Re: Game 26: F11

by Rita O. Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:44 pm

Wilbur answering your question I think it's because from near the start of day 2 I had this feeling that either you or Leona is the 2nd scum but the feeling was heavier against Leona because at the time she kept pressing on people to talk and giving ideas on how to scumhunt without actually scumhunting. She however convinced me that she is a useful and good at scumhunting so I compiled my reasons on why you should be lynched.

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:51 pm

Rita O. wrote:About the hidden thing, it turns out AJ didnt make it a rule but i thought it was coz AJ used to keep removing the hidden status. The hidden thing per se wasnt the scummy bit, it was the fact that in your previous post you said that you will post about the actual mafia "tomorrow". This to me showed that you had to go to bed or maybe you were busy so you cant log in for the rest of the day. I checked after that day and on the members list it showed the time and date of you last being here so it wasnt hidden yet. But i checked now and i saw that it has been hidden. This means you've logged on between then and now and put your status to hidden instead of posting which begs the question, why? Thats why its scummy.

I don't think "sheeping" is a widly used term tbh because it wasnt really just me who commented about that. In day 1 both tierra and ellen got annoyed at you for BW and said that they weren't a sheep. So they probably believed it meant another word for BW. That being said, even if its day 1, i disagree that you layer the lynch straight after the first person lynched without them explaining and making themselves useful especially when it was just because he's trolling. Which is why your lynch can still, with good reason, be classed as a bandwagon to get plurality on to morrison and ensure Keanu doesnt get lynched.

About the final point, its a very weak one which is why i said that it can barely convict you of anything. But I took into consideration the reasons why the nightkill happened and i thought about doc protection, OMS being doc and the fact OMS was the first lynch on keanu. I didnt think OMS being doc made sense and I explained that in a previous post. I didnt think OMS being the least protected was the reason because there were better targets that werent likely protected either. So OMS being the first lynch on Keanu made some sense only if the mafia decided the kill on AJs post. Since you replied when RVS ended it could be said that you didnt pay attention in the RVS stage and also because OMS's post was long you could have missed the lynch bit entirely while skimming coz you disregarded it as shitpost. Again this is a very weak point against you so dont dwell on it too much.

I mostly used process of elimination to get to the decision that Wilbur is the best lynch because McGinty and Tierra are unlikely mafia. Ellen and morrison are unlikely to make the kill against OMS because they made it clear that they have acknowledged OMs's post because they replied to it. So it leaves Wilbur and Leona and Wilbur felt scummier in my eyes. Wilbur if you can convince me that you are less scummier than Leona and provide some cutting edge analysis then I will unlynch you.

Speaking of Leona, I wonder why she or ellen arent speaking. I know i said ellen probably isnt mafia but it doesnt mean she isnt scummy...

I did go to sleep after posting that i'd make a post tomorrow, then never did because i'm lazy.
aj removed my hidden status and i put it back on. Thought I said this already but I may have forgotten, it's just something we do regardless of what my role is.
The way I use sheeping is to mean that you're following a lynch for the exact same reasons that had already been put forward. It's basically the same as bandwagoning.
At the point I lynched Morrison, he was easily the best lynch for filler (Keanu didn't filler until after my post, by which time I had already stopped checking psanon I think). I think that because you think i'm scum, you're using confirmation bias in a lot of your points (by that I mean that they're very opinionated and there isnt really anything factually true in them). Your logic of not having acknowledged that a post has been made = not having read the post is flawed, and that's really the only thing you've used to eliminate Morrison and Ellen. I don't think that's valid at all. I'm not going to attempt to convince you that Leona is scum because I think she's town.
Also stop asking me to not dwell on your points while you're still lynching me. I think your case is weak, and i'm pointing out why.

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:52 pm

Rita O. wrote:Wilbur answering your question I think it's because from near the start of day 2 I had this feeling that either you or Leona is the 2nd scum but the feeling was heavier against Leona because at the time she kept pressing on people to talk and giving ideas on how to scumhunt without actually scumhunting. She however convinced me that she is a useful and good at scumhunting so I compiled my reasons on why you should be lynched.

can you give examples of what you mean by your point on Leona? I didn't notice that when I was reading through the game.

by Rita O. Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:17 pm

Leona L. wrote:
McGinty P. wrote:24 hours later, one person speaks. aj, get your subs ready... or just remind everyone. Please, we need some activity to scumhunt.

I appreciate your efforts to encourage discussion, but all your posts have been this without actually contributing to the actual scum hunting. If you want to scum hunt, then you should lead it. Also I'm not sure how much information we can gain from day 1 since we are still in RVS stage.

I do agree with the Hypo strategy since there is a possibility of a Mafia Roleblocker.

Leona L. wrote:
Ellen D. wrote:Still waiting on a decent post from Morrison, Tierra, and Leona. I don't want Morrison lynched today because of his latest post. Towers seems to be having problems with being busy so I guess I would be happy to lynch Leona today.

Here's what I don't like about this post. You are scumhunting by activity not with logical explanation. Remember that Keanu was lynched because he was posting fillers, not because he didn't post at all. I believe that at this moment, scumhunting by activity is not useful because mafia, being in a desperate position, will try to be active and act townie. Also, may I ask why you don't want to lynch Morrison because of his latest post?

Leona L. wrote:
Tierra A. wrote:Sorry give me a second

It would be nice to hear you thoughts and not just switching lynches every time you post.

Those were all the posts she said before I made that post.
There isnt much scumhunting, instead she was criticising on how others are scumhunting and giving ideas on how to do it which I know isnt a bad thing. However its ironic because she told mcginty to lead the scumhunting but she hasnt been doing actual scumhunting herself. Therefore my process of thought back then is that she is sitting back and watching everybody do the scumhunting while giving the impression that she is helping.

I said to not dwell only on one point on why you killed OMS but my other points are not as weak as you say because BW is a legitimate reason and "forgetting to post" is a very unlikely thing to do when you physically log on to the forums and make your status hidden.

Then tell me why would ellen or morrison kill OMS when they know OMS didnt lynch keanu for a legit reason? There are better kills than OMS if the mafia is trying to minimize the chance of doc protect (probably you or Leona). And like i said before OMS is very unlikely to be the doc. I would make more sense if you or Leona killed OMS because morrison and ellen can perhaps be kept those who get mislynched and then mcginty and perhaps myself are most likely protected by doc. Finally what separates you from Leona is the fact McGinty mentioned Leona that she was the only one who made a good quality post. So it makes more sense that you would not kill Leona because she might be protected by doc than the other way round. Understand that i use "likely and unlikely" a lot because i am using the balance of probability. Which is why it makes the most sense to me that you are most likely the mafia in my eyes even if you are not the scummiest.

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:35 pm

Rita O. wrote:
Leona L. wrote:
Ellen D. wrote:Still waiting on a decent post from Morrison, Tierra, and Leona. I don't want Morrison lynched today because of his latest post. Towers seems to be having problems with being busy so I guess I would be happy to lynch Leona today.

Here's what I don't like about this post. You are scumhunting by activity not with logical explanation. Remember that Keanu was lynched because he was posting fillers, not because he didn't post at all. I believe that at this moment, scumhunting by activity is not useful because mafia, being in a desperate position, will try to be active and act townie. Also, may I ask why you don't want to lynch Morrison because of his latest post?

Those were all the posts she said before I made that post.
There isnt much scumhunting, instead she was criticising on how others are scumhunting and giving ideas on how to do it which I know isnt a bad thing. However its ironic because she told mcginty to lead the scumhunting but she hasnt been doing actual scumhunting herself. Therefore my process of thought back then is that she is sitting back and watching everybody do the scumhunting while giving the impression that she is helping.

I said to not dwell only on one point on why you killed OMS but my other points are not as weak as you say because BW is a legitimate reason and "forgetting to post" is a very unlikely thing to do when you physically log on to the forums and make your status hidden.

Then tell me why would ellen or morrison kill OMS when they know OMS didnt lynch keanu for a legit reason? There are better kills than OMS if the mafia is trying to minimize the chance of doc protect (probably you or Leona). And like i said before OMS is very unlikely to be the doc. I would make more sense if you or Leona killed OMS because morrison and ellen can perhaps be kept those who get mislynched and then mcginty and perhaps myself are most likely protected by doc. Finally what separates you from Leona is the fact McGinty mentioned Leona that she was the only one who made a good quality post. So it makes more sense that you would not kill Leona because she might be protected by doc than the other way round. Understand that i use "likely and unlikely" a lot because i am using the balance of probability. Which is why it makes the most sense to me that you are most likely the mafia in my eyes even if you are not the scummiest.

I'm ignoring the first and third quotes because I don't think they're relevant to the point you're bringing up (I suppose the third one kind of is, just based on how you look at it). The second quote I actually think she's bringing up as an incorrect/scummy point (which i'd call scumhunting). I think Leona hasnt had a solid lead yet which is why she's kinda been less pushy I suppose? It'd be nice to see something more solid from Leona though, I agree on that.
Where'd I say I forgot to post? I re-read my posts and the only reason I provided (which is the truth) is that I was too lazy to post.
The reason for killing OMS has already been provided: whoever did so likely thought he was the doctor. I don't see any other reason that people would kill him. Just because YOU think that he's unlikely to be the doctor doesn't mean that this is the case. I can even bring up the point you were using in your argument: that the people saying that killing OMS for X reason would be the ones most likely to kill him in the first place.
I can't even understand the rest of what you're saying lol

All of the points you've brought up thus far for your lynch on me are either incorrect or just based on an assumption (which is a personal opinion and can't be proven correct or incorrect). Can you please reiterate your argument for me?

by Rita O. Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:21 pm

Oh whoops i read that wrong i thought you said you forgot to post. Being lazy for a whole day tho is a bit weird but w/e. I guess it was because you had no incentive since no one pressed you until today. Speaking of which its really weird that only a few hours until deadline and it's only me and you talking throughout the day.

I am pretty sure a lot of people would also agree that a doc would not just confirm then forget about the game because being a power role makes anyone feel a sense of responsibility which is why doc tends to play in the middle of the pack where they say good stuff but less of it. Leona would have probably fit the average doc style and she wasnt a risky shot. Its not just that because i said so its the truth, because a lot of people were like "damn I havent thought of that" i cant remember exactly who but it shows that a lot of people agree that OMS wouldnt strike anyone as the doc.

Anyway a lot has happened and this argument has been useful, so I am gonna have to re-read everything and compile a hopefully better argument against you or against someone who I believe is more likely the mafia.

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:23 pm

Rita O. wrote:Oh whoops i read that wrong i thought you said you forgot to post. Being lazy for a whole day tho is a bit weird but w/e. I guess it was because you had no incentive since no one pressed you until today. Speaking of which its really weird that only a few hours until deadline and it's only me and you talking throughout the day.

I am pretty sure a lot of people would also agree that a doc would not just confirm then forget about the game because being a power role makes anyone feel a sense of responsibility which is why doc tends to play in the middle of the pack where they say good stuff but less of it. Leona would have probably fit the average doc style and she wasnt a risky shot. Its not just that because i said so its the truth, because a lot of people were like "damn I havent thought of that" i cant remember exactly who but it shows that a lot of people agree that OMS wouldnt strike anyone as the doc.

Anyway a lot has happened and this argument has been useful, so I am gonna have to re-read everything and compile a hopefully better argument against you or against someone who I believe is more likely the mafia.

You underestimate how lazy I can be.
The rest of that's a majority of the reasoning behind my inactivity, yes. The overall inactivity is not weird at all for psanon standards, just annoying.

I do agree with you that most of the time, a doctor isnt going to just confirm and then forget about the game, but they may just confirm and then lurk for a long time. I agree with your point about Leona and completely think she was a better shot than OMS last night. That being said, i'm pretty sure it was Ellen who said that, and it was actually in regards to mafia thinking OMS WAS the doc.

I think this has been useful too, you strike me as townier now, which makes me want to lynch between Harrison and Ellen today. I'm not sure which, and i'll probably make my decision when there's more to go off of.

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:24 pm

Leona L. wrote:Actually, I just realized something. Perhaps another reason why Old Man Swamp was lynched is because there may be a doctor? We are so caught up with asking for cop claims we forgot that the mafia have no idea what they are dealing with. Rita, since you seems to be leading this discussion, I want to hear what you think about this.

Lastly, I am seriously considering lynching Wilbur instead of Ellen. Because I don't see Wilbur contributing this much anytime soon.

Ellen D. wrote:Actually thinking about it, that makes a lot of sense
Old Man Swamp seemed kind of quiet, and that seems like a doc kinda think to do

the quotes I was referencing in the previous post

by Rita O. Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:41 pm

So I've been thinking about it and i still strongly feel the mafia is between wilbur and leona. I could easily build a case on ellen's kinda lacking and pretty defensive posts or perhaps morrison's posts for the same sort of reason with perhaps a little more variation. But the point is day 2 they have been posting everyday (until ellen today where i saw her come online but didnt do anything) which gave me the feel that they are actually trying. However with Wilbur and Leona after pressing them they delivered posts with sparkling quality and Wilbur defended himself pretty well. It just goes to show their capability and so that begs the question, why is it that they are doing it only when pressed? Wilbur could have been trying to figure out cop AND scumhunt in all the days that wasnt the very last day of day 2. Thats why I am reluctant on stating the obvious textbook checklist because I know that mafia is capable of being smart.

Anyway so the reasons why I am lynching Wilbur is because firstly he BWd on morrison straight after the first lynch on morrison which even if he was a good lynch for filler, jumping on the BW that quickly without any other reason apart from "he's a goddamn awful presence" seems off. On top of that the plurality shift on morrison to make sure Keanu doesnt get lynched from plurality seems too much of a coincidence. Hindsight wouldnt really apply because you already know that Keanu is the mafia if I am assuming you are mafia.

The next point is that although you have been focused on finding out who the cop is and you are totally right by saying that the cop is our most reliable way of finding the mafia. However spending half of day 2 posting non-stop about the cop without even one post on trying to scumhunt is a bit off to me. Heck you convinced me that you are perfectly capable of making thorough posts about the mafia but thats because you were pressed. So why not combine your posts by talking about both cop and mafia where your productivity would be doubled? Instead you chose to keep talking about the cop which meant not a single post from you helped town to find the mafia. To me that looks like you are just being a hinderance to town while trying to look like you are doing something useful. Understand that I am not saying thay finding the cop isnt useful, I am saying that not even trying to scumhunt isnt useful while masking it with the excuse that you are trying to find the cop.

I am gonna drop the reasoning about the nightkill because it makes sense to me but not to anyone else lol. I kind of also want to make a list of reasons why leona can be mafia but its almost midnight and I am really tired and i dunno if i feel comfortable switching my lynch in the last couple of hours before deadline.

by Morrison Z. Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:43 pm

Well, I'm gonna die in two and a half hours but I'm still having trouble organizing my thoughts. My iffiness with Wilbur was for different reasons than Rita except for that one point that she pointed out. Lemme find Wilbur's post and continue

by Morrison Z. Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:50 pm

Wilbur R. wrote:I think that was legitimately the worst kill possible for mafia to make

If cop is alive, they should claim, and doctor should be on them for every night going forward. Clearing one townie per night is worth the townie we're going to lose each night as a result (unless the townie cleared is the one that dies, which will rarely happen if at all)

Claiming / a lack of claiming also answers which setup we're in.

This first one right after the mafia kill has me thinking because it seems as if he was prepared for the kill and kind of knew how to react? Its hard to explain but he also proceeds with saying something really obvious (Not saying i haven't stated obvious things in the past) but like it kind of gives the illusion that he's that townie that promptly knew how things were gonna go right after night kill and the cop thing was something everyone would have noticed but saying it makes him seem more helpful.
But on the other hand, I find it to be a strange way for mafia to play especially after the rough start.

There was something else he said that I wanted to comment on but I can't find it, I'm gonna look for it again one sec.

by Morrison Z. Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:54 pm

Wilbur R. wrote:
Rita O. wrote:About the hidden thing, it turns out AJ didnt make it a rule but i thought it was coz AJ used to keep removing the hidden status. The hidden thing per se wasnt the scummy bit, it was the fact that in your previous post you said that you will post about the actual mafia "tomorrow". This to me showed that you had to go to bed or maybe you were busy so you cant log in for the rest of the day. I checked after that day and on the members list it showed the time and date of you last being here so it wasnt hidden yet. But i checked now and i saw that it has been hidden. This means you've logged on between then and now and put your status to hidden instead of posting which begs the question, why? Thats why its scummy.

I don't think "sheeping" is a widly used term tbh because it wasnt really just me who commented about that. In day 1 both tierra and ellen got annoyed at you for BW and said that they weren't a sheep. So they probably believed it meant another word for BW. That being said, even if its day 1, i disagree that you layer the lynch straight after the first person lynched without them explaining and making themselves useful especially when it was just because he's trolling. Which is why your lynch can still, with good reason, be classed as a bandwagon to get plurality on to morrison and ensure Keanu doesnt get lynched.

About the final point, its a very weak one which is why i said that it can barely convict you of anything. But I took into consideration the reasons why the nightkill happened and i thought about doc protection, OMS being doc and the fact OMS was the first lynch on keanu. I didnt think OMS being doc made sense and I explained that in a previous post. I didnt think OMS being the least protected was the reason because there were better targets that werent likely protected either. So OMS being the first lynch on Keanu made some sense only if the mafia decided the kill on AJs post. Since you replied when RVS ended it could be said that you didnt pay attention in the RVS stage and also because OMS's post was long you could have missed the lynch bit entirely while skimming coz you disregarded it as shitpost. Again this is a very weak point against you so dont dwell on it too much.

I mostly used process of elimination to get to the decision that Wilbur is the best lynch because McGinty and Tierra are unlikely mafia. Ellen and morrison are unlikely to make the kill against OMS because they made it clear that they have acknowledged OMs's post because they replied to it. So it leaves Wilbur and Leona and Wilbur felt scummier in my eyes. Wilbur if you can convince me that you are less scummier than Leona and provide some cutting edge analysis then I will unlynch you.

Speaking of Leona, I wonder why she or ellen arent speaking. I know i said ellen probably isnt mafia but it doesnt mean she isnt scummy...
I did go to sleep after posting that i'd make a post tomorrow, then never did because i'm lazy.
aj removed my hidden status and i put it back on. Thought I said this already but I may have forgotten, it's just something we do regardless of what my role is.
The way I use sheeping is to mean that you're following a lynch for the exact same reasons that had already been put forward. It's basically the same as bandwagoning.
At the point I lynched Morrison, he was easily the best lynch for filler (Keanu didn't filler until after my post, by which time I had already stopped checking psanon I think). I think that because you think i'm scum, you're using confirmation bias in a lot of your points (by that I mean that they're very opinionated and there isnt really anything factually true in them). Your logic of not having acknowledged that a post has been made = not having read the post is flawed, and that's really the only thing you've used to eliminate Morrison and Ellen. I don't think that's valid at all. I'm not going to attempt to convince you that Leona is scum because I think she's town.
Also stop asking me to not dwell on your points while you're still lynching me. I think your case is weak, and i'm pointing out why.

For the part that I have bolded, I'd like to point out that Keanu had a total of two posts, and both of them were before you lynched me, so unless u weren't reading the chat, you were aware of his filler/ non willingness to contribute.

by Rita O. Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:00 pm

Also did i mention how pissed of I am that last day of day 2 and only 3 people have said something lol. I guess i gotta hand it to Wilbur for persevering with my insanity despite him being apparently lazy. I am surprised that ellen hasnt said anything at all despite being no.2 on plurality and could easily be lynched.

I guess i'll say a few reasons why I think Leona might be mafia. The same reason as Wilbur where I said that she has shown that she can deliver excellent readlists and analysis but only when I told her I wanted to see her do more of that. Also it felt really weird that she didnt reply to ellen's questioning of leona's read against her and instead focused on what i had to say when i was against her. Usually if you lynch someone you discuss it with them like what I am doing with Wilbur because no townie is certain that one is mafia just by scumhunting so they discuss to make sure their lynch is reasonable and stuff like that. It felt like Leona lynched for the sake of lynching rather than genuinely being passionate about finding the mafia even tho she had a legit reason. Instead she focused on defending herself against me. Thats what you call defensive because I didnt even lynch her but she in lynching ellen. Idk if that makes sense tho so tell me if it doesnt and i'll try be more clear.

by Morrison Z. Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:08 pm

I'm gonna take this time to

Lynch Wilbur

I'm still pretty iffy about you but its almost the end of the day, so in my opinion, its the best lynch. from best to worst lynch options, rn it would be Wilbur>Leona>Ellen>Rita>Tierra>McGinty. And for me since my options are between Ellen and Wilbur atm, Wilbur is better imo. If Wilbur isn't scum and I'm alive for tomorrow, I'd like to look more into Leona and Ellen because unless Rita is pro scum, from my point of view it'd have to be between them.

by Ellen D. Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:20 pm

Yeah that makes sense Rita
Anyway I am so annoyed because I was doing a geography project while catching up on the 2 pages while playing a mafia game because I tell myself I can multitask when I can't. I typed up about 3/4 of my post then the game of mafia finished so I was like ehh I'll finish geography after Christmas and logged off losing my post

Anyway dl is in 4 hours and I'm going to sleep in an hourish so I need to make sure plurality isn't put on me

This gives me 2 options
Morrison or Wilbur

I have been targeting Morrison for the first bit of d2, but tbh Wilbur isn't being very great rn either

I will be lunching someone before I fall asleep, and I want all of you people to convince me to lynch either Noreison or Wilbur
Fun

by Rita O. Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:21 pm

Morrison Z. wrote:
Wilbur R. wrote:I think that was legitimately the worst kill possible for mafia to make

If cop is alive, they should claim, and doctor should be on them for every night going forward. Clearing one townie per night is worth the townie we're going to lose each night as a result (unless the townie cleared is the one that dies, which will rarely happen if at all)

Claiming / a lack of claiming also answers which setup we're in.

This first one right after the mafia kill has me thinking because it seems as if he was prepared for the kill and kind of knew how to react? Its hard to explain but he also proceeds with saying something really obvious (Not saying i haven't stated obvious things in the past) but like it kind of gives the illusion that he's that townie that promptly knew how things were gonna go right after night kill and the cop thing was something everyone would have noticed but saying it makes him seem more helpful.
But on the other hand, I find it to be a strange way for mafia to play especially after the rough start.

There was something else he said that I wanted to comment on but I can't find it, I'm gonna look for it again one sec.

Errr he's not exactly gonna start grieving if it really is his maf partner dead, any mafia would cover up the feelings to not give them away. I think you should elaborate about the reaction thing, what would you have expected to be a natural reaction?

by Ellen D. Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:26 pm

lynch wilbur

We have enough ml's so lunching Wilbur doesn't hurt. He only cares about cop anyway

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:31 pm

Rita O. wrote:So I've been thinking about it and i still strongly feel the mafia is between wilbur and leona. I could easily build a case on ellen's kinda lacking and pretty defensive posts or perhaps morrison's posts for the same sort of reason with perhaps a little more variation. But the point is day 2 they have been posting everyday (until ellen today where i saw her come online but didnt do anything) which gave me the feel that they are actually trying. However with Wilbur and Leona after pressing them they delivered posts with sparkling quality and Wilbur defended himself pretty well. It just goes to show their capability and so that begs the question, why is it that they are doing it only when pressed? Wilbur could have been trying to figure out cop AND scumhunt in all the days that wasnt the very last day of day 2. Thats why I am reluctant on stating the obvious textbook checklist because I know that mafia is capable of being smart.

Anyway so the reasons why I am lynching Wilbur is because firstly he BWd on morrison straight after the first lynch on morrison which even if he was a good lynch for filler, jumping on the BW that quickly without any other reason apart from "he's a goddamn awful presence" seems off. On top of that the plurality shift on morrison to make sure Keanu doesnt get lynched from plurality seems too much of a coincidence. Hindsight wouldnt really apply because you already know that Keanu is the mafia if I am assuming you are mafia.

The next point is that although you have been focused on finding out who the cop is and you are totally right by saying that the cop is our most reliable way of finding the mafia. However spending half of day 2 posting non-stop about the cop without even one post on trying to scumhunt is a bit off to me. Heck you convinced me that you are perfectly capable of making thorough posts about the mafia but thats because you were pressed. So why not combine your posts by talking about both cop and mafia where your productivity would be doubled? Instead you chose to keep talking about the cop which meant not a single post from you helped town to find the mafia. To me that looks like you are just being a hinderance to town while trying to look like you are doing something useful. Understand that I am not saying thay finding the cop isnt useful, I am saying that not even trying to scumhunt isnt useful while masking it with the excuse that you are trying to find the cop.

I am gonna drop the reasoning about the nightkill because it makes sense to me but not to anyone else lol. I kind of also want to make a list of reasons why leona can be mafia but its almost midnight and I am really tired and i dunno if i feel comfortable switching my lynch in the last couple of hours before deadline.

RE: low post count pre-day 2. Yes, I was lazy and didn't feel like posting until I was pressured. However, it's false that I haven't been posting about finding the cop until the last couple days, since that was literally the first thing I did after commenting on how bad the nightkill was (as Harrison said, I was the first poster).
RE: Harrison lynch. Straight up, did you have a better option? The Keanu lynch was pretty clearly a pressure lynch (doesn't make McGinty any less townie) and I still stand by Harrison being the best lynch for the day.
RE: Being insistent on the cop: Yeah, I saw that as the best way to win the game so I wanted to get that cleared up before I moved on to anything else. People being slightly resistant to it made it go on longer than I preferred, but w/e.

ATM you seem unsure about what to do and you're of the mindset of "I should stick with my lynch because I had my reasons for it." I'm seriously asking you to reconsider because a lot of your reasoning is flawed / based on opinion, and as i'm about to say, there's a better lynch right now.

Morrison Z. wrote:
Wilbur R. wrote:I think that was legitimately the worst kill possible for mafia to make

If cop is alive, they should claim, and doctor should be on them for every night going forward. Clearing one townie per night is worth the townie we're going to lose each night as a result (unless the townie cleared is the one that dies, which will rarely happen if at all)

Claiming / a lack of claiming also answers which setup we're in.

This first one right after the mafia kill has me thinking because it seems as if he was prepared for the kill and kind of knew how to react? Its hard to explain but he also proceeds with saying something really obvious (Not saying i haven't stated obvious things in the past) but like it kind of gives the illusion that he's that townie that promptly knew how things were gonna go right after night kill and the cop thing was something everyone would have noticed but saying it makes him seem more helpful.
But on the other hand, I find it to be a strange way for mafia to play especially after the rough start.

There was something else he said that I wanted to comment on but I can't find it, I'm gonna look for it again one sec.

?????
This is actually garbage, you're saying because I was the first person to post that I had a pre-prepared reaction? I went on to explain why this was incorrect, so it's not like i'm saying something useless there. It's clear that mafia didn't kill OMS for being a productive townie, so I was confused as to what reasoning they had.

Morrison Z. wrote:
Wilbur R. wrote:
Rita O. wrote:About the hidden thing, it turns out AJ didnt make it a rule but i thought it was coz AJ used to keep removing the hidden status. The hidden thing per se wasnt the scummy bit, it was the fact that in your previous post you said that you will post about the actual mafia "tomorrow". This to me showed that you had to go to bed or maybe you were busy so you cant log in for the rest of the day. I checked after that day and on the members list it showed the time and date of you last being here so it wasnt hidden yet. But i checked now and i saw that it has been hidden. This means you've logged on between then and now and put your status to hidden instead of posting which begs the question, why? Thats why its scummy.

I don't think "sheeping" is a widly used term tbh because it wasnt really just me who commented about that. In day 1 both tierra and ellen got annoyed at you for BW and said that they weren't a sheep. So they probably believed it meant another word for BW. That being said, even if its day 1, i disagree that you layer the lynch straight after the first person lynched without them explaining and making themselves useful especially when it was just because he's trolling. Which is why your lynch can still, with good reason, be classed as a bandwagon to get plurality on to morrison and ensure Keanu doesnt get lynched.

About the final point, its a very weak one which is why i said that it can barely convict you of anything. But I took into consideration the reasons why the nightkill happened and i thought about doc protection, OMS being doc and the fact OMS was the first lynch on keanu. I didnt think OMS being doc made sense and I explained that in a previous post. I didnt think OMS being the least protected was the reason because there were better targets that werent likely protected either. So OMS being the first lynch on Keanu made some sense only if the mafia decided the kill on AJs post. Since you replied when RVS ended it could be said that you didnt pay attention in the RVS stage and also because OMS's post was long you could have missed the lynch bit entirely while skimming coz you disregarded it as shitpost. Again this is a very weak point against you so dont dwell on it too much.

I mostly used process of elimination to get to the decision that Wilbur is the best lynch because McGinty and Tierra are unlikely mafia. Ellen and morrison are unlikely to make the kill against OMS because they made it clear that they have acknowledged OMs's post because they replied to it. So it leaves Wilbur and Leona and Wilbur felt scummier in my eyes. Wilbur if you can convince me that you are less scummier than Leona and provide some cutting edge analysis then I will unlynch you.

Speaking of Leona, I wonder why she or ellen arent speaking. I know i said ellen probably isnt mafia but it doesnt mean she isnt scummy...
I did go to sleep after posting that i'd make a post tomorrow, then never did because i'm lazy.
aj removed my hidden status and i put it back on. Thought I said this already but I may have forgotten, it's just something we do regardless of what my role is.
The way I use sheeping is to mean that you're following a lynch for the exact same reasons that had already been put forward. It's basically the same as bandwagoning.
At the point I lynched Morrison, he was easily the best lynch for filler (Keanu didn't filler until after my post, by which time I had already stopped checking psanon I think). I think that because you think i'm scum, you're using confirmation bias in a lot of your points (by that I mean that they're very opinionated and there isnt really anything factually true in them). Your logic of not having acknowledged that a post has been made = not having read the post is flawed, and that's really the only thing you've used to eliminate Morrison and Ellen. I don't think that's valid at all. I'm not going to attempt to convince you that Leona is scum because I think she's town.
Also stop asking me to not dwell on your points while you're still lynching me. I think your case is weak, and i'm pointing out why.

For the part that I have bolded, I'd like to point out that Keanu had a total of two posts, and both of them were before you lynched me, so unless u weren't reading the chat, you were aware of his filler/ non willingness to contribute.

Yeah, you're right there. That was a misremembering on my part. That being said, your filler was much much worse than his. I don't think you can dispute that.

Morrison Z. wrote:I'm gonna take this time to

Lynch Wilbur

I'm still pretty iffy about you but its almost the end of the day, so in my opinion, its the best lynch. from best to worst lynch options, rn it would be Wilbur>Leona>Ellen>Rita>Tierra>McGinty. And for me since my options are between Ellen and Wilbur atm, Wilbur is better imo. If Wilbur isn't scum and I'm alive for tomorrow, I'd like to look more into Leona and Ellen because unless Rita is pro scum, from my point of view it'd have to be between them.

LOL this is such a blatantly obvious attempt to shift plurality off of yourself. You read me as townie and then flipped your opinion as soon as you could to get a lynch off of yourself.
Lynch Morrison

given that Rita seems to be pretty set atm and I have zero confidence that anyone else is going to come on, i'm probably going to be the lynch today.
That being said, you guys should absolutely lynch Morrison tomorrow, and if he's somehow not scum then go Ellen->Leona/Rita for the lynches (game's gonna end after three mislynches so no need to tell you to do anything else).

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:31 pm

lol yikes that reason from ellen is hot garbage you guys can lynch her over morrison tomorrow as well i suppose

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:32 pm

ellen if you'd like to explain why i'm "not so great" right now that would be 10/10

by Morrison Z. Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:33 pm

Rita O. wrote:
Morrison Z. wrote:
Wilbur R. wrote:I think that was legitimately the worst kill possible for mafia to make

If cop is alive, they should claim, and doctor should be on them for every night going forward. Clearing one townie per night is worth the townie we're going to lose each night as a result (unless the townie cleared is the one that dies, which will rarely happen if at all)

Claiming / a lack of claiming also answers which setup we're in.

This first one right after the mafia kill has me thinking because it seems as if he was prepared for the kill and kind of knew how to react? Its hard to explain but he also proceeds with saying something really obvious (Not saying i haven't stated obvious things in the past) but like it kind of gives the illusion that he's that townie that promptly knew how things were gonna go right after night kill and the cop thing was something everyone would have noticed but saying it makes him seem more helpful.
But on the other hand, I find it to be a strange way for mafia to play especially after the rough start.

There was something else he said that I wanted to comment on but I can't find it, I'm gonna look for it again one sec.

Errr he's not exactly gonna start grieving if it really is his maf partner dead, any mafia would cover up the feelings to not give them away. I think you should elaborate about the reaction thing, what would you have expected to be a natural reaction?

Not saying he would grieve. Its hard to explain. Like for example, you know how after someone dies and their role is revealed you have multiple thoughts about it and the next day when you talk about it you're kind of prepared to say things? I got that vibe from him except from the night kill. Like even when I first read that post I was like "Oh thats a strange way to react". Cause like normally when you're mafia, its can be tricky to react to your partner's death in a normal way (I would know cause I've screwed up several times in past games lol) but like he said what he said and then he immediately started talking about cop and doc which as i said before is something everyone could have noticed. Now I feel like I'm over analyzing this lol It makes more sense in my head.

by Wilbur R. Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:33 pm

you're definitely overanalyzing it.

by Morrison Z. Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:39 pm

;_;

idk

;_;

by Ellen D. Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:49 pm

What I mean is you asked for cop, lurked, asked for cop again, got lynched, and then in the final day of today you finally did something. I certainly agree that Morrisons reasoning for the 'first post of day 2' thing is garbage, one thing I read that I disagree with thoughwas that you mentioned Morrison Plurshifting

If you are a vt with plurality on you, and there is a non PR, non confirmed Player that you can put plurality on, you should do it, because from your POV, you are town and you know it, but there is a chance they are mafia. Plurshiftig isn't scummy

BUT one thing that I do find scummy is the that Morrison tried to hide it (also Wilbur it's not Harrison its Morrison) I find that to be weird. Maybe he just thinks it's scummy and didn't want people to get angry at him for it.
*crosses fingers we hit scum*

by Morrison Z. Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:53 pm

ITS NOT GARBAGE IT MAKES SENSE IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT ;_;

I tried to hide what?

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