myself first cause why not

- your reads don't have content (they don't, just read them. they are like "neutral" or "I'm not really sure" or "agree with everyone else, even when" no one else has a distinct read

Ok and your saying other people have reads that don't have any neutrality in them. Following people is not necessarily a scum thing but ok

Shut up with my inactivity shit im tired of it

What else am i supposed to do? Let you and your scum partner win? Or become defensive to prove that I am town? Think the second one is correct.

I appreciate people for trying to knock any common sense into that person, but like seriously "inactivity" is bogus...like what you want me to just leave the game to get subbed like Mrs. Grimm did? No, just because I decided not to post doesn't mean I'm scum it means I either didn't have something I wanted to say or was just lazy...

"and it's not the inactivity that matters"

So, you say you aren't tunneling. I am also your main and only scumread. So your saying that the fact you don't look at ANYONE ELSE = not tunneling. Hi Five

I mean if you looked at anyone else maybe me and other people wouldn't say its tunneling but like admit it, if I get lynched and then flip town you won't know what to do eh

So, I mean your points are utterly false (1. I'm defensive and thats bad [duh I sort of have to be when you lynch me with your first post everytime] and 2. My short strech of 'inactivity' which I have explained 20 times) and that's my reason for lynch Molly Q.

It's not a reason called 'tunneling Nathianel' or 'your reads are bad', in fact its a combo where you don't pay attention to anyone else and base your reads off my 'inactivity' and my 'defensiveness'.

Honestly though if Molly flips town then scum will tunnel me in lylo anyway so RiP it was a good try town Crying or Very sad
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Aya Y. on Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:57 pm

Molly Q. wrote:what am I supposed to explain? I wasn't GOING to respond to Aya's reads but I guess I will now

Why wouldn't you respond to the allegations of someone who sees you as scum?  Even if you think my reasons are incorrect at least explain why (which you do in your post but you apparently weren't going to).

Molly Q. wrote:(Aya note: this is Molly in regards to Nathaniel)
- your reads don't have content (they don't, just read them. they are like "neutral" or "I'm not really sure" or "agree with everyone else, even when" no one else has a distinct read
- you went inactive when the main argument wasn't about you. yes some of it was those two days but it was for more than two days
- you are incredibly, incredibly defensive

First off, you say his reads "don't have content".  I just looked through all his reads from day 1 to now and despite some iffy ones (like saying Wilma quotes too much for him to read her posts), he really only is neutral on a few people as opposed to the way you put it which makes it seem like he's null reading the whole game.  Maybe it would help if you explained to us what you mean by "content"?  I'm pretty sure this is at least the third time you've been asked.

Then, you repeatedly claim he was inactive.  I've went through his post history at least 3 times now.  The only time during day phase where he has gone more than a day without posting is during that 2 day inactivity period.  The only other times he didn't post for that long was during night phases.  If you're going to call him out for inactivity, please point out exactly where he was doing so.

You're accusing of being defensive after saying that you "don't see a scenario where he isn't scum".  How can he not be defensive towards you when you're convinced he is scum?  Is he supposed to just ignore that like you do, which doesn't lead to any more discussion on the topic?  That's the problem I have with the way you react to pressure.  Ignoring someone's read because you disagree with it doesn't make them wrong, it just makes you look scummy for not adressing it.

Molly Q. wrote:ok now aya's read against me, which I repeat I wasn't going to respond to but I guess Wilma wants me to?

(Aya note: here she quotes the part from my read of her that discussed Nathaniel's inactivity, and that he was only inactive on 3/11 and 3/12)

this paragraph is blatantly false. please read the game. Nathaniel was inactive for those two days but also MORE THAN THAT, and it was right after I started to scumread wilma instead.

Covered this earlier, please point out where else he was inactive for more than 24 hours.


Molly Q. wrote:additionally I have not been tunneling nathaniel. he is just my top scumread on days 1 and 3/4, whereas wilma was on day 2. He still hasn't died because you guys are idiots and continue to lynch town, so I still lynch him. it's simple.

He's been your top scumread for 75% of the game, and you say you're not tunneling?  Now obviously if you have a reason to suspect him then there's no problem with that, but I have yet to hear something from you that points to Nathaniel being scum that I can validate when looking through his posts.

Molly Q. wrote:that is all for now. I will tolerate someone lynching me if they come up with a reason that's not bullshit (i.e. you can't say it's because I'm "tunneling nathaniel" or that "my reads are bad."

I can say that you're tunneling Nathaniel and that your reads are bad because none of what you've said about Nathaniel (inactivity, unsure reads, no content) is valid enough to be considered a "good read", and since you're scumreading him without a valid reason for so long, I'd say that you're tunneling Nathaniel.

Also, if we're not allowed to lynch you for your reads or your lynch, then what are we allowed to lynch you for?  Your activity?  Or maybe we should lynch you because every time someone brings up something about what you said, you either ignore it or respond to it by saying practically the same thing but different wording "yeah he was inactive for those two days but it was MORE THAN THAT."

There are 2 days until deadline.  I don't know if Molly is scum, but the way she's treating the Nathaniel lynch  is unnatural and doesn't make much sense from the perspective of town.  If you have a valid reason to lynch someone I don't have much of a reason to oppose it, but I still don't see such a reason to lynch Nathaniel today.  (a valid read right now would be that I'm currently buddying with Nathaniel because that seems possible based on how I'm acting right now)
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Mrs. Grimm on Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:32 am

Molly Q. wrote:

- your reads don't have content (they don't, just read them. they are like "neutral" or "I'm not really sure" or "agree with everyone else, even when" no one else has a distinct read
- you are incredibly, incredibly defensive

To be honest, I completely agree with those 2 statements. You can't say 'Molly is tunneling Nathaniel' when everything she says about him makes perfect sense. Look at his posts. He turns extremely aggressive when anyone calls him out, which is either a sign of inexperience or scumminess.

Nathaniel E. wrote:Yay when everyone's post is directed towards you and now you have to defend yourself, update your reads, and update the readlist. Mafia is more difficult than life itself

Shut up with my inactivity shit im tired of it

So, you say you aren't tunneling. I am also your main and only scumread. So your saying that the fact you don't look at ANYONE ELSE = not tunneling. Hi Five

I mean if you looked at anyone else maybe me and other people wouldn't say its tunneling but like admit it, if I get lynched and then flip town you won't know what to do eh

Honestly though if Molly flips town then scum will tunnel me in lylo anyway so RiP it was a good try town Crying or Very sad

I hate this. He keeps telling Molly to 'look at someone else' when she gives plenty of good reasons why she's after him. Saying 'hey look at X instead of looking at what I'm doing that's completely scummy is not a valid defense. I don't know why it feels like Aya is protecting him when Molly, at least to me, is way more rational and makes more sense.
Also, the second red flag, he keeps saying 'if Molly flips town RIP me'. This 'if I predict she flips town before it happens and say that they're gonna lynch me, they won't lynch me' approach is just pathetic. Again, I just find that to be extremely full of shit.
As of right now, I find that Nathaniel is the mafia with a possible partnership with Aya since she's trying to save his ass from the Molly accusations. So unless Nathaniel provides a good answer this time without getting angry and defensive ('Shut up with my inactivity shit im tired of it'), I'm gonna stick to this lynch.
Lynch Nathaniel
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Aya Y. on Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:20 am

This is in response to Grimm's post above:

I can understand saying that Nathaniel is being super aggressive/defensive because he is, and that makes sense. If Molly was lynching him for valid reasons and he was acting in this manner in response, then I would have no reason to say that she is tunneling Nathaniel. The problem is that besides being defensive (a response to someone calling him practically confirmed scum in their eyes), I don't see a valid reason to scumread him.

The two reasons Molly gives (with which Grimm apparently agrees on at least one of them) are that he has contentless reads and was inactive for longer than stated. Molly has yet to point out another time when he was inactive other than the 2 day period he stated that he would be for. The contentless reads claim is not 100% false, but he has definitely been thorough with his reads when deciding on a lynch. He was unsure on certain reads early in the game on people with less than 5 posts, but you can look back and see that he analysed every post that Mirror Serena had made before deciding to lynch her.

So pretty much what I'm saying is that calling him defensive and lynching him because of that doesn't make sense if he's defending himself against invalid claims. Most of his outbursts that are seen as defensive are his responses to these claims (like the inactivity one). To me it looks like a townie trying as hard as he can to defend himself against reads that have either not been properly explained or are simply invalid.
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Nathaniel E. on Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:18 am

My Reads:
Mrs. Grimm(0)- Reads honestly don't make any sense and she could be scumbuddies with Molly (it would seem blantly obvious though). The general agreement with Molly and the fact Mrs. Grimm said Molly is Town because she is defensive defintely puts the red lights up for me. Scum/Possible Scumbuddy(s): Molly Q.

Molly Q.(0)- Again, can't gripe how I was inactivity for longer than how long I said I would be, and also can't find a reason how my posts are 'contentless'. Sure there is some filler, but the posts with good information are the posts you ignore. I'd like to think your trying to lead town to scum, but it seems like instead you are tunneling one person (me) with false evidence. Also if you don't think your tunneling then give me two good reads (Mrs. Grimm + Aya Y. is the best) that make logical sense. Scum/Possible Scumbuddy: Mrs. Grimm

Wilma F.(0)- Filler, and said she would talk and contribute before just leaving the game. However, the past three filler people were all town so I'm going to leave her at Neutral.

Lulu L.(0)- Quite defensive, which in itself isn't bad, but only got serious when there was a lynch on her. And as Molly said, with no pressure on her, she is literally nonexistent. Sure the posts are somewhat informative, but I really don't like the fact that she hasn't been here for Five Days. Leaning Scum/Possible Scumbuddy: Molly Q. (look at interactions)

Steveland W.(0)- Semi informative posts, and tries to help town. Maybe some streches of inactivity, but beyond that, some reasonable reads. Leaning Town

Aya Y.(0)- Finally came back and got serious for once. The readlist she gave was quite decent, with reasoning behind each verdict. And even though she is trying to attack Molly for bad reasoning, it could be because she is scum and knows who her scumbuddy is and wants to protect town to make her seem townish. On the other hand, maybe it's just town protecting town. Neutral

Yeah so I mean if you look at what I said, Lulu L. and Wilma F. have not been here for a good chunk of time...and Molly Q. ignores them. Maybe that's some decent reasoning for why I think she is scum. Also, be prepared for Molly to tunnel one of them for inactivity Cool
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Nathaniel E.

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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Nathaniel E. on Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:21 am

Mrs. Grimm wrote:
Molly Q. wrote:

- your reads don't have content (they don't, just read them. they are like "neutral" or "I'm not really sure" or "agree with everyone else, even when" no one else has a distinct read
- you are incredibly, incredibly defensive

To be honest, I completely agree with those 2 statements. You can't say 'Molly is tunneling Nathaniel' when everything she says about him makes perfect sense. Look at his posts. He turns extremely aggressive when anyone calls him out, which is either a sign of inexperience or scumminess.

Nathaniel E. wrote:Yay when everyone's post is directed towards you and now you have to defend yourself, update your reads, and update the readlist. Mafia is more difficult than life itself

Shut up with my inactivity shit im tired of it

So, you say you aren't tunneling. I am also your main and only scumread. So your saying that the fact you don't look at ANYONE ELSE = not tunneling. Hi Five

I mean if you looked at anyone else maybe me and other people wouldn't say its tunneling but like admit it, if I get lynched and then flip town you won't know what to do eh

Honestly though if Molly flips town then scum will tunnel me in lylo anyway so RiP it was a good try town Crying or Very sad

I hate this. He keeps telling Molly to 'look at someone else' when she gives plenty of good reasons why she's after him. Saying 'hey look at X instead of looking at what I'm doing that's completely scummy is not a valid defense. I don't know why it feels like Aya is protecting him when Molly, at least to me, is way more rational and makes more sense.
Also, the second red flag, he keeps saying 'if Molly flips town RIP me'. This 'if I predict she flips town before it happens and say that they're gonna lynch me, they won't lynch me' approach is just pathetic. Again, I just find that to be extremely full of shit.
As of right now, I find that Nathaniel is the mafia with a possible partnership with Aya since she's trying to save his ass from the Molly accusations. So unless Nathaniel provides a good answer this time without getting angry and defensive ('Shut up with my inactivity shit im tired of it'), I'm gonna stick to this lynch.
Lynch Nathaniel

"As of right now, I find that Nathaniel is the mafia with a possible partnership with Aya since she's trying to save his ass from the Molly accusations"

As of right now, I find that Mrs. Grimm is the mafia with a possible partnership with Molly since she's trying to agree with her ass on everything she accuses Nathaniel of. Yeah, tell me why your literally the only one who is agreeing with her, and tell me why you said Molly was town for being defensive. Then tell me why you aren't scum (with Molly). Oh wait, answer the first question and your good. Though you won't find a reasonable answer Shocked
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Molly Q. on Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:34 pm

besides the blatant omgus and attempt to take down someone who is being increasingly more commonly scumread, what would make you think that I would "blatantly buddy" with lulu and then we would be scumbuddies. That would honestly make no sense. Additionally I'm not trying to pick from the low-hanging fruit (aka mrs. grimm days 1-3) so why is that scummy? Why is scumreading the same person as me scummy?

and Aya, how is scumreading someone and lynching them unnatural? what am I supposed to do, change my read because you don't agree with me?

just some questions I'd like you to answer.
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Lulu L. on Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:42 pm

Nathaniel E. wrote:My Reads:
Mrs. Grimm(0)- Reads honestly don't make any sense and she could be scumbuddies with Molly (it would seem blantly obvious though). The general agreement with Molly and the fact Mrs. Grimm said Molly is Town because she is defensive defintely puts the red lights up for me. Scum/Possible Scumbuddy(s): Molly Q.

Molly Q.(0)- Again, can't gripe how I was inactivity for longer than how long I said I would be, and also can't find a reason how my posts are 'contentless'. Sure there is some filler, but the posts with good information are the posts you ignore. I'd like to think your trying to lead town to scum, but it seems like instead you are tunneling one person (me) with false evidence. Also if you don't think your tunneling then give me two good reads (Mrs. Grimm + Aya Y. is the best) that make logical sense. Scum/Possible Scumbuddy: Mrs. Grimm

Wilma F.(0)- Filler, and said she would talk and contribute before just leaving the game. However, the past three filler people were all town so I'm going to leave her at Neutral.

Lulu L.(0)- Quite defensive, which in itself isn't bad, but only got serious when there was a lynch on her. And as Molly said, with no pressure on her, she is literally nonexistent. Sure the posts are somewhat informative, but I really don't like the fact that she hasn't been here for Five Days. Leaning Scum/Possible Scumbuddy: Molly Q. (look at interactions)

Steveland W.(0)- Semi informative posts, and tries to help town. Maybe some streches of inactivity, but beyond that, some reasonable reads. Leaning Town

Aya Y.(0)- Finally came back and got serious for once. The readlist she gave was quite decent, with reasoning behind each verdict. And even though she is trying to attack Molly for bad reasoning, it could be because she is scum and knows who her scumbuddy is and wants to protect town to make her seem townish. On the other hand, maybe it's just town protecting town. Neutral

Yeah so I mean if you look at what I said, Lulu L. and Wilma F. have not been here for a good chunk of time...and Molly Q. ignores them. Maybe that's some decent reasoning for why I think she is scum. Also, be prepared for Molly to tunnel one of them for inactivity Cool

Uhhh... My latest post was on the 22nd of March. I am not sure how that is missing for 5 Days?
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Nathaniel E. on Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:55 pm

@Lulu L. my bad didn't see that post

However you said you would finish your readlist and that has been unfinished.

@Molly Q. you haven't given me your read on Mrs. Grimm and Aya Y.

This is also not omgus, as you lynch me for no good reason. When I point that out, you just ignore me. When I ask a question for you, you just ignore me.

Also I'd like to know who else is scumreading me aside from the possible and probable Mrs. Grimm + Molly Q. scum team. I have sufficent evidence that I can defintely see that being the case if anyone wants to ask I'll share the evidence with them.
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Nathaniel E. on Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:59 pm

And I won't answer your question(s) unless you do what I asked of you Exclamation
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Lulu L. on Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:19 pm

My read lists should be posted in approximately 16 hours+-, just to let you guys know. If anyone wants my opinion as of now, it is:

Steveland - Town
Wilma - Neutral
Molly - Neutral
Nathaniel - Neutral

I know that is a lot of neutral, but that is because I didn't analyze their posts yet. THIS IS NOT MY DEFINITE OPINION, AND SHOULD BE TAKEN WITH A GRAIN OF SALT. EVIDENCE AND SUPPORTED CLAIMS WILL COME WITH THE READ LISTS. THIS IS JUST FOR THOSE THAT ARE COMPLAINING THAT I'M TOO SLOW.
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Aya Y. on Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:05 pm

Molly Q. wrote:and Aya, how is scumreading someone and lynching them unnatural? what am I supposed to do, change my read because you don't agree with me?

just some questions I'd like you to answer.


The unnatural thing about it is that your scumread on him is based on things that are not valid.

Can you please point out the time frame where Nathaniel was inactive other than 3/11 and 3/12?

What do you mean by "contentless reads" in reference to Nathaniel?

just some questions I'd like you to answer.
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Steveland W. on Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:15 pm

I'd like to apoligize for not having said anything for a bit I'm currently a bit sick so I've been getting rest anyways I said I would do an updated readlist, there is something I want to get out of the way first, I'm gonna sort of seperate them into different posts, I want to make reads on 2 important people in this post (I want to make this post first since I find these 2 reads to be the most important)  which is why i said i would sort of seperate them, I'm going to update my current reads on Molly and Nathaniel as I believe it's very possible one of them will be lynched today from seeing whats happened so far, I'm going to start off with Molly and than I will do one for Nathaniel, I intend to look through all of their posts and try to see their perspectives like Mollys reasoning to lynch Nathaniel which i talked a bit about yesterday but I think it's worth going over again, I'm also going to focus a bit more on the posts that they made yesterday and today so far as they are more relevant so they'll hold more relevance to the current discussion

So lets stop keeping things waiting and get on with the readlist, as I said before I am going to start with Molly

Molly: So first off I'm gonna readdress the reasons she has stated for lynching him (Before I give her a read) in an attempt to look them over to consider things and see if its possible to show that these reasons are / arent correct one of the reasons why she is sring Nathaniel is his activity in a certain time period and looking back at it he was gone for 3/11 and 3/12 (Which he said he would be) then the DL happened until the 15th and he was posting on the 15th so I dont think theres a problem with that unless im mistaken somehow? Now another reason she says is that he's being defensive which is a true point but wouldnt it be more because of you sring him everyday, and going after him each day, but yes he is being defensive but i dont find this enough to be condemming for a lynch, now the final reason you had said is that his reads lack content, I mean he just gave a complete readlist with everything and I'd consider that content, but to be more relevant with your posts he did analyze peoples reads to look through them and give his own opinion on them, which I find as a bit of content

Anyways onto the overall Molly read so far, so the original read that I had given you was that I was a little but towards suspicious but mostly neutral overall, so I'm gonna be looking at the posts that youve given thus far from my initial readlist, so the first post that you had made since my initial readlist was that you were changing your read on me to more townlike (Gutread)so I dont think theres anything too suspicious about it, the next thing you posted was a response to my analysis of your reasons for lynching Nathaniel, so out of the 5 of these reasons that you had given right there at that point 5 of them were easily debateble to being useless or not, one of them you yourself had said that it was alright so why even include that? Another one was your noting of his activity but as I had previously stated there is no problem with his activity at that point so thats 3 explained so far, next he asked for you to clarify on something so that he could look at it but you say that it was a useless post although you had answered his question at the top of that page, finally his reads I'm pretty sure he gave a genuine readlist, and he never said that he agreed with you in any part of his reads. So from this I kinda see you as tunneling Nathaniel so it's a bit scummy IMO. So the next one you made was in response to Nathaniel about, so one of the things i found of interest is that you saw Nathaniels posts as more agreeing with people and him having neutral reads so I'm gonna address some of this, I also had a bunch of overall neutral reads and was really only pointing stuff out yet you dont say anything about that about my original readlist, He was also giving his own comment on other peoples readlists and such so i'd find it logical for him to be agreeing with some reads if they are similar to his, In that post you didnt really widen your perspective to me in consideration to my original readlist which I thought was me kinda just pointing stuff out and giving a bunch of people neutral reads. So next post was the first one for today, which ill ignore as it was just you lynching Nathaniel, the next post that you had made is defending yourself against Aya, and trying to give yourself a reason for lynching Nathaniel which I think is still incorrect, defending is alright, (In this so far I do mention Nathaniel a lot since a good variety of her posts mention Nathaniel) Honestly i feel as though youve been tunneling Nathaniel and I still can't agree with your reasons for lynching him, and I cannot see good reasoning to either, even from looking from your perspective I still think its a bit shaky to only lynch him (You did lynch Wilma on Day 2 I know that) So im leaning towards scum for you since as I said before I think that it's apparent to me that youre tunneling Nathaniel, and even if you said you werent tunneling you dont have much reasoning to do so so for Molly I think she's scummy in this case

Next my read for Nathaniel I'm mostly going to be focusing once again on the posts made more recently so honestly i've been reading through a bit, and you do quote things a lot er well pretty often but you refer back to posts of others and bring up information people have given before hand, and you also analyze peoples reads which I think is good, you also ask clarifying questions which I find helpful since you make people clarify what they mean or what they say so then they'd give better information, you did mention you have some proof of Molly + Grimm could u please show it, honestly people have said youve been defensive which you have been but it's justifiable since youve been lynched every day, and I could see myself doing that tbh, honestly this is probably mostly a repeat of what I said in my original readlist I still TR you, in my eyes you had a good reason to plurshift to mirror serena being that a lot of what she did say was scummy

Honestly I find it possible that Molly or Nathaniel is scum (Im obvs leaning more towards Molly) but i think 1 is scum 1 is town is a most likely scenario but town v town is also possible
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by Aya Y. on Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:22 pm

Steveland, just a small nitpick thing. Would it be possible for you to separate your thoughts into a few more paragraphs? You post these huge walls of text, which I have no issue with, but when you go on for so long without a pause I tend to get lost while reading and sometimes I have trouble understanding what you're saying on the first read through.
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by ajhockeystar on Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:38 pm

Votecount 4.2
******************************

Nathaniel E.(2)- Molly Q., Mrs. Grimm
Molly Q.(1)- Nathaniel E.
Mrs. Grimm(0)-
Wilma F.(0)-
Lulu L.(0)-
Steveland W.(0)-
Aya Y.(0)-
Not Voting(4)- Aya Y., Lulu L., Wilma F., Steveland W.
******************************
There are 7 alive so it takes 4 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Saturday the 25th at 9pm EST.

Nathaniel E. was lynched.

he was the...:
Vanilla Townie

Night 4 Commence! Deadline is the 26th at 9pm EST.
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

Post by ajhockeystar on Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:09 pm

omfg I'm so bad, I thought today was Saturday, stupid March break -.- Hopefully this didn't change things too much... x.x
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Re: Game 28: Guess Who?

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