Game 12: Vengeful Mafia Mafia

Brendan T. wrote:I took the time to put together a complete readlist:

Thank you for that, however i would like to point out stuff that i disagree/not undersrand.

Natchi: Was inactive in the beginning but came back to be more active ( not like I can judge).  Since they’ve been back all I really see from them is stating what people are saying and asking people for their opinions, never really stating much of their own.  Seems a little scummy to me, but not enough to validate a lynch.  Slightly scum overall.

Interesting, however he has been commenting and pressing on posts from other people, giving his opinion about them so he has been bringing stuff from his own. I guess my only problem is he hasnt brought up like a readlist or something to show what he thinks about everyone rather than just specific posts.

Warden:   Mostly has been discussing scumreading tactics until very recently when he posted his own readlist, which I mostly agree with.   Although some of his ideas I don’t agree with, I can understand his reasoning on most of them.  Neutral overall.

It would be nice if you told us what are the ideas that you disagree and why. I mean i guess there is only one idea that he has which is the PoE tho. Also he only actually discussed 1 tactic and it was pretty bad  (not trying to be rude but its widely accepted now).

Mizuho: I honestly didn’t read through all 7 pages of dialogue, mostly because I’d read most of it before and it’s a lot of the same stuff throughout.  He provides multiple valid reasons for a lot of his lynches, yet just reading through his posts makes me feel like he’s kinda scummy.  Neutral overall.

Again I would appreciate if you elaborated on the "something that makes you feel I am scummy" it helps with the discussion.

Agatha: Inactive early, but we’ve been over that.  Made a readlist extremely early, but that’s pretty outdated now and could use an update.  Even though he makes good points in discussion, something about his demeanor and the way presents his ideas strikes me as scummy.   Scummy overall.

Once again I would like you to elaborate on that "something".  

I suspect Agatha the most honestly but I could easily be completely wrong.

Natchi F. wrote:

Mizuho N. wrote:It has been a while since I put up a proper readlist so I will do that now. So lets begin!

Kezoki Q.- Neutral
A good contributor to town, but a scummy one nonetheless.
Because in your posts you seem to be wanting for something to happen, rather than just going with the flow, posting a readlist here and there, and just post stuff that makes you look town but doesnt actually help.

Warden H.- Leaning Scum
Am I the only one who doesnt think you are town? lmao.

Warden H. wrote:Mod: Sub out all the inactives?

I like osashi for town, the way she's pushing kezoki doesnt seem forced or desperate.

This is just an example as this is not the only post that makes me think this, but this gives me the impression that you are coasting through the game. I am not talking about the activeness by the way... The fact that you only say your town reads make me think this because it sorta has this feeling that you are getting on people's good side, of course you put me down as null but then again it could be the fact you dont wanna be obvious. (I am not talking about the most recent post you did because you never actually elaborated yet, you just stated them) Also the fact that you mention Kezoki's name but not give a read for him also strikes me. Because you obviously know what he has done since you are seen the game and gave a read on Osashi. One conclusion I can draw from this is that you want to keep your posts brief and not mention Kezoki becuase you noticed the Kezoki is the type to attack you if he is involved in one of your posts. So you didnt want to get into any sort of trouble and keep safe. One more thing, I really disliked how you completely ignored the Kezoki vs Osashi thing which is arguably the most important case at the time and just kept pressing. And the statement you pressed with which was:

Warden H. wrote: Mizuno, could you explain what you concluded from the "everyone is scum" list?

This really annoyed me, not only is it because it was literally the only thing you said and completely ignoring what was happening, it was also because I already explained the point of the scumlist so really this basically isnt useful at all and just pointless pressing.

Natchi F.- Leaning Town

I was so happy when you subbed in, your contribution to town with your analytic posts is excellent! The problem is you have streaks of inactiveness and it would be really nice if you were active as well as analysing in pro-town standard.

Brendan T.- Leaning Scum

Brendan T. wrote:Hey guys, REALLY sorry about the whole inactive thing, went on a vacation then never bothered to catch up. Anyhow I'm here now and have read through all 12 pages of discussion. I dont feel capable of putting together a read list just yet, but I may make one soon. Just from skimming Im finding Kenzo as the scummiest. More opinions to come.

I am gonna quote this not because of the Kenzo thing because that has been discussed. But i can't help notice the fact he said "then never bothered to catch up". Not very towny imo. Gives me the impression that you dont want town to excel, not exactly what a townie would do right? Also I would appreciate it more if you elaborated on everyone instead of grouping them with a general view.

I cut out anything i'm not talking about.

RE: Kezoki - What is the stuff that makes him look town but doesn't actually help?

I said he doesn't  do it, you might wanna re-read it lol

RE: Warden - In that post, he definitely mentions the conflict between Kezoki and Osashi and it doesn't look like he ignored it at all. He also "pressed you" because he didn't think that the "everyone is scum" list was useful at all, not to annoy you or draw away from the issue at hand.

I meant the fight in general, he definitely didnt because he said "explain what you concluded from the everyone is scum list". This was of course while the battle was pretty heated up and he didnt mention anything about it then he went inactive for ages.

Also I already explained the reasoning for a scumlist. TWICE. Before he questioned me later in the game. So why do it again? Surely he doesnt want me to repeat myself for the 3rd time...

RE: me - Yeah, sorry about the inactivity. I'll try to post whenever I can.
RE: Brendan - I'm honestly thinking that it was just what he had seen others say about kenzo, RE: His lurking and noncontribution. There's no other logical explanation; if he was scum, why would he randomly out of the blue say that Kenzo is scummy AFTER HE IS LYNCHED? That wouldn't make any sense to do as scum, and honestly looks to me like a mistake made from not reading carefully enough instead of a scum move... which... I still don't understand how missing something makes you scum. Unless i'm missing the entire point of why you guys think Brendan is scummy, in which case, sorry : /

I never addressed that in my readlist because I also think that he isnt scummy for that reason.

List of people from not scummy to scummy in my opinion
Mizuho - Agatha - Kezoki - Warden - Brendan - Nicolai - Wakana

Now for something I've seen others talk about, but not actually devote posts (or a section of them) to!
Possible scumteams!

First up, we've got Natchi, Agatha, and Kezoki!
Surprised i've included myself? Me too!

If Tori P. Was here then he would call you scum for putting yourself down as scum. In my opinion that is ridiculous lol.

However, this scumteam makes all kinds of sense. Kezoki has townread me in every. single. reads. post. he's. had. I've done the exact same thing for him. Given that most see at least one of us as town and kind of trust us, wouldn't it make perfect sense for us to be teamed up?
And then Agatha comes in. She brings up some weak reasoning that would make me scummy but reverses her stance after thinking about it a bit. Bussing? It definitely looks like it! She also asks to be pardoned for forgetting about the game and asks for a day to prove herself, and hey, Kezoki says sure! This probably singlehandedly saves Agatha for the time being, as Mizuho also agrees to save Agatha for the moment. Oh, and let's not forget how Natchi's rage-induced fury moved the target from Agatha to Jenina, where Kezoki happily and quickly switched his vote from the former to the latter. Please note: events may not be in chronological order, and they may be wrong. I'm doing this all from memory.
There is one thing that could put this to rest, although there are likely also others that i'm just plain not thinking of right now. What is that, you ask? It's that I suggest for both Osashi and Kezoki to lynch Agatha instead of each other since they have brought her up as a possible lynch target in their posts.

Take that team as you will.

Next?
Why, we've got Wakana, Warden and Mizuho!
Wakana and Warden have been extremely inactive, while Mizuho has pretty much led the town. Mizuho has also brought up the possibility of Warden being in a scumteam, but has also focused on Nicolai more, putting him in the two possible scumteams she has brought up. Warden and Wakana have also both townread each other (I think) and although warden and Mizuho have been fighting, the possibility could certainly be bussing, given that they aren't voting each other and don't seem to have voting each other as their highest priority, unlike the Osashi/Kezoki fights. Anyways, what i'm saying here is that Mizuho could lead the town while Warden and Wakana coast behind the scenes, not gathering very much attention.

The problem is I dont think bussing could get this extreme.

Alright, I had a lot more that I could write, but I am very tired and I want to sleep. I know this is unfinished and probably has a quintillion flaws, but i'll add to it and clarify any questions people may have tomorrow.

Kezoki Q. wrote:Wakana - Scum: No posts in a while. And even then most of the posts were either filler, or saying something that was already said by someone else. "So somebody want to sum it up for me please" this was posted 10 min before the deadline, knowing full well no one could sum up 4 whole pages in less than 10 min, I'd say he just said this to make it seem like he tried to participate in the lynch.

Yeah I agree that Wakana has been waaay too inactive. Like seriously, i get loads of homework and other stuff and I still post frequently. I am not sure if its just bad time managment or if you are actually trying to passively lurk. The problen with your read, Kezoki, is that how do you know that she knows deadline is in 10 mins? I mean AJ is normally late and if it was me, I wouldnt have checked the time at all and just posted. So i think that point is a bit flawed.

Agatha - Neutral: My only neutral read as I don't even know what to think about her (yes, her). After I gave her a chance, she convinced me with a pretty good read list and some good posts that she was town, that was until just before the last deadline, where she got me confused by accusing people left and right, posting some stuff I didn't understand, and jumping on Mizuho (I think), seeing as there are some scummier players, I'm deeming her as neutral.

I dont think she was jumping on me and she did say that you apparently told her to point out my flaws. But yeah I mean its good to be active but I think there were some unnecessary posts, sorta overloaded the page.

Agatha A. wrote:Kezoki Q.: While he isn't as quick to lynch anymore he still doesn't seem to hesitate much when it comes to lynching, though he seems to be trying to help town. There are some other odd things about him, statements that make me think "did you read what I just said or what?", most of those times the way he says it makes others seem more scummy though it's mostly just them saying something helpful for town and him "reading over" the keywords, the things that make it not scummy... Leaning scum

He only did that once i think which was to you. I dont think this makes him scummy per se. But i do agree Kezoki jumps to conclusions too quickly even though he has lowered the lynch speed a bit.


Natchi F.: honest, doesn't exclude the option of him being in a scumteam, mostly reacts to what others say though, only a few of his posts weren't reactions, which is a bit scummy, though overall I'd say he's leaning town.

Filler incoming! If Tori P. Was here then she is gonna say you and Natchi are a scumteam, one for him including himself in a scumteam list and two, for saying its towny. Poor Robert O. Kept being attacked     but yeah I think what Tori said is ridiculous and I agree with your read Agatha.

Warden H.: Doesn't really talk all that much but talks more than some people in the game *cough* nicolai, brendan, wakana *cough* and what warden says usually makes sense... though not all of it is just logical, some things are just about feelings, which I appreciate too. After all, logic can't tell us if we're in love, that's something feelings do. leaning town.

Interesting, for me his mindset is much more in the logical end.

Mizuho N.: Talks a lot, though there are many fillers, and while most things mizuho says help town it's like warden said, there's something odd about it. I just can't quite place it... but the fact there's something odd about it remains. Logic says "town", feeling says "adgeahgdjaekgadhge" and I can't quite understand that language yet... though it's something like "don't trust mizuho, they're scum!", so yeah... seeing as I know several people who would do psanon games and who are good enough to lead town while being mafia... leaning scum.

This makes me slightly offended and a bit annoyed. What I can infer from this is that you are sorta disregarding the fact that I actually try to help town. The combination of "Talks a lot" and "Many fillers" means that I aam shitposting. Heck you even contradicted yourself! How can "most things Mizuho says help town" when I have MANY fillers? Doesnt work.... One last thing, how can you deem me as scum when the reason you have was because your "voice" tells you to. Of what I can understand from this, it basically says "Yeah no one really cares if Mizuho is helping town, something tells me he is scum, so he is scum, goodbye". Doesnt work like that dude.

Agatha A. wrote:I get what you mean, though I didn't exactly mean it like that, though that's my fault for being bad at wording things correctly. So the many fillers things is that while most of the posts are actually just to help town there are also some fillers and semi-fillers, and with how much you say even if it's 1 in 10 it's a lot imo so yeah... and they're also inside useful posts a big part of the time. The thing with the voice in my head, I am not ignoring that you're helping town, though there's something odd. You are in fact the one that told me that if something's saying something illogical is actually how it is, chances are it is actually logical, but you just don't know why. Just following your advice. also, I should probably add that it's "slightly" leaning scum, I'm not sure who I would see as the scum team and who is the most scummy to me... I just don't know... I just know that atm I really don't trust anyone much more than a "leaning town" read, no one that really jumps out to me as town.

Nicolai I. wrote:guys I'm villy
let me know if/whom i should vote