Game 11: Vengeful Mafia Mafia

he was a...:

Rochelle R. wrote:I'll admit this isn't many posts, but I only think Butler's logic is a little off. So here we go.

Butler P. wrote:Gizelle's suicide scum hunting  has some merit. Some. I can see where she was coming from. However, the risk versus reward isn't even close. There's the clear first problem, that we are down by one more town member instantly. But, since she was acting so scummy, we spent nearly the entire day talking about Gizelle. Now we have very little going into this day, except for Gizelle's plan making Rochelle the scummiest. And if we lynch Rochelle and this strategy is wrong? We're down two townies and have to lynch three mafia to win, all thanks to Gizelle's faith in her strategy. If this strategy works so well, why haven't I ever seen it used before?

The above post is fairly logical. It seems fine. Except for the last sentence. It's just a little odd that it's thrown in there. It just seems off.

I don't understand what you are trying to get at here. Gizelle said multiple times that suicide scum hunting works. So if it's such a great strategy, why isn't it being used regularly? She speaks as if she has used the strategy before. The last sentence was completely related to the main idea of that post, so I don't understand what you mean, or how you could relate this to the slightest amount of scum like behavior. ~Butler

Butler P. wrote:

Rochelle R. wrote:N33T, Kaito turned mafia.
I understand I'm not off the hook. In my defense, I was actually pressured into taking off the lynch from Kaito, and it would have been easy to preserve Kaito had I wanted to.

Yes, it would have been easy to preserve Kaito had you wanted to. You merely had to unlynch him. How does this defend you, exactly?

Also, Toran D. was only subbed out once. See game 8, page 31.

See, here it seems to me that you didn't take into account the first sentence. Idk, I thought this was clear. It seems like an overly aggressive post to me.

You did make it clear that you knew you were off the hook. I merely questioned your "in my defense" post, because in my opinion it did not defend you. Again, not sure how you see that as "off" ~Butler

Butler P. wrote:Mr. Sukisoh - Has told us many times today and yesterday that he believes I am scummy, yet still hasn't explained how. I'm finding it hard to get a read on him...he made a decent argument when we were on to him, but his most recent read list looked rushed and hastily put together. Neutral

Ms. Trinity - I could copy past my entry from my last read list, and it would be essentially the same. Hasn't posted much, but still plenty of quality posts. Hasn't really taken a stand on anything besides all of Gizelle's madness, but perhaps her readlist will reveal more. Town read.

I feel like everyone is townreading Trinity. Can we not remember that the last time she posted frequently was when she was going after Gizelle? I can see how that's easy to forget, but you don't have any feeling she might be scum?

This is the only legitimate point I believe you made. The best I can say is, the only thing I have found wrong with her is that she doesn't post much. This read list isn't my final verdict on Ms. Trinity, I just believe she is the least scummiest of all the players right now. ~Butler

Mr. Fergus - Haven't been able to get a good read on him...he seems somewhat town like, but again, I can't really tell. It didn't make sense to me how he said so surely that Ms. Rochelle was not mafia. Maybe no one has defended her, but if someone did it would be too obvious that they were a scum team. Neutral/no read

Mr. Makino - People have been against him for most of the game, and I feel as though he has done a decent job of defending himself. His posts make some sense, but there is no denying that he has jumped on bandwagons a couple of times. 55/45 town to scumSo he jumps on bandwagons, a seemingly telltale sign of scum, but that's not as scummy as me bringing up that fergus has been subbed a bunch of times?

I felt that Mr. Makino's other actions were less scummy than yours. You treat it like those two situations are the only reasons why I was leaning town slightly on Mr. Makino and leaning scum slightly on you. ~Butler

Ms. Rochelle - Her most recent "readlist" was just a culmination of different thoughts that didn't combine into anything. She pointed out several things, but she can't decide if they are scummy or not apparently. She brings up so many different things, but she doesn't back them up. 45/55 scum to town
Yes, I said right in the beginning that the read list was going to be a train wreck. How does that make me scummy?

I'm just surprised you cannot form an opinion on people whatsoever in that last readlist you made. This leads back to how I said I felt your scumhunting falls flat and isn't genuine. ~Butler

I want to get something out of the way: none of these things are atrocious or even bad. However, accumulated, it evokes a general "off" feeling.

Rochelle R. wrote:

Butler P. wrote:So, that was not the most favorable result yesterday. Now, heading into day 2, Mr. Makino and Ms. Gizelle will be under close inspection, I'm sure. I would like to see more of them, Gizelle in particular.

One of the more intriguing players from yesterday I've noticed was Mr. Andreas. He has been here throughout the entire game, but he hasn't done much. He only enlightened us on a few opinions, and didn't place a vote. This was just something I picked up from yesterday, I would be happy if I could hear opinions on it.

I know I keep coming back to this post, but it's a perfect example of Butler seeming just a little off. Not scummy, just a little unexpected. "Mr. Makino and Ms. Gizelle will be under close inspection, I'm sure." Why are you sure? It's just a little odd.

Makino C. wrote:

Butler P. wrote:Mr. Sukisoh - Has told us many times today and yesterday that he believes I am scummy, yet still hasn't explained how. I'm finding it hard to get a read on him...he made a decent argument when we were on to him, but his most recent read list looked rushed and hastily put together. Neutral

Ms. Trinity - I could copy past my entry from my last read list, and it would be essentially the same. Hasn't posted much, but still plenty of quality posts. Hasn't really taken a stand on anything besides all of Gizelle's madness, but perhaps her readlist will reveal more. Town read.

Mr. Fergus - Haven't been able to get a good read on him...he seems somewhat town like, but again, I can't really tell. It didn't make sense to me how he said so surely that Ms. Rochelle was not mafia. Maybe no one has defended her, but if someone did it would be too obvious that they were a scum team. Neutral/no read

Mr. Makino - People have been against him for most of the game, and I feel as though he has done a decent job of defending himself. His posts make some sense, but there is no denying that he has jumped on bandwagons a couple of times. 55/45 town to scum

Ms. Rochelle - Her most recent "readlist" was just a culmination of different thoughts that didn't combine into anything. She pointed out several things, but she can't decide if they are scummy or not apparently. She brings up so many different things, but she doesn't back them up. 45/55 scum to town

I'll admit I may have.But what I did wasn't exactly a bandwagon lynch imo. Mostly because I reasoned them. And I don't understand why you are targeting me with lynchs when clearly there are many others who mis lynched including you.

Rochelle R. wrote:So, in responesed to butler's first post.
1. So are new strategiis bad? It can be good without being used often.
2. I thought it defended me well.
3. Ok, you townread trinity.
4.  Think it's odd that you took bwing so lightly.
5. There were a lot of mixed reads in my readlist.

Remember, these tghings aren't scummy. Just a little odd.

Fergus K. wrote:Personally, I think Makino is the scummiest right now mainly because the lacked of reaction after the death of Sukisoh. Those two had quite a bit of argument in the past, you would think Makino would say something rather than quickly moving on to questioning Butler. If his activity drops, it could mean that he is trying to lurk, so town "ignores" him during lylo and we lynch the wrong person.

Makino C. wrote:

Fergus K. wrote:Personally, I think Makino is the scummiest right now mainly because the lacked of reaction after the death of Sukisoh. Those two had quite a bit of argument in the past, you would think Makino would say something rather than quickly moving on to questioning Butler. If his activity drops, it could mean that he is trying to lurk, so town "ignores" him during lylo and we lynch the wrong person.

I was never lurking ffs. When Butler and Rochelle were having an argument I can't randomly butt in. Yes, me and sukisoh were arguing but how does that change anything? We've had an argument with everyone we've lynched so far, right? Besides, I find it odd that you only brought this up after Trinity suggested we look into you and Rochelle more. Perhaps trying to divert the topic to me?

Fergus K. wrote:

Makino C. wrote:

Fergus K. wrote:Personally, I think Makino is the scummiest right now mainly because the lacked of reaction after the death of Sukisoh. Those two had quite a bit of argument in the past, you would think Makino would say something rather than quickly moving on to questioning Butler. If his activity drops, it could mean that he is trying to lurk, so town "ignores" him during lylo and we lynch the wrong person.

I was never lurking ffs. When Butler and Rochelle were having an argument I can't randomly butt in. Yes, me and sukisoh were arguing but how does that change anything? We've had an argument with everyone we've lynched so far, right? Besides, I find it odd that you only brought this up after Trinity suggested we look into you and Rochelle more. Perhaps trying to divert the topic to me?

This post came out to me as heavily defensive and I will point out a few things about this post
1) i never said you were lurking hence the word "if" which suggests a possible scenario
2) why can't you randomly butt in? This is lylo and if you have an idea even though it's not related you should just say it, weren't your arguments with sukisoh yesterday considered 'butt in' to since there were also arguments between rochelle and butler?
3) i am not saying that the argument makes you scummy, it is the lack of reaction after sukisoh flips town. It is like you already know he will flip town and therefore did not care much so you moved on to questioning butler.
4) town never applied pressure onto me so I find no reason you would say that. Just because one post says that i maybe scum will not stop me from pressuring someone, as i said in 2, this is lylo so we should just contribute as much as possible. Now, if town was lynching me and applying pressure on me and i randomly stated someone i have not read as scum before, that can be seen as scummy.
5) what if makino + trinity is a scum team?

Butler P. wrote:A few other things that I had meant to include but left out:

-At the top of your post, you said that my logic was "off." So why then did half of the posts (first two, to be specific) you commented on have nothing to do with my logic?

-Alright, referring to the second post you commented on. How was that post overly aggressive? I saw something and I was curious about it, so I asked what you meant by it. Why is asking for clarification being aggressive? The whole idea of scum hunting when you have no power roles is to get as much info as you can and use it to make an educated guess. If anything, NOT asking questions and pressing for info is scummy.

I apologize if that came off fairly ranty, but I feel strongly about the subject of accusing people of being, "too aggressive."

Butler P. wrote:

Rochelle R. wrote:So, in responesed to butler's first post.
1. So are new strategiis bad? It can be good without being used often.
2. I thought it defended me well.
3. Ok, you townread trinity.
4.  Think it's odd that you took bwing so lightly.
5. There were a lot of mixed reads in my readlist.

Remember, these tghings aren't scummy. Just a little odd.

"Or we could lynch Butler, who seems to have slightly scummy traits.

Makino C. wrote:

Fergus K. wrote:

Makino C. wrote:

Fergus K. wrote:Personally, I think Makino is the scummiest right now mainly because the lacked of reaction after the death of Sukisoh. Those two had quite a bit of argument in the past, you would think Makino would say something rather than quickly moving on to questioning Butler. If his activity drops, it could mean that he is trying to lurk, so town "ignores" him during lylo and we lynch the wrong person.

I was never lurking ffs. When Butler and Rochelle were having an argument I can't randomly butt in. Yes, me and sukisoh were arguing but how does that change anything? We've had an argument with everyone we've lynched so far, right? Besides, I find it odd that you only brought this up after Trinity suggested we look into you and Rochelle more. Perhaps trying to divert the topic to me?

This post came out to me as heavily defensive and I will point out a few things about this post
1) i never said you were lurking hence the word "if" which suggests a possible scenario
2) why can't you randomly butt in? This is lylo and if you have an idea even though it's not related you should just say it, weren't your arguments with sukisoh yesterday considered 'butt in' to since there were also arguments between rochelle and butler?
3) i am not saying that the argument makes you scummy, it is the lack of reaction after sukisoh flips town. It is like you already know he will flip town and therefore did not care much so you moved on to questioning butler.
4) town never applied pressure onto me so I find no reason you would say that. Just because one post says that i maybe scum will not stop me from pressuring someone, as i said in 2, this is lylo so we should just contribute as much as possible. Now, if town was lynching me and applying pressure on me and i randomly stated someone i have not read as scum before, that can be seen as scummy.
5) what if makino + trinity is a scum team?

Okay so I didn't quite understand what you mean in the part that I bolded. But:
a)After sukisoh was lynched, what did you expect me to do? Say "Whoops, RIP Sukisoh" and weep about it? I understand that I mislynched but saying something about it would only make me look scummy and distract town from the real mafia. Besides, plurality applies meaning someone would have been lynched anyway. That someone could have been you or it could have been me. The only reason I lynched sukisoh was because he was the scummiest out of the others for the OMGUS lynch. There is really no way I could have reacted.
b) Right, but it has been two days since sukisoh was lynched. I personally find it scummy that you only mentioned the fact that I could be mafia after what Trinity said. I understand that no one was pressuring you but if we did and you said that, it would have been a dead giveaway. Which is probably why you are trying to change the topic before we think deeper into what Trinity said.
c) Calling me and Trinity a scum team just proves my previous point. If me and trinity were mafia, I think we would know better than to support each other's points. Once again, did it only occur to you that me and trinity could be a scum team after what she suggested?

Makino C. wrote:Oh, now that I read it again, I think I understood it.
And no, the argument between me and sukisoh was not a 'butt in'. As it was between the me and him. I wouldn't but into what Butler and Rochelle were arguing about if I didn't have anything to say about it .-.
Besides, if you see it that way, what me and you and doing rn is also a 'butt in'

Fergus K. wrote:

Makino C. wrote:Oh, now that I read it again, I think I understood it.
And no, the argument between me and sukisoh was not a 'butt in'. As it was between the me and him. I wouldn't but into what Butler and Rochelle were arguing about if I didn't have anything to say about it .-.
Besides, if you see it that way, what me and you and doing rn is also a 'butt in'

I think we need a definition of butt-in here. Also, I never said I disagreed with butting in. Weren't you the one that said you don't want to 'butt-in', or am I misunderstanding what you are trying to convey here?

Makino C. wrote:lol I think I misunderstood what you said and said something that made made you misunderstand me only because I didn't understand what you said in the first place .-.