Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Jeremiah W. on Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:37 pm

Lynch Cherry.
Last one to get registered is always scum + they clearly hate each other, so they wouldn't mind if they get lynched.
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Emmy A. on Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:39 pm

Caroline M. wrote:
Caroline M. wrote:well let's hope this hydra goes a bit better than the last one

I agree! Lets put on a dazzling performance shall we?

A dazzling scum performance? I see now.
Lynch Caroline M.
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Clara H. on Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:06 pm

lynch Jeremiah W

Too energetic for me
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Cherry P. on Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:10 pm

Lynch Jeremiah W.

FOS on anima
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Jeremiah W. on Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:21 pm

Ok time to play the game.

Is OMGUS during RVS a thing? I honestly don't remember. I don't necessarily have an issue with it, but people like to bandwagon on the weirdest things in these games.

Also, isn't this essentially vanilla with the added element of everyone being a false positive for some reason? Unless there's a hidden tracker/watcher the fruit giving essentially means nothing, and from what I can tell the fruit giving isn't even compulsive so town has no actual reason to give fruit.

I've apparently already made my RVS vote so I'll keep it as is to avoid confusion.
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Cherry P. on Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:30 pm

nah i lynched you because i did it at the start of the game and I don't like not following through
i dont really understand the point of the fruit either

shifting your vote is fine and i doubt people even care (maybe i'm wrong)

legitimate fos on anima though, i don't like that one of them came on and didn't confirm (strikes me as strange)
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Emmy A. on Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:12 pm

Cherry P. wrote:nah i lynched you because i did it at the start of the game and I don't like not following through
i dont really understand the point of the fruit either

shifting your vote is fine and i doubt people even care (maybe i'm wrong)

legitimate fos on anima though, i don't like that one of them came on and didn't confirm (strikes me as strange)
Isn't this what got Kazalie shot last game? I don't see what it means for their alignment. Besides, the other Anima did confirm and can talk to us.
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Jeremiah W. on Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:14 pm

FoSing someone who hasn't even posted anything related to the game is kinda weird.
You timed your lynch really weirdly, so it seemed like it was OMGUS and pre-game lynching =/= You have to follow that lynch during the game.

This is a really weird slot, that I would appreciate more pressure on.
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Jeremiah W. on Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:15 pm

The previous post I made was about Cherry's most recent post (at that time).
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Emmy A. on Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:30 pm

Jeremiah W. wrote:Ok time to play the game.

Is OMGUS during RVS a thing?  I honestly don't remember.  I don't necessarily have an issue with it, but people like to bandwagon on the weirdest things in these games.

Also, isn't this essentially vanilla with the added element of everyone being a false positive for some reason?  Unless there's a hidden tracker/watcher the fruit giving essentially means nothing, and from what I can tell the fruit giving isn't even compulsive so town has no actual reason to give fruit.

I've apparently already made my RVS vote so I'll keep it as is to avoid confusion.

RVS is RVS. It is a "Random Voting Stage", and personally I have no problems with 2 lynch wagons or OMGUS during RVS; however, I do have a problem with RVS being uncallingly prolonged --- at one point we gotta start scumhunting. RVS is just to get everyone active and to see their reactions (Which, I might comment, I haven't really seen any bad reactions which is good).

There are no hidden elements to this game (Correct me if I am wrong). Fruit is actually very important, since we can catch scum using POE. As the gamelink says, Mafia may not Fruit and Kill on the same night, which is very important since it makes it easier to catch scum. Of course, we have to beware on the fact Mafia might fake their fruit, and that "The person who is fruited is not notified how many fruit they get." Either way, it is basically a Vanilla that has an aspect that slightly benefits town.

Also, did anyone answer my question on how to tag people? Is the only way to quote them?
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Emmy A. on Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:41 pm

Even quoting people won't do anything, we just have to wait until they come online and hope people respond.

I'd been looking at other games of the theme trying to figure out the fruit thing, and it seems I've taken the words right out of my mouth.
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Jeremiah W. on Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:19 pm

Emmy A. wrote:Fruit is actually very important, since we can catch scum using POE. As the gamelink says, Mafia may not Fruit and Kill on the same night, which is very important since it makes it easier to catch scum. Of course, we have to beware on the fact Mafia might fake their fruit, and that "The person who is fruited is not notified how many fruit they get." Either way, it is basically a Vanilla that has an aspect that slightly benefits town.

I hadn't considered predetermined targets to allow town to semi confirm themselves, that's actually a fairly solid plan. It could give us a decent way to narrow down our votes each day, and while mafia are able to give fruit as well as lie about whether or not they received any, it can still allow us to determine our first few lynches.
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Emmy A. on Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:55 pm

Mafia's not served well by lying about whether they received fruit, especially if we make a circle-the second the person who passed to them is lynched that Mafia member would be confirmed.

We could use the playerlist perhaps and have everyone pass fruit to the next person down. Like Jeremiah said it can help determine our next few lynches, and it might also slow things down if the Mafia decides to not kill in order to keep up with the circle.

The only problem is the chance that the Mafia are two people right next to each other, but that chance is small.
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Anima V. on Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:38 am

I can't really say much in defense of my partner ;;
They haven't said anything in the quicktopic atm either

One thing I realized about this setup is that nobody is forced to send fruit during the game. The best way to use fruit, then, is to force everyone to use it; what do you all think about creating daisy chains for the first 2 nights?
If somebody randomizes all of our names into a ring, and we fruit the person next in the chain. wouldn't we guarantee two free nights with no kill, barring the scumpartners are next to each other on the daisy chain?
I'm going to try to simulate the possible scenarios that arise when we make this daisy chain:
Scenario A: scum decide not to kill for 2 nights. Great! We get 2 nights free of charge and have more lynches at our hands, and then play regular vanilla for the rest of the game.
Scenario B: one of the two scum decided to nk the person next to them in the chain. Everybody would receive fruit, so the killer must be the person that was supposed to fruit the dead target, unless the two scum were adjacent to each other. (I'll get back to this scenario later).  Correct me if I'm wrong on this.
A third scenario involves scum killing someone other than the person next in the daisy chain. Since the killing scum wouldn't be able to send fruit, the person in front of the killing scum wouldn't receive fruit. The second non-killing scum could make up for that by sending fruit to the person in front of the killing scum, but that would still leave one person with no fruit; the person behind the person claiming no fruit must be scum, regardless of whether they killed or not. I don't think this is a play scum would make in any circumstance. (Again, correct me if I'm wrong.)
I also considered scum lying about receiving fruit, but this is also no play in my opinion; all this does is create a 1v1 between the person who claims to have sent fruit, and the scum who lied about receiving any fruit.
The final scenario is simply when the two scum are adjacent in the daisy chain; this is simply bad luck; everyone would receive fruit, and somebody dies in the process. It would also look exactly like the same scenario as when scum kills the person in front of them in the daisy chain. If somebody is nightkilled and everybody claims to have received fruit, we then lynch the person behind the n1 victim; if they are scum, great! The second scum could be anywhere in the chain. If they aren't scum, we know that the two scum are adjacent to each other in the daisy chain, which is invaluable information in itself.

I have some other things to say about what should happen when day 2 starts, but I'd like that information hidden at this point. If anyone sees any loopholes in this plan that scum could potentially take advantage of, let me know.
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Cherry P. on Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:43 am

Emmy A. wrote:
Cherry P. wrote:nah i lynched you because i did it at the start of the game and I don't like not following through
i dont really understand the point of the fruit either

shifting your vote is fine and i doubt people even care (maybe i'm wrong)

legitimate fos on anima though, i don't like that one of them came on and didn't confirm (strikes me as strange)
Isn't this what got Kazalie shot last game? I don't see what it means for their alignment. Besides, the other Anima did confirm and can talk to us.
idk
its something that struck me as weird which is why i pointed it out

Jeremiah W. wrote:FoSing someone who hasn't even posted anything related to the game is kinda weird.
You timed your lynch really weirdly, so it seemed like it was OMGUS and pre-game lynching =/= You have to follow that lynch during the game.

This is a really weird slot, that I would appreciate more pressure on.
im aware, its something i personally like to do
timing isnt really my fault since i lynched as soon as i got on a computer and read the game post-game start

Anima V. wrote:I can't really say much in defense of my partner ;;
They haven't said anything in the quicktopic atm either

One thing I realized about this setup is that nobody is forced to send fruit during the game. The best way to use fruit, then, is to force everyone to use it; what do you all think about creating daisy chains for the first 2 nights?
If somebody randomizes all of our names into a ring, and we fruit the person next in the chain. wouldn't we guarantee two free nights with no kill, barring the scumpartners are next to each other on the daisy chain?
I'm going to try to simulate the possible scenarios that arise when we make this daisy chain:
Scenario A: scum decide not to kill for 2 nights. Great! We get 2 nights free of charge and have more lynches at our hands, and then play regular vanilla for the rest of the game.
Scenario B: one of the two scum decided to nk the person next to them in the chain. Everybody would receive fruit, so the killer must be the person that was supposed to fruit the dead target, unless the two scum were adjacent to each other. (I'll get back to this scenario later).  Correct me if I'm wrong on this.
A third scenario involves scum killing someone other than the person next in the daisy chain. Since the killing scum wouldn't be able to send fruit, the person in front of the killing scum wouldn't receive fruit. The second non-killing scum could make up for that by sending fruit to the person in front of the killing scum, but that would still leave one person with no fruit; the person behind the person claiming no fruit must be scum, regardless of whether they killed or not. I don't think this is a play scum would make in any circumstance. (Again, correct me if I'm wrong.)
I also considered scum lying about receiving fruit, but this is also no play in my opinion; all this does is create a 1v1 between the person who claims to have sent fruit, and the scum who lied about receiving any fruit.
The final scenario is simply when the two scum are adjacent in the daisy chain; this is simply bad luck; everyone would receive fruit, and somebody dies in the process. It would also look exactly like the same scenario as when scum kills the person in front of them in the daisy chain. If somebody is nightkilled and everybody claims to have received fruit, we then lynch the person behind the n1 victim; if they are scum, great! The second scum could be anywhere in the chain. If they aren't scum, we know that the two scum are adjacent to each other in the daisy chain, which is invaluable information in itself.

I have some other things to say about what should happen when day 2 starts, but I'd like that information hidden at this point. If anyone sees any loopholes in this plan that scum could potentially take advantage of, let me know.
thats fair enough
can mafia not send fruit and kill at the same time?
if not the plan sounds good, giving us two days of free discussion and no nightkills is extremely good
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Anima V. on Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:46 am

Wow Emmy mentioned the circle strategy right as I was writing mine down. At least that means I'm on the right track? I think using the playerlist for the first chain is fine for night 1; it would prevent scum from potentially manipulating a "random" circle to their benefit.
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Anima V. on Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:47 am

and no, mafia cannot send fruit and kill at the same time.
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Jeremiah W. on Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:53 am

Anima V. wrote:I can't really say much in defense of my partner ;;
They haven't said anything in the quicktopic atm either

One thing I realized about this setup is that nobody is forced to send fruit during the game. The best way to use fruit, then, is to force everyone to use it; what do you all think about creating daisy chains for the first 2 nights?
If somebody randomizes all of our names into a ring, and we fruit the person next in the chain. wouldn't we guarantee two free nights with no kill, barring the scumpartners are next to each other on the daisy chain?
I'm going to try to simulate the possible scenarios that arise when we make this daisy chain:
Scenario A: scum decide not to kill for 2 nights. Great! We get 2 nights free of charge and have more lynches at our hands, and then play regular vanilla for the rest of the game.
Scenario B: one of the two scum decided to nk the person next to them in the chain. Everybody would receive fruit, so the killer must be the person that was supposed to fruit the dead target, unless the two scum were adjacent to each other. (I'll get back to this scenario later).  Correct me if I'm wrong on this.
A third scenario involves scum killing someone other than the person next in the daisy chain. Since the killing scum wouldn't be able to send fruit, the person in front of the killing scum wouldn't receive fruit. The second non-killing scum could make up for that by sending fruit to the person in front of the killing scum, but that would still leave one person with no fruit; the person behind the person claiming no fruit must be scum, regardless of whether they killed or not. I don't think this is a play scum would make in any circumstance. (Again, correct me if I'm wrong.)
I also considered scum lying about receiving fruit, but this is also no play in my opinion; all this does is create a 1v1 between the person who claims to have sent fruit, and the scum who lied about receiving any fruit.
The final scenario is simply when the two scum are adjacent in the daisy chain; this is simply bad luck; everyone would receive fruit, and somebody dies in the process. It would also look exactly like the same scenario as when scum kills the person in front of them in the daisy chain. If somebody is nightkilled and everybody claims to have received fruit, we then lynch the person behind the n1 victim; if they are scum, great! The second scum could be anywhere in the chain. If they aren't scum, we know that the two scum are adjacent to each other in the daisy chain, which is invaluable information in itself.

I have some other things to say about what should happen when day 2 starts, but I'd like that information hidden at this point. If anyone sees any loopholes in this plan that scum could potentially take advantage of, let me know.

Firstly, quicktopic for town aren't unlocked during day. Mod: Do mafia have daytalk?
Secondly, I think just using a circle method for fruiting is just a more efficient tactic in general and easier to do, so I think we should do that.
Thirdly, if you say you have information that is hidden, scum is most likely gonna kill you so you don't say that info (note: Sanpei in Game 29), so I think you should refrain from saying such things.
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Cherry P. on Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:06 am

mafia technically shouldnt have daytalk (thats how its been in previous games) but my chat w/ other cherry isnt locked so i assume its probably unlocked right now
confirmed with aj that mafia cannot send fruit and kill, so we definitely ought to use that tonight (and if a kill does go off, we can narrow down possible scum to groups of two). Not sure if doing the latter part of that is a good idea though, since it might obscure legitimate scumhunting.
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Cherry P. on Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:07 am

and yeah for cycling just sending fruit to the person below you on the playerlist (with the person on the bottom going to the person on the top) could work.
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Cherry P. on Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:08 am

or the person above with the person on top sending to person on bottom if you guys prefer that
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Cherry P. on Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:14 am

oh yeah i remember now the reason i planned on lynching you pre-game start, jeremiah, was that whichever one of you jokingly said that they shouldn't be too scummy so that they don't get lynched looked bad to me due to an excessive amount of self-awareness.
why i see that as negative is that town who are like this can hold back from saying useful info because they're afraid that they could be seen as scummy for their thought process and thus useful discussion that could have occurred was stifled.
i see it as scummy because scum tend to look over all of their posts and do their best to make sure that they don't look bad, and even talking about that in a joking manner does convey this self-awareness /self-censorship/whatever
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by ajhockeystar on Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:24 am

Nobody has day talk.
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Emmy A. on Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:41 am

Mafia shouldn't have daytalk; this isn't a Nightless theme.
I agree that Anima should give all her thoughts before the end of the day, but if we go through with this circle it does mean there is a reduced chance of her or anyone else dying.
I don't think it really matters if we go up or down @Cherry, just as long as we make it clear to everyone which we choose.

Anima's post seems well informed but also easy for scum to fake (because it's a lot of just analyzing different scenarios), but I also don't think scum opens up with an attempt to break the setup in town's favor. Light townlean here?

Cherry seems to be trying to use pregame things to scumhunt, and imo the things she's looking at don't actually mean anything. There's the FoS on Anima for half of her not confirming, and then there's Jeremiah's early posts. Let's say Jeremiah's pregame posts did have value in when it comes to scumhunting (I don't think they do). If he was looking over his posts the way you say he was, wouldn't it make sense for him to look over the strikethrough posts and thus not make them? Also I don't think Jeremiah would tell his partner "we can't be scummy or else we'll get lynched day 1" in the thread like that if he was being serious, regardless of strikethrough.

I also don't like how Cherry started off with "I don't like not following through" and "it's something I personally like to do" regarding her vote on Jeremiah and then went back onto her pregame vote as if she felt like she had to justify her first in game RVS vote with reasoning. (Kind of like "I randvoted. Oh by the way it's not actually random so it wasn't an omgus in RVS like you suggested.") That feels like self consciousness to me and I will join you in pressuring Cherry.

Unlynch Caroline M.
Lynch Cherry P.


Btw happy 900 posts aj!
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

Post by Cherry P. on Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:59 am

Emmy A. wrote:
I don't think it really matters if we go up or down @Cherry, just as long as we make it clear to everyone which we choose.
ok

Emmy A. wrote:
Anima's post seems well informed but also easy for scum to fake (because it's a lot of just analyzing different scenarios), but I also don't think scum opens up with an attempt to break the setup in town's favor. Light townlean here?
whoever it was that noted that mafia can't kill and send fruit at the same time gets a townread from me. was that anima or you (pretty sure it's one of the two)?

Emmy A. wrote:
Cherry seems to be trying to use pregame things to scumhunt, and imo the things she's looking at don't actually mean anything. There's the FoS on Anima for half of her not confirming, and then there's Jeremiah's early posts. Let's say Jeremiah's pregame posts did have value in when it comes to scumhunting (I don't think they do). If he was looking over his posts the way you say he was, wouldn't it make sense for him to look over the strikethrough posts and thus not make them? Also I don't think Jeremiah would tell his partner "we can't be scummy or else we'll get lynched day 1" in the thread like that if he was being serious, regardless of strikethrough.
I think the anima point was fairly weak (which is why i didn't lynch her for it and opted to go for jeremiah instead) and brought it up as something I saw which I didn't like / thought was weird. I think there is a definite difference between coming online and confirming and just not confirming, as the former means that they decided to read their role and leave for whatever reason (potential desire to lurk, which is scummy) and the latter is just being inactive.
the argument you're bringing up re: jeremiah is flawed; you can't assume all mafia are playing optimally, scumhunting is quite literally trying to find when people have messed up and then using these messups to try and see if the person really is scum or not.
regardless of whether jeremiah is scum or not I also pointed out why the way that was done is harmful for town even if he is town, and how I feel it makes him look scummy.

Emmy A. wrote:
I also don't like how Cherry started off with "I don't like not following through" and "it's something I personally like to do" regarding her vote on Jeremiah and then went back onto her pregame vote as if she felt like she had to justify her first in game RVS vote with reasoning. (Kind of like "I randvoted. Oh by the way it's not actually random so it wasn't an omgus in RVS like you suggested.") That feels like self consciousness to me and I will join you in pressuring Cherry.
The former was an explanation as to why I wasn't bandwagoning (despite my terrible timing) and the latter was explaining why I actually had the original "lynch" on jeremiah. The "something i personally like to do" is acknowledging that jeremiah's point is entirely valid but still saying that I personally want to follow up on a pre-lynch, regardless of the reasons I have (valid or not)
not seeing the connection to what I did and the example you provided, could you match up specific posts/words to what you're saying?
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Re: Game 32: Farmer's Hydra

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