Re: Game 29: Guess Who?

by **ajhockeystar** Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:11 pm

The Rodman has been subbed out. A new user is now using the account.

by Sanpei S. Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:43 pm

Honestly? I keep feeling like wanting to lynch PJ (especially what's-his-face's ISO) is just confirmation bias at it's finest. You expect him to be scum, therefore you find things that are scummy.

by Rhyanna F. Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:19 pm

if you think he's town go find townie things he's said then
people are bringing up reasons they think he's scum, dismissing them like you are doing is very anti-town

ill read the other posts later but i wanted to respond to that one

by Penelope C. Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:16 pm

I had almost finished this post around the time The Rodman was subbed out, however I had to leave before I could complete it. This is based on my reads at that time-since it seems there have been few posts since then, they are pretty much the same.

Kylan R.-Weak townread.

(Thanks for joining us, firstly!) Hasn’t made that many posts out of RVS, so I’m still mostly neutral on them. Despite this, I’m leaning towards a townread since his post brings up original and valid reasons as opposed to just saying something like “I agree, weird interactions,” as well as the fact that he went back and amended a scumread to a townread (if this wasn’t what you meant to imply, I’m sorry).

Professor Jacuzzi-Weak scumread.

Even disregarding playstyle differences, I’m weakly scum reading Jacuzzi. In addition to what I mentioned earlier, while reading back I’ve noticed that they said they would “post some reads later today” (on page 3) and only really gave reads on Anita, unless I accidentally scrolled past something.

Rhyanna F.-Townread.

Nothing’s really changed regarding my opinion of Rhyanna. Nothing clears anyone in this theme. I wouldn’t use that as a basis for a scumread. When I started writing the post I was actually neutral on Rhyanna, but I think that view is being partially influenced by Sanpei’s really sudden switch to Rhyanna because of something that didn’t actually happen. Disregarding that, I agree that the fact Rhyanna didn’t try to shift plurality off of Anita at any point is a pretty good indicator of being town.

I’m going to hold off on trying to read The Rodman, now that there’s a sub who I assume plans on contributing.

Horatio A.-Neutral.

I was preparing a reads post earlier and was going to start with the people who hadn’t been here. That’s now basically, Horatio, who showed up to vote for Anita and went right back to lurking. I too would appreciate more activity from Horatio.

Sanpei S.-Scumread.

I already mentioned disliking the aggression, but, as mentioned above, you also tried to point out something that didn’t even happen and use it as a basis for a lynch. In my opinion, you also overreacted slightly when someone suggested that you were scum, seeing as the person who was scumreading you had made a wallpost earlier explaining their read. This leads to a stronger scumread than I have on Professor Jacuzzi, so I am going to Unlynch Professor Jacuzzi and lynch Sanpei S.

Ian S.-Scumread.

Manning makes good points against them, and the post where they switch from Sanpei to Jacuzzi does read like a “Hey guys, I know Anita’s scummy but this other person’s totally a better lynch.” The effect’s strengthened in my opinion by Ian not going as in depth with hid read on Jacuzzi the way he did with Sanpei.

Carl G.-Weak scumread.

While Carl never tried to push a lynch off of Anita and onto someone else, he never actually contributed anything to the discussion about Anita aside from a mention that she was fillering. He also never did actually lynch Anita (even after saying “expect an Anita lynch from me.”)

Manning P.-Townread.

I said I was going to wait on reading Manning until I saw Anita’s defense and Manning’s response to it. Seeing as his response was to put her at L-1, I doubt the two are partners.

Summary (Weaker reads in italics):

Townread: Kylan R., Rhyanna F., Manning P.

Scumread: Professor Jacuzzi, Sanpei S., Ian S., Carl G.

Neutral: Horatio A., The Rodman.

by Rhyanna F. Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:39 am

im caught up
nothing i really wanted to respond to is there
just gonna post how i feel about people on a -10 to 10 scale where -10 is sure scum and 10 is sure town with a bit of reasoning
ill probably add more later on, just not right now

Professor Jacuzzi: -4, really just due to the connections to anita that i pointed out before
Horatio A.: -2, his lynch post on anita was a worse copy of pj's and idt hes posted much else aside from that. anita also lynched him after scumreading penelope which was strange
The Rodman: 1, just bc of the randlynch on anita that remained till end of day
Sanpei S.: 0, he started off today w/ a 2 but I dont like the way he's been approaching the day thus far
Penelope C.: -1, anita scumreading her and then not lynching her was super weird. was sometimes p aggressive but content has overall been good
Kylan R.: 2, the little content we've gotten from him is good imo
Ian S.: 2, Fairly good content but aside from that nothing that would make me want to townread him
Carl G.: 7, posting style + content looks v town to me, i've really liked the way hes been approaching things
Manning P.: 5, had him a bit lower but penelope pointing out that he lynched anita after her defense is a good point and something that makes him look townier, its possible that he could have been distancing himself though, general content and questioning people has been good, dislike how he semi-kinda went after inactives earlier in this day

by Rhyanna F. Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:46 am

actually thinking about it penelope bringing up manning's lynch in correlation to anita's defense is v townie so shes probably a 1 not a -1 in my eyes

by Professor Jacuzzi Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:20 am

@Kylan

Alright so you made a good point about Horatio. I thought I did actually post something about him a bit back, idk what happened there. Maybe I'm just losing my mind. Anyway I guess I'll make a post about him now.

Honestly there's not a lot to look at imo. He's made three posts overall, one was pregame and another was right at the beginning of RVS. The only thing of note was his wall post on Anita. I don't think I ever really explained why I found it scummy so here goes.

Horatio A. wrote:(I'm probably late here, but oh well still must say)

Manning P. wrote:lynch the rodman

third is always scum get him

Firstly, usin' "third is always scum" isn't really a good reason to RVS, since it's now easily seen through as nothing really that important and is sorta the same as a lynch without reasoning tbh.

Idk if anyone else noticed this, but Horatio's comment here is actually really unusual. Of course "third is always scum" is the same as a lynch without reasoning. The point of the lynch was just to get the game going. "A good reason to RVS" doesn't even make sense: you don't need a reason to random lynch, that's why it's random?

Horatio A. wrote:
Secondly, I don't really like Anita's reactions to lynches especially with most of them being filler/unhelpful contributions such as:

Anita B. wrote:
Sanpei S. wrote:You don't just ask us our thoughts on you lynching people.

You lynch them, and then see what we think. God.

Unlynch Professor Jacuzzi, Lynch Anita B.

Asking us to "approve" your lynch seems like a scummy thing to do, no? It's as though you're mafia asking town what to do so you can try to fit in better.

Can confirm I'm Mafia with professor jacuzzi

Lynch Penelope C

^ clear trolling/filler that contributes nothing at all.

This is near identical to what I said in my post directly above.

Professor Jacuzzi wrote:
Someone brings up some valid concerns about you... and you just react by claiming scum. That's just trolly and unhelpful.

Ironic how they call someone out for filler when they're doing the same thing.

Horatio A. wrote:
Anita B. wrote:
Rhyanna F. wrote:
Carl G. wrote:Not really sure why we're spreading lynches just for the sake of it. No clue why exactly this has any use when we all know this is just usual day 1 meta. Anyway, how about you all explain your lynches when you carry them out for a change? It's always nice for that to happen.

My reasoning is that Anita is clearly mafia

Anita B. wrote:Hello folks! Now that we've started, I figure we can just do this properly, after the usual d1 Bs ofc.

So I'd like to see what everyone's thoughts on me lynching Horatio A or Penelope C?

Both of those lynches are fine, but I think lynching Anita B. is a better lynch over those two.

Same

'Same' is once again an un-usefulness contribution.

Also similar to what I said above, can't be bothered quoting it this time though.

Horatio A. wrote:
Thirdly, I don't get why Anita is asking people to come back so oftenly?

Anita B. wrote:Because honestly, you seem really flippant between me / penelope c / The rodman

speaking of rodman

YO RODMAN could you please explain your actions, thanks!

^ asking to explain one action

What's wrong with asking someone to explain one action?

Horatio A. wrote:
Anita B. wrote:
Ian S. wrote:Now that I have seen the monstrosity that is my picture, time to post reads, and oh so many interesting things I have seen.

Dude your picture is amazing.

Also Professor Jacuzzi can you come back pls

^ Wanting someone to come back who has only been gone for ~10 hours or so?

ahem

Professor Jacuzzi wrote:
I've been gone for like 12 hours, you know sleep exists right?

Also, for whoever said I called someone out for just repeating what other people said when I did the same myself (can't remember who it was): at the time of my lynch on Anita, there were only two other people on the bandwagon, Rhyanna and Rodman. Rhyanna's lynch was a random one from RVS. Rodman posted literally one line about how he believed Anita's scum claim. I actually went through and analysed Anita's posts and explained why I thought they were scummy. I don't see how you can say that was just me bringing up old stuff, but please, do enlighten me.

by Rhyanna F. Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:14 pm

i think that was kylan but he realized that you posted before horatio not the other way around
correct me if im wrong

by Manning P. Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:13 pm

unlynch the rodman since i assume hopefully correctly that hes gonna be active now.
lynch ian because its about time i actually went on my scum read which i didnt do earlier because i didnt realise deadline was tomorrow and wanted to get the inactive slots to talk.
also sorry for lack of posts again and for not going indepth with anything this time but game seems kinda dead. guys just because we lynched mafia doesnt mean we can stop posting completely.

by **ajhockeystar** Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:15 pm

Votecount 2.2
******************************
Professor Jacuzzi(1)- Rhyanna F.
Sanpei S.(1)- Penelope C.
Ian S.(1)- Manning P.
The Rodman(0)-
Kylan R.(0)
Rhyanna F.(0)-
Horatio A.(0)-
Penelope C.(0)-
Carl G.(0)-
Manning P.(0)-
Not Voting(7)- The Rodman, Horatio A., Kylan R., Ian S., Professor Jacuzzi, Sanpei S., Carl G.
******************************
There are 10 alive so it takes 6 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Sunday the 12th at 9pm EST.

If the deadline was now, Professor Jacuzzi would be lynched.

by Carl G. Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:22 pm

@Penelope:
if its any consolation, i just simply could not get on at deadline like i thought and didnt lynch in time. still dont quite understand how the me not lynching her even though i had a pretty good explanation of my stance on Anita makes me a weak scum lean though. could you elaborate on that please?

also it's not like your argument is very valid in the first place considering the bullshit you can see in your past posts. lemme break down my thoughts for everyone.

Penelope C. wrote:.....(blah blah blah wall post blah blah blah)
It's taken longer to type this post than I anticipated, so I can't stay online for too long at the moment. But for the time being, I'm going to lynch Anita B.
........

right so first of all penelope goes ahead and lynches anita. gives a pretty bulky reasoning behind it, doesnt seem that suspicious. this puts anita at L-1, which is sort of important.

Penelope C. wrote:Incoming reads post. The first two are based on my scumreading Anita, so obviously if she turns out to not be scum their relevance drops to zero

I have a slight townread on Professor Jacuzzi at the moment, in part because I scumread Anita B. and seriously doubt that scum would name their partner like that (if this is the case, it's some pretty heavy WIFOM). According to Rhyanna F. their interactions have seemed "off," so I wouldn't mind examples of this.

One thing I thought I'd never say is that I have a strong neutral read on someone, but that's how I'd describe my feelings towards Manning P.-not only because he's done very little but because I'm not sure if he genuinely plans on weighing Anita's defense or if he's postponing a lynch on a potential scumbuddy. (This is assuming that Anita is scum, and I currently read her as such for reasons I mentioned above.)

I have a townread on Sanpei S. right now because of the reasoning behind things like "Scum would try to defend themselves either way," which I had been interpreting as filler until Sanpei explained it. Albeit, Anita has since gone on to defend themselves. Well, it's actually just a posting of reads, but at least it's an effort at contributing. I also want to hear the defense Manning P. is waiting for, but I don't know if it's actually coming since Anita only said she would be posting more reads.

I've seen The Rodman online a couple of times since his last post, so what's with not posting anything? Just because people called someone out on calling you out, it doesn't grant you a free pass to watch from the sidelines and hope nobody notices.

I'd also like for Kylan R. to appear and contribute, but I don't know if he's actually been online or not.

Because I don't want to come online later to find that someone has quickhammered with BS reasoning (didn't realize my vote was putting Anita at L-1) and also because a part of me does want to see if Anita offers any valid defense, I'm going to unlynch Anita B. for now.

we now have this beauty of a post, where penelope goes ahead and gives us some reads. not necessarily important, but more just the last paragraph. i just dont understand why someone who gave such a detailed reason and post to go ahead and lynch anita would even retract at l-1. scum simply wouldn't 'quickhammer' as penelope puts it on day 1, it would just make them look scummy, and its just idiotic that she would even consider it. i honestly dont like this reasoning at all, and its just weird the way she puts it. seems like a shitty pass at just retracting cause l-1 (and possible scum wanting to just get off their partner, but probably less so). i dont even think that anyone was gonna lynch her until the last day. we still had like a bit over a day left until the deadline and it just seems ridiculous to consider that someone would hammer and stop all the possible day 1 discussion from happening.

may i also just emphasise the fact that her lynch had a lot of basis behind it by the fact that she says:

Penelope C. wrote:Starting with the second thing I mentioned earlier, I would like to point out that I did have my own reasons for lynching Anita, namely that the two people she’d asked to speak were someone with a seemingly RVS vote on her and an active player as opposed not people who haven’t even been playing the game (aside from the one with the RVS vote). This is also a portion of the rest I wanted to say in response to Anita’s post.

Since my earlier post, a part of me has developed that wants to believe the “Why would I make myself so obvious?”, though I’m still acknowledging the chance of it being WIFOM. The only reason I want to believe it is because it makes actual sense, but I also don’t see why town would filler like that or ask for more from someone who was already contributing.
....

as she says in the first paragraph "I did have my own reasons for lynching Anita". ie 'i didnt RVS and retracted even though i emphasised that i had a strong scum lean on her throughout all my posts up to just before this point'.

lemme also just highlight the second part. i get its wifom and therefore isnt really useful to gain a pov, but she basically says the wifom that anita gave is making her think that she's possibly towny as a result of being so active. quite honestly doubt that considering the bulk of stuff up to that point in the game, but i'd also love to hear why she thinks otherwise.

this was never intended as a wall post about penelope, but hey ho, you just got one for free out of me. this probably reads as a load of nonsense, but im sure it's likely useful in some way. these are really just pretty rough thoughts i got from my current stance on penelope, which is that there's a lot of issues that i have with what she's said, and her plays are just making next to no sense to me. i could totally have had my tin foil hat on a bit too much when writing this and it's probably a bit too tunnel heavy, but i feel it's useful to get out there, even if it's a load of crap/conspiracy. now lynching her atm due to this past while spent reading over her stuff.

ill probably drop some basic reads or something tomorrow and make my mind up a bit more.

lynch penelope

by Professor Jacuzzi Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:08 pm

Ian S. wrote:Never expected Anita to flip scum, tbh. Reads and thoughts coming tonight, after I take a nap.

Idk what happened here, but Ian never gave any reads like he said he would, and this has been his only post today, which makes me think he's trying to lurk and avoid suspicion. He didn't explain why he didn't expect Anita to flip scum either which is interesting. Manning made a good pot about Ian a bit back which I agree with as well. I'll read a bit more into his posts later but if he doesn't post anything more before the dl then I'll probably end up shifting on to him.

by Kylan R. Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:45 pm

I haven't got much new to contribute from my last post, and since PJ went ahead and posted his - albeit thin - Horatio iso, I'd like to quickly refute Carl's most recent post.

Carl G. wrote:@Penelope:
if its any consolation, i just simply could not get on at deadline like i thought and didnt lynch in time. still dont quite understand how the me not lynching her even though i had a pretty good explanation of my stance on Anita makes me a weak scum lean though. could you elaborate on that please?

also it's not like your argument is very valid in the first place considering the bullshit you can see in your past posts. lemme break down my thoughts for everyone.

fair enough. At least half of game isn't gonna be on the Anita wagon, be it for activity, didn't want to end day prematurely, or because you thought someone else was scum. Happens.

Carl G. wrote:
Penelope C. wrote:.....(blah blah blah wall post blah blah blah)
It's taken longer to type this post than I anticipated, so I can't stay online for too long at the moment. But for the time being, I'm going to lynch Anita B.
........
right so first of all penelope goes ahead and lynches anita. gives a pretty bulky reasoning behind it, doesnt seem that suspicious. this puts anita at L-1, which is sort of important.
Penelope C. wrote:Incoming reads post. The first two are based on my scumreading Anita, so obviously if she turns out to not be scum their relevance drops to zero

I have a slight townread on Professor Jacuzzi at the moment, in part because I scumread Anita B. and seriously doubt that scum would name their partner like that (if this is the case, it's some pretty heavy WIFOM). According to Rhyanna F. their interactions have seemed "off," so I wouldn't mind examples of this.

One thing I thought I'd never say is that I have a strong neutral read on someone, but that's how I'd describe my feelings towards Manning P.-not only because he's done very little but because I'm not sure if he genuinely plans on weighing Anita's defense or if he's postponing a lynch on a potential scumbuddy. (This is assuming that Anita is scum, and I currently read her as such for reasons I mentioned above.)

I have a townread on Sanpei S. right now because of the reasoning behind things like "Scum would try to defend themselves either way," which I had been interpreting as filler until Sanpei explained it. Albeit, Anita has since gone on to defend themselves. Well, it's actually just a posting of reads, but at least it's an effort at contributing. I also want to hear the defense Manning P. is waiting for, but I don't know if it's actually coming since Anita only said she would be posting more reads.

I've seen The Rodman online a couple of times since his last post, so what's with not posting anything? Just because people called someone out on calling you out, it doesn't grant you a free pass to watch from the sidelines and hope nobody notices.

I'd also like for Kylan R. to appear and contribute, but I don't know if he's actually been online or not.

Because I don't want to come online later to find that someone has quickhammered with BS reasoning (didn't realize my vote was putting Anita at L-1) and also because a part of me does want to see if Anita offers any valid defense, I'm going to unlynch Anita B. for now.
we now have this beauty of a post, where penelope goes ahead and gives us some reads. not necessarily important, but more just the last paragraph. i just dont understand why someone who gave such a detailed reason and post to go ahead and lynch anita would even retract at l-1. scum simply wouldn't 'quickhammer' as penelope puts it on day 1, it would just make them look scummy, and its just idiotic that she would even consider it. i honestly dont like this reasoning at all, and its just weird the way she puts it. seems like a shitty pass at just retracting cause l-1 (and possible scum wanting to just get off their partner, but probably less so). i dont even think that anyone was gonna lynch her until the last day. we still had like a bit over a day left until the deadline and it just seems ridiculous to consider that someone would hammer and stop all the possible day 1 discussion from happening.

This is something I just flat disagree with. Pulling back from L-1 makes it so that it takes convincing another two folks' votes to end day, and is the safe play to ensure discussion continues for the maximum amount of time. Not only scum can lynch at L-1, town can too, because they're just that confident in the lynch, and don't think discussion will help any more. While that sort of town reasoning is wrong and a bad play, I wouldn't assume that town is smart and will always play right? This is the bulk of what I wanted to say, but I'm gonna give reactions to the rest of your post as well, and this may become an iso. We'll see.

Carl G. wrote:may i also just emphasise the fact that her lynch had a lot of basis behind it by the fact that she says:
Penelope C. wrote:Starting with the second thing I mentioned earlier, I would like to point out that I did have my own reasons for lynching Anita, namely that the two people she’d asked to speak were someone with a seemingly RVS vote on her and an active player as opposed not people who haven’t even been playing the game (aside from the one with the RVS vote). This is also a portion of the rest I wanted to say in response to Anita’s post.

Since my earlier post, a part of me has developed that wants to believe the “Why would I make myself so obvious?”, though I’m still acknowledging the chance of it being WIFOM. The only reason I want to believe it is because it makes actual sense, but I also don’t see why town would filler like that or ask for more from someone who was already contributing.
....
as she says in the first paragraph "I did have my own reasons for lynching Anita". ie 'i didnt RVS and retracted even though i emphasised that i had a strong scum lean on her throughout all my posts up to just before this point'.

lemme also just highlight the second part. i get its wifom and therefore isnt really useful to gain a pov, but she basically says the wifom that anita gave is making her think that she's possibly towny as a result of being so active. quite honestly doubt that considering the bulk of stuff up to that point in the game, but i'd also love to hear why she thinks otherwise.

Asks for clarification in a roundabout sort of way, and honestly I had to read your second paragraph a few times to fully understand. Brings up a good point about how Penelope wanted to give the Town!Activity read vs the Scum!Filler read, and I would like to see Penelope's counter to this. I've been getting heavy vibrations from Penelope's posts, but I wouldn't call her scummy quite yet. Carl leans null, no iso unless y'all want one.

by Rhyanna F. Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:04 pm

Unlynch Professor Jacuzzi
ive been reconsidering and although there was some heavy buddying from anita towards pj, the distancing between anita and horatio is much stranger in my eyes
Lynch Horatio

by Penelope C. Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:30 am

Carl G. wrote:@Penelope:
if its any consolation, i just simply could not get on at deadline like i thought and didnt lynch in time. still dont quite understand how the me not lynching her even though i had a pretty good explanation of my stance on Anita makes me a weak scum lean though. could you elaborate on that please?

The reasoning that for you gave for your stance on Anita essentially repeated things other people had said (namely her filler and use of wifom). I can understand not being able to get on in time to vote, but I’m not just going to rule out the possibility of someone saying “Oh, I’ll be on later,” then not voting and saying afterwards, “Oh, I couldn’t get on in time but I totally would have voted for her if I was here.”

Carl G. wrote:also it's not like your argument is very valid in the first place considering the bullshit you can see in your past posts. lemme break down my thoughts for everyone.
Penelope C. wrote:.....(blah blah blah wall post blah blah blah)
It's taken longer to type this post than I anticipated, so I can't stay online for too long at the moment. But for the time being, I'm going to lynch Anita B.
........
right so first of all penelope goes ahead and lynches anita. gives a pretty bulky reasoning behind it, doesnt seem that suspicious. this puts anita at L-1, which is sort of important.
Penelope C. wrote:Incoming reads post. The first two are based on my scumreading Anita, so obviously if she turns out to not be scum their relevance drops to zero

I have a slight townread on Professor Jacuzzi at the moment, in part because I scumread Anita B. and seriously doubt that scum would name their partner like that (if this is the case, it's some pretty heavy WIFOM). According to Rhyanna F. their interactions have seemed "off," so I wouldn't mind examples of this.

One thing I thought I'd never say is that I have a strong neutral read on someone, but that's how I'd describe my feelings towards Manning P.-not only because he's done very little but because I'm not sure if he genuinely plans on weighing Anita's defense or if he's postponing a lynch on a potential scumbuddy. (This is assuming that Anita is scum, and I currently read her as such for reasons I mentioned above.)

I have a townread on Sanpei S. right now because of the reasoning behind things like "Scum would try to defend themselves either way," which I had been interpreting as filler until Sanpei explained it. Albeit, Anita has since gone on to defend themselves. Well, it's actually just a posting of reads, but at least it's an effort at contributing. I also want to hear the defense Manning P. is waiting for, but I don't know if it's actually coming since Anita only said she would be posting more reads.

I've seen The Rodman online a couple of times since his last post, so what's with not posting anything? Just because people called someone out on calling you out, it doesn't grant you a free pass to watch from the sidelines and hope nobody notices.

I'd also like for Kylan R. to appear and contribute, but I don't know if he's actually been online or not.

Because I don't want to come online later to find that someone has quickhammered with BS reasoning (didn't realize my vote was putting Anita at L-1) and also because a part of me does want to see if Anita offers any valid defense, I'm going to unlynch Anita B. for now.
we now have this beauty of a post, where penelope goes ahead and gives us some reads. not necessarily important, but more just the last paragraph. i just dont understand why someone who gave such a detailed reason and post to go ahead and lynch anita would even retract at l-1. scum simply wouldn't 'quickhammer' as penelope puts it on day 1, it would just make them look scummy, and its just idiotic that she would even consider it. i honestly dont like this reasoning at all, and its just weird the way she puts it. seems like a shitty pass at just retracting cause l-1 (and possible scum wanting to just get off their partner, but probably less so). i dont even think that anyone was gonna lynch her until the last day. we still had like a bit over a day left until the deadline and it just seems ridiculous to consider that someone would hammer and stop all the possible day 1 discussion from happening.

I considered the possibility of someone quickhammering Anita because had she been town, it would be very easy to bandwagon on lynching her, especially if the person doing to used an excuse like “I haven’t been here pretty much all game, but reading through the game I agree with all of these points against Anita.” Also, as you said yourself, we had just over a day’s worth of discussion left that a hammer from anyone, regardless of activity or alignment, would have deprived us of. And if I was scum, unlynching Anita didn’t accomplish much seeing as I made no effort to push onto anyone else (though to be fair one could argue that my comment on Kylan and The Rodman was this) and Anita was lynched anyway.

Carl G. wrote:may i also just emphasise the fact that her lynch had a lot of basis behind it by the fact that she says:
Penelope C. wrote:Starting with the second thing I mentioned earlier, I would like to point out that I did have my own reasons for lynching Anita, namely that the two people she’d asked to speak were someone with a seemingly RVS vote on her and an active player as opposed not people who haven’t even been playing the game (aside from the one with the RVS vote). This is also a portion of the rest I wanted to say in response to Anita’s post.

Since my earlier post, a part of me has developed that wants to believe the “Why would I make myself so obvious?”, though I’m still acknowledging the chance of it being WIFOM. The only reason I want to believe it is because it makes actual sense, but I also don’t see why town would filler like that or ask for more from someone who was already contributing.
....
as she says in the first paragraph "I did have my own reasons for lynching Anita". ie 'i didnt RVS and retracted even though i emphasised that i had a strong scum lean on her throughout all my posts up to just before this point'.

lemme also just highlight the second part. i get its wifom and therefore isnt really useful to gain a pov, but she basically says the wifom that anita gave is making her think that she's possibly towny as a result of being so active. quite honestly doubt that considering the bulk of stuff up to that point in the game, but i'd also love to hear why she thinks otherwise.

In response to the last paragraph, yes, I couldn’t realistically see the scum fillering without quickly amending it in order to avoid being lynched before they could make a nightkill. And no, Anita making a defense and posting some reads (and waiting until page 4 to do so) is not a quick amend. I was very much still scumreading Anita, however I didn't want to put her at L-1 again for the same reason as above, in addition to wanting to see her defense and Manning's response to it.

by Ian S. Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:02 am

So, first off, why I didn't expect Anita to be scum. It's really a lot to do with what Penelope originally said, that they seemed too scummy to actually be scum. I am a huge wifom player, and so I read Anita as more likely to be town based on that.

As for Jacuzzi being my scumread D1, I saw him as using weak reasoning to put a lynch on a player with plur. It just didn't seem like a strong enough reason to put a lynch on Anita, although thinking back she would have only been at 3/6, not really a threat. After the Anita flip, I no longer see him as that scummy.

I am still scumreading on Horatio, although a bit weaker, his reasoning for lynching Anita felt like a copy or PJ. I need to go more in depth on his posts tomorrow, way before DL, but I haven't been on enough to really do so. For now, I am just going to Lynch Horatio and hope he posts something soon. I will as well.

Edit: Removed a copy of player list that I was using for making scumreads. Didn't make enough progress to make a full scumread post, though.

by Manning P. Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:12 am

i would rather sub horatio because he made exactly one game related post and its the sole basis for everyones reads on him right now. i see it as one thing to vote them temporarily to get them to talk but actually following through on a lurker lynch is terrible for the game at this stage.
i would also rather lynch ian since i think i have more substantive evidence on him and his reason to lynch horatio is "uh he copied his reason for lynching anita from jacuzzi he must be scum". seriously horatio isnt townie by any means but hes not a good lynch because it would deprive us from information. i would go as far as saying (while putting on my tunnel glasses) that plurshifting onto him instead of sanpei or penelope is a scummy choice since even though i town read both of them either flip would give us much more info.
also anyone else notice how hes not attempting to defend himself and just offered reads the same way anita did?
seriously someone please help me shift to ian or give me one good reason not to.

by Rhyanna F. Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:41 am

unlynch horatio
ill be back later on some time before deadline, hopefully ill post something useful then

by Horatio A. Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:28 am

Sorry, I haven’t been as active as I want to be but anyways… I guess I’ll just list my reads

Sanpai - Scumread: On Page 2 (not going to bother quoting that wall post) he said “Egotistical players are the best because they'll attempt crazy bullshit that nobody else will. And usually get scum caught in the flounder-y process that follows.” (refering to Penelope) but then lynched Penelope after? and he was also trolling around when Anita asked him “Then why aren’t you scum :^)” with “Because my PM from AJ didn't say I was”. This answer just seems kinda off to me because he was going along with the joke question instead of answering it probably/questioning why anita would ask that out of no where.

Sanpei S. wrote:Hell, what makes you think I'm scum in the first place?

^ that reaction to Ian thinking that you're scum is a little too much imo.
So I’m just going to Lynch Sanpai.

PJ: Neutral: he has done some town-ish things (e.g. such as make a wall post against Anita, suggesting that we should announce when we’re putting people at L-1 in the future and not wanting to waste discussion time) but then the Anita post saying she was partners with PJ is just pure WIFOM and I sorta just want to lynch him so we don’t have to bother with the huge WIFOM case...

Ian: Townread - I think he has a town-ish appearance and has good reasonings/basis's to lynch people/explain why he sr'd/tr'd someone etc.

I don't really have enough time to make a full reads post (but I just made a reads post on the people who currently had a lynch on them) but I'll try and post one later on.

by Manning P. Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:50 am

Horatio A. wrote:Sorry, I haven’t been as active as I want to be but anyways… I guess I’ll just list my reads

Sanpai - Scumread: On Page 2 (not going to bother quoting that wall post) he said “Egotistical players are the best because they'll attempt crazy bullshit that nobody else will. And usually get scum caught in the flounder-y process that follows.” (refering to Penelope) but then lynched Penelope after? and he was also trolling around when Anita asked him “Then why aren’t you scum :^)” with “Because my PM from AJ didn't say I was”. This answer just seems kinda off to me because he was going along with the joke question instead of answering it probably/questioning why anita would ask that out of no where.
Sanpei S. wrote:Hell, what makes you think I'm scum in the first place?
^ that reaction to Ian thinking that you're scum is a little too much imo.
So I’m just going to Lynch Sanpai.
his trolling isnt as constant as anitas and it was early in the game anyway. im inclined to let him get away with that for the time being. also changing your opinion on someone during one post can happen with good reasons.

PJ: Neutral: he has done some town-ish things (e.g. such as make a wall post against Anita, suggesting that we should announce when we’re putting people at L-1 in the future and not wanting to waste discussion time) but then the Anita post saying she was partners with PJ is just pure WIFOM and I sorta just want to lynch him so we don’t have to bother with the huge WIFOM case...
dont like this. you look like youre taking the easy way out which would be ridiculously easy thing to do as scum right now.

Ian: Townread - I think he has a town-ish appearance and has good reasonings/basis's to lynch people/explain why he sr'd/tr'd someone etc.
give examples otherwise i will disregard this entirely.

I don't really have enough time to make a full reads post (but I just made a reads post on the people who currently had a lynch on them) but I'll try and post one later on.

by Carl G. Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:04 am

Kylan R. wrote:
Carl G. wrote:
Penelope C. wrote:Incoming reads post. The first two are based on my scumreading Anita, so obviously if she turns out to not be scum their relevance drops to zero

I have a slight townread on Professor Jacuzzi at the moment, in part because I scumread Anita B. and seriously doubt that scum would name their partner like that (if this is the case, it's some pretty heavy WIFOM). According to Rhyanna F. their interactions have seemed "off," so I wouldn't mind examples of this.

One thing I thought I'd never say is that I have a strong neutral read on someone, but that's how I'd describe my feelings towards Manning P.-not only because he's done very little but because I'm not sure if he genuinely plans on weighing Anita's defense or if he's postponing a lynch on a potential scumbuddy. (This is assuming that Anita is scum, and I currently read her as such for reasons I mentioned above.)

I have a townread on Sanpei S. right now because of the reasoning behind things like "Scum would try to defend themselves either way," which I had been interpreting as filler until Sanpei explained it. Albeit, Anita has since gone on to defend themselves. Well, it's actually just a posting of reads, but at least it's an effort at contributing. I also want to hear the defense Manning P. is waiting for, but I don't know if it's actually coming since Anita only said she would be posting more reads.

I've seen The Rodman online a couple of times since his last post, so what's with not posting anything? Just because people called someone out on calling you out, it doesn't grant you a free pass to watch from the sidelines and hope nobody notices.

I'd also like for Kylan R. to appear and contribute, but I don't know if he's actually been online or not.

Because I don't want to come online later to find that someone has quickhammered with BS reasoning (didn't realize my vote was putting Anita at L-1) and also because a part of me does want to see if Anita offers any valid defense, I'm going to unlynch Anita B. for now.
we now have this beauty of a post, where penelope goes ahead and gives us some reads. not necessarily important, but more just the last paragraph. i just dont understand why someone who gave such a detailed reason and post to go ahead and lynch anita would even retract at l-1. scum simply wouldn't 'quickhammer' as penelope puts it on day 1, it would just make them look scummy, and its just idiotic that she would even consider it. i honestly dont like this reasoning at all, and its just weird the way she puts it. seems like a shitty pass at just retracting cause l-1 (and possible scum wanting to just get off their partner, but probably less so). i dont even think that anyone was gonna lynch her until the last day. we still had like a bit over a day left until the deadline and it just seems ridiculous to consider that someone would hammer and stop all the possible day 1 discussion from happening.
This is something I just flat disagree with. Pulling back from L-1 makes it so that it takes convincing another two folks' votes to end day, and is the safe play to ensure discussion continues for the maximum amount of time. Not only scum can lynch at L-1, town can too, because they're just that confident in the lynch, and don't think discussion will help any more. While that sort of town reasoning is wrong and a bad play, I wouldn't assume that town is smart and will always play right? This is the bulk of what I wanted to say, but I'm gonna give reactions to the rest of your post as well, and this may become an iso. We'll see.

i mean yeah, it's definitely more dangerous having it at l-1, but in what way would people ever consider doing a lynch at that stage? there was still a bulky amount of discussion happening, and plus no one was planning on lynching im sure, considering we had a lot of discussion with people just generally talking about things rather than saying 'im 100% lynching anita' (well apart from me, but apparently people can't forgive me for scumreading heavily on her and not lynching in time). yeah i wouldn't assume either, people do slip up occasionally and just don't make the best plays, understandable, but the whole post just seems like a shitty way to explain why exactly penelope wanted to retract from her, like i said.

onto my penelope responses: (cut out a few of the earlier posts from me and penelope to cut the wall post down, and to save your scroll wheels/fingers)

Penelope C. wrote:
Carl G. wrote:@Penelope:
if its any consolation, i just simply could not get on at deadline like i thought and didnt lynch in time. still dont quite understand how the me not lynching her even though i had a pretty good explanation of my stance on Anita makes me a weak scum lean though. could you elaborate on that please?

The reasoning that for you gave for your stance on Anita essentially repeated things other people had said (namely her filler and use of wifom). I can understand not being able to get on in time to vote, but I’m not just going to rule out the possibility of someone saying “Oh, I’ll be on later,” then not voting and saying afterwards, “Oh, I couldn’t get on in time but I totally would have voted for her if I was here.”

well explain what else was i to bring to the table without giving you all bullshit? i certainly gave a pretty clear view in my reads list on her filler, mentioned about how she just didnt explain things like she should have been, and i really only mentioned the wifom after my reads when you brought it up. however, as you might be able to see from your post about it here and my response to it:

Carl G. wrote:
Penelope C. wrote:
Anita B. wrote:
Ok let's get real in here and flesh this all out.

I mean if I'm going to be honest here, my defence is this: As mafia, why would I make myself so obvious? I've already stated that I knew what I was doing was filler, and that I haven't had much of a townish presence. This is a semi-nightless setup, so as mafia my job is to make sure I be as townie as goddamn possible and to keep me and my partner(s) alive. So why the hell would I post so much, but do so little? I would rather do actual read posts and scumhunt super hard. From my perspective, my actions make no sense when you look at me as mafia.

The fact that this is a semi-nightless setup shouldn't change the mafia's goal of appearing townie not dying. There's also a ton WIFOM possible in "Why would I make myself so obvious?"

This. Appearing to be an active part of town is beneficial as a Mafia member, even more beneficial in this setup considering they'd want to avoid being lynched until they can kill so that they have good odds in terms of winning. I'm not outright saying you're 100% scum Anita, but simply looking at a lot of your contributions you've just been either rattling off a general statement, not really highlighting something that's very important to us as a town, or just fillering.

you quite literally just mention the wifom. i explained that i agreed that the wifom was there, what the heck it meant in regards to the possible plays, and what it meant in regards to my reads. i don't see how thats 'essentially repeating' everything everyone else said considering i've brought plenty of things to the table that (i hope) have been useful to people, and i think you'd have to be ignoring 90% of what i've said to be thinking that.

Penelope C. wrote:
I considered the possibility of someone quickhammering Anita because had she been town, it would be very easy to bandwagon on lynching her, especially if the person doing to used an excuse like “I haven’t been here pretty much all game, but reading through the game I agree with all of these points against Anita.” Also, as you said yourself, we had just over a day’s worth of discussion left that a hammer from anyone, regardless of activity or alignment, would have deprived us of. And if I was scum, unlynching Anita didn’t accomplish much seeing as I made no effort to push onto anyone else (though to be fair one could argue that my comment on Kylan and The Rodman was this) and Anita was lynched anyway.

fairdos, did not think about the whole heavy reads so it would probably have been brushed off, but i don't think that it still was a great reason for that retraction still. yeah we had over a day left, but im not even gonna bother arguing this since im not convincing anyone when i say about my pov on it like i said in the section penelope responded to. it obviously would not have accomplished much, considering the pressure on her and the unlikeliness of anything changing.

Penelope C. wrote:
In response to the last paragraph, yes, I couldn’t realistically see the scum fillering without quickly amending it in order to avoid being lynched before they could make a nightkill. And no, Anita making a defense and posting some reads (and waiting until page 4 to do so) is not a quick amend. I was very much still scumreading Anita, however I didn't want to put her at L-1 again for the same reason as above, in addition to wanting to see her defense and Manning's response to it.

i honestly felt like she did do some contribution. it was definitely filler, but at first glance, it was sorta what people would have wanted to see, when in reality it was just nonsense. i mean yeah, you'd expect scum to aim to 'contribute' to avoid early pressure and avoid being at worse odds than before, but its not like they wouldnt do things like anita. in response to this: "I was very much still scumreading Anita", then why the fuck did you not lynch her when Manning then went and stuck her at L-1 on the final day? you got his response like what you wanted, and she had gave some sort of a response throughout. what stopped you from choosing to lynch her and considering you were still scumreading her and had such a detailed and heavy read on her up to that point.

by The Rodman Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:52 am

Alright so after reading all 7 pages I have some reads.

Town: Rhyanna, Prof. Jacuzzi, and Horatio all come off as town to me due to their apparent seriousness D1 and for the most part supporting the Anita lynch.

Scum: I gotta say Ian because starting from D1 I felt Anita would be scum and when I saw the flip I wasn't surprise. This reads comes off the fact that Ian admits to not scum reading Anita, which I view as possible WIFOM like "mafia wouldn't admit to looking scummy".

Neutral: Everyone else because even if they supported Anita lynch or not they do not come off as town to me.

by Manning P. Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:10 pm

rodman if you think ian is scum you should shift plur to him since theres only 10 hours until deadline.
glad to see you post as well now btw.

by Sanpei S. Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:29 pm

Wait are there two lynches on me? Other than my reaction to someone thinking I'm scum, what have I done that was even remotely scummy?

I've been the one asking for reads/wallposts, I was the one who called Anita into suspicion.

I apologize for misreading the first page which made me sus of someone I should not have, but that should have in no way lead to two lynches on me (given that I'm fairly certain that puts plurality on me)

by Sanpei S. Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:29 pm

If we could get an unlynch before the day ends that would be great.

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