Game 17: Jungle Republic

Victor W. wrote:Don't dodge the question, i'd like a yes or no answer. If no, explain why.

Kiyo H. wrote:

Moe P. wrote:What is this rand lynch city?

Posted at start of day 1 when the only lynches were on zach and from zach
Thats why I think that Moe is Final Mafia.

This leaves 1 ww between Emily and Shingo (I doubt that both) and one between me Kyle and Victor.
Almost everything she says is scummy and she counted the hypos which will only bring one type of info. which is who got "Not WW" on a ww and cant be seer.

Victor W. wrote:

Emily R. wrote:I believe Kyle to be town because suggesting to hypo seems like a townie thing to do.

Some random (keyword: random) things I notice:

Momoko's grandma seems to be Sakie H. from Game 13 iirc
and Victor's background reminds me of Neji's 64 palms jutsu thing

Anyways, I believe I will
Lynch Shingo

Cool, so she random lynches Shingo here, and as I said before, scum like to RL their partners so there isn't much of a bad reaction; however, I was wrong in the only example we have of this in this game (Zachary --> The Hunter)

In contrary to what you said, I believe that most scum prefer to stay away from their partner as much as possible. Thus, I believe that it is as equally important to find out who they don't interact with as much as who they interact with.

Emily R. wrote:I'm really sorry that I did not contribute much during this first day. I have been very busy in real life, and also I really don't know how to start discussion on day 1. Usually when I play mafia, I wait for someone to start a discussion then I contribute with my opinions. As the game progress, there will be more discussions that I can participate in. Also, I am quite a newbie at playing forum mafia so hopefully you guys understand I promise I will contribute more.

Since I do have some free time right now, I will

UL Shingo

because of the lack of reaction to my lynch. (not sure if he missed my lynch or did not care to question why I did so) I do not mind a lynch on Zachary - I was looking back on other forum games and the townie people lynched Day 1 were usually like "Yeah whatever, lynch me idc". Thus, I am not really sure if Zachary is a townie or not.

I don't really know why, but Eliza A. seems a bit scummy from her reactions. Sometimes I don't really know how to convey my feelings, but it's just the tone of the message that leads me to believe so. Of course this depends on the person, so I am fine with you guys not understanding me and needing quotes. Hopefully I can better develop my opinions over the next few days.

I do want to lynch someone in order to get some points, but I really don't know who yet. But since this game has a 50% chance of a scum lynch, I guess I'll

lynch Eliza.

I want to wish Seer the best of luck in finding the werewolves tonight!

Just quoting this because she slightly FOSes Zachary and FOSes Eliza; if she was mafia, she'd have no reason to FOS both her partners D1.

Emily R. wrote:Eliza did not contribute much today, and I don't see why I should not continue my lynch from yesterday.

Lynch Eliza

This may seems like a bandwagon, but I already thought that Eliza was the scummiest yesterday and she has done nothing today that prove to me she is town(ier).

Honestly Otoshi seems a bit scummy too but I just want to see how Eliza would react now with 3 lynch on her

Just continuing up on my point and showing that it makes no sense for Emily to be mafia.

Emily R. wrote:I was really happy when I found out that Eliza was mafia because it seems like every time I lynch I always get villy but when I have a hunch and don't lynch they turn out to be mafia so yayyyyy.

Anyways, I have a slight hunch on Shingo as the WW and I'll explain why in my next post.

Going in on Shingo again.....

Emily R. wrote:

Shingo E. wrote:Well, that kinda sucks. At least we have one person confirmed as not WW, and given the amount of mafia left (ie 1), the chances of him being anything other than a vanilla townie are slim. Of course, WW might always just kill him tonight. :/
We have little to no actual evidence to work with just now, so I'm pretty sure scumhunting is the best way forward right now. It's also a better plan to try and go after the WWs first, I think, since they're more threatening to town just now, and there's still always a chance that WWs might kill the final mafia.
Of course, if it ends up that people have a strong mafia lead and almost no WW lead, then it's still good to get rid of the final mafia, as they will become a threat if left unchecked.

Firstly, I just want to explain that I believe Otoshi to be the mafia, that is why I refer Shingo as the WW.
Anyways, let's begin.

I think this post is pretty much a repeat of obvious stuff or what everyone has said. For example, of course we should scumhunting and someone already mentioned that we should get the WW first. In general, it did not contribute much and the fact that he did not react to my lynch day 1 makes me think it's a little scummy, but of course it is a very light hunch and I will not lynch him just yet.

She's casting some shade on Shingo here, yet she seems to not want to vote him at all. This isn't too relevant yet, but wait till what happens later....

Emily R. wrote:(Please note that this read list maybe completely wrong, but it is an accurate representation of my opinions and in no way should not be fully responsible for the outcome of the lynch/game)

Right now I have:

Shingo as Mafia: Shingo didn't lynch Zachary or Eliza, and also seem, to me at least, to try to stay kinda neutral towards the lynch on Zachary but kinda discouraging it at the same time. He didn't quote any of Zach's posts until the end of day which I think is an attempt to try to earn town's trust since many people questioned him. As for Eliza, he didn't much - not really supporting or discouraging again. He was also my scum read for the first half of day, so I believe he is the mafia.

As for the werewolf, I believe it is a process of elimination. I think Moe and Kyle are clear towns for me. That leaves, Otoshi, Victor, Kiyo, and The Hunter. The reasons I don't think it is The Hunter is that he seems to be oblivious of Eliza and Momoko's death. He may be pretending, but assuming he isn't, if he was ww, he would know that Momoko died. Otoshi is, as everyone said, filler city and I don't know how to feel about it. Victor does contribute quite a lot, but nothing really stands out to me as overly townie. Kiyo posts sporadically and basically is just lynching without much reasoning except for Eliza. For now, I can see a Kiyo/Victor or The Hunter scum team. I am sorry if my werewolf reads are not conclusive, but since none has died it is extremely hard to get a good read.

So this post here is stating that Shingo is a mafia read, and that Otoshi is a possible werewolf? That's a switch from her last contentful post (she had 2-3 posts about how she would make readslists in between those two, but that's not scummy, IRL takes priority over mafia) which I find surprising.

When I do read list, I just go back and look at every post and thus my opinions change quite drastically. I clear my mind, take a look back at every post then reform my opinion.

Emily R. wrote:

Victor W. wrote:Reasoning for linking Kiyo and I together instead of Kiyo and The Hunter / me and the Hunter?

Well I said it could be Kiyo and you or Kiyo and The Hunter. Firstly, I don't think the Hunter is a werewolf. The only reasons I list him there is because Kiyo is acting like he's trying to save The Hunter, which the only logical explanation would be they are mafia. Thus, if The Hunter is werewolf, I believe his partner must be Kiyo. However, Kiyo can be partner with you or The Hunter, if you get what I mean.

Alright, so since The Hunter has been lynched, do you believe the werewolves are definitely me and Kiyo?

Cool, so for Emily's partner:
It's Shingo if Emily was bussing, which is entirely possible since Emily went after Shingo slightly but didn't actually try to hard to get him lynched - something that's the opposite of her lynch on Eliza.
It's Moe if Emily was trying to not interact with her partner at all aside from townreading him.

I believe Kiyo and Kyle are townies for reasons that I can explain if need be, so feel free to ask if you want any clarification.

BTW, this part's directed at the mafia goon: if you're about to be lynched, claim so you don't get lynched and lose the game for both us and you.

Kyle L. wrote:I meant to say softing*

Moe P. wrote:

Victor W. wrote:Don't dodge the question, i'd like a yes or no answer. If no, explain why.

I said in my previous post that I'd like to see more substantial reads from him, and that I did agree with your "attitude" assessment of him.

Emily R. wrote:Personally, I believe Kiyo is the best person to lynch for today. He lynches fast, and easily too. Honestly, I still don't have any clue what he thinks about me. If you look back, he never gave an explanation to why he lynch me. He just said "Hunter is screaming a ton and I can't let him die" or sth and proceeds to lynch me. First of all, that just seems way too scummy because there is nothing to back up that lynch. It just seems like he goes with the flow too easily and even today when Victor explicitly said NO ONE LYNCH UNTIL WE DECIDE he then went on to lynch me and quote my post saying "this is scum" like he is sooooooo sure I'm scum. Yet again, back to my previous point, he never said anything exactly about why I am scum except for things like "Everything she says is scummy" ok.... then explain where would ya

Emily R. wrote:

Victor W. wrote:
Cool, so she random lynches Shingo here, and as I said before, scum like to RL their partners so there isn't much of a bad reaction; however, I was wrong in the only example we have of this in this game (Zachary --> The Hunter)

In contrary to what you said, I believe that most scum prefer to stay away from their partner as much as possible. Thus, I believe that it is as equally important to find out who they don't interact with as much as who they interact with.

Fair enough, but then I stated you're probably aligned with Moe if what you're saying is true, given that there are little to no interactions between you two.

So this post here is stating that Shingo is a mafia read, and that Otoshi is a possible werewolf? That's a switch from her last contentful post (she had 2-3 posts about how she would make readslists in between those two, but that's not scummy, IRL takes priority over mafia) which I find surprising.

When I do read list, I just go back and look at every post and thus my opinions change quite drastically. I clear my mind, take a look back at every post then reform my opinion.

Alright, fair enough.


Alright, so since The Hunter has been lynched, do you believe the werewolves are definitely me and Kiyo?

Victor W. wrote:

Kyle L. wrote:I meant to say softing*

I don't think I was softing either of you two as town, I pretty much explicitly stated that I think you're the other two town left.

Moe P. wrote:

Victor W. wrote:Don't dodge the question, i'd like a yes or no answer. If no, explain why.

I said in my previous post that I'd like to see more substantial reads from him, and that I did agree with your "attitude" assessment of him.

So do you think he's town or not?

Moe P. wrote:

Victor W. wrote:

Kyle L. wrote:I meant to say softing*

I don't think I was softing either of you two as town, I pretty much explicitly stated that I think you're the other two town left.

Moe P. wrote:

Victor W. wrote:Don't dodge the question, i'd like a yes or no answer. If no, explain why.

I said in my previous post that I'd like to see more substantial reads from him, and that I did agree with your "attitude" assessment of him.

So do you think he's town or not?

If you want me to make a decision based solely on how he's played this game, irregardless of his reads, I'd say yes he's town. But, if I were to base it on anything else, I would say he's not towny enough for me.

Victor W. wrote:Actually Moe... do me a favor.
I want you to state who the three scum are from your point of view.
Then, I want you to state why.

Kyle L. wrote:I doubt Emily is mafia, because she was a part of one mafia lynch. But if I'm at a point to trust Victor, then I believe Emily is Werewolf.

This game is just one big roller coaster of emotions

Moe P. wrote:

Victor W. wrote:Actually Moe... do me a favor.
I want you to state who the three scum are from your point of view.
Then, I want you to state why.

Okay, since you keep pressing me to go one way or the other on Kiyo, I'm going to say Kiyo is WW (because its highly unlikely that he's mafia at this point, blah blah blah). The biggest reason I think Kiyo is scum, is his reads, although he's got a pretty good vote record, getting both Zach & Eliza, and not voting on Hunter. He's not been giving much of anything in his posts, he's just said things along the lines of "this is the lynch" and "we're not lynching this guy", rarely giving concrete reasons to why he thinks "this is the lynch", and why "we shouldn't lynch this guy". Sure, Eliza saying she had reads, then failing to deliver is a good enough reason to start the lynch (I already gave him that), but I'm pretty sure the Zach lynch was still random (to start). Likewise, his Hunter "defense", if you can call it that, was just "Hey don't lynch him he's crying town right now", without pointing out what parts of his posts screamed town to him.
tl;dr - I think Kiyo is a WW

That leaves the ww partner + the final mafia straggler.

In the world that Kiyo is WW (which Victor has so kindly forced me on), his partners would most likely be Victor/Shingo (Kyle's posts seem too "emotionally town", and Emily... well, why would you go so hard trying to bus your partner at this stage of the game).
Victor, he's been pushing on me to read Kiyo one way or the other, definitively. While that's not bad, he's just continually pressing the issue, despite me giving my undecided views on the matter, I've more or less agreed that he can't be mafia, and he's been on my ass trying to get me to say that he is or isn't WW for the entire day now. Regardless, Victor can be in any world of WW to me, except the world where Emily is WW, because of what I said previously in regards to Emily + Kiyo. He's been a pretty vocal member of society these past few days (ingame), and trying to rouse the conversation, but it often comes up as "traffic-cop-y" which in my book, depending on how you do it can be scummy.
Shingo... there's literally no connection that Kiyo made with Shingo, and Shingo only made the one read on him earlier and that was that he seemed town, but could also be WW too, lol. Could be that they made it a point to not interact with each other, but now that I think about it, it's a pretty unlikely pairing.

That leaves the final Mafia...

Could be Emily, really. I can see Kiyo trying to get 3/3 Mafia down as WW, therefore winning the game right there. She's still yet to convince me, or anyone I think, that she's town despite the lynch falling on her today.

The problem now is, What's the world where Emily is WW? Well, Kiyo has to be town, but who's her partner? The only one I can see Emily paired with is Shingo (and Kyle, but... you know...), and that's a pretty shaky connection (though they do actually have a connection unlike Kiyo + Shingo). That would also make the final mafia someone like Kyle or Victor lol.

Regardless, this is the world I've been pushed into...
lynch Kiyo

Victor W. wrote:Stop trying to pin things on me, I simply made you actually take a stand on things instead of being wishy-washy on literally everything. You hadn't actually taken a strong opinion (or lynched anyone, I believe) up until now.

Also, you know that Kiyo lynched Zach because of his early paranoia, right? He literally said that. I do agree with your part about The Hunter, though.

...what is "traffic-cop-y"?

Emily can't be a mafia unless she did some extreme bussing. If she's scum, she's ww, and teamed with you or Shingo (or Kyle, but i'm fairly certain he's town).
The point you brought up regarding Shingo and Kiyo actually is very similar to my point about you and Emily - and you parroting my reasoning like that makes me think you're Emily's ww partner over Shingo.
...yet the fact that you were so neutral on the mafia lynches, erm well on lynches in general until you were pushed seems like safe scum play, as in mafia play for this case.

Well, i'm fairly certain you're scum at this point, but I really dont know which.

Moe P. wrote:

Victor W. wrote:Stop trying to pin things on me, I simply made you actually take a stand on things instead of being wishy-washy on literally everything. You hadn't actually taken a strong opinion (or lynched anyone, I believe) up until now.

Also, you know that Kiyo lynched Zach because of his early paranoia, right? He literally said that. I do agree with your part about The Hunter, though.

...what is "traffic-cop-y"?

Emily can't be a mafia unless she did some extreme bussing. If she's scum, she's ww, and teamed with you or Shingo (or Kyle, but i'm fairly certain he's town).
The point you brought up regarding Shingo and Kiyo actually is very similar to my point about you and Emily - and you parroting my reasoning like that makes me think you're Emily's ww partner over Shingo.
...yet the fact that you were so neutral on the mafia lynches, erm well on lynches in general until you were pushed seems like safe scum play, as in mafia play for this case.

Well, i'm fairly certain you're scum at this point, but I really dont know which.

Acting like a traffic cop, dictating what topics are discussed throughout the game, trying to make sure that people actually contribute, pushing on people for stuff, etc.

As for Emily's "extreme" bus-ing, it's not like she voted on Zach, likewise, Eliza was going to die that day no matter what, so may as well put the extra lynch in, though not exactly as last minute as Hunter's late lynch on Zach.

For me taking a stance on Kiyo, how can I not just pin it on you? I've said multiple times that there is a chance that Kiyo is town, by way of his playstyle, but playstyle doesn't mean shit when you don't back up your lynches/defenses on people. Granted, others may pick up on scumtells/reactions based on the lynches that he started, yes. But it's not indicative of his alignment, as he can push onto anyone that isn't his partner, in the case of him being WW, and see what comes of it. Basically, 3 people reacted badly, 2 of those people turned out to be mafia, and one turned out to be town. He started the lynch on the two mafia, and avoided lynching the town in Hunter to try and lynch Emily. Sure that's a pretty town-looking lynch record, but there's still the 3rd faction that you might have to consider.

Also, Kyle, you're pretty much the confirmed non-confirmed town at this point, why don't you see Kiyo as WW