Game 15: Modified Execution

*sigh* AJ, could you notify The Gentlemen? We can't really move on without getting a clear read on him.

Numaji O. wrote:Damn it Morita, you played too safe. (Although The Instructor flipping town does mean i am a little bit more confident with my scumhunting but I still have no clue who the mafia are). I mean I guess the good thing about The Instructor down is now town isn't lead astray....hopefully, but I did warn that shooting him would put us in a pretty bad position in terms of ratio. (How did I warn? Well, there was a post I made about shooting him and since I was pretty sure he was town I said the good things and bad things of shooting him.)

Just saying, do you think its the fact the mafia in the other game are bad or the town in this game are bad?

So... you wanted him to play risky and shoot TG who hasnt had time to defend himself? Or maybe someone who seemed somewhat townie to him at the time. Honestly, TI was the prime target for most of us if we had the gun. Either way, if we shot a townie we'd have this same ratio, and honestly with everything I have begun to doubt some of my reads. Now its time to be more ballsy with who we shoot imo... 3v5 But yesterday probably was a better time to be ballsy.

The first scum death seems like it was luck or bussing imo. Zack was actually a little surprising though. Imo its their good town+our bad town+their luck+our good mafia+their bad mafia

Jack S. wrote:unlucky morita, did not expect that here. honestly I think I'm corrupted today. must be one of the only people here who hasn't shot yet, and due to me just coming back again with like a huge level of info etc that a lot of you have commented on, I think mafia may be thinking that I'm most likely one of the best options for corruption. if anyone is willing to comment on corruption stuff feel free, I've just been thinking that since yesterday. victoria and kuroyo, could you put together a read list again if at all possible with your thoughts and views etc? we didn't really get anywhere with that and I think it would be beneficial for us. will check back later and make a post if I get a chance, we really need to get into gear guys and shoot scum.

umm theres more than just you who havnt shot... and theres still a chance they corrupted me shak or morita. Let's go more in depth about possible corruption targets later.

Numaji O. wrote:I am so sorry guys I have been so busy i literally can't keep a clean mind to think about this game. Today I had a spanish writing exam and tomorrow i have an english speaking and listening exam so hopefully and I mean HOPEFULLY I can be of some use tomorrow after school.

Anyway Jack I think this corruption topic should be addressed in depth later on today because it has become insanely difficult to predict now as I have mentioned before. But I don't want this to affect what is more important, and that is finding mafia.

In terms of reads, we need to think of the bigger picture. Everybody who we thought was scum is turning  town (well only the instructor and luka but this is still pretty big) meaning we are doing something wrong. I think what we are doing wrong is lowering ourselves down to the little things like fillering and, well, whatever the hell The Instructor was doing. We are overlooking what everyone else is doing. That sentence didnt make any sense coz I cant really put what i am trying to think into words but later I will try and clarify myself and also think about how we are gonna gear up.

Numaji O. wrote:I think what I was trying to say was that we cant just keep going on about fillering and stuff. I mean we sorta just wasted a whole day on Kuroyo yesterday. Yes fillering is scummy, but what is the point talking about it, its not gonna change the fact she is fillering. If you wanted her to start talking, it doesnt take a whole day to convince her.

I get what you are saying. Like I stated earlier I am seriously questioning my reads now. (I literally have no idea whos scum anymore after the TI flip) However i think they also looked at filler and lurkiness too. I wonder how different this game would have played out if Shakuji had shot the mafia instead of Luka.

Victoria F. wrote:OK then. Reads.
I'd just like to start off by saying that I can't say anything about The Gentleman until he says something. Obviously I can't ignore the original guy, but I need the sub to at least say something.

As towny and active as Shakuji came off as, I could easily believe that he's just a really good mafia player. He writes really detailed posts and the such, but a lot of the stuff he says is just agreeing with other people.
His activity also dwindled a bit, but then he came back with massive posts to make up for it.

Kuroyo has a lot of filler posts and didn't exactly give the best reads in the world, but she did say that she would answer any questions, and she's also said that she'll try and make her posts have more meaning to them.

Zane gets into fights a lot, but in many ways, that's so much more helpful than anything else. It helps us to get reads on people. Zane also picked up ever since he figured out that his posts were vanishing, and has helped out town a lot, discussion wise. Him shooting a towny may not have benefited town directly, but he gave us a good enough reason.

Numaji starts conversations a lot, and he can be argumental, just like Zane, but there's something iffy about Numaji. I can't my finger on why, but I'm just so certain that he's scum. I haven't really been able to shake this feeling, but since I haven't been able to prove anything, or find a reason as to why, I've just ignored it. But I still feel that way.

Jack seems to be very against Kuroyo. He also vanished, lurked for a bit, and then came back with large posts. Lynched Numaji day 1. There's also a weird constant agreement and support between Jack and Numaji.

Morita's picked up in later days. Active a lot, says a lot. He's pretty focused on getting The Gentleman to post, but I don't blame him, honestly.

I'm currently seeing Numaji and Jack as a scum team. Who the third member is, I'm not yet sure. If I were to have one of them shot, I'd say it'd be better to shoot Jack. Jack and Numaji back up each others' posts, and both see each other as very town. If they are a scum team, they've done really well to stay under the radar.

To b honest I tried starting Zane vs Kuroyo, but it didnt really work well lol. Hoestly Jack is a slight town lean for me... (which must mean he's scum :p) honestly i know you've been saying numaji is weird for a while now (since #ZanevsNumaji broke out) but you never fully explained why. Look back to then and get us your reason.

Kuroyo C. wrote:Ok, I don't really care what you think about my reads tbh. "Oh Kuroyo didn't make their reads specific, they're definetly scum" No. Like I said before, i'll keep my reads the way I want them. And here they go. (I do tend to get defensive at little stuff, so sorry about that)

Reads:

Morita- Pretty Townie. He hasn't really begged for the gun or argued like others. I don't see a major scum read coming from him. He may have shot The Instructor who flipped town, but tbh I probably might have done the same.

Zane- Neutral/Ok atm for me. ^Like that Victoria said he does start arguements (Zane vs Numaji, Zane vs Instructor) but that could mean anything. Though when he talks it's mainly simple and straight forward.

Victoria- Still townie read that has been decreasing though. I can't explain why but I do now see a possibility where you could be mafia. Maybe that's just because there are less players. Anyways last day I felt you were corrupted now I doubt that mafia corrupted you today.

Shakuji- Possible bored villy/Scum. Idk what to think of you. You were first to get a gun but then shot a townie. Probably doesn't mean anything or bored villy  but either way i'd like to see more from you.

Gentleman- Ayee man wanna speak up?

Jack- Neutral read coming from you. Ahh, you've stayed pretty silent for a while and now you're one of the most active players. One thing I've noticed is your urge for town to think i'm scummy. Idk what this means but i'd like it to stop :/.

My favorite lines are stated again... this time by Kuroyo. "I can't explain why..." Well how about trying to exxplain it more thna just saying "oh there's less people." This actually goes to Victoria too. I want to see you try to explain your views, with evidence. I dont want any "gut feelings".

Also I'd like to point out the general wishy-washy nature of her reads.

Kuroyo C. wrote:Ugh missed Numaji

Numaji: Townie may be heading downhill,  Just like Victoria atm except you've had the gun and has also like Shakuji shot a townie. Can't blame you since of course every person who has had the gun has shot a Villy.

Kuroyo hit herself in her confusion. You are confusing Numa with either me or morita, and im leaning more to me on that one.

Victoria F. wrote:

Numaji O. wrote:Victoria there must have been SOMETHING that makes you feel that I am scum.

I'm sure that there is, and that I just forgot what it was or couldn't put it into words.
But, the feeling has stuck. I seriously have no clue where it came from, but it's with me. Until I can give a genuine reason though, I won't act upon it unless necessary.

You may want to try and clue us into your reasoning. It will help shooter make better decisions in the future.

Jack S. wrote:thank you guys, that really helps get a pov. kuroyo, I had no problem with the first reads other than the bloody percentages and nothing else. you weren't really explaining them in the first place like you did here and albeit you did say we could ask questions, its still a bit iffy. anyway, thank you for that. also about that yesterday with me apparently focusing on you, it was personally like 3 posts that I brought it up in, and I personally just picked to have a look at that myself. you're on my list of highly likely people on a scum team so I may as well have a look and be able to have a more solid read. also to you folks saying about the focus on filler was a bit dumb, bear in mind that she had pretty much been doing this for about the whole game up until I mentioned it and then she said 'oh I'll stop that then'. if you're noticed fillering I think it's a bit bloody obvious that you're gonna stop yourself and start to give a bit of new and useful content. the fact that she fillered isn't redundant, it's right then set in stone.

imma put together a new read list probably tomorrow when we have some more stuff to run on here. probably not as huge as my last one, but still detailed enough based on the past things between those too. will give some further comments on the reads tomorrow I guess.

(also I did give reasons and notice for my activity multiple times kuroyo, im sorry if that effects your view or that I would have been active if not for the fact I wasn't at home or in my country.)

Actually I believe I mentioned her filler bfore you did... Seriously is no one noticing what I am saying. Gods! Although you can easily prevnt fillering... Im tired

Shakuji L. wrote:

Kuroyo C. wrote:Shakuji- Possible bored villy/Scum. Idk what to think of you. You were first to get a gun but then shot a townie. Probably doesn't mean anything or bored villy  but either way i'd like to see more from you.

I'm neither bored villy nor scum. I'm a villy that's trying to figure out the game behind the scenes. I make giant posts about things every now and again that summarize my thoughts on the game based on everyone else's posts, I make short posts asking for information to try and see where people's heads are at, and I answer people's questions about why I've done this or posted that in the game so far.

And so far, I'm thinking Kuroyo is still possible scum, which leaves The Gentleman as a possible PoE partner and the third partner is TBD because Numaji & Victoria have been pretty town from D1, Morita has been giving reads/starting up conversations/asking for clarification on stuff so he's got that going for him at least (he's also been hinting in every read that there's something off about my play, so what is it lol), and Zane & Jack were pretty non-existent d1 then came out guns blazing with content on days 2 and 3 respectively. All 5 of Numaji, Victoria, Morita, Zane, and Jack have shown their townie-ness throughout the past 3 days, though some have dropped off as others have stepped up...

tl;dr
I'll come up with possible scum teams later in the day, after everyone has talked some more (hint hint nudge nudge The Gentleman)

Who specificaly have dropped off?

[quote="Kuroyo C."]

Shakuji L. wrote:

Kuroyo C. wrote:Shakuji- Possible bored villy/Scum. Idk what to think of you. You were first to get a gun but then shot a townie. Probably doesn't mean anything or bored villy  but either way i'd like to see more from you.

I'm neither bored villy nor scum. I'm a villy that's trying to figure out the game behind the scenes. I make giant posts about things every now and again that summarize my thoughts on the game based on everyone else's posts, I make short posts asking for information to try and see where people's heads are at, and I answer people's questions about why I've done this or posted that in the game so far.

And so far, I'm thinking Kuroyo is still possible scum, which leaves The Gentleman as a possible PoE partner and the third partner is TBD because Numaji & Victoria have been pretty town from D1, Morita has been giving reads/starting up conversations/asking for clarification on stuff so he's got that going for him at least (he's also been hinting in every read that there's something off about my play, so what is it lol), and Zane & Jack were pretty non-existent d1 then came out guns blazing with content on days 2 and 3 respectively. All 5 of Numaji, Victoria, Morita, Zane, and Jack have shown their townie-ness throughout the past 3 days, though some have dropped off as others have stepped up...

tl;dr
I'll come up with possible scum teams later in the day, after everyone has talked some more (hint hint nudge nudge The Gentleman)

Shakuji L. wrote:

Kuroyo C. wrote:

Shakuji L. wrote:

Kuroyo C. wrote:Shakuji- Possible bored villy/Scum. Idk what to think of you. You were first to get a gun but then shot a townie. Probably doesn't mean anything or bored villy  but either way i'd like to see more from you.

I'm neither bored villy nor scum. I'm a villy that's trying to figure out the game behind the scenes. I make giant posts about things every now and again that summarize my thoughts on the game based on everyone else's posts, I make short posts asking for information to try and see where people's heads are at, and I answer people's questions about why I've done this or posted that in the game so far.

And so far, I'm thinking Kuroyo is still possible scum, which leaves The Gentleman as a possible PoE partner and the third partner is TBD because Numaji & Victoria have been pretty town from D1, Morita has been giving reads/starting up conversations/asking for clarification on stuff so he's got that going for him at least (he's also been hinting in every read that there's something off about my play, so what is it lol), and Zane & Jack were pretty non-existent d1 then came out guns blazing with content on days 2 and 3 respectively. All 5 of Numaji, Victoria, Morita, Zane, and Jack have shown their townie-ness throughout the past 3 days, though some have dropped off as others have stepped up...

tl;dr
I'll come up with possible scum teams later in the day, after everyone has talked some more (hint hint nudge nudge The Gentleman)

Please explain why. "I think Kuroyo is possible scum which leaves--" you literally just said i'm scum with absolutely no reason to back it up. Like I said, i'm p defensive so if you could make it clearer on why you suspect me, that'd be nice.

You're possible scum because:
1) You're PoE scum in the sense that I haven't gotten a single townie read from you in the past 3 days of play
2) You have been fillering a lot Days 1 & 2, and when I pointed that out, Zane flipped his read on you, and Jack jumped on you as well.
3) Your reads have been lack luster so far, and most of them are neutral reads.
4) You, along with The Gentleman, can be a part of every scum team (though not necessarily together), I think.

Shakuji made some really good points here... although the first part is more of a meta arguement imo

Kuroyo C. wrote:

Shakuji L. wrote:

Kuroyo C. wrote:

Shakuji L. wrote:

Kuroyo C. wrote:Shakuji- Possible bored villy/Scum. Idk what to think of you. You were first to get a gun but then shot a townie. Probably doesn't mean anything or bored villy  but either way i'd like to see more from you.

I'm neither bored villy nor scum. I'm a villy that's trying to figure out the game behind the scenes. I make giant posts about things every now and again that summarize my thoughts on the game based on everyone else's posts, I make short posts asking for information to try and see where people's heads are at, and I answer people's questions about why I've done this or posted that in the game so far.

And so far, I'm thinking Kuroyo is still possible scum, which leaves The Gentleman as a possible PoE partner and the third partner is TBD because Numaji & Victoria have been pretty town from D1, Morita has been giving reads/starting up conversations/asking for clarification on stuff so he's got that going for him at least (he's also been hinting in every read that there's something off about my play, so what is it lol), and Zane & Jack were pretty non-existent d1 then came out guns blazing with content on days 2 and 3 respectively. All 5 of Numaji, Victoria, Morita, Zane, and Jack have shown their townie-ness throughout the past 3 days, though some have dropped off as others have stepped up...

tl;dr
I'll come up with possible scum teams later in the day, after everyone has talked some more (hint hint nudge nudge The Gentleman)

Please explain why. "I think Kuroyo is possible scum which leaves--" you literally just said i'm scum with absolutely no reason to back it up. Like I said, i'm p defensive so if you could make it clearer on why you suspect me, that'd be nice.

You're possible scum because:
1) You're PoE scum in the sense that I haven't gotten a single townie read from you in the past 3 days of play
2) You have been fillering a lot Days 1 & 2, and when I pointed that out, Zane flipped his read on you, and Jack jumped on you as well.
3) Your reads have been lack luster so far, and most of them are neutral reads.
4) You, along with The Gentleman, can be a part of every scum team (though not necessarily together), I think.

For Number 1: Mk, I don't see how that's my fault we all have our reads I guess I should respect that one.

For Both 2 and 3: Umm yeah i'm p sure that Jack S. has said those exact things, please get original reads before just copying someone else.

For Number 4: Me and The Gentleman could be a possible scum team. Ok, another one of your suspicions, I guess I respect that. But before wildly calling out players how about we give this The Gentleman a chance?

um did you not read what he said... Seriously you dont read shit. How do you expect us to think of you as town when you dont look over evry detail said. You IGNORE what we say. Like how the fuck does that make sense. I am angry. You keep pushing what I say to the curve and then you pushed this to the curve...

Kuroyo. you are either scum or a horrible player at this game. You ignore what we say and focus on your own ideas. You are unwilling to adapt your reads and change your mind. your reads are pretty bad and you dont defend yorself well. I'd back this up more but one you prob will ignore this because its two long and two im tired as all hell

Kuroyo is either scum or a very stressed townie.
1)She is scum but doesn't know what to say in her defense.
2) she could trying to tell us something but doesn't know how to say it without false accusations.

I agree with Zane when he says she reads what we say but doesn't address every point we make.


I'll post my reads in a few hours.

>two long... lololol yeah we can tell you are VERY tired lol.

Well I guess if morita thought that he was most likely mafia then I guess its fine. It's just I wouldnt have coz i thought he was town so I would have thought about who really is mafia. Oh well (replying to Zane replying to me about my comment to Morita). Also I actually predicted that Zack was mafia...so why can I get mafia there but not here

I think mafia would have been psychologically weakened as well as weakened in number of brains, so yeah we never realised how important the first day shot was, to top it off it was difficult af to get it right so really the game is determined slightly by luck. I call HAX!

Yeah i have had that before. Its like when someone else says something you have already said and they get the credit for it and you are just like....m8.....

People who dropped off in my opinion are probably me and Victoria. But lets see what shakuji thinks.

Kuroyo if someone is calling you scum for something that has already been stated, chances are you havent defended yourself well. So i dont think yoi should comment on the originality of the reason. Instead how about you prove to everyone else that you can be productive?

@Numaji, me too. I PM'ed AJ before Zack died asking if he was scum.
I guess its easier to tell when you have nothing to lose if you're wrong :/

@ Zane: Mostly Numaji has dropped off, as has Victoria to some extent, though it's all just activity/inquiry based from my point of view (And I can't knock them either because they post more than me regardless, I think). They both have still been answering questions that related to them or were asked of them, so that's a plus.

Numaji was always fairly aggressive, even day 1. But he also started up fairly valid points, and questioned people if he felt it needed to be done. He talked a lot about "thinking through the night" which means nothing, reads wise, I just typed it so that I can analyse everything.
I think it started when he was targeting Zane. I didn't think "Oh man, this guy must be scum", but I kept an eye on him. He then started to say stuff about AJ trolling. Once again, means nothing reads wise, but... It just seems like a strange thing to say. I genuinely feel like AJ wouldn't troll, because it would affect the outcome of the game. Only now am I looking back on it and seeing that that could potentially be Numaji defending Zane although if you guys are a scum team, then well done. Seriously.
His theory about one mafia being inactive could also be a potential scum thing, but I don't think it is. Like, you're more likely to be seen as scum if you seem to have knowledge of them, so it could be a double play as scum, to seem like an obvious scum, which would then make you seem more town because surely no scum would do that. I wouldn't have said that otherwise, but Numaji's all about the mind games. That one just seems a bit too far fetched though.
He asked Shakuji a couple questions starting Day 2, but Shakuji answered them well enough that Numaji felt no real need to pester him more. Looking at that, it makes my wonder why Zane kept getting attacked. I guess that could be explained by the fact that both Numaji and Zane are hot headed, and so they were just annoying each other more and more, whereas Shakuji answered quite calmly, so Numaji felt no need to retaliate.
Although actually... The start of Numaji v Zane is quite agressive from Numaji with really only the reason that Zane's posts were disappearing. I don't know if Numaji was just trying to get Zane to talk, or what.
He really flipped out when I said that I thought he might be scum, summing up Zane V Numaji as "him having a scumread on Zane, and wanting to talk to him about it".
I think that what seriously kept my idea that he was scum was the threat he gave me.
"Oh yeah, I actually thought of a good mafia tactic at night 1. You see how there are thesr people that are pretty townie looking? Well if you applied pressure to them slowly and carefully, lets say you do get a gun then you can shoot the townie guys and not get read as scum by people as much to make such decision. For me, victoria, you have proved to be a great townie so i seriously doubt you are doing this. Just be aware of others who will..."
I'm still not entirely sure what it even means, but it just came across as really threatening. He then denied that it was a threat. If that's not a threat, I have no idea what it is. He then quickly dropped the subject. I find it interesting to note that he didn't try to fight me.
Later on, Zane brought the "unsettling posts" up, and Numaji understood what I meant by nicest threat, and then said it wasn't a threat. Could be a cover up, could just be that he's a naturally threatening person.
Later on he said that Morita was jumpy for defending himself. Which was... Basically... What Numaji was doing against me. At least Morita wasn't making threats.
He then says more about his aggressiveness, and how he's only aggressive if he doesn't get all the information he wanted.
Later on he said "No I am explaining MY point of view, it is up to town to decide for themselves. I am not gonna make up everyones mind...."
Like, I get what he's trying to say here. He's trying to say that he's not in control, or whatever, but some of his word choice is iffy. Like, it's supposed to be all of town working together, you should be trying to convince people of things. Also, the way he says "it is up to town to decide for themselves" just makes it sound like he excludes himself from the "town" list... But even if he's mafia, I'm pretty sure Numaji's a smart enough player to catch something like that.
Then there's some more Numaji V Zane. Then there's a weird bit where Numaji and Jack suspect each other, while in the present time they both think of each other as towny townies.
Later on, Numaji wants to hear from Morita about why he thinks Shakuji's a bit shady, because Numaji has some ideas. He then says that it's because Shakuji doesn't talk too much, but hides behind good explanations to avoid a scumslip.
Yes.
He hides behind good explanations. Heaven forbid. How does saying a lot of stuff with good explanations mean he's hiding behind a scumslip?
Numaji V Zane just sort of stopped, but Numaji gave a reason for it.
"Its just I dont want this argument to keep going. We can restart it later but for now we have to focus on the rest of town since we cant let them just ride the game. Although i do still thinl Zane is kinda scummy but I wouldnt shoot him. I would have to be 100% certain with my read to shoot him and currently it isnt. Even if he was mafia, I still would keep him in the game because he has proven that he is a great benefit to town and one less active and productive person harms town."
I give that exact same reason as to why we shouldn't shoot Numaji later on, just saying.*

Then Numaji's mind game theory gets even more real. Because mafia know that we're thinking about what they think we're thinking about, they think even more carefully about what we're going to be thinking about next day when choosing a corruption target.
Part of me wonders if he made that intentionally confusing so that people just say "Yeah, good point." without truly understanding it.
He then said he trusts Morita, even though Morita said he might shoot him. Could be a towny play, could be a really gutsy mafia play, could be a scumteam, although I don't think they're a scumteam. But Numaji knows a lot about mind games, so it'd be really for him to pull of something like that, I reckon.
Numaji then aggressively targets me for my explanation regarding a hypothetical world, where I say exactly what he said earlier on about shooting Zane.*
It's around here that Numaji starts thinking that Jack has "quite solid" "town contributions".
He says some more stuff about making "ballzy" plays, and makes another statement about the mafia thinking about what we think they're thinking about us thinking.
And, that's pretty much it.
Shortened version: Numaji's a more confusing player than he seems, and he talks about mafia corruption a lot, usually in confusing ways so that it seems like he's helping out, but I don't think it really accomplishes much. He can be aggressive when he doesn't need to be, and I'm not going to forget that threat he made, nor his hypocrisy when I was talking about my hypothetical world. There we go, that is my analysis on Numaji.

Ok Victoria, my reply to you is gonna come up a bit later than I anticipated. I am sorry Zane, Morita, The Instructor and everyone else who I doubted about the disappearing posts thing. I am pissed now and when I calm down, I am gonna retype my reply to you.

Victoria F. wrote:Numaji was always fairly aggressive, even day 1. But he also started up fairly valid points, and questioned people if he felt it needed to be done. He talked a lot about "thinking through the night" which means nothing, reads wise, I just typed it so that I can analyse everything.
I think it started when he was targeting Zane. I didn't think "Oh man, this guy must be scum", but I kept an eye on him. He then started to say stuff about AJ trolling. Once again, means nothing reads wise, but... It just seems like a strange thing to say. I genuinely feel like AJ wouldn't troll, because it would affect the outcome of the game. Only now am I looking back on it and seeing that that could potentially be Numaji defending Zane although if you guys are a scum team, then well done. Seriously.
His theory about one mafia being inactive could also be a potential scum thing, but I don't think it is. Like, you're more likely to be seen as scum if you seem to have knowledge of them, so it could be a double play as scum, to seem like an obvious scum, which would then make you seem more town because surely no scum would do that. I wouldn't have said that otherwise, but Numaji's all about the mind games. That one just seems a bit too far fetched though.
He asked Shakuji a couple questions starting Day 2, but Shakuji answered them well enough that Numaji felt no real need to pester him more. Looking at that, it makes my wonder why Zane kept getting attacked. I guess that could be explained by the fact that both Numaji and Zane are hot headed, and so they were just annoying each other more and more, whereas Shakuji answered quite calmly, so Numaji felt no need to retaliate.
Although actually... The start of Numaji v Zane is quite agressive from Numaji with really only the reason that Zane's posts were disappearing. I don't know if Numaji was just trying to get Zane to talk, or what.
He really flipped out when I said that I thought he might be scum, summing up Zane V Numaji as "him having a scumread on Zane, and wanting to talk to him about it".
I think that what seriously kept my idea that he was scum was the threat he gave me.
"Oh yeah, I actually thought of a good mafia tactic at night 1. You see how there are thesr people that are pretty townie looking? Well if you applied pressure to them slowly and carefully, lets say you do get a gun then you can shoot the townie guys and not get read as scum by people as much to make such decision. For me, victoria, you have proved to be a great townie so i seriously doubt you are doing this. Just be aware of others who will..."
I'm still not entirely sure what it even means, but it just came across as really threatening. He then denied that it was a threat. If that's not a threat, I have no idea what it is. He then quickly dropped the subject. I find it interesting to note that he didn't try to fight me.
Later on, Zane brought the "unsettling posts" up, and Numaji understood what I meant by nicest threat, and then said it wasn't a threat. Could be a cover up, could just be that he's a naturally threatening person.
Later on he said that Morita was jumpy for defending himself. Which was... Basically... What Numaji was doing against me. At least Morita wasn't making threats.
He then says more about his aggressiveness, and how he's only aggressive if he doesn't get all the information he wanted.
Later on he said "No I am explaining MY point of view, it is up to town to decide for themselves. I am not gonna make up everyones mind...."
Like, I get what he's trying to say here. He's trying to say that he's not in control, or whatever, but some of his word choice is iffy. Like, it's supposed to be all of town working together, you should be trying to convince people of things. Also, the way he says "it is up to town to decide for themselves" just makes it sound like he excludes himself from the "town" list... But even if he's mafia, I'm pretty sure Numaji's a smart enough player to catch something like that.
Then there's some more Numaji V Zane. Then there's a weird bit where Numaji and Jack suspect each other, while in the present time they both think of each other as towny townies.
Later on, Numaji wants to hear from Morita about why he thinks Shakuji's a bit shady, because Numaji has some ideas. He then says that it's because Shakuji doesn't talk too much, but hides behind good explanations to avoid a scumslip.
Yes.
He hides behind good explanations. Heaven forbid. How does saying a lot of stuff with good explanations mean he's hiding behind a scumslip?
Numaji V Zane just sort of stopped, but Numaji gave a reason for it.
"Its just I dont want this argument to keep going. We can restart it later but for now we have to focus on the rest of town since we cant let them just ride the game. Although i do still thinl Zane is kinda scummy but I wouldnt shoot him. I would have to be 100% certain with my read to shoot him and currently it isnt. Even if he was mafia, I still would keep him in the game because he has proven that he is a great benefit to town and one less active and productive person harms town."
I give that exact same reason as to why we shouldn't shoot Numaji later on, just saying.*

Then Numaji's mind game theory gets even more real. Because mafia know that we're thinking about what they think we're thinking about, they think even more carefully about what we're going to be thinking about next day when choosing a corruption target.
Part of me wonders if he made that intentionally confusing so that people just say "Yeah, good point." without truly understanding it.
He then said he trusts Morita, even though Morita said he might shoot him. Could be a towny play, could be a really gutsy mafia play, could be a scumteam, although I don't think they're a scumteam. But Numaji knows a lot about mind games, so it'd be really for him to pull of something like that, I reckon.
Numaji then aggressively targets me for my explanation regarding a hypothetical world, where I say exactly what he said earlier on about shooting Zane.*
It's around here that Numaji starts thinking that Jack has "quite solid" "town contributions".
He says some more stuff about making "ballzy" plays, and makes another statement about the mafia thinking about what we think they're thinking about us thinking.
And, that's pretty much it.
Shortened version: Numaji's a more confusing player than he seems, and he talks about mafia corruption a lot, usually in confusing ways so that it seems like he's helping out, but I don't think it really accomplishes much. He can be aggressive when he doesn't need to be, and I'm not going to forget that threat he made, nor his hypocrisy when I was talking about my hypothetical world. There we go, that is my analysis on Numaji.

So you do have reasons that isnt gut feeling -_- why have u been hiding it?

Anyway so Day 1, i wasnt really being aggressive, i just simply disagreed with your statement and argued against it. About the AJ trolling thing, i was joking. I know he wouldn't troll (but i swear he has in the past but not game changing stuff).

I was getting Zane to talk coz at the time i thought this disappearing post thing was so that he had an excuse not to talk. I only flipped out when i thought Zane was implying that i was stupid, so i got angry. I said that I get aggressive when people say silly stuff/say stuff that is easily countered; not when i dont get enough info. I dont really like the way that you are making stuff up now :/ Ok so Zane is calling me scum for trying to convince people and you are calling me scum for not trying to....ok? Also by "town" i meant every person in town.

Like I said, the prediction or "idea" that I said about shakuji was pretty meaningless since it was backed up by such little evidence. When I asked morita about why he thought Shakuji migjt be scummy I had a prediction of why he did. So he explained his point of view but he also asked for what i thought. So i said it but like i said it didnt mean anything and that I doubt that it was true.

I would be upset and annoyed if I found out people are just reading my posts without understanding. It just makes me think, why am i wasting my time? Since you brougjt it up, i am guessing you dont understand it either... re-read it if you need to but seriously its a big mistake to not bother to understand any post in the game.

Uhhh I certainly wasnt being aggressive there. Like now you are saying that if you say "no" to something you disagree about, you are being aggressive.

I wasnt trying to be confusing, if i am confusing you, then I am sorry and please TELL ME on what you are confused about so i can clarify... i know that Victoria is confused about something so i am expecting one from you too.... But yeah now that i know your definition of "aggressive" you are gonna just have to accept it as my way to get info from other people. I thought "aggressive" was where I was basically shouting at zane lol. I seriously didnt mean that thing as a threat and I wasnt being a hypocrite at all.... the threat thing you just gotta believe me on since i dont know how i am meant to prove it.

Numaji O. wrote:

ajhockeystar wrote:

The Instructor wrote:Vote Morita

even though he said he might shoot me, i trust him the most with the gun atm.

aj can we get some subs, jack s and the gentleman havent been on for 3 days at least (i checked their last sign ins)

They're active, at least in the room. I'll tell them.

Thats very interesting because if they have the free time irl to be active on showdown, how come they arent coming on here? It indicates to me that they arent exactly botheted with helping town. But now that I think about it, if they really were mafia, would AJ have revealed this info to us?

> "and I somehow know that both are mafia" - Victoria 2015

Seriously Zane said that he is giving me a chance to defend myself but all i am seeing is that "I have a weird feeling about Numaji" or "Numaji seems unusual". How am I meant to defend myself from that? Yeah ok zane says I am aggressive. It's how I try and get scum to slip up, think of it as my scumhunting technique. Also you were just as aggressive to me too so I dont even understand how you can call me scum for that.

This is the post that u said that I was being aggressive right? How on earth is asking why I am scum being aggressive. You said that i aggressively targetted the fact where you said you wouldnt shoot me coz of exactly what I said. I said NOTHING about that actually?

Numaji O. wrote:

Numaji O. wrote:

ajhockeystar wrote:

The Instructor wrote:Vote Morita

even though he said he might shoot me, i trust him the most with the gun atm.

aj can we get some subs, jack s and the gentleman havent been on for 3 days at least (i checked their last sign ins)

They're active, at least in the room. I'll tell them.

Thats very interesting because if they have the free time irl to be active on showdown, how come they arent coming on here? It indicates to me that they arent exactly botheted with helping town. But now that I think about it, if they really were mafia, would AJ have revealed this info to us?

> "and I somehow know that both are mafia" - Victoria 2015

Seriously Zane said that he is giving me a chance to defend myself but all i am seeing is that "I have a weird feeling about Numaji" or "Numaji seems unusual". How am I meant to defend myself from that? Yeah ok zane says I am aggressive. It's how I try and get scum to slip up, think of it as my scumhunting technique. Also you were just as aggressive to me too so I dont even understand how you can call me scum for that.

This is the post that u said that I was being aggressive right?  How on earth is asking why I am scum being aggressive. You said that i aggressively targetted the fact where you said you wouldnt shoot me coz of exactly what I said. I said NOTHING about that actually?

Because it was completely hypothetical. I never actually said you were scum right there, but you still flipped out and started asking questions about it. All that I'd said was "In a hypothetical world where you and The Instructor are mafia", and nothing more. I never said "In this current world that we're in right now where you're mafia", or anything, and yet once again, here you are, flipping out.

Yes, but I wasnt referring to just that post, I was referring to basically what you have been saying since day 2 and also Zane, Morita and kinda Jack for a bit. I am not flipping out, I am not getting angry actually, I am just questioning you in a little more heated manner. Everything to you seems like "flipping out" if they start questioning you in a more heated manner...

Numaji O. wrote:Yes, but I wasnt referring to just that post, I was referring to basically what you have been saying since day 2 and also Zane, Morita and kinda Jack for a bit. I am not flipping out, I am not getting angry actually, I am just questioning you in a little more heated manner. Everything to you seems like "flipping out" if they start questioning you in a more heated manner...

Caps to me tend to mean anger and thus "flipping out".
Also, not everything seems like flipping out. Usually just the stuff you say.

Victoria F. wrote:

Numaji O. wrote:Yes, but I wasnt referring to just that post, I was referring to basically what you have been saying since day 2 and also Zane, Morita and kinda Jack for a bit. I am not flipping out, I am not getting angry actually, I am just questioning you in a little more heated manner. Everything to you seems like "flipping out" if they start questioning you in a more heated manner...

Caps to me tend to mean anger and thus "flipping out".
Also, not everything seems like flipping out. Usually just the stuff you say.

I was using caps to stress the word actually.

Numaji O. wrote:

Victoria F. wrote:

Numaji O. wrote:Yes, but I wasnt referring to just that post, I was referring to basically what you have been saying since day 2 and also Zane, Morita and kinda Jack for a bit. I am not flipping out, I am not getting angry actually, I am just questioning you in a little more heated manner. Everything to you seems like "flipping out" if they start questioning you in a more heated manner...

Caps to me tend to mean anger and thus "flipping out".
Also, not everything seems like flipping out. Usually just the stuff you say.

I was using caps to stress the word actually.

Bold or italics are better for that. Caps means shouting.

My reads: (percentages are of how much town I think they are)

Numaji : Reads still haven't changed from yesterday. He's been maintaining his play the same way since yesterday so no comments. 60%

Zane : I don't really get a scum read off of him. He doesn't act so town that its suspicious, he has had his moments which is why I'm leaning than for him right now. Of course, this could be an interesting mafia play but I doubt it at the moment. 80%

Shakuji : Like I mentioned earlier today, the only reason I was getting a slight scum read from you because you didn't say much Day 2 after explaining your shot, but I realized that it could be because you didn't want to get involved in any unnecessary argument between Zane and Numaji since you picked up on contributing posts the next day. 70%

Jack : Inactive for quite some time, but you had your reasons so no comments on that. I'm really confused with my read about you. Mostly because you immediately targeted Kuroyo after you came back. Which a town player wouldn't be so confident in doing, they'd think it through and subtly bring it up. But the way you picked up after being inactive so long is the only reason why you seem somewhat town to me. 45%

Kuroyo : I really don't know about you, you're a really interesting player. You've been called out for fillering one too many times. Whether scum or town, you would have fixed that about you rn. But it seems to be some in built trait. You seemed Town to me Day 1 but slowly drifted off say 2 and 3. Your posts don't have much input and you don't seem like you want to get involved in anything. 40%
For future reference, I want to know who you think is scum.

Victoria : Okay so Day 1, I was like "Numaji and Victoria seem really town" but you had a lack of useful posts after that. Buuuuuut, you did bring up Numaji today, in the way I assume a town member would. Slowly analyzing and thinking through it. I'll have to look at your future posts and see how the game goes to make a clearer view 55%

The Gentlemen : Ah, the gentlemen. Very high potential scum target for the reasons I made in the post about him. Contributed nothing at all. Fillered like crazy (worse than Kuroyo because Kuroyo at least said a little bit in each post). And occasionally popped in to say something to make it look like he wasn't lurking. I do agree with giving his sub a chance but he hasn't said anything either. 20%[/b][/b]

Well. Majority of you have your minds set as me as scum so why don't you just shoot me? Nothing much for me to really do atm since majority of the players in this game are really determined to get me lynched, or making way too big of a deal over a mafia. I'm not saying i'm giving up, but i'm tired of seeing "I see Kuroyo as potential scum" "They're fillering, obvious scum" Pretty much no fun for me as you can see. Still good seeing the other reads though but atm you all clearly suspect me as scum the most... I don't know what I should even do anymore.

Lol i meant to say over a mafia game* (Watch as all the mixed thoughts come into play)

Kuroyo C. wrote:Well. Majority of you have your minds set as me as scum so why don't you just shoot me? Nothing much for me to really do atm since majority of the players in this game are really determined to get me lynched, or making way too big of a deal over a mafia. I'm not saying i'm giving up, but i'm tired of seeing "I see Kuroyo as potential scum" "They're fillering, obvious scum" Pretty much no fun for me as you can see. Still good seeing the other reads though but atm you all clearly suspect me as scum the most... I don't know what I should even do anymore.

But we can only mess up twice more and the corruption thing just adds more pressure. We cant shoot you, or anyone, without neeeding to think through it a lot and have a good reason. Please understand the situation and try to help it instead of saying stuff lime that.

Victoria F. wrote:

Numaji O. wrote:

Victoria F. wrote:

Numaji O. wrote:Yes, but I wasnt referring to just that post, I was referring to basically what you have been saying since day 2 and also Zane, Morita and kinda Jack for a bit. I am not flipping out, I am not getting angry actually, I am just questioning you in a little more heated manner. Everything to you seems like "flipping out" if they start questioning you in a more heated manner...

Caps to me tend to mean anger and thus "flipping out".
Also, not everything seems like flipping out. Usually just the stuff you say.

I was using caps to stress the word actually.

Bold or italics are better for that. Caps means shouting.

True but I cant be asked to put [b] [./b] or [i] [./i]. Pressing caps lock is so much easier lol

Numaji O. wrote:

Victoria F. wrote:

Numaji O. wrote:

Victoria F. wrote:

Numaji O. wrote:Yes, but I wasnt referring to just that post, I was referring to basically what you have been saying since day 2 and also Zane, Morita and kinda Jack for a bit. I am not flipping out, I am not getting angry actually, I am just questioning you in a little more heated manner. Everything to you seems like "flipping out" if they start questioning you in a more heated manner...

Caps to me tend to mean anger and thus "flipping out".
Also, not everything seems like flipping out. Usually just the stuff you say.

I was using caps to stress the word actually.

Bold or italics are better for that. Caps means shouting.

True but I cant be asked to put [b] [./b] or [i] [./i]. Pressing caps lock is so much easier lol

I'll just keep in mind that I shouldn't cower in a corner when you use caps then.

Kuroyo C. wrote:Well. Majority of you have your minds set as me as scum so why don't you just shoot me? Nothing much for me to really do atm since majority of the players in this game are really determined to get me lynched, or making way too big of a deal over a mafia. I'm not saying i'm giving up, but i'm tired of seeing "I see Kuroyo as potential scum" "They're fillering, obvious scum" Pretty much no fun for me as you can see. Still good seeing the other reads though but atm you all clearly suspect me as scum the most... I don't know what I should even do anymore.

Kuroyo, I don't think you are scum because of that. Even when Jack called you out for that, I didn't go with it initially. The only reason you seem like a potential scum to me is because of the way you defend yourself. You don't address every point we make as Zane said.

Votecount 4.1
******************************
Morita I.(0)-
Zane M.(0)-
Victoria F.(0)-
Shakuji L.(0)-
Numaji O.(0)-
The Gentleman(0)-
Kuroyo C.(0)-
Jack S.(0)-
Not Voting(7)- The Gentleman, Zane M., Jack S., Victoria F., Kuroyo C., Morita I. , Shakuji L., Numaji O.
******************************
There are 8 alive so it takes 5 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Friday the 17th at 9am EST.
If the deadline was now, Morita I. would receive the gun.

^ How does Morita get the gun? Is it because he had it last? (Sorry I forgot)

alright, here are my thoughts on reads.

Shakuji L. - Most likely to be town out of everyone imo. i personally have agreed with everything shakuji has been talking about through out the game, his reads i think have been pretty good and his discussions have been great as well. nothing really i can comment on here, heavy town lean.

The Gentlemen - bloody talk already and then we can get a read on you. i don't have much to say other than the fact that he can't be arsed to talk originally or as a sub. slight scum lean, i personally don't think we should shoot him today however. (also another comment on the gentleman. i think him lurking is obviously a strat. he wasn't here for 3 game days and wasn't subbed out until the 3rd, and just made a few minimal comments to pass under the radar. now his sub is in and is doing the same thing. i think it could be highly likely that he is there and could be discussing with the scum team still, just keeping up the same behaviour that his previous sub had as well. this is just a thought, so i wouldn't take this as solid information)

Kuroyo C. - honestly still thinking we should shoot her. not as much as yesterday but i'm still a bit on that side. on the topic of fillering being the only reason behind kuroyo, other people have said about her defense as well as her attitude towards it all. the whole "why don't you shoot me already, i've given up" mentality is a bit odd, and i would've expected a bit of a defense this late in the game. word of advice kuroyo about the whole defense thing, you said you didn't know what to do, why don't you actually fight your case and convince us on your viewpoint?
i'm still thinking about kuroyo a bit, but i'm considering some stuff about her. not got much to say on this front still, so probably about a 30-40% scum lean on kuroyo, if i were to shoot today would probably shoot her. that could change but yeah.

Zane M. - I really don't have that much to say on the front of zane that wouldn't be the same as my previous read. still got a town read on him, and i would personally trust him with the gun. i can't think of any major things right now that would effect my read on him, so yeah. town lean, read is fairly stable.

Numaji O. - I'm honestly not too sure about Numaji at this point. He's been the topic of a lot of conversation on early day 2 and now day 4, and he's honestly a peculiar case at this point. the fact that people are questioning him is good and it's probably good so that we can get a proper idea on him. reading the analysis post by victoria was pretty interesting and i'm quite intrigued into how he's playing this game atm. i'm thinking of having a look at some of his past posts to read into them a lil bit, but anyway my read is a slight town lean, i'm still thinking about numaji.

Victoria F. - personally unsure on victoria as well. i'm liking her deep analysis posts she has offered to the table, but at the same time as i have been focusing kuroyo a lot, she has seemed to always come back to focus on numaji for some reason. i don't know if this is her saying that we shouldn't just focus on the players who are the topic of a lot of conversation but everyone's biggest town reads as well, who knows at this point. will comment on victoria further i think, she is in my sights for a bit of an analysis. neutral.

Jack S. - hellooooooo

Morita I - I haven't really been looking into morita as much as I should be to be honest, so i'm still a slight town lean on him. will have to have a proper look at him today as well as victoria and numaji. town i think



anyway, i'm probably gonna say that my most likely 4 people to be scum at this point are Kuroyo, The Gentleman, Victoria and Numaji. Probably isn't all right, and i honestly can't get a full scum team of 3 out of these people, so i just decided to give my top 4. in my opinion, the others i haven't said are pretty stable and are likely town, but that could change, along with anything.

any questions, feel free to ask

(he gets the gun because he's at the top of the player list right now.)