Game 24: Near-Vanilla

Right, so, no more shitposting. Darn. We have a doc and a jk, right? Probably better for them to not claim day one, although doc could protect the JK if the JK claims? Not sure how I'd handle this situation yet, so I say we wait on the PR claims right now. 

By the way, too lazy to check, but we only have a doc and a jk right? And a bunch of VTs?

lets go boys!

If JK claims, doc could protect JK, but if the JK jails the doc then it's rip JK. Not the most sound strategy.

1 doc, 1 jk, 3 maf, 8 VTs @Nanette B.

If we lynch Day 1, then we have a total of 4 misslynches, assuming maf makes a kill every night. This should be easy, all we have to do is lead a witch-hunt against a VT claim.

So, I'll start with the least QT user. Professor Icarus would you like to claim VT?

that would be correct.
from what I see from this theme there isnt much that we could really do d1
Lynch Gurkinn N.

talking about nanettes post btw

Sigh.. @Fernando T. why are you on me...

If it feels good, do it.
Lynch Gurkinn N.

Are you a VT claim, or other?

of course Imma claim VT. why wouldnt I?

this "are you gonna claim VT" thing is kind of pointless, if you're not a VT, there's no reason you'd want to claim it. Mafia because they get killed, doc and jk because they get killed.

Doc can be on JK and JK can be on doc if need be. If you're not a VT though, then I don't want to waste a lynch on a town power role. If we're lynching a potential doc or JK, then yes, there is a point to claiming.

Hey guys.

I am just warning everyone in advance, there will probably be an in-game day or two in here when I will not be able to be talking in this game. Sorry. I will tell you when this happens.

Also, as for claiming in this setup. The "rules" for claiming in this setup are that if you are getting lynched and you are either doc or JK, claim. If someone claims doc or jk and you are the doc or JK, CC immediately. Getting one scum and losing a doc is almost always worth it.

These rules get a little mixed up during LYLO / MYLO because scum can easily CC doc or jk to get a town member lynched. Just be aware of this.

Mimi F. wrote:If JK claims, doc could protect JK, but if the JK jails the doc then it's rip JK.  Not the most sound strategy.

Well, scum Mafia won't know if JK hits doc, so there's a low chance that both the JK hits doc AND the scum hits JK.

Towa Q. wrote:Doc can be on JK and JK can be on doc if need be. If you're not a VT though, then I don't want to waste a lynch on a town power role. If we're lynching a potential doc or JK, then yes, there is a point to claiming.

That's a dumb strategy to be honest, especially from the JK POV. The JK would basically invalidate us as a town and our advantages with power roles as a whole and therefore ruin our chances further. The WIFOM from the fact of the claim should be enough really to ward this off imo and avoid a kill on them, and doc can choose to protect to enforce this if they want. Also about not wasting a lynch on a town power role, that's a bit self explanatory is it not? Thanks for echoing every strategy ever invented for town in mafia, really needed my 101 lesson.

Anyway, here we go.

lynch Brodie S. since why not

Natasha L. wrote:Hey guys.

I am just warning everyone in advance, there will probably be an in-game day or two in here when I will not be able to be talking in this game. Sorry. I will tell you when this happens.

Also, as for claiming in this setup. The "rules" for claiming in this setup are that if you are getting lynched and you are either doc or JK, claim. If someone claims doc or jk and you are the doc or JK, CC immediately. Getting one scum and losing a doc is almost always worth it.

These rules get a little mixed up during LYLO / MYLO because scum can easily CC doc or jk to get a town member lynched. Just be aware of this.

This is a really good point. I think by midway through the game we'll have some better odds and more reads, especially if we hit a scum relatively early and bring it to 2v8 or 2v9. I don't really have much else to comment on besides whoever said that the claiming VT is useless. If they say no, there's a 40% chance they're the Doc/JK, and the scum'll know immediately that they're the PRs and get them out. However, I think lynching and getting reactions is the best way to go, since lynching a VT is a much higher chance than lynching a PR.

Towa Q. wrote:1 doc, 1 jk, 3 maf, 8 VTs @Nanette B.

If we lynch Day 1, then we have a total of 4 misslynches, assuming maf makes a kill every night. This should be easy, all we have to do is lead a witch-hunt against a VT claim.

So, I'll start with the least QT user. Professor Icarus would you like to claim VT?

cant tell if this is just stupid or scummy. The doc and jk are probably gonna claim vt or they are stupid and claim they arent a villager which reveals to the scum that they should be killed right away.

man you guys are active

Votecount 1.1
******************************
Gurkinn N.(2)- Fernando T., Towa Q.
Brodie S.(1)- Professor Icarus
Fernando T.(0)-
Towa Q.(0)-
Nanette B.(0)-
Haruno H.(0)-
Delilah H.(0)-
Charmaine U.(0)-
Professor Icarus(0)-
Mimi F.(0)-
Annie F.(0)-
Natasha L.(0)-
Ramona G.(0)-
Not Voting(10)- Brodie S., Nanette B., Gurkinn N., Haruno H., Delilah H., Charmaine U., Mimi F., Annie F., Natasha L., Ramona G.
******************************
There are 13 alive so it takes 7 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Friday the 24th at 9am EST.

Why exactly are we lynching Gurkinn N.? I'm not AGAINST IT, but I'm not sure we have enough information currently. I do think lynching today is advantageous, though.

My understanding of it is that this is about claiming VT (which is dumb) and randlynching. For this, Nanette is right. Why are we making people claim VT?

Oh. Speaking of lynching, lynch Towa Q.

for

a) suggesting doc and jk on each other (like seriously, uw0t, that would also suggest them claiming).

b) jumping immediately on the Gurkinn bandwagon for absolutely no resaon

and

c) supporting the VT claim test thing

Let's get the activity up in this thread guys!

Are we still talking about the asking people to claim VT thing? because no matter who you ask, they should be claiming VT. that's common sense.

Mimi F. wrote:If JK claims, doc could protect JK, but if the JK jails the doc then it's rip JK.  Not the most sound strategy.

JK actually can safely claim in this setup, protected by the mere existence of a doctor, a situation so rare and habitually underutilized that I would caution us from immediately classifying it as "scary and very bad" and moving on.
Let's say there was a doctor who could protect herself. The obvious choice is to protect themselves each and every night unless there was for-sure, imminent threat to another less important person. She's more valuable, after all; she should do so for much the same reasons Presidents hide in fallout bunkers during terrorist attacks. So, this comes with the additional benefit of being able to claim, because no way Mafia is dumb enough to target someone who's just going to protect themselves. Of course, WIFOM alert, this makes for an incentive to shift her protect to someone else, just once to be naughty, and see if she can get away with it, because there's a very good chance Mafia doesn't target her that night, having suspected just that very thing. In the end, she and the Mafia replaying their own personal mind games, while the rest of the Town has a much-appreciated leader.
We are in a superlative position than this, even. The JK is guaranteed protection unless he accidentally hits the doctor. He cannot play the mind games himself, and so is protected from temptation. The doctor in this setup is likewise bridled, and less prone to carelessness, because it's Grand Master Leader whose life she holds in her hands rather than just herself, and that just feels particularly... weighty :/
If you think the doctor in scenario one should always self-protect (barring extraordinary circumstances), and I personally do, then the situation we are in comes with only a few differences.
PROS: 1) LEADERSHIP which is awesome so long as the person who's in charge is worthy of it. 2) Temptation for ill-fated trickery on behalf of the protecting roles is diminished greatly.
CONS: 1) When doctor dies, JK dies the night after. Though, in my opinion, better to have loved and lost... 2) JK might hit the doctor, also on the same night Mafia for some reason targets JK, which is incredibly unlikely, but worth mentioning. 3) We're down one protection every night from a possible two, so the possibility of a save is about sort of not really halved. But a successful save only gives us a NL day, and two saves are required for a ML...

Fernando T. wrote:that would be correct.
from what I see from this theme there isnt much that we could really do d1
Lynch Gurkinn N.

Don't randomlynch. It's lazy, and lazy people don't have much of a right to breathe.
(Same for you two fillers up there.)

Towa Q. wrote:If it feels good, do it.
Lynch Gurkinn N.

Are you a VT claim, or other?

1) Bandwagoning on a randomlynch is the most overtly nihilistic thing you could be doing at the moment. Congratulations(!), day one has barely begun, and I don't feel like I can trust you to pull your weight mid/late game now. Consider this a challenge to change my mind.
2) If there ever was an awful claim, it's VT. Literally everybody claims VT in this game except maybe the JK as I've discussed. If JK decides not to claim at all, which is perfectly understandable, then every VT claim makes the Mafia hitting JK slightly more likely. Of course, this holds true if and only if the JK does not claim anything at all themselves. So it's potentially harmful to demand VT claims, and at best useless.
3) Again, the only claim to can or should matter is whether the JK wants to out, which I personally recommend because it would make the game a bit more intriguing than mere Vanilla-where-maybe-a-kill-is-prevented-one-night-so-we-just-talk-and-NL-the-next-day.


To reiterate: JK should make the personal decision to claim if they feel the power of their leadership overwhelms the particular problems outlined above. If you are able and willing to serve in this manner, then the kingdom be thine.

Lynch Towa Q. for bandwagoning on a randomlynch which is baaaad and not at all inviting for good leadersheep.

Annie F. wrote:Are we still talking about the asking people to claim VT thing? because no matter who you ask, they should be claiming VT. that's common sense.

What do you believe, and why do you believe it?
For a VT claim to have meaning, it must mean something. Literally everybody claims VT in this setup, except maybe JK or stupid early fake-claiming mafia.
If you're going to run a test, it has to differentiate between two different possible outcomes. Otherwise it's like saying "I painted the Christmas tree red, and it doesn't clash with the wall, so therefore we ought to legalize cyanide." Whether or not a red Christmas tree actually does or does not clash with the color of the wall has absolutely no bearing on the argument we actually care about.
Same thing with claiming VT. We have no new information, the test tells us nothing. "Annie claimed VT, so therefore she's...?"

Claiming vt does nothing but expose power roles if anything
Towa what the hell was that bandwagon. I random lynch to get some discussion in and you say if it feels good, do it and hop right on it.

Not sure why but Brodie is getting a kinda town lean from me

unlynch Gurkinn lynch Towa