Game 33: Purgatory

howie too

Madam Muchmoney wrote:Au revoir, Autumn my love...I'll avenge you!!

Rory M. made a post at the end of Day 1 which I like. He addressed everything that had been brought up and that stood out to him up to that point, and he was also one of the first people to give a concrete set of reads ("This person is townie, this person is scummy") and I find that scum tend to want to procrastinate on giving opinions for as long as possible, so I like that he got right down to business with that. The only question I have right now is this: you mentioned finding it weird that Master Fisherman didn't comment on Autumn, but your own only comment on Autumn was that she didn't have any non-filler posts. What were you expecting from Master Fisherman?

Master Fisherman said that from the readings, Isis, Pete and Charlene stood out to him. He explained Isis and Pete, but not Charlene. However, I implied that he must be commenting on her activity, because she had only one post (which is the confirmation). My question was why did Master Fisherman specifically picked Charlene but not Autumn, who was in a similar position?

Galea R. wrote:

Rory M. wrote:
Galea: I like her posts and I think she suggests good ideas, but I don't think she really thought her analysis through. For example, I like that she brings up the point that maybe we shouldn't send the towniest player to heaven, but she suggests sending people with terrible reads to heaven instead - even though the people sent to heaven could still impact the game. To me, it gives an impression that she is wanting to appear as townie as possible by suggesting strategies, but did not give her ideas much thought. This seems slightly scummy to me as it seems she just wants to appear townie, but not pushing her thoughts all the way through. In the end, she just agrees with the "yeah we'll do it later in the game" which to me seems like she didn't intend for the strategy to be used in the first place. This quote of hers:

" What do you think of the strategy I proposed (take note of Howie & MM's suggestions, e.g. using the system later and not sending a completely suboptimal choice over a good one as well)"

also seems to be that she is trying to become a town leader, which I think is scary. Now, I know she might just be trying to start a discussion which I understand and respect, but there is something about her play style that is scummy to me. She is currently scummy to me, but it is too early to call. I just want to type this out as an idea and see if you guys agree/disagree with me.

You seem to be ignoring the whole point of the strategy in the first place - keeping the players who are having the most positive impact on the town in the game as long as possible. I only realized this now, but keeping these players will also lead to a likely easy out in these LYLO situations, since they can be sent to heaven should it be necessary.
The rest of your post just seems like projecting and/or reaching to me. Not sure why you interpret "we can do it later" as "I have no faith in this strategy and never did". Not having a fully fleshed out idea is neither scummy nor townie as well, the whole point of me bringing that up was to start actual discussion - which it did.
On being a town leader, maybe that's what I was doing unintentionally, but what I wanted to give other people an easy way to start participating - and getting in on current topics of conversation is the best way to do that. There's nothing wrong with a town leader, regardless. The issue comes with people who don't question the town leader at all and/or let them dictate what should be talked about. Fearing any and all town leaders is just silly.

Rory has only had the readslist, and to me it just felt like a lot of fluff. He went after the easy scum target and hedged a ton. That's his only post so far, though, and i'm not willing to assign him to the scum pile just for that.

Yes, I understood your intention and I have no problem with such strategy. I do have a problem with how you presented the idea, however. Personally, it just seems like you have an idea that you thought about and wanted to say it to start a discussion without actually thinking about the strategy first. For example, you said

"as to who we would send instead, I don't really know. That's why I wanted to bring the point up for discussion."

which I understand that the point of your post was to start a discussion but to me this seems like you are more focus on getting people to talk about your ideas rather than wanting to make that idea be actually useful. This is more of a gut read, so I can see why you think it is fluff. I am trying to use logic and evidence to explain my views, however. Anyways, I want to add that the quote came after you said we should send town with bad reads to heaven. This seems to me as being indecisive, but if I understood something wrong you can correct me. Furthermore, is there actually a LYLO phase in this game? Because the game doesn't end when there's a 50-50 and the people in heaven decide who to lynch in that case. I don't understand how keeping townie people will help in LYLO, so you could clarify it for me please? Also, I don't fear all town leaders. I am questioning a "town leader" which you think it's a good thing. But in your case, you sorta give me a town mediator vibe sorta like "oh what you think about this", very well "what about you?" rather than actually pushing your own ideas. Again, this probably boils down to a difference in playstyle, but I just want to point it out.

As for the easy scum target, I don't understand why you would say that. I believed yesterday there were many easy scum targets, and master fisherman only had one lynch (myself) so I don't understand why you would say that?

Howie M. wrote:Yeah gonna spoiler the quote wall cause I'm pretty sure no one wants to reread the shit they posted.

Main digressions from my own reads are MM's Scumlean on Pete, and the Rory SR on Galea.

I can see where MM is coming from scumleaning Pete for apparently "not being decisive", but honestly at that point of the game where they were active I'd say it's pretty forgivable to be a little hesistant in reads because, in all honesty my reads right now are incredibly volatile, like if everyone suddenly starts talking and game explodes overnight my reads are probably going to change very quickly. So yeah in short I gave him a pass on the hesitance and a +1 for the scumhunting, which puts him neatly in my "light TR" pile. Main issue I have now is the drop-off in activity.

Rory's SR is just a BS reason like "I think she's scum because she's trying to look town" is pretty much what he said and the only reaction you can really give this is like maybe or or or because I don't really see how you make the link between those 2. Rory please feel free to correct me if I misinterpreted but that's how I interpreted it.

Again, my posts are more of a feelings and reflections of the current game, rather than a true analysis. You understanding is correct, my read on Galea is my personal opinion, which is hard to explain. I tried above but I don't know if it will change any of your opinions because it is still heavily reliant on my personal feelings.

I also agree with madam muchmoney with the fact that I think Howie should be sent to heaven today. I read Howie and Pete similarly, however I think Howie is townier than Pete. Pete also seems to be absent from today's discussions so I want to know his thoughts first.

Rory M. wrote:
Yes, I understood your intention and I have no problem with such strategy. I do have a problem with how you presented the idea, however. Personally, it just seems like you have an idea that you thought about and wanted to say it to start a discussion without actually thinking about the strategy first. For example, you said

"as to who we would send instead, I don't really know. That's why I wanted to bring the point up for discussion."

which I understand that the point of your post was to start a discussion but to me this seems like you are more focus on getting people to talk about your ideas rather than wanting to make that idea be actually useful. This is more of a gut read, so I can see why you think it is fluff.

I mean what i'm getting from you here is that you don't like that I brought up an idea without fully thinking about every possible argument against it. I suppose that's ok for you to think (I obviously don't agree with you whatsoever), but i'm struggling to see where you get from this to me being scummy.

Rory M. wrote:Furthermore, is there actually a LYLO phase in this game? Because the game doesn't end when there's a 50-50 and the people in heaven decide who to lynch in that case. I don't understand how keeping townie people will help in LYLO, so you could clarify it for me please?

Yeah I rechecked the theme page and found that I actually misunderstood how the LYLO phase works, my strategy isn't useful whatsoever for that.

Rory M. wrote:
Also, I don't fear all town leaders. I am questioning a "town leader" which you think it's a good thing. But in your case, you sorta give me a town mediator vibe sorta like "oh what you think about this", very well "what about you?" rather than actually pushing your own ideas. Again, this probably boils down to a difference in playstyle, but I just want to point it out.  

1) I didn't say it was a good thing, I said it wasn't a bad thing. Two wholly different statements - we're not in a black & white world.
...Unless you meant the questioning is a good thing, in which case yeah it is, but you literally said you were afraid of town leaders in your post unless I misunderstood you
2) Whenever I ask people about their opinions on something, i've already said my piece beforehand. If I haven't, it's either something that isn't really relevant to me (e.g. specific points made against a person) or its something I talk about in the post itself.

Rory M. wrote:
As for the easy scum target, I don't understand why you would say that. I believed yesterday there were many easy scum targets, and master fisherman only had one lynch (myself) so I don't understand why you would say that?

Explained this one already, realized it was the end of the day so my path of reasoning was wrong.

Rory M. wrote:
I also agree with madam muchmoney with the fact that I think Howie should be sent to heaven today. I read Howie and Pete similarly, however I think Howie is townier than Pete. Pete also seems to be absent from today's discussions so I want to know his thoughts first.

Why aren't you lynching Howie if you currently want to send him to heaven? Not sure why Pete being absent would impact your vote, since you want to send Howie over him anyways.

I'm sorry! I don't want to lurk I just jump on to see if there are any new posts but don't have enough time to actually put anything thorough together. I've got a really bad week happening this week and next week but I should have time to actually post this weekend. I promise this is just bad timing and I'll be good to post tomorrow!

So since this game is so dead, my idea is to take the active players from both games and make a new one. It'd have to be a different theme, which kinda sucks, but yeah that's probably the best option rn. Thoughts?

I'm cool, a redo is fine.

I would also be fine with that.

Oops I got subbed out

mfw

well, I can now deduce that it is lylo

I here I'm villy?

absolutely

Can confirm I’m Mafia with Professor Jacuzzi

aj?

So, um...who was scum?

rip aj

scum was me mm and rory
aj told me the game's over
we were absolutely winning this regardless, town was garbage and inactive (aside from howie), as per usual