Re: Game 34: Purgatory

by Pit B. Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:25 am

Alright, something happened with my hides. Pinging AJ to give me permissions to Edit, or fix it himself.

by Pit B. Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:36 am

Bart S.:

Spoiler:

by Pit B. Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:53 am

Evian W.

Spoiler:

by Pit B. Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:57 am

OK, I'm too tired to continue so I'm just going to give a brief read-over of Taka (since he has plurality):

I believe that Taka's tone is very forcing but is nevertheless townie. I like how he is trying to force reads out of Butch and I'm still confused as to why people have wagoned upon him.

Now to give my lynch, Lynch Bart S.

by Pit B. Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:58 am

Oops, Unlynch, Lynch Bart S.

by Taka T. Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:02 pm

I do not have plurality.

I have thoughts on your reads but I also kind of wait for you to do a real read on me

by Bart S. Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:32 pm

Pit B. wrote:
Questions:
Why did you unlynch Butch?
Why are you posting a bunch of useless messages?
Why are you only defending yourself and not scumhunting?

Hopefully I quoted right here.
1) I unlynched Butch because with the posts he is making, and the fact that he is not one of the inactive people, I don't see him as scum.
2) Useless? I do see how "ngl quoting is hard" is useless but that is pretty much it. I've been answering questions I've seen / posting thoughts on things (like Kinso's post).
3) We can't really scum hunt that much when some people had only posted an rvs lynch and gone - which I can't read at all.

by **ajhockeystar** Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:16 pm

Votecount 1.3
******************************
Bart S.(3)- Yaichi H., Taka T., Pit B.
Taka T.(2)- Kaiser P., Evian W.
Kinso D.(0)-
Butch C.(0)-
Evian W.(0)-
Kaiser P.(0)-
Kathi G.(0)-
Pit B.(0)-
Yaichi H.(0)-
Not Voting(4)- Butch C., Kathi G., Kinso D., Bart S.
******************************
There are 9 alive so it takes 5 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Friday the 13th at 9pm EST.

If the deadline was now, Bart S. would be lynched.

by Bart S. Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:42 pm

Welp I'm probably getting lynched today so I might aswell post a read list x_x

Taka T. - scum lean
Kinso D. - scum
Butch C. - town
Evian W. - town lean
Kaiser P. - null
Kathi G. - null
Pit B. - null
Yaichi H.

by Kaiser P. Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:58 am

Kinso D. wrote:
Kaiser P. wrote:Im not really sure why. Kinso's reaction just urks me a bit more its hard to explain
Kinso i gave reasoning, your reaction to the shitposting readlist seemed fake and wierd. Read the thread instead of throwing off my read as no reasoning
I mean I get that you find it scummy, but as I said that was my reaction because I though he was being serious.

How can you think it was real. Thats what seems fake about it. and even if you did think it was real, you started questioning his townread on you iirc, which just seems like a scum saying 'im going to disagree with being townread that looks townie' idk how to explain very well it just gives a bad vibe

Kinso D. wrote:Also this pit guy seems to have lynched me and just hasn't appeared since.

Pit had about the same activity as a few others. Why are you specifically targeting him apart from the fact he is lynching you?

Pit B. wrote:Sorry for the inactivity, a post on all my thoughts will be coming shortly.

Also, to clarify, we are in Hell phase right?

That last bit feels like he's asking a question for the sake of asking questions. If you read the thread you will see people voting for scumreads so..
However his later readlists give me a d1 tr on him

gonna do this again because AJ missed it cos he is bad boi unless i maybe just forgot to do it idk
Unvote
Vote Kinso

by Kinso D. Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:16 am

Kaiser P. wrote:
Kinso D. wrote:
Kaiser P. wrote:Im not really sure why. Kinso's reaction just urks me a bit more its hard to explain
Kinso i gave reasoning, your reaction to the shitposting readlist seemed fake and wierd. Read the thread instead of throwing off my read as no reasoning
I mean I get that you find it scummy, but as I said that was my reaction because I though he was being serious.
How can you think it was real. Thats what seems fake about it. and even if you did think it was real, you started questioning his townread on you iirc, which just seems like a scum saying 'im going to disagree with being townread that looks townie' idk how to explain very well it just gives a bad vibe

Kinso D. wrote:Also this pit guy seems to have lynched me and just hasn't appeared since.
Pit had about the same activity as a few others. Why are you specifically targeting him apart from the fact he is lynching you?
Pit B. wrote:Sorry for the inactivity, a post on all my thoughts will be coming shortly.

Also, to clarify, we are in Hell phase right?
That last bit feels like he's asking a question for the sake of asking questions. If you read the thread you will see people voting for scumreads so..
However his later readlists give me a d1 tr on him

gonna do this again because AJ missed it cos he is bad boi unless i maybe just forgot to do it idk
Unvote
Vote Kinso

Tbh I don't know what I need to say to you to make you believe me but I don't care at this point. You seem intent on tunnelling me so wth. I targeted pit specifically because he was the only inactive person to lynch someone and then go inactive which I don't really like.

by Kinso D. Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:18 am

Bart S. wrote:
Kinso D. wrote:Also this pit guy seems to have lynched me and just hasn't appeared since.

Why have you cared so much about one lynch. This is near all that you have said today and you don't even have plur afaik.

If someone lynches me, that means they think I'm scum. I'd like to know why that is and prove them wrong regardless of if I have plurality or not.
You should not only care about the game if you're about to die. That attitude makes games inactive.

by Kaiser P. Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:23 am

Kinso D. wrote:
Bart S. wrote:
Kinso D. wrote:Also this pit guy seems to have lynched me and just hasn't appeared since.

Why have you cared so much about one lynch. This is near all that you have said today and you don't even have plur afaik.

If someone lynches me, that means they think I'm scum. I'd like to know why that is and prove them wrong regardless of if I have plurality or not.
You should not only care about the game if you're about to die. That attitude makes games inactive.

You werent defending yourself though. You were Pushing someone who was lynching you, mostly because they lynched you :/

by Kinso D. Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:38 am

Kaiser P. wrote:
Kinso D. wrote:
Bart S. wrote:
Kinso D. wrote:Also this pit guy seems to have lynched me and just hasn't appeared since.

Why have you cared so much about one lynch. This is near all that you have said today and you don't even have plur afaik.

If someone lynches me, that means they think I'm scum. I'd like to know why that is and prove them wrong regardless of if I have plurality or not.
You should not only care about the game if you're about to die. That attitude makes games inactive.

You werent defending yourself though. You were Pushing someone who was lynching you, mostly because they lynched you :/

1- Show me where exactly I pushed him. I didn't
2- I would have had the same reaction had they lynched someone else and then disappeared

by Bart S. Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:39 am

Kinso D. wrote:
Bart S. wrote:
Kinso D. wrote:Also this pit guy seems to have lynched me and just hasn't appeared since.

Why have you cared so much about one lynch. This is near all that you have said today and you don't even have plur afaik.

If someone lynches me, that means they think I'm scum. I'd like to know why that is and prove them wrong regardless of if I have plurality or not.
You should not only care about the game if you're about to die. That attitude makes games inactive.

It's day 1 and rvs votes are common. Getting worked up over an rvs is just scummy.

by Bart S. Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:41 am

Kinso D. wrote:
Kaiser P. wrote:
Kinso D. wrote:
Bart S. wrote:
Kinso D. wrote:Also this pit guy seems to have lynched me and just hasn't appeared since.

Why have you cared so much about one lynch. This is near all that you have said today and you don't even have plur afaik.

If someone lynches me, that means they think I'm scum. I'd like to know why that is and prove them wrong regardless of if I have plurality or not.
You should not only care about the game if you're about to die. That attitude makes games inactive.

You werent defending yourself though. You were Pushing someone who was lynching you, mostly because they lynched you :/

1- Show me where exactly I pushed him. I didn't
2- I would have had the same reaction had they lynched someone else and then disappeared

I mean he's back. Pit literally posted like 6 times consecutively. I really don't see your point.

by Evian W. Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:56 am

Firstly, apologies for the inactivity! Had a health breakdown recently, but now I'm 90% well. 90% only, 10% of me is still fighting the germs off.

If I don't sleep on my Laptop, then massposting soon.

by Evian W. Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:06 am

Butch C. wrote:
Big Quote:

Heya. Glad to have you here.

Firstly, I'll address this problem and fix it once and for all - I revealed that it was a disguised RVS because I waited a full in-real life day (half in-game day without the extension) for a reply, and to my disappointment I got none. Well, sure maybe I could've put more pressure of some sorts, but looking at their first post I quickly expected something BIG after the lynch, but ehh. I swear I was gonna write something here, got a discord PM, checked that and forgot what I was about write. Hit me up if I missed anything here.

Secondly, dying out is exactly what I found scummy. He came here, went off with a "bad reaction", and again went away like magic. Besides, his post seemed more pushy, while Bart seemed to know what he's doing.

by Evian W. Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:07 am

Yaichi H. wrote:
spoiler:
taka*

Come on.. You were on and you could've said a lot more.. I'm not sure if you're fixing a typo here or um doing something else?

by Evian W. Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:22 am

Taka T. wrote:
spoiler:

I like being called interesting! It makes me different from others. I mean, being the same? As others? Yuck.

Firstly, the bold. I tried to do some logical cycling around this - from a part where I checked through your first post and ran through the posts trying to connect them and see how this makes sense, but still didn't get it. I'm dumb enough to not get from where you're coming, but at the end of the day I might be dumb enough to not get what this sentence means in the first place. This basically means that we should quickly hammer the other person if one of us flips scum, right?

Secondly, I wrote a similar explanation in the post before! Basically, I waited for some time and got tired of waiting. Human psychology - we aren't as impatient.

And after reading all the posts of this human, hey I've grown fond of this person. Better than just pure aggression and bottle of ketchup and bullshit.
Unlynch Taka T.

by Evian W. Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:29 am

Butch C. wrote:
spoiler:

Firstly,

now I'm genuinely confused too, did the bold stuff mean what he wrote right now or is it what I posted above?

Taka T. wrote:
(I am also glad that I aint the only one finding it hard to understand Evian's reply to me, now i know that i am not stupid)

Will make sure not to mess up my wording in the future. Sorry!

by Butch C. Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:42 pm

Yaichi H. wrote:
Butch C. wrote:
Long Quote:
idk about you but it seemed pretty obvious to me that butch was just reaction testing

Well yeah but you still havent explained why not realising/pretending to not realise it was a reaction test is scummy.

Pit B. wrote:Questions for Butch:
Why haven't you made a RVS vote/pressure vote/scumread lynch yet?
Can you make us a readlist?

You analysed 2 of my posts i believe and I am pretty sure I posted 2 more before you posted ur analysis of me. But anyway I haven't made an RVS vote because I found an opportunity to transition out of the RVS stage by pressing on Taka's super early readlist. I didn't make a pressure vote simply because I didn't feel the need to, I thought my points provided enough pressure and my vote wouldn't add much to it. I haven't made a scumread vote because throughout this day I have been pressing and getting answers out of people because i have been undecided so that in the end (basically right about now) I can make my decision on who to lynch. I will make a readlist at the end of this post. You talked about my "neutrality" and "in-between behaviour", I don't actually understand how I've been neutral at all. I thought my stance can be easily deduced by the intensity of the pressure I apply on them and simply by what I say. However I understand how you wouldn't know my stance on people who I haven't pressured (for example Kinso, I didn't find it necessary to press on Kinso as much as I pressed on Evian because Kinso to me has already shown scumminess while for people like Evian I would concentrate more of my energy).

Bart S. wrote:Welp I'm probably getting lynched today so I might aswell post a read list x_x

Taka T. - scum lean
Kinso D. - scum
Butch C. - town
Evian W. - town lean
Kaiser P. - null
Kathi G. - null
Pit B. - null
Yaichi H.

They literally mean nothing if they arent explained...

Evian W. wrote:
Butch C. wrote:
Big Quote:
Heya. Glad to have you here.

Firstly, I'll address this problem and fix it once and for all - I revealed that it was a disguised RVS because I waited a full in-real life day (half in-game day without the extension) for a reply, and to my disappointment I got none. Well, sure maybe I could've put more pressure of some sorts, but looking at their first post I quickly expected something BIG after the lynch, but ehh. I swear I was gonna write something here, got a discord PM, checked that and forgot what I was about write. Hit me up if I missed anything here.

Secondly, dying out is exactly what I found scummy. He came here, went off with a "bad reaction", and again went away like magic. Besides, his post seemed more pushy, while Bart seemed to know what he's doing.

I mean you haven't really fixed it once and for all when you basically only addressed my first point. Honestly I don't get why you had to reveal it at all, it's not like Taka is the only talk of the town, you had stuff to say about Bart as well. I know I asked you why you voted him but I would have thought that if you were intending a pressure vote you would maintain the pressure and reinforce a certain point against him. Which links in to your decision to put the whole hindsight thing with your "disguised RVS" when it unnecessarily takes off pressure from the vote and opens the door for people to ask you on why you voted Taka. You also haven't responded to why you decided to not reply to Taka despite your eagerness to hear what he has to say. I find it hard to believe that you missed it seeing as how my post was at the top of page 3 and his post is the next post (that isnt AJ). You also havent really talked about why on earth you decided to put Taka as neutral despite doing the whole disguised RVS to pressure him. You say that you "could have put more pressure", but the issue here is why you unnecessarily took off the pressure.

Your 2nd point is just....dafuq? Havent you being FoSing Bart for his reaction against Taka? Now you're saying that he seems to know what he is doing? Unless you mean Pit but the problem here is that he did pretty much nothing, so how could you possibly know that he knows what he is doing?

Evian W. wrote:
Butch C. wrote:
spoiler:

Firstly, now I'm genuinely confused too, did the bold stuff mean what he wrote right now or is it what I posted above?
Taka T. wrote:
(I am also glad that I aint the only one finding it hard to understand Evian's reply to me, now i know that i am not stupid)
Will make sure not to mess up my wording in the future. Sorry!

by Butch C. Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:43 pm

Holy moly PSanon being an absolute butch, AJ is it possible if you can fix my post because I have no idea what went wrong there Shocked

by Taka T. Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:38 pm

OK big post.

I asked pit a question but I don't think I'll have time to actually get an answer in the next 4 hours.

I'm looking at three possible lynches today. Bart, Evian. I'm kind of OK with kinso lynch but to me it's about the same level of certainty as a lynch on kathi, and I'd much rather lynch the person who literally is not here.

I actually did not think that I would be here today, but I have a massive problem with Evian.

The reason I reached out to Pit earlier was because he was doing ISO's of people in the game. I hate ISO's. I think ISO's are almost completely useless. Posts are not made in isolation, so why should they be read that way? There is so much to analyze with regards to what context a post is made in, that is just lost under ISO.

My major problem with Evian is that he has been completely avoiding me since I started posting. This is a guy who is prodding people for activity early in the week, telling people to be less useless, asking people questions. He parks his vote on me. When questioned on it (by Butch), he mangles his explanation COMPLETELY and tries to explain that it was a RVS vote. His vote, as of 12 hours before deadline, was still on me.

How does that make any sense? This cognitive dissonance between what he asks of other people int he game and what he contributes is worrying and is to me what marks a scum player. It's hard to call someone scum by the way they approach the game because hey maybe they do that as town also. But people are scum when they are conflicted with themselves in the way that they approach the game, because they want to look like they're scumhunting when they actually don't need to. When people pretend to be something that they're not, what happens a lot is that the thing they're pretending to be will contradict what they actually are.

Here is my narrative of what happened. Evian parks a vote on me. Tries to seem helpful. When I come back with a gorgeous wall of analysis, he freaks out, gets cold feet, doesn't know what the hell to do or how the hell to respond to me and Butch, and effectively disappears from the game.

Here is NOT a narrative of what happened. Town-evian does good activity prodding and gets the game off to a good start. He is then suddenly OK with being unwilling to push anything and is OK with melting away into the background.

I've been thinking about the setup. It is actually important to get lynches like Evian out of the way sooner rather than later. The setup is such that the good townies will leave the game soon, by design. If active and visible scum like evian is lynched late in the game (but not before judgment day), they will eventually become the most active and seemingly useful person in the game, and then they are harder to lynch. Let me put it this way, butch. suppose you and I get sent to heaven: who is left to push evian?

Evian's flip in either case is hugely informative. I'm happy with sending Butch tomorrow whatever the case, but if he flips scum then there exists a easy kinso vote, if he flips town then we look at people like yaichi and shit like that.

With that said, Vote Evian

I don't like a Kinso lynch for a few reasons. I actually really like his willingness to engage with pit who voted him. This is in direct contrast with Bart, who seems to hope that people who vote him just eventually forget about his existence. This is a big big big townmarker for me and I think some credence needs to be given to my read here.

The second thing is that literally everything Kaiser has been posting has been to tunnel Kinso. Putting the substance aside (although really, my opinion on the substance is the same as I said above, that I like Kinso's willingness to engage with people who vote him), I tend to really REALLY dislike people behind day 1 tunnels. There are 9 players in this game, you have to get reads 8 of them, you have no idea what alignment anybody is, but somehow you've latched onto one person who you really dislike and ignore everyone else? I think this is scummy, and I don't like being on wagon with scum.

(I guess this also makes me feel better about evian vote because the only people scumreading him are me and butch)

And I've talked about bart before. I think bart is lock scum, super scum, super super super scum, even more scum than evian but I want to get rid of evian first because tomorrow we are losing either butch or me and I think we need to hunt the big fish out of the pond first. People in general are afraid of lynching active people, which makes it super easy for people to get away with making transparently scummy posts simply just by making a lot of them.

by Taka T. Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:40 pm

To recap, here are the three possible votes today from my POV
SCUMMIEST: Bart
SCUMMY, BUT THIS LYNCH NEEDS TO HAPPEN SOONER RATHER THAN LATER: Evian
INACTIVE: Kathi

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