Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

by Willhiema L. Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:28 am

Azumi A. wrote:
Willhiema L. wrote:
Satoru S. wrote:Well my lynch on Kinjo got no reaction whatsoever which ik was random lynch but was hoping for something atleast. Also we need to discuss not bout scum first but about the mechanic of the game, this would be the doc protects.
We do? Well you are only allowed to protect twice....once urself and once someone else...

I have an idea, how about after every night the people who protected say if they did or not, but not reveal who they protected. This will create a mini list on the potential confo docs. Of course i am aware that mafia will try to fake being a doc and say "I used my protection!" Which i guess is a bit of a flaw which i dont quite know how to cleanly solve. But maybe the plan could get us closer to the truth?

In fact we could reveal who we protected because 1.) Its gonna be a bit like dethy but much more vague. 2.) Someone can protect him accordingly on what way he protected.

I do want to here everyones thoughts about this. I am not sure if this might work so i want a collective mind into this than my NFE mind. In fact we can make an entirely new plan and scratch this one lol (but with good reason) .

I feel that while the idea is pretty good, it's VERY flawed, as if someone somehow manages to pull off a protection that saves someone it gives 1 problem, though that problem is big enough to make it a small advantage only, and you have already said it. Mafia fakeclaims. Say I would protect someone night 1 and no one gets killed, no one claims to have protected except for me, wouldn't that be scummy? Only 1 person protected and somehow protected the right person... at night 1? In that case suspicion would be on me while I could very well have actually just been really lucky with my protection, or maybe the mafia decided to not kill and see what would happen, see if they could blow some protections and inspections. Which brings me to the next point.

We could use our protections as vague inspections. Say someone dies night 1 and 1 of us protected for example sunreeser, then he isn't cleared, and in the same situation if no one dies then sunreeser would be a bit more clean. Though of course as I'm saying this the mafia is reading it too so they'll be thinking about tactics on that too... (I said sunreeser because that's the only name I can spell from memory)

That is true, i also did think it was kinda flawed buti thought maybe we can make it less flawed. Also yeah thats sorta what i meant with "Its gonna be like dethy but a lot more vague" because we use protections as inspections. Basically what i was aiming for was a way to exploit the modified doc role since this is basically Vanilla but with Modified Docs instead of Vanilla Townies. So the fact that there is a more powerful role than a vanilla townie should be something that can be used to our advantage.

It would be nice if we thought about exactly how we are gonna execute this strat however if this does distract us from what is really going on then dont worry about it, this is really just a suggestion.

by Kimyo N. Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:30 pm

Koji I. wrote:sure are lots of mentions of ODM in this game...

It's almost like he's someone in this very game.

by Kimyo N. Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:47 pm

Willhiema L. wrote:
Azumi A. wrote:
Willhiema L. wrote:
Satoru S. wrote:Well my lynch on Kinjo got no reaction whatsoever which ik was random lynch but was hoping for something atleast. Also we need to discuss not bout scum first but about the mechanic of the game, this would be the doc protects.
We do? Well you are only allowed to protect twice....once urself and once someone else...

I have an idea, how about after every night the people who protected say if they did or not, but not reveal who they protected. This will create a mini list on the potential confo docs. Of course i am aware that mafia will try to fake being a doc and say "I used my protection!" Which i guess is a bit of a flaw which i dont quite know how to cleanly solve. But maybe the plan could get us closer to the truth?

In fact we could reveal who we protected because 1.) Its gonna be a bit like dethy but much more vague. 2.) Someone can protect him accordingly on what way he protected.

I do want to here everyones thoughts about this. I am not sure if this might work so i want a collective mind into this than my NFE mind. In fact we can make an entirely new plan and scratch this one lol (but with good reason) .

I feel that while the idea is pretty good, it's VERY flawed, as if someone somehow manages to pull off a protection that saves someone it gives 1 problem, though that problem is big enough to make it a small advantage only, and you have already said it. Mafia fakeclaims. Say I would protect someone night 1 and no one gets killed, no one claims to have protected except for me, wouldn't that be scummy? Only 1 person protected and somehow protected the right person... at night 1? In that case suspicion would be on me while I could very well have actually just been really lucky with my protection, or maybe the mafia decided to not kill and see what would happen, see if they could blow some protections and inspections. Which brings me to the next point.

We could use our protections as vague inspections. Say someone dies night 1 and 1 of us protected for example sunreeser, then he isn't cleared, and in the same situation if no one dies then sunreeser would be a bit more clean. Though of course as I'm saying this the mafia is reading it too so they'll be thinking about tactics on that too... (I said sunreeser because that's the only name I can spell from memory)
That is true, i also did think it was kinda flawed buti thought maybe we can make it less flawed. Also yeah thats sorta what i meant with "Its gonna be like dethy but a lot more vague" because we use protections as inspections. Basically what i was aiming for was a way to exploit the modified doc role since this is basically Vanilla but with Modified Docs instead of Vanilla Townies. So the fact that there is a more powerful role than a vanilla townie should be something that can be used to our advantage.

It would be nice if we thought about exactly how we are gonna execute this strat however if this does distract us from what is really going on then don't worry about it, this is really just a suggestion.

Sure the modified doc may be more useful than the good ole vanilla townie but seriously, we don't have a fucking clue yet on what the role modifier does. IMO we find that out tonight to get a better understanding on the whole modified doc thing. That should be a key part of this personally.

Also, how about we announce who we're protecting before the night? Or has that been suggested yet, just wondering if that would be any better.
Also, I won't leave a lynch atm, it seems like we're already pressuring enough to me. Will just end up with me not retracting and causing bother for town.

by Willhiema L. Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:41 pm

Kimyo N. wrote:
Willhiema L. wrote:
Azumi A. wrote:
Willhiema L. wrote:
Satoru S. wrote:Well my lynch on Kinjo got no reaction whatsoever which ik was random lynch but was hoping for something atleast. Also we need to discuss not bout scum first but about the mechanic of the game, this would be the doc protects.
We do? Well you are only allowed to protect twice....once urself and once someone else...

I have an idea, how about after every night the people who protected say if they did or not, but not reveal who they protected. This will create a mini list on the potential confo docs. Of course i am aware that mafia will try to fake being a doc and say "I used my protection!" Which i guess is a bit of a flaw which i dont quite know how to cleanly solve. But maybe the plan could get us closer to the truth?

In fact we could reveal who we protected because 1.) Its gonna be a bit like dethy but much more vague. 2.) Someone can protect him accordingly on what way he protected.

I do want to here everyones thoughts about this. I am not sure if this might work so i want a collective mind into this than my NFE mind. In fact we can make an entirely new plan and scratch this one lol (but with good reason) .

I feel that while the idea is pretty good, it's VERY flawed, as if someone somehow manages to pull off a protection that saves someone it gives 1 problem, though that problem is big enough to make it a small advantage only, and you have already said it. Mafia fakeclaims. Say I would protect someone night 1 and no one gets killed, no one claims to have protected except for me, wouldn't that be scummy? Only 1 person protected and somehow protected the right person... at night 1? In that case suspicion would be on me while I could very well have actually just been really lucky with my protection, or maybe the mafia decided to not kill and see what would happen, see if they could blow some protections and inspections. Which brings me to the next point.

We could use our protections as vague inspections. Say someone dies night 1 and 1 of us protected for example sunreeser, then he isn't cleared, and in the same situation if no one dies then sunreeser would be a bit more clean. Though of course as I'm saying this the mafia is reading it too so they'll be thinking about tactics on that too... (I said sunreeser because that's the only name I can spell from memory)
That is true, i also did think it was kinda flawed buti thought maybe we can make it less flawed. Also yeah thats sorta what i meant with "Its gonna be like dethy but a lot more vague" because we use protections as inspections. Basically what i was aiming for was a way to exploit the modified doc role since this is basically Vanilla but with Modified Docs instead of Vanilla Townies. So the fact that there is a more powerful role than a vanilla townie should be something that can be used to our advantage.

It would be nice if we thought about exactly how we are gonna execute this strat however if this does distract us from what is really going on then don't worry about it, this is really just a suggestion.
Sure the modified doc may be more useful than the good ole vanilla townie but seriously, we don't have a fucking clue yet on what the role modifier does. IMO we find that out tonight to get a better understanding on the whole modified doc thing. That should be a key part of this personally.

Also, how about we announce who we're protecting before the night? Or has that been suggested yet, just wondering if that would be any better.
Also, I won't leave a lynch atm, it seems like we're already pressuring enough to me. Will just end up with me not retracting and causing bother for town.

what do you mean we dont know what the role modifier does? It clearly states what it does lol. Also the problem with announcing your night action is that you are basically telling the mafia which is the safest kill for them which isnt very good for town.

by Himashi G. Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:37 pm

Willhiema L. wrote:
Kimyo N. wrote:
Willhiema L. wrote:
Azumi A. wrote:
Willhiema L. wrote:
Satoru S. wrote:Well my lynch on Kinjo got no reaction whatsoever which ik was random lynch but was hoping for something atleast. Also we need to discuss not bout scum first but about the mechanic of the game, this would be the doc protects.
We do? Well you are only allowed to protect twice....once urself and once someone else...

I have an idea, how about after every night the people who protected say if they did or not, but not reveal who they protected. This will create a mini list on the potential confo docs. Of course i am aware that mafia will try to fake being a doc and say "I used my protection!" Which i guess is a bit of a flaw which i dont quite know how to cleanly solve. But maybe the plan could get us closer to the truth?

In fact we could reveal who we protected because 1.) Its gonna be a bit like dethy but much more vague. 2.) Someone can protect him accordingly on what way he protected.

I do want to here everyones thoughts about this. I am not sure if this might work so i want a collective mind into this than my NFE mind. In fact we can make an entirely new plan and scratch this one lol (but with good reason) .

I feel that while the idea is pretty good, it's VERY flawed, as if someone somehow manages to pull off a protection that saves someone it gives 1 problem, though that problem is big enough to make it a small advantage only, and you have already said it. Mafia fakeclaims. Say I would protect someone night 1 and no one gets killed, no one claims to have protected except for me, wouldn't that be scummy? Only 1 person protected and somehow protected the right person... at night 1? In that case suspicion would be on me while I could very well have actually just been really lucky with my protection, or maybe the mafia decided to not kill and see what would happen, see if they could blow some protections and inspections. Which brings me to the next point.

We could use our protections as vague inspections. Say someone dies night 1 and 1 of us protected for example sunreeser, then he isn't cleared, and in the same situation if no one dies then sunreeser would be a bit more clean. Though of course as I'm saying this the mafia is reading it too so they'll be thinking about tactics on that too... (I said sunreeser because that's the only name I can spell from memory)
That is true, i also did think it was kinda flawed buti thought maybe we can make it less flawed. Also yeah thats sorta what i meant with "Its gonna be like dethy but a lot more vague" because we use protections as inspections. Basically what i was aiming for was a way to exploit the modified doc role since this is basically Vanilla but with Modified Docs instead of Vanilla Townies. So the fact that there is a more powerful role than a vanilla townie should be something that can be used to our advantage.

It would be nice if we thought about exactly how we are gonna execute this strat however if this does distract us from what is really going on then don't worry about it, this is really just a suggestion.
Sure the modified doc may be more useful than the good ole vanilla townie but seriously, we don't have a fucking clue yet on what the role modifier does. IMO we find that out tonight to get a better understanding on the whole modified doc thing. That should be a key part of this personally.

Also, how about we announce who we're protecting before the night? Or has that been suggested yet, just wondering if that would be any better.
Also, I won't leave a lynch atm, it seems like we're already pressuring enough to me. Will just end up with me not retracting and causing bother for town.

what do you mean we dont know what the role modifier does? It clearly states what it does lol. Also the problem with announcing your night action is that you are basically telling the mafia which is the safest kill for them which isnt very good for town.

Mafia would just target people who have used their self-protect but not their other-protect, or people with both whom they don't think would use their self-protect that night. Claiming what protect you used would clarify the information the Mafia has without adding much constructive information to the Town.
But I think he may be onto something there. Maybe. Could we turn this into a hypo-claiming thing of sorts? How would that work if it could?

by Willhiema L. Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:48 pm

Himashi G. wrote:
Willhiema L. wrote:
Kimyo N. wrote:
Willhiema L. wrote:
Azumi A. wrote:
Willhiema L. wrote:
Satoru S. wrote:Well my lynch on Kinjo got no reaction whatsoever which ik was random lynch but was hoping for something atleast. Also we need to discuss not bout scum first but about the mechanic of the game, this would be the doc protects.
We do? Well you are only allowed to protect twice....once urself and once someone else...

I have an idea, how about after every night the people who protected say if they did or not, but not reveal who they protected. This will create a mini list on the potential confo docs. Of course i am aware that mafia will try to fake being a doc and say "I used my protection!" Which i guess is a bit of a flaw which i dont quite know how to cleanly solve. But maybe the plan could get us closer to the truth?

In fact we could reveal who we protected because 1.) Its gonna be a bit like dethy but much more vague. 2.) Someone can protect him accordingly on what way he protected.

I do want to here everyones thoughts about this. I am not sure if this might work so i want a collective mind into this than my NFE mind. In fact we can make an entirely new plan and scratch this one lol (but with good reason) .

I feel that while the idea is pretty good, it's VERY flawed, as if someone somehow manages to pull off a protection that saves someone it gives 1 problem, though that problem is big enough to make it a small advantage only, and you have already said it. Mafia fakeclaims. Say I would protect someone night 1 and no one gets killed, no one claims to have protected except for me, wouldn't that be scummy? Only 1 person protected and somehow protected the right person... at night 1? In that case suspicion would be on me while I could very well have actually just been really lucky with my protection, or maybe the mafia decided to not kill and see what would happen, see if they could blow some protections and inspections. Which brings me to the next point.

We could use our protections as vague inspections. Say someone dies night 1 and 1 of us protected for example sunreeser, then he isn't cleared, and in the same situation if no one dies then sunreeser would be a bit more clean. Though of course as I'm saying this the mafia is reading it too so they'll be thinking about tactics on that too... (I said sunreeser because that's the only name I can spell from memory)
That is true, i also did think it was kinda flawed buti thought maybe we can make it less flawed. Also yeah thats sorta what i meant with "Its gonna be like dethy but a lot more vague" because we use protections as inspections. Basically what i was aiming for was a way to exploit the modified doc role since this is basically Vanilla but with Modified Docs instead of Vanilla Townies. So the fact that there is a more powerful role than a vanilla townie should be something that can be used to our advantage.

It would be nice if we thought about exactly how we are gonna execute this strat however if this does distract us from what is really going on then don't worry about it, this is really just a suggestion.
Sure the modified doc may be more useful than the good ole vanilla townie but seriously, we don't have a fucking clue yet on what the role modifier does. IMO we find that out tonight to get a better understanding on the whole modified doc thing. That should be a key part of this personally.

Also, how about we announce who we're protecting before the night? Or has that been suggested yet, just wondering if that would be any better.
Also, I won't leave a lynch atm, it seems like we're already pressuring enough to me. Will just end up with me not retracting and causing bother for town.

what do you mean we dont know what the role modifier does? It clearly states what it does lol. Also the problem with announcing your night action is that you are basically telling the mafia which is the safest kill for them which isnt very good for town.
Mafia would just target people who have used their self-protect but not their other-protect, or people with both whom they don't think would use their self-protect that night. Claiming what protect you used would clarify the information the Mafia has without adding much constructive information to the Town.
But I think he may be onto something there. Maybe. Could we turn this into a hypo-claiming thing of sorts? How would that work if it could?

If someone reveals they have used self protect, then one person should protect him and if they have used a someone else protect then they can protect themselves. That could be a solution to the problem you suggested. But what do you mean by "hypo-claiming"? I guess this is why I should keep up with the new mafia terms lol.

by Himashi G. Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:59 pm

Hypo claiming is where, if there is a cop, but he doesn't want to claim, everybody makes up claims every day until the cop dies, so then you can go back and see what the real claims were from previous days. It's extremely effective in larger games.
Is there any logical way to implement this into this game? I don't see anything myself, what about you?

by Willhiema L. Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:17 pm

Himashi G. wrote:Hypo claiming is where, if there is a cop, but he doesn't want to claim, everybody makes up claims every day until the cop dies, so then you can go back and see what the real claims were from previous days. It's extremely effective in larger games.
Is there any logical way to implement this into this game? I don't see anything myself, what about you?

Oh yeah i remember that being used in 8p classic since it used to be so broken. But yeah the issue here is that hypo claiming uses 1 true cop and a billion fake ones. But in this case, we have 9 docs..... maybe it can work to confuse mafia as to which person to kill? Not quite sure.

by Satoru S. Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:33 pm

tbh the docs is jus filler incase everybody decides to protect at the same time and stuff. You wont clean anybody because of so many doc protects going on and pretty easy for mafia to fakeclaim.

The only reason that mafia will mess up is if they choke and claim to protected twice.

Tbh if a person for example says they protected themselves and there was 0 deaths but another person did it aswell and then you got mafia saying they also protected well you got yourself a vanilla. The only way imo to make this useful is either

A.) do not protect at all and save the doc protects until the game gets smaller to when we could easily handle the amount of protects (This one I'm not sure as you will need to use math for this one and gonna be busy today so tomorrow most likely will solve it. The variable will be the self and other protects by the number of players, or combine both the self and other protects so yeah, gonna need ot figure it out)

B.) nobody protects in the same order thus mafia jus cant claim they used their protects twice in the first 2 nights.

by Satoru S. Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:39 pm

option b will need to be discussed here in order to avoid confusion by everybody suggesting who protects who or if to self protect and then do it. If you decide to mindgame, jus state what you did differently from what was suggested in the next day.

C.) ignore the doc protects and just play as vanilla.

(btw we should still do the math if we want to use the doc mechanics in this game. By math I mean all the possibilities and protections plus on what mafia could do). I'm rushing with this since I gtg now but will explain it better if needed and emphasize on it more.

by Terri E. Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:44 pm

I honestly can't see a way we can plan out a strategy here without mafia finding a way to play around it. In the end, it's still vanilla.

by Azumi A. Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:53 am

*claps* the discussions gave me an idea. It does indeed benefit to discuss tactics, now for this I'm going to need to protect someone tonight, so I'll be protecting wilhiema. can't really explain what the point of this is quite yet.

by Sunreeser Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:06 am

I am looking forward to see what Azumi A. can come up with because personally, since there is no investigative roles nor useful information from doc protects, I must agree with Terri E. that it is vanilla with a chance for a townie to live.

by Willhiema L. Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:00 am

Azumi A. wrote:*claps* the discussions gave me an idea. It does indeed benefit to discuss tactics, now for this I'm going to need to protect someone tonight, so I'll be protecting wilhiema. can't really explain what the point of this is quite yet.

I believe i know exactly what you are trying to achieve, if I am right then its a really good idea however the issue here is that it kinda only works once per player..... if this doesnt connect with ur idea whatsoever then ignore ot coz i probs predicted ur idea incorrectly lol

by Dayton B. Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:02 am

uh something that could help is reading through the old games to find out a players style and see if any player here has that style. Don't have that much time right now I'll make another post later.

by Willhiema L. Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:02 am

Also satoru you might wanna explain that in more detail when you get back coz i didnt understand da fuck what you said.... sorry

by Willhiema L. Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:05 am

Dayton B. wrote:uh something that could help is reading through the old games to find out a players style and see if any player here has that style. Don't have that much time right now I'll make another post later.

Isnt this more of a Player Guessing strat? I dont understand how matching up game styles shows who is mafia or not, coz if say you do find the identical person to a previous game then they could have a similar style whether or not they are mafia.

by **ajhockeystar** Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:11 pm

Votecount 1.3
******************************
Koji I.(2)- Satoru S., Sunreeser
Dayton B.(1)- Willhiema L.
Toby J.(1)- Terri E.
Terri E.(1)- Misawo M.
Willhiema L.(0)-
Himashi G.(0)-
Misawo M.(0)-
Sunreeser(0)-
Rossi U.(0)-
Azumi A.(0)-
Kimyo N.(0)-
Satoru S.(0)-
Not Voting(7)- Himashi G., Rossi U., Toby J., Koji I., Dayton B., Azumi A., Kimyo N.
******************************
There are 12 alive so it takes 7 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Sunday the 25th at 9pm EST.

If the deadline was now, Koji I. would be lynched.

by Kimyo N. Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:39 pm

Oh god, I'm stupid. Sorry bout that, i wasn't thinking, bit offput atm. An thanks for helping me understan the thing about the strats etc. Also with the discussion of strats, isn't it a bit counterproductive as terri said? I don't get the point in all that if the mafia can bloody adapt so easily. Lemme have a look at things some more and then I'll report back i guess.

by Misawo M. Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:58 pm

bah, apologies for the inactivity, reading up.

by Toby J. Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:46 am

Sorry guys, I completely forgot about this.
And were any reasons specified for the lynchs or was it just random? because if Koji was mafia, I'm guessing someone would have said something by now to prevent him from getting lynched D1
Just saying.

by Misawo M. Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:19 am

No reads yet.

I think in the event of a save, claiming makes sense since it could possibly clear someone, or at least make it easier.

Mod: Is No Killing allowed?

by Misawo M. Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:21 am

Dayton B. wrote:
Willhiema L. wrote:
Kimyo N. wrote:
Toby J. wrote:Alright, Pretty sure this will be the dead game this time
Anyway, Hello everyone.
Well then, let's make it not the dead game.
I believe that this is much easier said than done. This game, despite being the very first day, is already on the wrong track in terms of inactiveness.

I want to make a few points clear. Since this game isnt gonna be the most active, we are not gonna be lynching inactives because of logic like "inactive = useless, useless = getting lynched" coz thats just ridiculous. If you think someone needs to be lynched then you need to supply good evidence and question him. If they are inactive then its a waiting game until something happens where lynching inactives is a good idea. But that definitely isnt a good idea at the start of the game. Now my only fear here is that mafia change their style of play to "be inactive and hope to win" but the good thing is, its obvious when mafia do it.
To be honest lynching inactive isn't the worse thing since you still get info from them and from a slow moving game that info can help a lot.

How so?

by **ajhockeystar** Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:27 am

Misawo M. wrote:No reads yet.

I think in the event of a save, claiming makes sense since it could possibly clear someone, or at least make it easier.

Mod: Is No Killing allowed?

Yes.

by Sunreeser Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:15 am

Well, the deadline is approaching very near and Koji didn't say much else. Do we all think he is the best lynch option? Or lynching someone else/nling is the better option?

Personally, I will keep my lynch. Still want feedback tho.

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