Re: Game 26: F11

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:54 pm

i've covered why I was so focused on cop like 10 times already i'm not saying it again
your post implied that that's all i've done which is absolutely not true
plurshifting by itself isnt necessarily bad, but morrison blatantly plurshifted while attempting to give a reason (which was absolutely terrible).

I highly doubt i'm changing anyone's mind today (especially given that rita seems to have gone to sleep)
Lynch Harrison first, then Ellen if he flips town. If they both flip town, I'll be very surprised. If you don't lynch them both and one of them is scum, i'll lose my shit in the postgame.
I'll be checking back every now and then in case people change their minds.

by Morrison Z. Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:55 pm

Oh the plur shifting? I didn't hide it, I specifically said from my point of view I have to lynch either Ellen or Wilbur to shift plurality and I think Wilbur is a better lynch option than Ellen.

Also Wilbur, you can disregard the other thing I said but I did point out that Keanu's filler posts were well before you lynched me day 1 so that reasoning doesn't make sense.

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:56 pm

Ellen has a lynch on her?
You never said that Keanu's posts were filler before I lynched you, go check page two again.

by Morrison Z. Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:59 pm

And the day 2 thing was just one thing, I also mentioned that I agreed with Rita's point about your lynch Day 1 well before I thought of lynching you so its not like I'm just making up reasons to lynch you right now. Yes, it is based off because I know Im not scum and so I have to take plurality off of me by lynching either you or Ellen but the reasons I gave were as to why I think its better to lynch you over Ellen

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:00 pm

My point was more of your gradual shift with imo pretty bad evidence was scummy.
That being said, there also being a lynch on Ellen changes things in my mind.
Unlynch Morrison, Lynch Ellen
Repeat the reasons you have again, Morrison? I'm going to attempt to explain to you why they're wrong.

by Morrison Z. Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:01 pm

Wilbur R. wrote:Ellen has a lynch on her?
You never said that Keanu's posts were filler before I lynched you, go check page two again.

Yeah, I think Leona lynched her. And no, I'm saying cause u said that you lynched me day 1 over Keanu only because I was fillering before Keanu even said anything (you're saying that Keanu fillered after you lynched me) but I'm saying that you lynched me after Keanu made both of his posts.

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:02 pm

Ah yeah, you're right there (I already mentioned I misremembered). That being said, I still stand by my lynch on you day 1 and unless you disagree with it being better (from a neutral standpoint) I don't see why it's an issue.

by Morrison Z. Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:03 pm

Wilbur R. wrote:My point was more of your gradual shift with imo pretty bad evidence was scummy.
That being said, there also being a lynch on Ellen changes things in my mind.
Unlynch Morrison, Lynch Ellen
Repeat the reasons you have again, Morrison? I'm going to attempt to explain to you why they're wrong.

Before that, Why does this change your mind? o.o

by Morrison Z. Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:04 pm

Wilbur R. wrote:Ah yeah, you're right there (I already mentioned I misremembered). That being said, I still stand by my lynch on you day 1 and unless you disagree with it being better (from a neutral standpoint) I don't see why it's an issue.

Well I;m not saying you're lynch on me day 1 was wrong. Its just that you were trying to justify why you hopped on the bandwagon and I'm just pointing out why you're justification doesnt make sense.

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:05 pm

If you have multiple options and you go with the one that's probably going to be harder to pull off, that seems townie to me. Its also not as blatant of a plurshift (although yes, it still is) for that reason.
Essentially, you would have had a much easier time fabricating a case against Ellen than you would have with me, so that along with you being semi-consistent makes the move seem townier than it would have without the option to plurshift onto Ellen.

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:06 pm

Morrison Z. wrote:
Wilbur R. wrote:Ah yeah, you're right there (I already mentioned I misremembered). That being said, I still stand by my lynch on you day 1 and unless you disagree with it being better (from a neutral standpoint) I don't see why it's an issue.

Well I;m not saying you're lynch on me day 1 was wrong. Its just that you were trying to justify why you hopped on the bandwagon and I'm just pointing out why you're justification doesnt make sense.

If the justification doesn't make sense, then the lynch is wrong, no?
From my viewpoint you were the best lynch on day 1. As such, I lynched you. That's essentially what's being discussed. Do you or do you not believe that your filler was worse than Keanu's?

by Morrison Z. Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:09 pm

Wilbur, Idk if you've already said this before, but do you have any particular reasons for saying Ellen or me could be scum? Or are you just going by the process of elimination and narrowing it to the two of us?

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:10 pm

(in case you need reference, these are the three quotes from Morrison/Keanu I would have classified as filler. There's also one from ellen but i'm going to ignore that.)

Morrison Z. wrote:EXCUSE ME MISS NEVER GONNA GET THE D, I'LL HAVE YOU KNOW YOUR PONYTA COULDN'T EVEN WIN THE RACE WITHOUT ASH'S HELP

Keanu R. wrote:Agreed

Morrison Z. wrote:^^^

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:11 pm

Morrison Z. wrote:Wilbur, Idk if you've already said this before, but do you have any particular reasons for saying Ellen or me could be scum? Or are you just going by the process of elimination and narrowing it to the two of us?

Neither of your posts have really brought anything new to the table. I did bring up that Ellen's like a Rita lite, in that it feels like she's repeating everything Rita says. You're playing like classic noobtown/noobscum but I legitimately have no idea which. It's also a bit of poe because I'm fairly certain everyone else is town from interacting with them / reading their posts.
Scum -> Town for me atm is Ellen -> you -> Leona -> Rita -> McGinty -> Tierra.

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:12 pm

I think ellen has basically just followed everything that rita's done, thinking about it.
...aside from the Morrison push. Is there anything else i'm forgetting about?

by Morrison Z. Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:12 pm

Wilbur R. wrote:
Morrison Z. wrote:
Wilbur R. wrote:Ah yeah, you're right there (I already mentioned I misremembered). That being said, I still stand by my lynch on you day 1 and unless you disagree with it being better (from a neutral standpoint) I don't see why it's an issue.

Well I;m not saying you're lynch on me day 1 was wrong. Its just that you were trying to justify why you hopped on the bandwagon and I'm just pointing out why you're justification doesnt make sense.
If the justification doesn't make sense, then the lynch is wrong, no?
From my viewpoint you were the best lynch on day 1. As such, I lynched you. That's essentially what's being discussed. Do you or do you not believe that your filler was worse than Keanu's?

Let me rephrase it in a better way, I'm saying that when Rita accused you of being a sheep, it just seemed like you needed to find a reason and so you said that you were gonna lynch Keanu but you lynched me because I was being more annoying. Yes, I was being annoying and yes you're lynch on me made sense but you can't deny that you were bandwagoning because you didn't provide any reason for it until day 2 where you were being called out on it for. So its difficult to assume that that was the reason you lynched me when you didn't mention it when you actually lynched me.

by Morrison Z. Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:14 pm

That goes back to Rita saying that you and Leona have proved that you can be active and provide insights but only do it when you're being questioned or pressured.

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:18 pm

Morrison Z. wrote:
Wilbur R. wrote:
Morrison Z. wrote:
Wilbur R. wrote:Ah yeah, you're right there (I already mentioned I misremembered). That being said, I still stand by my lynch on you day 1 and unless you disagree with it being better (from a neutral standpoint) I don't see why it's an issue.

Well I;m not saying you're lynch on me day 1 was wrong. Its just that you were trying to justify why you hopped on the bandwagon and I'm just pointing out why you're justification doesnt make sense.
If the justification doesn't make sense, then the lynch is wrong, no?
From my viewpoint you were the best lynch on day 1. As such, I lynched you. That's essentially what's being discussed. Do you or do you not believe that your filler was worse than Keanu's?

Let me rephrase it in a better way, I'm saying that when Rita accused you of being a sheep, it just seemed like you needed to find a reason and so you said that you were gonna lynch Keanu but you lynched me because I was being more annoying. Yes, I was being annoying and yes you're lynch on me made sense but you can't deny that you were bandwagoning because you didn't provide any reason for it until day 2 where you were being called out on it for. So its difficult to assume that that was the reason you lynched me when you didn't mention it when you actually lynched me.

That's not what I said at all? I dont recall ever saying I was going to lynch Keanu. I said sheeping and bandwagoning are essentially the same thing, and I already said I was sheeping the lynch??? You know what I meant by sheeping, right?

Morrison Z. wrote:That goes back to Rita saying that you and Leona have proved that you can be active and provide insights but only do it when you're being questioned or pressured.

I mean, my inactivity is semi-forced for reasons I can't say now, and i've also covered the reason I haven't discussed anything outside the cop until now, but ok
Regardless of me providing insights, what do you think about those insights? are they valid? invalid? why?
They're good discussion points for tomorrow, best to start on them today while I can still talk about them.

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:19 pm

Also unless you have more points that you haven't been talking about I don't see why you'd still be lynching me after this response. Lynching someone for only being active when they're part of the conversation is pretty bad when you have a viable lynch (Ellen) due to them actually being scummy.

by Rita O. Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:23 pm

Wilbur R. wrote:
Rita O. wrote:So I've been thinking about it and i still strongly feel the mafia is between wilbur and leona. I could easily build a case on ellen's kinda lacking and pretty defensive posts or perhaps morrison's posts for the same sort of reason with perhaps a little more variation. But the point is day 2 they have been posting everyday (until ellen today where i saw her come online but didnt do anything) which gave me the feel that they are actually trying. However with Wilbur and Leona after pressing them they delivered posts with sparkling quality and Wilbur defended himself pretty well. It just goes to show their capability and so that begs the question, why is it that they are doing it only when pressed? Wilbur could have been trying to figure out cop AND scumhunt in all the days that wasnt the very last day of day 2. Thats why I am reluctant on stating the obvious textbook checklist because I know that mafia is capable of being smart.

Anyway so the reasons why I am lynching Wilbur is because firstly he BWd on morrison straight after the first lynch on morrison which even if he was a good lynch for filler, jumping on the BW that quickly without any other reason apart from "he's a goddamn awful presence" seems off. On top of that the plurality shift on morrison to make sure Keanu doesnt get lynched from plurality seems too much of a coincidence. Hindsight wouldnt really apply because you already know that Keanu is the mafia if I am assuming you are mafia.

The next point is that although you have been focused on finding out who the cop is and you are totally right by saying that the cop is our most reliable way of finding the mafia. However spending half of day 2 posting non-stop about the cop without even one post on trying to scumhunt is a bit off to me. Heck you convinced me that you are perfectly capable of making thorough posts about the mafia but thats because you were pressed. So why not combine your posts by talking about both cop and mafia where your productivity would be doubled? Instead you chose to keep talking about the cop which meant not a single post from you helped town to find the mafia. To me that looks like you are just being a hinderance to town while trying to look like you are doing something useful. Understand that I am not saying thay finding the cop isnt useful, I am saying that not even trying to scumhunt isnt useful while masking it with the excuse that you are trying to find the cop.

I am gonna drop the reasoning about the nightkill because it makes sense to me but not to anyone else lol. I kind of also want to make a list of reasons why leona can be mafia but its almost midnight and I am really tired and i dunno if i feel comfortable switching my lynch in the last couple of hours before deadline.
RE: low post count pre-day 2. Yes, I was lazy and didn't feel like posting until I was pressured. However, it's false that I haven't been posting about finding the cop until the last couple days, since that was literally the first thing I did after commenting on how bad the nightkill was (as Harrison said, I was the first poster).
RE: Harrison lynch. Straight up, did you have a better option? The Keanu lynch was pretty clearly a pressure lynch (doesn't make McGinty any less townie) and I still stand by Harrison being the best lynch for the day.
RE: Being insistent on the cop: Yeah, I saw that as the best way to win the game so I wanted to get that cleared up before I moved on to anything else. People being slightly resistant to it made it go on longer than I preferred, but w/e.

ATM you seem unsure about what to do and you're of the mindset of "I should stick with my lynch because I had my reasons for it." I'm seriously asking you to reconsider because a lot of your reasoning is flawed / based on opinion, and as i'm about to say, there's a better lynch right now.

1) i am pretty sure i didnt say that, i said that you only scumhunted on the last day (today) and instead you've been non-stop on the cop for the rest of day 2 (specifically the first half of it). My point was that you coulda done both from the start of day 2 and not just focus on cop because you have clearly shown you can scumhunt well.

2) The Keanu lynch was a pressure lynch and not a bandwagon unlike your lynch. The means of your BW was weird too because of how you did it straight after the intital lynch happened as if to secure the plurality away from keanu in case McGinty or any other lynch on Keanu came earlier. I am not saying you shouldnt have lynched morrison, it was the way it happened.

3) Pretty similar to 1) I know its a good way but i would have wanted you to do both that and scumhunt. Not scumhunting on the last day. It just givesme the impression that you are using the cop thing as an excuse to not scumhunt.

Believe me I am actually really close to switching mynlynch to elena because of how she went from "i think wilbur is town" to "i think wilbur is scum" without much reasoning of her own but w/e

by Morrison Z. Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:25 pm

Kay so now would be a good time to go back to my read list. So ya know how I said that there was a possibility I realized but I wasn't gonna say until the time was right. It was really random but it made sense to me that you could be doc.
Because like that would make sense as to why you were being so persistent on cop claiming b/c according to you its confirmed that there is a cop and thats why you didn't let go of it despite everyone telling you not to worry about it but I doubt it now because you would have claimed by now. (If you are doc you should still say so tho Razz

)

But now that thats out of the way, you said that you lynched because of filler and that it was between me or Keanu and that Keanu only filtered after you made your last post for the day so you lynched me.

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:26 pm

if you're really close, rita, why aren't you?

1) misread your post, sorry. That's fair, but I didn't want to and sigh again i've said why multiple times

2) OK like I seriously think you're just suffering from the bias where you have a scumread and you really don't want to get rid of it. If you agree that Morrison is the best lynch, why do you think that I had any other reason other than that to lynch him? I didn't.

3) Covered this at 1. I suppose that's fair, but it's just a difference in priorities between me and you.

by Morrison Z. Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:27 pm

Rita O. wrote:
Wilbur R. wrote:
Rita O. wrote:So I've been thinking about it and i still strongly feel the mafia is between wilbur and leona. I could easily build a case on ellen's kinda lacking and pretty defensive posts or perhaps morrison's posts for the same sort of reason with perhaps a little more variation. But the point is day 2 they have been posting everyday (until ellen today where i saw her come online but didnt do anything) which gave me the feel that they are actually trying. However with Wilbur and Leona after pressing them they delivered posts with sparkling quality and Wilbur defended himself pretty well. It just goes to show their capability and so that begs the question, why is it that they are doing it only when pressed? Wilbur could have been trying to figure out cop AND scumhunt in all the days that wasnt the very last day of day 2. Thats why I am reluctant on stating the obvious textbook checklist because I know that mafia is capable of being smart.

Anyway so the reasons why I am lynching Wilbur is because firstly he BWd on morrison straight after the first lynch on morrison which even if he was a good lynch for filler, jumping on the BW that quickly without any other reason apart from "he's a goddamn awful presence" seems off. On top of that the plurality shift on morrison to make sure Keanu doesnt get lynched from plurality seems too much of a coincidence. Hindsight wouldnt really apply because you already know that Keanu is the mafia if I am assuming you are mafia.

The next point is that although you have been focused on finding out who the cop is and you are totally right by saying that the cop is our most reliable way of finding the mafia. However spending half of day 2 posting non-stop about the cop without even one post on trying to scumhunt is a bit off to me. Heck you convinced me that you are perfectly capable of making thorough posts about the mafia but thats because you were pressed. So why not combine your posts by talking about both cop and mafia where your productivity would be doubled? Instead you chose to keep talking about the cop which meant not a single post from you helped town to find the mafia. To me that looks like you are just being a hinderance to town while trying to look like you are doing something useful. Understand that I am not saying thay finding the cop isnt useful, I am saying that not even trying to scumhunt isnt useful while masking it with the excuse that you are trying to find the cop.

I am gonna drop the reasoning about the nightkill because it makes sense to me but not to anyone else lol. I kind of also want to make a list of reasons why leona can be mafia but its almost midnight and I am really tired and i dunno if i feel comfortable switching my lynch in the last couple of hours before deadline.
RE: low post count pre-day 2. Yes, I was lazy and didn't feel like posting until I was pressured. However, it's false that I haven't been posting about finding the cop until the last couple days, since that was literally the first thing I did after commenting on how bad the nightkill was (as Harrison said, I was the first poster).
RE: Harrison lynch. Straight up, did you have a better option? The Keanu lynch was pretty clearly a pressure lynch (doesn't make McGinty any less townie) and I still stand by Harrison being the best lynch for the day.
RE: Being insistent on the cop: Yeah, I saw that as the best way to win the game so I wanted to get that cleared up before I moved on to anything else. People being slightly resistant to it made it go on longer than I preferred, but w/e.

ATM you seem unsure about what to do and you're of the mindset of "I should stick with my lynch because I had my reasons for it." I'm seriously asking you to reconsider because a lot of your reasoning is flawed / based on opinion, and as i'm about to say, there's a better lynch right now.

1) i am pretty sure i didnt say that, i said that you only scumhunted on the last day (today) and instead you've been non-stop on the cop for the rest of day 2 (specifically the first half of it). My point was that you coulda done both from the start of day 2 and not just focus on cop because you have clearly shown you can scumhunt well.

2) The Keanu lynch was a pressure lynch and not a bandwagon unlike your lynch. The means of your BW was weird too because of how you did it straight after the intital lynch happened as if to secure the plurality away from keanu in case McGinty or any other lynch on Keanu came earlier. I am not saying you shouldnt have lynched morrison, it was the way it happened.

3) Pretty similar to 1) I know its a good way but i would have wanted you to do both that and scumhunt. Not scumhunting on the last day. It just givesme the impression that you are using the cop thing as an excuse to not scumhunt.

Believe me I am actually really close to switching mynlynch to elena because of how she went from "i think wilbur is town" to "i think wilbur is scum" without much reasoning of her own but w/e

Elena? Ellen or Leona? I'm assuming Ellen

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:29 pm

Morrison Z. wrote:Kay so now would be a good time to go back to my read list. So ya know how I said that there was a possibility I realized but I wasn't gonna say until the time was right. It was really random but it made sense to me that you could be doc.
Because like that would make sense as to why you were being so persistent on cop claiming b/c according to you its confirmed that there is a cop and thats why you didn't let go of it despite everyone telling you not to worry about it but I doubt it now because you would have claimed by now. (If you are doc you should still say so tho )

But now that thats out of the way, you said that you lynched because of filler and that it was between me or Keanu and that Keanu only filtered after you made your last post for the day so you lynched me.

i'm not doctor, you guys don't need to worry about lynching a power role. Fairly certain this is an all vanilla game. (reiterating that if a doctor is itg, be on tierra lol)

I said I THOUGHT that was the case but acknowledged that I was incorrect when you pointed it out. I remember that I lynched you because I agreed with what tierra said + felt you were the best lynch, but did not remember the precise posts before & after the lynch.

Seriously you guys

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:30 pm

forgot to finish the last sentence whoops!

i'm asking you guys to look at ellen and compare that to your reasoning for lynching me. I legitimately think that the only reason(s) you guys have on me are based on feelings whereas there is pretty hard evidence that Ellen hasn't done much aside from mimic Rita and push Harrison. (and that terrible reason for lynching me lol)

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