Re: Game 16: Modified Execution

by Brad P. Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:43 pm

Now what I'm doing isn't even close to what vicky did, vicky simply refused to give any reasoning, I've got a really good reason, for me it would be looking through every page of the thread just to find that one post where I explain it, for you guys it would be looking through what I've posted to find the post where I explain it. I could do the same thing but that wouldn't have me quoting it. I'm not saying it's impossible for me, I'm saying it's harder for me than it is for you.

I haven't "given up" I've decided that seeing as my own strategy, which is still better for finding scum, worse for having the town listen to you, is so rejected, I might as well see if it works to do the same thing everyone else does. I give reasoning, vicky gave none and switched opinion every 5 minutes. Now you can call me an ass for not looking it up, but Lakoko could have looked it up way easier while she was posting "quote" so many times. Lakoko is more annoying than I could possibly ever be, and I know how annoying I can be. At least I say something sensible in every post, rather than spamming "quote".

by Brad P. Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:47 pm

Brad P. wrote:BOLD = RESPONSE

Lakoko H. wrote:Okay I can finally quote so im gonna point ou teverything wrong with Brad's statements against me which is basically everything.

Brad P. wrote:Lakoko, I have read the literal words somewhere where you said that I said you were a scum team with 2 others, I have read the literal words where you said that I said you were scum. Those quotes, I can find them. I did find them in fact, I showed them. You never bring any actual quotes though, you never bring any evidence that what you say is true.

Okay so I first want to point out that no, I did not in any of my posts said that you have directly stated that I am maf and if you found one as you claim if you could kindly quote it that would be great. As i have stated before, I have no problem with how he is going out against me but up until one of his previous posts. This one:

I'll get the proof. I have quoted it a few times but I'll do it again.

Brad P. wrote:
Lakoko H. wrote:Brad. I said that I will shoot kokojo

I must have missed that then, sorry.

Lakoko H. wrote:And BTW Brad's determination for taking me down insufferable.
Even before I shot he made it clear that he thinks I'm maf without any reasoning and he even tried to put the 2 who voted me and I as a (insert about 5 possibles here) scum team

I didn't say I thought you were mafia, I stated a possibility, if I remember correctly, you said that we should point out anything odd about you anyways. I am pointing out everything odd that I can find about you, so people don't ignore you. Yes, it makes me scummy, but if you end up being mafia I at least get the satisfaction of saying "I was right to suspect him"

Kimimaro D. wrote:Alright so, I looked back on some things.

1. We started 8v3. We do have at least 1 misfire. It's 8v2 right now. (skipping ahead here)
~Brad P: Very little pro town help, and some posts getting at our most "pro town" player being scum. Also, some lurking early game.

Lurking? Lurking? So many people didn't do shit at day 1, I said things I tried to get discussions started, and you say I was LURKING?

Now, I see where this is going, this is going towards vicky getting the gun, from here there are 2 options, both involving me truly believing lakoko is scum. Now let me explain this real quick, because it's not as weird as it might sound, don't you think it's very convenient that lakoko got the gun day 1 and shot the mafia? I think it's highly unlikely that would happen to a towny, now this is of course only a game of chance. Lakoko might have just been lucky. She scumread 2 people, 1 mafia and vicky, now vicky can be 1 of 3 things in the case that lakoko is mafia. She could be a corrupted townie and lakoko is taking the chance to take out vicky, using the excuse that mafia would need to predict very well to get her, HIGHLY UNLIKELY. The other thing is that maybe vicky is mafia helping lakoko's plan. HIGHLY UNLIKELY. The third, it's obvious, vicky is town, she shoots me. Simple enough right? pretty obvious. But. Look at my posts, and look at what people have been claiming I've been saying, especially lakoko, I don't have anything against lakoko, except for that she's towny. TOO towny. Look back at other psanon games, who were the mafia? the towny people. Still following me? What did the mafia do to the same person every time? They twisted their words around, seeing a pattern here? Mafia is towny, really towny, they offer up their own members and then twist around words of others to fit their strategy. Lakoko keeps claiming I have something against him, but where did I ever say that? nowhere, I just did as he told I should, point out those little scummy things about him, as he isn't confirmed. Lakoko claimed that I don't form any opinions, yet also claimed that on day 1 I said he was scum with 2 other people, neither of those are correct. I form opinions, I form many more than most people do, every time I say something about lakoko's scummy actions, I am forming an opinion about the action. I never said he was a scumteam with those other 2 either, I said it was odd how those 2 voted for him and talked about the possible things that would bring IF lakoko was scum.

tl;dr, I didn't have a problem with lakoko, that was a lie from lakoko. I didn't say lakoko was scum, I never have until now. That was another lie from lakoko. See where I'm going? Lakoko is painting me as obvious scum, something that has happened to town people all the time in the past games, something that has been done by mafia members who seemed oh so towny all the time in the past games. There is a pattern. When I die, which will happen unless vicky decides to start listening to the people who are thinking logically and would rather shoot the person not even TRYING to contribute, think about everything I said, read through my posts, read through lakoko's reactions on them. Read through everything that interacted with me, as you will see then that I am town, and when you see I am town, you'll also see it's undeniable that lakoko is really scummy. When I die, when you see that I am actually town, trust me, simply trust me. Read what I have said and listen to it, knowing that it comes from a cleared towny. A cleared overconfident towny that believes they are always right about who is the mafia, because they always are. And that is why the mafia always takes them out first.

I have so many problems with this one because he builds his whole "speculation" on incorrect facts and logical fallacies.

1. Me twisting his words. I have never stated that he ever stated directly that I'm mafia and I wouldn't have said anything against him if he would have done that from start. My problem is that up until then he did everything in this "speculation" formula where you say something against someone but it is all in indirect matter with a lot of "maybe" and "perhaps" and constantly remind us of how insacure he is or how much he isnt sure. This insanely Shove-it-your-face Naivity is something that I just don't find believable. He actually twisted my words so he could say that I'm twisting his words and thats actually quite impressive.

We will see if you stated that I stated you're mafia. Yes, I say things in a speculation formula, if you'd rather have me saying "OMG LAKOKO MUST BE MAFIA BECAUSE THESE 2 VOTED HIM" that's fine by me, but I'd rather be scummy than an idiot. I didn't twist your words, I checked and you did state it, if I misread it, I apologize.

2. I am too much town to be town.
This one annoys me because of how many logical fallacies it has in it. The Mafia Wiki has a list of some common logical fallacies: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Category:Logical_Fallacies and Without digging I have found 2 that match this statement. The first is the obvious "Too Townie" Fallacy and the second is the Hitler Built Autobahns regarding the Pattern that you have mentioned.

I am going by the obvious pattern through all mafia games on the psanon forum where the towny members are often mafia. Yes, you could see that as Hitler Built Autobahns, and the way I'm using it is indeed Too Townie, does that necessarily mean it's bad logic? no. NO it does not mean it's bad logic, because it's better logic than "he seems odd", which btw is the excuse you've been using for half of the game.

The 3rd thing that really downright DISGUSTS me is this:
"You never bring any actual quotes though, you never bring any evidence that what you say is true".

smfh I said that I cannot quote right now and will quote later and you couldnt have missed that just like I doubt that you have missed how I said that i will shoot kokojo because you talked about my post against him in your next post

I have not missed the thing where you said you couldn't quote, I just didn't believe it. I've been forced to do psanon on phone before, it's possible to quote. In fact, it's really easy, it just takes a bit longer. Your post about shooting kokojo was "I am probably going to shoot kokojo", and no I don't notice probabilities about shooting. They're not important to me, because with shooting saying you will probably shoot someone saves your ass if you shoot someone else.

Brad P. wrote:well that's the info we have so far, up until now lakoko has been one of the more contributing people, for now I'll assume she's town, though my experience tells me that often the active people are mafia on forums, so I'll get back to that later. I'm thinking we have a few options for who to shoot, there is as lakoko pointed out vicky and kokojo, and as I pointed out a possible, possible, mind you, zenkiti + kimimaro + lakoko connection, that, to me, leaves 3 options.

Vicky and kokojo are just mainly because of what lakoko already pointed out.

The third option to me would be kimimaro, lakoko contributes and zenkiti started about lakoko so he might be a town member who geniunely thinks lakoko is town, while kimimaro latched onto it to say lakoko is towny, sure it's a small risk to take in the case that I am right, though it would also mean a risk for zenkiti, in this theory that would mean a bit of a risk factor onto a town member while possibly just taking away risks for themselves.

If you are town then this is a plain disgusting play. For a mafia I can somewhat understand delibratly using something unrelated to actual game as evidence against someone because in most cases there is no other evidence but as TOWN? You know its not up to me and yet you still use it against and that is a dick move. This is not a political debate its a game of mafia for crying out loud!

It's related to the game, there was nothing else we could discuss, and it was just an option, it was something to keep in the back of your head, simply to not forget that something slightly scummy happened.

And about Vicky. The point is not giving her a gun and hoping for the best and it was never my intention. Im saying that if we vote on who gets shot instead of who will shoot we should let Vicky shoot with clear instructions on who to shoot because there is no chance in hell that she is corrupted and by that we are taking the corruption factor out for the day. What im saying here is that if we vote on who get shot then who does the shot really doesnt matter. Th eonly difference is that Hinata has a small chance of being corrupted while Vicky doesnt.

Both have the same chance to be corrupted. invalid point. Besides, I'm not the one who brought up that part about you, that was Mary.

And I will post the Brad quotes as promised and even go one step beyond and quote every single one of his posts because im pretty sure that I will find something in every single post by Brad but not right now because I was away from home last 2 days and had liek 3 hours of sleep so im exausted rn but I had to post this because its a pending issue.

Pending issues huh, you've probably got less than 20 hours, and neither of us is going to die I'm thinking.

Seeing as you 2 are being assholes about it and I don't want to return with 10 messages telling me I'm an asshole and I need to quote it, here you go, have fun with your garbage quote :] This isn't the only one, but you know, you guys too lazy to look it up? then why should I.

by Brad P. Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:54 pm

oh right, forgot to say something, because you asked so nicely lakoko *obvious sarcasm*

by Lakoko H. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:05 pm

there we go
your whole reasonign is based on you miunderstanding me and I think that you understood very well what I said and it all go backs to somethingthat I wanted you to quote a while ago and yo unever did and that's the post where I directly said that you directly said that im maf. everything you said is based on that and how im "too townie".

by Lakoko H. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:14 pm

okay that was unreadable let me rephrase:

Your whole reasoning is based on something that was either you misunderstanding me or you understanding me but deciding to strawman me anyway. and I think the later is more likely.
I said before that this was your second time avoiding quoting something by saying "I have quoted it before". the first was also your whole reasoning's basis ans that's how I Stated that you directly stated that I'm maf, which didnt happen

And also im going to try and avoid seeing your showdown reveal because I honestly do hate you and I dont want it to affect my relationship with anyone in the chat.

by Brad P. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:17 pm

why are we having this discussion again? no it wasn't based on me misunderstanding you, it was based on you "misunderstanding" me, twisting my words around. Everything I said was based around you acting simply weird. Small things where you say something slightly differently and use it to your advantage.

This to me makes you look like an asshole and an idiot, you wanted me to quote something, it's only a small part of the huge conversation we had, if you want to know everything you can go look at it yourself, you're giving me the urge to insult you, and that has never happened before, or at least not past asshole, idiot and dumb. From my perspective you just asked me to quote 1 thing out of a huge conversation again and again, making me pick the quote so it doesn't seem all too suspicious when you take it all the way out of contrast, and use it to make me seem like I'm stupid. You forced me to do something because you yourself are too lazy to go do YOUR work yourself. You're an asshole, you're acting like an idiot, and I'm done with this conversation.

Go look at my showdown reveal, and go take a better look at my posts, I DID find the quote where you directly stated I directly stated you're mafia. Those 2 posts you just made are absolute bullshit.

If you can't keep things from psanon and things from ps apart, you are really bad at this. The point of psanon is that you can act different than you usually do, and people won't be too bothered by it. Do you think I usually act like an asshole? do you think I usually act dumb? Do you think my logic always seems flawed to town? My logic isn't flawed. That's just how you see it because you don't know who I am, in my head everything is perfectly logical, but anyone who knows who I am should also know that I am bad at explaining my thoughts. So I dare you to look at my reveal, and even if you don't, I'll find you, I'll reveal myself to you.

by Brad P. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:18 pm

And if you're wondering why I would reveal myself to someone who hates the person I am in this game, it's because I can seperate psanon from ps, and unless I already have a bad relation with someone on ps, I don't think this should be of any influence.

by Lakoko H. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:18 pm

QUOTE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and i mean directly
directly quote the post that you are talkign about.
I hate you

by Brad P. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:28 pm

maybe if you'd ask nicely I'd be more inclined to do what you say you know? And if you hate me, how does it help you to say it exactly? you're way too caught up in this game, relax for a moment, think about what you're doing, because you're acting out of anger, hatred, annoyance or whatever emotion it is you're having atm. Can you begin by explaining what it is about me that you hate? if you do that I'll go look up the quote.

by Lakoko H. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:29 pm

no i wont relax shut the hell up and quote

by Brad P. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:30 pm

so... what do you want me to do now? do you want me to shut up or do you want me to quote? I can't do both at the same time you know... Besides, I told you, ask nicely, or at least explain why you hate me. Until you do that I'm not quoting anything for you.

by Lakoko H. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:31 pm

I hate you because you play dirty. You are playing this as if its a political debate.

by Brad P. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:33 pm

bravo, what a great reason to hate someone! I still don't really get what you mean by it but anyways, I'll just go find another quote real quick while I wait for your response

by Brad P. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:34 pm

Brad P. wrote:
Lakoko H. wrote:And BTW Brad's determination for taking me down insufferable.
Even before I shot he made it clear that he thinks I'm maf without any reasoning and he even tried to put the 2 who voted me and I as a (insert about 5 possibles here) scum team

There you go, this is where you stated that I stated you're maf. I never said I thought you were mafia though, I just put in that 3 man team as a slight, very slight, chance of being a scumteam.

Lakoko H. wrote:Deadline is nearing and instead of picking shot we ended up picking shooter.

So I suggest that we start voting for who will get shot as if its a Lynch and don't use bold when voting so aj won't rage quit.

I vote Brad P.
All tho Brad did encourage discussion on day 1, the subject of discussion he tried to make us talk about is harmful for town.
If we were to have a detailed list of plans of action for every scenario, maf could easily play around it. Being predictable is a weakness for town especially in a theme like this.
That and ofc everything that I have already stated about him regarding his neutrality and lack of any direct opinion not filled with "maybe" and "possibly". Hinata talked about how kimimaro tried to stay neutral so he wouldn't step up on any toes, Brad went one step beyond and didn't give any opinions at all.
Most of his posts are just facts, making him appear helpful and contributing while not actually helping or contributing unlike Dorian B as mentioned by hinata.
He also has something against me that I am yet to understand because he never stated it directly or elaborated on why but from what I can see, he is scratching the pit of the barrel trying to find something on me like when he posted about me never saying who I will shoot (Again with no opinion involved) despite me stating on my next (or second next) post that I suspect kokojo and will probably shoot him.
I'm also not fond of how he keeps mentioning how clueless he is or how unsure he is and in his final day 1 post he both went against me and agreed with me in the most insecure way possible meaning no matter who what the results of the shooting are, nothing can be used against him

So my subject of discussion is harmful for town? I'm trying to set us into a pattern that'll make us predictable? But really, am I the one who thought it was a good idea to do the scummy shoots scummier thing? No, you had the idea, I was against it. I didn't want us falling into a pattern. You want opinions? Well here you go, you've got opinions that you can actually understand, rather than my other opinions that you see as facts. If I really didn't want to step on your toes, don't you think I'd have done it a little differently? I have experience with mafia games, staying neutral never works. It's the perfect way to step on people's toes, and my experience is that I have a tendency to step on the mafia's toes, the smart ones just defend themselves and ignore it. How many times have I mentioned how clueless I am? How many times have I mentioned how unsure I am? Because iirc I mentioned it with the scumteam thing, and for the rest maybe once for a few other things. But what was there to be sure about? It was day 1, we were the only ones really trying to do anything, and now we've turned against eachother.

there we go, another quote for you, miss lakoko, happy now huh? Does the queen need anything else?

by Lakoko H. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:35 pm

You tried everything against me every thing that you can find and every thing that you cant find. you twist every single thing that I say and the thing is you are not stupid but you are still acting stupid.
You called my ideas bad and thats the lowest you went because you are not stupid and if you woudl stop to think about it and i know you did, my ideas were gamebreaking at the time. I have singlehandley changed the Mod Exe meta and changed it into a wifom game instead of a "who do you trust" game for both thi sand chat so dont tell my that my ideas were bad.

by Lakoko H. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:36 pm

where?
I dont see anything. what do you mean?

by Lakoko H. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:38 pm

"Even before I shot he made it clear that he thinks I'm maf without any reasoning and he even tried to put the 2 who voted me and I as a (insert about 5 possibles here) scum team"

OH you mean this. mfw.
Did you not notice the "(Insert 5 possibles here)"?
My entire point is that you tried to be as much against me as you can without actually saying it an dit reminds me of a certain southpark episode.

by Brad P. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:40 pm

I didn't twist words around, I'm acting stupid, but not on purpose, I might have exaggerated a little about your ideas, they just generally weren't very useful, Mod Exe meta? And you changed something into a wifom game for the chat... well how good for you! but we can't really do a lot with that now can we? Besides, I don't see where you changed this into a wifom game, seeing as it was a wifom game already, maybe you helped some people recognize it as it is, but most people should already know it to be so.

I don't get why we're still going on about the possible scumteam, I clearly said it was only a slight possibility, and it's not very relevant anymore now is it?

by Lakoko H. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:42 pm

yes THAT WAS MY POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
all the "possibly" "maybe"
my point was exactly the opposite of what you made it, my point was that you DIDNT say it directly so you wouldnt step on anyones toe

by Brad P. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:43 pm

okay so now that we've got it settled can we move on to a different point? EVERYTHING is slipping through everyone's attention, apart from the discussion where I apparently have flawed logic, but nobody quotes it, I am acting passive aggressive, but nobody quotes it and whatever else you guys are accusing me off. I have proof that everybody has gone off focus, because I placed a small seed that should have been discovered by now, but it hasn't, now let me explain.

by Brad P. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:46 pm

Some time ago I said I was going to take a look at possible connections people had with zack, I would get back to it later, is what I said. Now with this shitstorm going on around me, where people seem to want me dead, surely people would have gone looking for every bit of evidence right? yet that hasn't happened. Now let's just think about this for a moment, I mentioned something and never got around to doing it, surely someone really determined to get me dead would have gone looking for things right? they'd have found it, but nobody did. Now what does this tell us? The mafia isn't hugely active to try and get me killed, they want to sit back, stay out of the attention, and let someone else do the work, so they can then turn the fire on those, then when those flip town too, they can argue that turning the fire on the one that got a townie killed didn't work out earlier, so why would it now? This, makes me believe that the mafia is not lakoko.

by Kimimaro D. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:48 pm

Holy shit, is this how you guys felt when Hinata and I were arguing in chat?

Ok, so, I'm still confused. What did you want him to quote? Why?

Holy shit Lakoko, don't hate them. ANd please don't hate me, I like playing mod.exe with you in chat ;~;

Brad, what seed...?

by Lakoko H. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:49 pm

Brad P. wrote:not going to decide on a lynch quite yet... I'm going to see what people do for now. We should probably discuss strategies. What if someone dies after getting a gun? what if someone shoots the wrong person? obviously the chance isn't very big they'll shoot the right person. What if someone shoots the right person? does that clear them? sure they're a lot less scummy, but what if the mafia is playing a trick with us?

This is also something that annoys me about you because
A: this subject is harmful for town. as i have stated before, town gets punished for being predictable. And in this theme, punished is not even close to what happens to town if its predictable.
B::"but what if the mafia is playing a trick with us" I talked before about how in the entirity of day 1 you made it clear in almost every post that you dont know, and you hit us in the face with forced naivity. Even players on their first game dont say "what of mafia is tricking us".

by Kimimaro D. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:49 pm

Wait honestly, that's not a bad point. I don't think the mafia is pushing on ANYONE to be shot or anything. Honestly, Marina/Brad/Lakoko/I are the only people really discussing, and we're all pushing. Of course, why would mafia want to be that obvious?

by Brad P. Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:50 pm

Exactly kimimaro, I was being the perfect mafia bait, having placed something really scummy hidden in my text, nobody would notice it unless they want to frame me, seeing as nobody did, well, the mafia is staying out of this.

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