Game 16: Modified Execution

well if we do it like that, if the mafia plays it correctly they can't die. We give a gun to 1 person? it's the mafia, we give it to the other? they're corrupted. We can't just go on like that, it doesn't work.

Well I checked and Kokojo did in fact vote Marina, However aj counted it as a vote for Mary

rip AJ.

Anyway, I'm still wondering about this corrupting. Mafia already corrupted, before we thought of this plan. Why would we need to worry about giving the gun to one of our mafia suspects? This is mostly aimed at Brad P.'s post above Lakoko H.'s

Also, someone had to point out to me "Brad Pit" and "Zack Effron."

ok, so I subbed in for the user that was using this account before and I kind of forgot about this for a fw days so sorry about that. I've read every post so far, so I hope I'll be helpful.

What I want to say first, is that I 100% agree with the idea that we should also say or "pick" who we think should be killed. That way we kind of enforce the Mafia to kill whoever we want, if they end up getting the gun.

Brad P. talked about giving the gun to a scummy user on purpose. Which I think is flawed logic. I mean, yes giving the gun to a scummy person (who we think is mafia), would mean that most chances are that mafia havent corrupted him, but that doesn't mean we should go for it. The mafia are as clueless as we all are, so their only 2 options of corrupting someone were either to corrupt Lakoko cause he is seemingly town (though I will talk about that later in this post) or just choose someone randomly, thinking that we wouldn't give gun again to Lakoko cause we would expect them to corrupt him/her.

As for who I think could be mafia, tbh. I have no legit suspicion on anyone. I just want to say that we shouldn't let our guard down and think Lakoko is 100% confirmed as town. Lakoko and someone else could very well be Mafia that bussed their partner to seem Town like the rest of the game and win it easily. I doubt that's the case, but you never know.

As for now, I kind of suspect Dorian for saying we should shoot an inactive and then taking it back the next post. I can see that being a mafia member being dumb, then his partners shouting at him in PM "hey don't be scummy ffs" and he tries to make up for it next post. Another fos is Vicky or w/e his name is, but I think they could just be dumb or trolling, which is more likely with posts like that. But who knows, it could also very well be a Mafia trying to act dumb so people think "mafia would never be so obviously dumb, probs a bored villy that doesn't know how to play on forums". I mean, I think that's the case but you never know.

So far, I say we kill Dorian, but maybe my opinion will change later during the day.

As for who we give the gun, idk. I'd be fine with any user besides Lakoko (could be corrupted), Dorian (fos on him) and Vicky (overall dumb posts).

Alright. I don't know if I missed something, but pre-shot, I actually didn't see much from Lakoko that made me think she was town (although i've gotta say, her scumhunting was on point). Post-shot, it's almost 99% guaranteed that Lakoko is town, but my view on it is that we shouldn't automatically accept her as town just in case she pulled a ballsy mafia move D1 (which i'm not saying is likely, just saying it's a possibility). Essentially, don't skim over her posts or dismiss anything that you find scummy in them; call her out like you would any other player.

I'll go read back since I missed a lot and see if there's anything else I have to add.

I still want to hear why Zenkiti thought Lakoko was town in the first (second?) post he made.
Zack had a decently large presence day 1, but he hasn't posted yet. Is he trying to lay low because he feels like he might be a target, or does he have other reasons?

I like Mary's thought-out posts, but that doesn't necessarily make me think she's town. I was confused in the post she made above mine because she said she had "no legit suspicion" and proceeded to immediately... bring up suspicions on Dorian and Vicky. It seems kind of contradictory to me.

In terms of the corruption, I agree that we shouldn't give it to Lakoko, but I think we should still give it to someone who we think is townie (since I feel like the mafia would try to push the gun onto someone who they've corrupted, or someone in the group they've corrupted). Unless i missed it in my skimming, nobody has yet suggested this strategy, so I think it's probably safe to do. Just in case i'm wrong though, we shouldn't give the gun to Lakoko.

oh, yea. Me saying I have no legit suspicion and then contradicting it is probably because I am not sure about anything yet since it's so early in the game and we have almost no info and not enough posts by people. My suspicion on Dorian isn't really that strong, I don't think (and I don't really suspect Vicky, I'm pretty sure he's probs just dumb/trolling, I just said it could be a mafia trying to act dumb so we think he's just a townie that doesn't know what he's doing). Anything I said/think right now, could be changed with more posts. But yea, I agree with you that I contradicted myself right there (oops), but can you blame me? Took me ages to think/type that post. Anyway, I also agree that we should give the gun to someone that we think is probs a townie (I think I said that in my previous post too). So far, I gotta say Hinata looks like a townie, I'd be fine with giving her the gun as long as we agree on who to shoot first. Also I think Hinata is kind of a safe bet, she didn't really post much Day 1 so mafia didn't have any reason to go out of their way and corrupt her. I'm almost certain they either corrupted Lakoko or they decided to corrupt someone randomly. Anyway, for now I'll vote Hinata and I'll fos on Dorian.

vote Hinata W.

Mary J. wrote:ok, so I subbed in for the user that was using this account before and I kind of forgot about this for a fw days so sorry about that. I've read every post so far, so I hope I'll be helpful.

What I want to say first, is that I 100% agree with the idea that we should also say or "pick" who we think should be killed. That way we kind of enforce the Mafia to kill whoever we want, if they end up getting the gun.

Brad P. talked about giving the gun to a scummy user on purpose. Which I think is flawed logic. I mean, yes giving the gun to a scummy person (who we think is mafia), would mean that most chances are that mafia havent corrupted him, but that doesn't mean we should go for it. The mafia are as clueless as we all are, so their only 2 options of corrupting someone were either to corrupt Lakoko cause he is seemingly town (though I will talk about that later in this post) or just choose someone randomly, thinking that we wouldn't give gun again to Lakoko cause we would expect them to corrupt him/her.

As for who I think could be mafia, tbh. I have no legit suspicion on anyone. I just want to say that we shouldn't let our guard down and think Lakoko is 100% confirmed as town. Lakoko and someone else could very well be Mafia that bussed their partner to seem Town like the rest of the game and win it easily. I doubt that's the case, but you never know.

As for now, I kind of suspect Dorian for saying we should shoot an inactive and then taking it back the next post. I can see that being a mafia member being dumb, then his partners shouting at him in PM "hey don't be scummy ffs" and he tries to make up for it next post. Another fos is Vicky or w/e his name is, but I think they could just be  dumb or trolling, which is more likely with posts like that. But who knows, it could also very well be a Mafia trying to act dumb so people think "mafia would never be so obviously dumb, probs a bored villy that doesn't know how to play on forums". I mean, I think that's the case but you never know.

So far, I say we kill Dorian, but maybe my opinion will change later during the day.

As for who we give the gun, idk. I'd be fine with any user besides Lakoko (could be corrupted), Dorian (fos on him) and Vicky (overall dumb posts).

most of those things you said are fine by me, I agree on them, except for the part where you said I wanted people to give gun to a scummy person on purpose, you're right, the way you're saying it it's just plain idiocy. I don't know how you ended up thinking I said that, I would never be so stupid. Giving the gun to the person we think is mafia? never. We were discussing about giving the gun to the second most scummy person so they can shoot the most scummy person, though I didn't agree with that because it would make us so easy to read for the mafia. That's what happened.

awesome. my message got deleted.

Mary's explanation is believable, but i'm not sure if that's what actually happened or if she was trying to create a buffer in case an argument broke out/in case her reasoning was major reasoning used to shoot one of the two she discussed.

Reading back on Dorian, his messages that were pointed out by Mary do seem a bit strange, especially considering... he stated that everyone posted when, well, everyone had not. Not sure if that's because he had teammates yelling at him (something I doubt, considering the short time span in between his posts), but if it's not what he stated, it's likely because he himself realized that it was a bad idea and decided to retract his idea to avoid conflict.

There are only 2 Mafia left. If I had to pick, Brad seems the most scummy, but we do have lots of inactives, so I'm gonna check D1 and see who was being scummy there, that will be in my next post, though it's hard to be that scummy D1

Vicky, why do you believe Brad is scummy?

Ok, after having a look I say we vote Brad to get the gun and shoot Zenkiti. Brad won't stop going on about how Lakoko isn't confirmed, almost every post mentions this at some point. Zenkiti has voted for Lakoko on D1 and said he would provide info later, but never did. Busy? Or just have no reason?

So if we followed your plan, we'd be having the scummy person shoot the inactive?
.....i've gotta say I disagree.

I don't think inactivity by itself is scummy. Brad's posts do feel a bit off, and I currently have him on a probable scumlist just because of how much he seems to be fixated on certain points, something that can cause discussion to stagnate. I don't really agree with the read on Zenkiti, although I think his post deeming Lakoko as town was kind of unfounded (and he never explained why >_>)

Brad P. wrote:
most of those things you said are fine by me, I agree on them, except for the part where you said I wanted people to give gun to a scummy person on purpose, you're right, the way you're saying it it's just plain idiocy. I don't know how you ended up thinking I said that, I would never be so stupid. Giving the gun to the person we think is mafia? never. We were discussing about giving the gun to the second most scummy person so they can shoot the most scummy person, though I didn't agree with that because it would make us so easy to read for the mafia. That's what happened.

oh sorry, my bad. It wasn't you who said it, but Lakoko and you just commented on it. Yea, that idea sounds dumb to me. Like, yea giving gun to someone and saying who we want him to shoot is a great strategy, but giving gun to a scummy person ON PURPOSE is idiotic. If we do end up giving gun to mafia, then so be it... we'd still have told him who to shoot, but giving it to a scummy person on purpose is a no for me.

Also, since I checked back to those statements.

Lakoko H. wrote:Well an idea that I've had for decided who will shoot is taking the scummiest 2, and make one shoot the other. that way even if maf gets gun they will be forced to shoot whoever we tell them to or they die the next day.

Dorian B. wrote:That's not necessarily bad though, just because the person that we suspected would be scum will die and thus we cleared another mafia suspect. Thus, I agree with the whole scummy shoot scummy thing we just need to agree on who we think is the scummiest and should be nominated. If everyone could say who we should give the gun to and who we should shoot it will be helpful for scumhunting in the future.

What I'm getting from this is, you guys asking us to give gun to a scummy person so he shoots another scummy person? That. makes. no. sense. What if we end up giving gun to mafia but the person we told him to shoot ended up not being mafia. Lakoko suggesting it, is kind of weird, but doesn't really make her scummy because it was just an idea she had without thinking twice about it (still have your eyes open in case she actually is mafia). But Dorian, seems scummy af with that post + the 2 posts I noticed day 1. Like seriously, the way he posted about supporting Lakoko's suggestion makes me even more suspicious than I was before. I'll still keep my vote on Hinata cause she seems like Town to me, and still fos on Dorian. But I'd like more posts/activity by everyone, come on guys.

I don't think Mary's suspicion on me is justified.

1) It would be impossible for "my mafia partner" to pm me and take it back because the posts were posted back to back. Moreover, if you look at the content of my second post, it said "everyone has posted" which is true, since everyone has posted something prior to the post (the confirmation posts count). Moreover, you did not explain why it is necessarily bad to shoot an inactive but rather focus on the fact that I took it back.

2) I still don't understand how supporting Lakoko's suggestion makes me scummy. You did not find Lakoko scummy for suggesting it but you find me scummy... for what reason? I don't clearly understand why you think that post is scummy. Also, I think the point is scummy shoot scummy is to avoid corruption so that even though the person we gave the gun to is corrupted, at least the scummy player die.

That is how I see it anyways. The mafia might try to "influence" us to vote someone they have corrupted by placing sporadic votes on the target hoping we follow. Therefore, I will save my vote for now.

I found your post and the way you talked about it scummy, Lakoko's post seemed more of a suggestion that she didn't think about thoroughly, at least in my eyes. Also I said, I already had suspicion on you from your posts day 1 and now that post made me suspect you even more. I kind of get your (and Lakoko's) point now though, going for who we think could be scummy to avoid corruption. I still don't agree with this strategy though, I'm pretty sure Mafia either corrupted Lakoko or someone random (cause from day 1, litterally no one said anything that could make them a target). So if they went for someone random, they may try to make us vote for them, yea. So far I'm the only one that voted though (Hinata), you could think I'm Mafia for jumping on a vote so early trying to make Town vote the one I corrupted. And tbh, that would be a legit concern. But no, I'm not mafia, and as I said, I really don't care who we give the gun to as far as we agree on who the gunner should kill. But yea, we need more posts/input from everyone. Haven't heard anything from users like Zack and Zenkiti since Day 2 started, so guys post please.

I did think about my suggestion and I still stand by it.
My idea was just for the today since maf can play accordingly if we make our choices predictable and I think that if we pick someone that we suspected yesterday to shoot someone of our choice it will negate the corruption factor for today.

And I honestly doubt that if we pick scum to shoot he will rebel and shoot someone else because he will be confirming himself as maf and taking only one townie with him and with nobody being confirmed and no PRs, its basically suicide. If the shooter rebels it can possibly reveal the one that he refused to shoot as his partner because zi find no reason for a mafia to suicide and take a townie with him instead of shooting a townie without getting any additional suspicion in the process.

Votecount 2.1
******************************
Hinata W.(1)- Mary J.
Lakoko H.(0)-
Zack E.(0)-
Brad P.(0)-
Mary J.(0)-
Kimimaro D.(0)-
Zenkiti G.(0)-
Marina U.(0)-
Dorian B.(0)-
Vicky T.(0)-
Not Voting(9)- Brad P., Dorian B., Vicky T., Marina U., Zack E., Zenkiti G., Kimimaro D., Lakoko H., Hinata W.
******************************
There are 10 alive so it takes 6 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Sunday the 5th at 9am EST.
If the deadline was now, Hinata W. would receive the gun.

Holy shit I need punctuation

Lakoko H. wrote:I did think about my suggestion and I still stand by it.
My idea was just for the today since maf can play accordingly if we make our choices predictable and I think that if we pick someone that we suspected yesterday to shoot someone of our choice it will negate the corruption factor for today.

And I honestly doubt that if we pick scum to shoot he will rebel and shoot someone else because he will be confirming himself as maf and taking only one townie with him and with nobody being confirmed and no PRs, its basically suicide. If the shooter rebels it can possibly reveal the one that he refused to shoot as his partner because zi find no reason for a mafia to suicide and take a townie with him instead of shooting a townie without getting any additional suspicion in the process.

That's all good on paper, but I still think we shouldn't go for it. You are ignoring one thing, and that is if we give gun to a person we think is scum, then the chances of the one we shoot to be scum are lowered. Like there are only 2 scum in the game left. If we pick 1 to give the gun to, and he turns out to actually be scum, then the one we shoot has way less chances of being scum. It's better to give the gun to someone we think is town and hope he didn't get corrupted (and as I said twice already, either you got corrupted or someone random... not much really happened Day 1 to make mafia think someone other than you should be targeted). It's better odds to hope that we're shooting 1 out of 2 mafia, than giving the gun to 1 of them and hoping to shoot the other.

How did you guys post ~12 messages in the time between my last message and now? I went to sleep yesterday with no new messages._.
Okay, so first off, I don't like all this "You're scummy for saying Lakoko H. Isn't cleared." We all know how bussing works. Of course, it's a very slim chance that Lakoko bussed Kokojo, but it is still a possibility. We don't have an easy way to scumhunt, though.

Second, I'm thinking the "give gun to a scummy person" is a neutral idea.
Pros: They probably aren't corrupted, and they have to shoot whoever we pick.
Con: It could possibly "clear" the person in some peoples' minds? "Oh, they shot mafia! They're somewhat clear!"

I think we should all post who we think is clear/semi clear/semi unclear/unclear. Who do we see as pro town? Who seems like mafia? Why? It can't hurt.

Who should we give the gun to? The chances of both our person with the gun and person to be shot being scum is so small... I don't think we should go with it. Giving our scum read only diminishes the chances of the gun going to a corrupted person, which is already very low. A trusted townie is probably a better idea, however, I'm not opposed to either.

Sorry if I contradicted myself in this post, trying to play a few games while reading/writing this.

Vicky T. wrote:Ok, after having a look I say we vote Brad to get the gun and shoot Zenkiti. Brad won't stop going on about how Lakoko isn't confirmed, almost every post mentions this at some point. Zenkiti has voted for Lakoko on D1 and said he would provide info later, but never did. Busy? Or just have no reason?

Well I have noticed that too often while playing a game of mafia people do not notice something unless you say it 5 times, I've mentioned it a few times day 1 where someone wouldn't be cleared if they shot mafia, now I've mentioned it once or twice with lakoko. I don't see the problem. I simply don't. What's so bad about making sure everybody knows they should be wary about it?

I'll get a list of who to give gun, who I think is scum etc. later*insert tm sign here*, I will get to it, I just don't have time right now.

As for the last thing I have to say for now, I find it somewhat odd how lakoko said they'd say who they'd shoot later, but never did. It was obvious he was going to get the gun, and from there he simply forgot? or maybe it's something else, maybe they didn't want to get pinned down on something, didn't want to have people disagreeing on the shot, so they could maybe make a ballsy play? something along the lines of shooting a mafia partner? Of course this is only speculation, it's just a thought that came up in my mind thinking about voting for who gets shot.

Brad. I said that I will shoot kokojo

And BTW Brad's determination for taking me down insufferable.
Even before I shot he made it clear that he thinks I'm maf without any reasoning and he even tried to put the 2 who voted me and I as a (insert about 5 possibles here) scum team