Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Caroline M. wrote:

Clara H. wrote:<snip>

As much as it goes without saying that town should just follow the plan, I can see why someone might want to check with their partner. Even if it's just because you want to be polite. This in itself isn't really condemning.

So basically what I'm trying to say is that there's better reasons to lynch Shepherd, such as his general sketchy behaviour and inactivity. You shouldn't use this as the sole reason.

Shepherd D. wrote:First off, Doctor Proctor is honestly either just a horrible player or trying to hide something. Did the person Doctor Proctor was supposed to fruit get fruit? Until they actually say something worth while, I'm going to lynch Doctor Proctor. This is directed towards Caroline: from what I could see d1, Cherry didn't actually respond to my question at first, and when she did, I didn't say anything about it because I frankly didn't see a need to. Infernando is a clear scumread for me as he's done absolutely nothing and the posts that can be seen above are clearly filler and a pitiful attempt at actually saying something to appear active, which they're not, and yet I'm lynching Proctor instead as his actions overall just irk me more. Caroline is a slight townread to me, though her overuse of the word "dazzling" gets me. Is that playing for towncred? I'm going to keep watching that as the game goes on. Emma is a clear townread from my view, as she has been incredibly active and given us her thoughts and reads from the start. I townread Clara (though maybe it's just because her avatar looks so innocent) but she's also just leaned town to me in a gut sort of way. Will give more reads later. If I haven't given a read on you in this paragraph, you need to be more active.

Dr. Proctor wrote:I have quite a few thoughts about the game and what have been said so far. However, I don't have the time to type it all right now - so do expect some posts in about 16 hours or so. See you then.

Dr. Proctor wrote:Hello, I am here finally. Yes it was a little late but I say a little late is better than not appearing at all. I have read the whole thread so I am caught up with all the main points of discussion. However, you should note that since I did not participate in the conversation, my perspective may be slightly delayed. If you think I have taken your post out of context please do say so, especially since I may miss the minor details.

I will comment on the structure of the game. I definitely agree with the fruit chain night 1 as we have good activity so far. I also agree that we should not use the chain again night 2; it should be saved for another night. With that said, I have provided a randomized player list below:

Shepherd D.
Emmy A.
Caroline M.
Cherry P.
Jeremiah W.
Clara H.
Infernando G.
Halsey N.
Dr. Proctor
Anima V.
Kimmy S.

Since I regrettably have limited time again, I will post some few thoughts on the three players which I think was the most discussed about: Cherry, Halsey and Jeremiah. It's not gonna be too long, but it should capture what I have so far. I also think I will have more free time during the next day cycle. Stay tuned.

Jeremiah W. wrote:After finishing those posts I just checked my quicktopic.

I Did Not receive fruit last night.

Cherry P. wrote:is getting fruit even relevant when there are no deaths?
smdh at infernando idling
I did get fruit last night, though

Infernando G. wrote:

Cherry P. wrote:is getting fruit even relevant when there are no deaths?
smdh at infernando idling
I did get fruit last night, though

wait no I didn't idle. You said player list and Kimmy was below me on the player list

Shepherd D. wrote:Going to reply to people's queries one by one. First off, I wanted to hear Cherry's thoughts to overall get reads on her. By I didn't need to reply, I mean that it was enough for me to merely read her thoughts, as I didn't see any need to question her about them. I never backed down, I just didn't feel the need to question Cherry any further. And about being online day 1... I wasn't really? Perhaps I left my computer turned on while I was out doing things. I don't want to bring outside influences in any more than that... and again, could I get actual reasoning as to why you're always inserting dazzling into your thoughts? It just makes them more difficult to read... as to Jeremiah, I was just noting the people that I could currently see on the page. I'm going to go and gather info on everyone else later, but it's worth noting that Jeremiah hasn't posted in a while. also, I've already said that Infernando isn't active enough. So why are you assuming that I'm considering him active?

As to your queries on Doctor Proctor, due to his quick RVS at the start of day 1 and his lack of posting, it makes me think that either he's trying to hide being scum (without us noticing, of course) or he's just overall bad (I don't think this for any reason other than inactivity and lack of post relevance). I haven't read back too much into d1, so if Proctor was more active at this time I'd love it if someone could correc t me. Will go and gather more reads and answers in a moment.

And about being online day 1... I wasn't really? Perhaps I left my computer turned on while I was out doing things. wrote:

could I get actual reasoning as to [i]why[/i] you're always inserting dazzling into your thoughts? It just makes them more difficult to read wrote:

I'm going to go and gather info on everyone else later, but it's worth noting that Jeremiah hasn't posted in a while. also, I've already said that Infernando isn't active enough. So why are you assuming that I'm considering him active? wrote:

Shepherd D. wrote:To Emmy: I have already stated that I didn't say Clara townread me, by townlean I mean they leaned town in my eyes. Please make sure you read all the info before criticizing.

Shepherd D. wrote:

Dr. Proctor wrote:Hello, I am here finally. Yes it was a little late but I say a little late is better than not appearing at all. I have read the whole thread so I am caught up with all the main points of discussion. However, you should note that since I did not participate in the conversation, my perspective may be slightly delayed. If you think I have taken your post out of context please do say so, especially since I may miss the minor details.

I will comment on the structure of the game. I definitely agree with the fruit chain night 1 as we have good activity so far. I also agree that we should not use the chain again night 2; it should be saved for another night. With that said, I have provided a randomized player list below:

Shepherd D.
Emmy A.
Caroline M.
Cherry P.
Jeremiah W.
Clara H.
Infernando G.
Halsey N.
Dr. Proctor
Anima V.
Kimmy S.

Since I regrettably have limited time again, I will post some few thoughts on the three players which I think was the most discussed about: Cherry, Halsey and Jeremiah. It's not gonna be too long, but it should capture what I have so far. I also think I will have more free time during the next day cycle. Stay tuned.

Clearly trying to look like he's providing information but really just coming up with a list of players. And then he's limited on time again? That just doesn't seem right...

Shepherd D. wrote:I was just about to post about Cherry's lack of activity in day 2 then she returned. Good for that. I'd love to see your opinions on my reads as most people so far have said the same thing. Poking Emmy and Charlotte for this reason. As well, scratch the townlean on Emmy, I don't like her slightly off-topic comments "Love the broken quoting system of this. Come on aj, fix your thread" and the agreeing mostly with what Clara and Caroline have said d2. Emmy's a null read now, as well as Clara (will give reasoning for this later). I still slightly townread Caroline due to her asking good and relevant questions and despite the continuous "dazzling" filler.

And for god's sake Doctor Proctor come SAY SOMETHING!

I was just about to post about Cherry's lack of activity in day 2 then she returned. wrote:

And for god's sake Doctor Proctor come SAY SOMETHING! wrote:

And about being online day 1... I wasn't really? Perhaps I left my computer turned on while I was out doing things. wrote:

Emmy A. wrote:
-As mentioned yesterday you have a number of scumleans but go on to vote none of them. You back off on your Anima read with no clear indicator of what motivated the opinion shift, and even in the post where you list her as your strongest scumread you include the caveat of "there's a good chance statistically that she's a townie" and that becomes your reasoning for not lynching her (and then you still go on to say "I am not opposed to an Anima lynch").

Emmy A. wrote:
Cherry P.-Unlynched Halsey at one point due to wanting to reread but looking over your posts I don't think you were satisfied with what you saw (with the way you continued challenging him and bringing up points such as why his plan would be fake. If you in fact weren't satisfied, why not relynch? It feels like an odd way to start backing off the lynch and prompted me to go back and look at your Jeremiah unlynch, and there isn't a lot of interaction with him after it. (I think I mentioned this already and your response was along the lines of "I was scumreading Halsey more.") You did mention you think he wasn't reading your logic properly, but what do you think of him in terms of alignment?

Jeremiah W. wrote:Going after people who act like they're looking for scum without ever making a logical read is the way to find the mafia, and so far the person that fits that profile to me is Kimmy.

Shepherd D. wrote:I received fruit last night, if that helps. I'm not sure. I'm bad at typing large and bulky paragraphs. On a second note, thoughts on potential disagreements between hydra heads thus far?

Emmy A. wrote:
(Phrased differently, I don't see why Proctor as scum would promise to make a post with the intention of not following up, and I think the fact in itself is a null-tell.)

Shepherd D. wrote:Now that I look at my QT, due to my partner subbing in late, we never actually sent in a fruit action. I wonder if AJ took that as idling. Whoever I was supposed to fruit, can you comment?

Halsey N. wrote: Also the fact that Cherry doesn't look back at name tag (which I'll buy) means more power to Cherry's responses.

Shepherd D. wrote:
Edit: I'd also like to note that Doctor Proctor has been incredibly inactive today. Is there a reason for this? Where's the Doc?

Shepherd D. wrote:I also find it odd that both of the Infernando heads have been somewhat inactive this game. Is there any reason for this?

Shepherd D. wrote:
I was just about to post about Cherry's lack of activity in day 2 then she returned.

Infernando G. wrote:
wait no I didn't idle. You said player list and Kimmy was below me on the player list

Emmy A. wrote:
First of all, Cherry P. seemed like they defended themselves nicely, but recently (I did a small ISO to check) all their talk is about the fruiting system and what to do. While the fruiting system is a pretty big mechanic to help provoke scumhunting, the obsession (last 20ish posts were just about this) makes it seem alot like filler "try to seem active". I have no doubts that this player (seems like there is only one of them, the other seems really inactive) will stop with the "fruit filler (ill call it that)" and actually give opinions that aren't about fruit, but I would prefer that to be now since it is day 2.

Emmy A. wrote:
As for Kimmy who recently posted a bunch of wallposts (please why so much reading...), most of all I see is criticizing Cherry's "dazzling" plan, and I honestly do not see anything else of value.

Emmy A. wrote:
I'd also like to point out I think Infernado is town, unless they purposefully tried to throw off town via. not killing + not fruiting. Seems like a weird concept, and I guess it is plausible, but for now slight TR just because I don't really think they would idle fruit as scum (just my thought). I would like them to talk more without a bunch of filler though because currently, I don't see anything.

Shepherd D. wrote:First off, Doctor Proctor is honestly either just a horrible player or trying to hide something. Did the person Doctor Proctor was supposed to fruit get fruit? Until they actually say something worth while, I'm going to lynch Doctor Proctor.

Shepherd D. wrote:
Caroline is a slight townread to me, though her overuse of the word "dazzling" gets me. Is that playing for towncred?

Shepherd D. wrote: I'm going to keep watching that as the game goes on. Emma is a clear townread from my view, as she has been incredibly active and given us her thoughts and reads from the start.  

Shepherd D. wrote:I townread Clara (though maybe it's just because her avatar looks so innocent) but she's also just leaned town to me in a gut sort of way. Will give more reads later. If I haven't given a read on you in this paragraph, you need to be more active.

Emmy A. wrote:Love the broken quoting system of this. Come on aj, fix your thread

Shepherd D. wrote:
As to your queries on Doctor Proctor, due to his quick RVS at the start of day 1 and his lack of posting, it makes me think that either he's trying to hide being scum (without us noticing, of course) or he's just overall bad (I don't think this for any reason other than inactivity and lack of post relevance). I haven't read back too much into d1, so if Proctor was more active at this time I'd love it if someone could correc t me. Will go and gather more reads and answers in a moment.

Jeremiah W. wrote:
Since Infernando also fruited Kimmy, Kimmy did you receive two fruit?, because we also fruited Kimmy (followed the plan)

Shepherd D. wrote:As well, scratch the townlean on Emmy, I don't like her slightly off-topic comments "Love the broken quoting system of this. Come on aj, fix your thread" and the agreeing mostly with what Clara and Caroline have said d2.

Emmy A. wrote:Lynch Jeremiah W. I'd venture to say that even Dr. Proctor has put forth more effort to find scum than Jeremiah, as while Dock Prock was inactive for much of Day 1 his post near the end of the day shows an effort to put forth original content without much prodding directed at him, while it took heavy pushing to get even a readlist from Jeremiah, and I have problems with those reads despite their high detail (some of these things are what I wanted to mention during last night's in-between phase).

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Ok, so I decided to look into two similar posts from Jeremiah and Proctor and compare them since these posts are essentially a sum up to what they state. Like this is what that Quack wrote (I really do not believe he is a doctor)

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Now let's compare this to something similar that Jeremiah wrote...

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The difference between this post is that the quack is addressing the issues that he has with Jeremiah and stating them out completely. He also uses the physical posts Jeremiah wrote against him and to question him. Now this is directed towards Jeremiah. Jeremiah, you were really never open to begin with and your summary uses words like forced, picking at anything, etc. A lot of this was basically made public and you just provided a summary and how you felt about them. I don't really see you quoting back to anything to support this and it just feels like you are on coattail.

Look, I know these are different. Jeremiah was basically a summary of scumleans and Proctor's was what he called it, a journal. However, I was going through you posts in your name tag before you said those summaries and lets say I hate it. Your posts have been basically this.
A.) Defense
B.) Insight
C.) Asking other people's thoughts

So you are basically taking restated information that has been made public and providing insight on it (what you did with your summaries) and you do not even quote what feels forced, what feels this, what feels that, etc. You haven't really gone on to help during the scumhunt and you feel more like let's say, a 3rd person reader. Also to add the fact that I hate your defenses because they are so behind to what is happening in the game currently like your unlynch defense of Cherry when everybody had moved on to new players (I'm not saying to forget about Cherry, I'm saying to multitask) and you didnt even interact with them besides your summary of them. You really do not bring nothing new at all and I hate that. Your only participation is your defense, re asked questions of Cherry, and the unlynch on Cherry. You also stated this (control f it)

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Yet you weren't sure of Anima and lynched anyways. So much for sticking with your guts.. Also, you havent pressured anybody at all unless said person is called Cherry and you didn't even do much of that. Your pressure was only your reason for not unlynching and everything else was asking for clarification towards Cherry.

-Firstly, you gave a few questions at one point and I mentioned liking the effort. I also mentioned wanting to see where you went with them, and you didn't really go anywhere. One example is that you asked about my thoughts on a comment from Clara, and after I answered it there was no mention of that answer and how it affected your opinions on either of us.

-You have a scumlean on Dr. Proctor due to his lack of content, but Infernando having next to no content is apparently offset by the fact that the members of his hydra can't agree on something and Shepherd also having no content makes him completely null. I don't see how these differences cause a difference in how you read them.

-Your scumlean on Kimmy seems primarily motivated by a difference in playstyle and, as I mentioned yesterday, you leave yourself an out by saying "this doesn't mean that he has to be scum himself."

-As mentioned yesterday you have a number of scumleans but go on to vote none of them. You back off on your Anima read with no clear indicator of what motivated the opinion shift, and even in the post where you list her as your strongest scumread you include the caveat of "there's a good chance statistically that she's a townie" and that becomes your reasoning for not lynching her (and then you still go on to say "I am not opposed to an Anima lynch").


Also, there were six people yesterday who didn't vote.  Considering that lynches are not locked in when they are placed I don't see the point in not using your lynch. I went back to check people's possible reasons for not lynching and:

Anima-Anima.

Caroline-This actually strikes me as odd. Both members of the hydra were apparently hoping the other could help them out in deciding who to vote, and one mentioned possibly lynching Shepherd as a way to pressure him into posting Day 2. The question I have here is why ask what we thought about it instead of just doing it, especially since it had a low chance to affect the lynch?

Doccity doc of the pricky pricky proc (I had to steal that line from Caroline at least once)-I find it a bit odd that your post didn't have a comment on Anima (since she was the top wagon at the time), but Anima then again didn't have a ton of posts. I sort of get not wanting to vote if you didn't have a ton of time to read through everything, so imo be more active today. (Actually, I think your lynch was still on Cherry but this applies still, as it was a randlynch, but then again the votecount doesn't show it so maybe I missed something?)

Jeremiah W.-See above.

Cherry P.-Unlynched Halsey at one point due to wanting to reread but looking over your posts I don't think you were satisfied with what you saw (with the way you continued challenging him and bringing up points such as why his plan would be fake. If you in fact weren't satisfied, why not relynch? It feels like an odd way to start backing off the lynch and prompted me to go back and look at your Jeremiah unlynch, and there isn't a lot of interaction with him after it. (I think I mentioned this already and your response was along the lines of "I was scumreading Halsey more.") You did mention you think he wasn't reading your logic properly, but what do you think of him in terms of alignment?

Infernando G.-I mentioned this earlier during Day 1. There's definitely hydra problems going on here, but neither of the two have given many thoughts on anything and the point I made about one of them being upset about the unlynch yet not relynching stands still.

Obviously not voting=/=instant scum, but I guess I’m just pissed that a lot of people seemed like they’d have concrete reasons to vote someone and didn’t. So...yeah. Vote.


Despite my problems with Jeremiah's readlist, it does bring up a number of good points, most notably regarding Clara. I feel her playstyle has been under the radar so far. The issue with her null reads have been brought up, and it feels off that she mentions people are misunderstanding her read on Halsey but doesn't make an effort to clear it up. There's also not a lot of interaction with Halsey (she puts off reading his posts twice) despite her lynch being on him. This makes it seem like she's less concerned with figuring out Halsey's alignment and more concerned with finding someone to push.

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Readlist is such a broad term. I declare that we will now call them either summaries or journals. What Jeremiah did was a summary and I have stated above the issues with him doing this (and only him...)

Also I’ll just say now, I don’t think we should use our second fruit circle tonight but rather save it for a scenario such as mylo or pre-mylo. I’m pretty sure others share this opinion as well, but I want to make sure we're all on the same page.

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I agree with this. There is no such thing as pmylo in this setup though. Obv use it during mylo

Jeremiah W. wrote:Ok, so before deadline hit Emmy went off on my last posts and apparently considered trying to shift the lynch to me.  She discussed how the way I’m expressing my scumreads gives me a lot of leeway to shift my opinions later on when it “benefits me to scumread someone else”.  The issue I have with this is that she reads me entirely under the assumption that I am scum, without any evidence.  If I am town, my scumreading is ideally to the benefit of the town by finding mafia.  It’s easy to make a post look bad when you look at it under the assumption that the poster is mafia.  Emmy’s post in that context looks like she’s setting up her lynch target for day 2.  After lynching an inactive townie day 1, she sees me as someone who has been generally considered scummy by most of the game and that it would probably be fairly easy to get me voted out.  However, I have very little evidence to back that up, and she could just as likely be a concerned townie that tends to look at people under the assumption that they are mafia, which it seems like she tends to do a lot.

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Can we please stop with the "no evidence thing (Jeremiah)", the "has done more than you thing (Emmy)". They are so broad.. Just explain the issue you have with that player and that's that. Emmy backed that statement up with saying he stated original content (which I had to go back to his post and reread to remember). I guess calling it original content is common sense to what new stuff Proctor talked about, so I'll give that layaway. But anyways, I am done, absolutely done... Everybody start quoting your stuff because it is really annoying me that I have to go back and try to figure out what you mean by "original content"  or in this case "no evidence".

Only reason not to quote is if the stuff is in the same freaking page. I do not digress.

Also Emmy didn't just read you, Emmy gave some reasons for why he/she thought you were scum and stated out the scummy FEATURES in your posts throughout the time she/he has played. Although I will make the point that it is alot of the same stuff and said in a general way, but that point she/he called you on was adding to what he/she thought was scummy to begin with which Emmy stated some posts behind (well Emmy basically agreed on what I stated iirc, but went on trying to look at this thing in your posts).

While I was looking back, I found something interesting...

Spoiler:

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So two things I want to state. Emmy right here is being very contradictory here. First of all Emmy, you stated that he had done less (well dare say) than Proctor, but here you are, praising him for posts that are basically similar to what he has done. Also the fact that you also said you would lynch Anima in order to pressure WHICH WAS what I forgot that other day when writing my post. You basically did the same thing Caroline did and then you questioned Caroline for it. Although you are calling Jeremiah for what he said during the Anima thing which I agree that giving yourself layaway like that is scummy, then you conclude as a whole that you dislike what Jeremiah has been doing an I'm not liking that one bit...

She also called me out for being sort of back and forth on Anima.  I’ll go through the thought process I went through on her because it is admittedly hard to follow.  When she was simply inactive I just lumped her in with the other 3 that hadn’t posted much up to that point (Infernando, Proctor, Shepherd).  After she made the poor decisions of asking for scumreads and then posting the bolded question mark, I had a feeling she was going to get lynched.  I knew that the posts she made combined with her inactivity was scummier than what anyone else had done up to that point, and I read it as such.  However,  it didn’t strike me as posts that would be coming from someone who really knew what they were doing.  I wouldn’t expect anyone who has played this game more than once or twice to respond that way to pressure, or to simply make no attempt to defend themself.  When I see someone in those games acting like that, it is generally a townie that just didn’t really get how forum mafia works, and they usually get lynched in the first 2 days.  When I said that she is statistically likely to be town, I was referring to the fact that most people who respond like that to pressure and then stop posting are new players that don’t get how to play forum mafia.  With that in mind, I understood that other than Anima potentially being a number for town, she really wasn’t ever going to provide much in terms of activity or scumhunting for town, and for that reason I was ok with her getting lynched.  

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You are the person that said you wouldn't lynch if you were unsure, so why do that. That's the issue I have with this. I mean, you were OK with the lynch but that is not the same thing as SURE with the lynch.
 Also I hate the fact that you lynched off a pragmatic reason. You said you would use your lynch if you were sure if somebody was scum which is very different from pragmatism as a whole. I mean, everybody is inclined to move out of their comfort zone and I understand if you lynched for that reason. However, why not lynch somebody like Kimmy instead since your main reason to lynch was stronger than the not comfort zone reason to lynch. I don't understand that. Also, the fact that you stated those thoughts I hated. I mean, Kimmy had already announced the pragmatic reason for the lynch (not gonna participate, etc.). In summary, what I hate about your post is that the Anima thoughts you stated and the reason to lynch Anima are an oxymoron since judging from your post, you were obv not in favor towards it in basically gave into pressure.

I have some conflicting viewpoints thought. If you were scum, you would have no reason to state that whatsoever and you would've been good. What even was your intent in stating that if you didn't even ul. I mean at first I thought it was scummy, but now that I think about it.. What even was the purpose of that. It goes nowhere....

In games like this, there is a good chance that most accounts have at least one player that knows what they’re doing in these anon games.  When that is the case, simply sitting around and waiting for someone to make a post that outs them as scum is pointless because the mafia likely knows how to seem clean.  Finding scum is harder when it’s like this, but obviously not impossible.  You have to look for the people that seem to be looking to help town, but really aren’t doing much at all to actually help them win.  I usually look for people who are scumreading based on something that isn’t logical, like a pre-game post.  The way Kimmy made his reads day 1 seemed to match this quite a bit to me.  He gave too much weight to certain things (yelled scum at Anima after her post asking for scumreads, lynched Halsey after accusing him of contributing nothing) instead of simply pointing them out and asking for explanations.  The only difference between his scumreads on Halsey and Anima was that Halsey responded and called him out on his reads.  If Anima had responded in the same way that Halsey did and properly defended herself, she very well could have survived day 1.  Although the sample size in this game is way to small to make conclusions, historically in these games calling out the first scummy thing people do and lynching them for it hasn’t worked out so well.  Scum factions have won exactly two thirds of these anon games, lots of times without losing a single member.  Expecting mafia to be dumb enough to make actions that would out themselves as scum early on is foolish behavior, and lynching the low hanging fruit every day is just going to result in town death after town death.  Going after people who act like they're looking for scum without ever making a logical read is the way to find the mafia, and so far the person that fits that profile to me is Kimmy.

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You see man, this is the type of posting I want to see. You explain yourself well and state for why you do not like that behavior of Kimmy's. After reading all of that (beep) on top, I was expecting more disappointment,
 but just wow, I love this so much. You put me in a good mood. I like the mafia part alot. Actually I'm just going to post this and comment on this separately. Give me a sec.

Shepherd D. wrote:And overall, I am NOT happy with the bulky post Cherry just made. Like, seriously? "i had something rude here but I removed it because i didn't want to scare you off. count yourself lucky.'? That seems like you're playing on emotions pretty harshly.

Shepherd D. wrote:
"you're being pressured, people are asking you questions, and what do you do? respond to the questions? attempt to clarify misconceptions? do absolutely nothing and get upset at another player for a terrible reason? " I don't like this at all. Taking myself out of this scenario entirely and putting practically anyone in my place, this comment seems more like a personal attack to your target than an actual read reasoning. Is there a reason why you can't be direct and to-the-point here?  

Shepherd D. wrote:
"What do you mean by potential disagreements between hydra heads?" Replying to this, this question was mainly just to find reactions from people, as hydra disagreements are pretty much NAI. I didn't get anything indicative of scum, so I passed up on that, similar to my question directed at you at the beginning of the game.

Shepherd D. wrote:
"wrt filler that's completely fair, but why does her agreeing with what clara/caroline said impact your read on her in any way whatsoever?"
Because scum buddying town is a thing. And an easy thing as well. And a common thing.

Shepherd D. wrote:
'With his desire to "discuss with his partner"' ...Already explained this. Not going to do it again.
Will give an analysis on Emmy in a moment after reading back.