Game 14: Protect Wisely!

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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by ajhockeystar on Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:06 pm

Votecount 1.1
******************************

Koji I.(1)- Satoru S.
Dayton B.(1)- Willhiema L.
Willhiema L.(0)-
Himashi G.(0)-
Misawo M.(0)-
Sunreeser(0)-
Rossi U.(0)-
Terri E.(0)-
Toby J.(0)-
Azumi A.(0)-
Kimyo N.(0)-
Satoru S.(0)-
Not Voting(10)- Himashi G., Misawo M., Sunreeser, Rossi U., Terri E., Toby J., Koji I., Dayton B., Azumi A., Kimyo N.
******************************
There are 12 alive so it takes 7 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Sundat the 25th at 9pm EST.

If the deadline was now, Koji I. would be lynched.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Terri E. on Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:47 pm

Willhiema L. wrote:
Sunreeser wrote:Hello all!

Even though the game may start out a bit slow, we might increase in activity as we progressed, similar to game 12. Smile

Yes, I agree that we should not lynch inactive this game because as past experiences say, it usually does not work. I don't think we need to be afraid about the mafia doing this because during end game the line between lurking and inactive becoming more obvious and people are still being subbed this early.

For now outlooks are still unclear so I'll hold my lynch for now. Don't think we are gaining anything by rling on simple tiny things. Will check back often to check on progress tho!

(Btw Willhiema, it's dayton not dayota)

1.) Yes, while this can happen and I am hoping that to happen, I don't want to depend on stuff, I'd rather prepare for the worst case scenario that beg for activeness. The problem is how are we gonna do that.

2.) I forgot to mention that since nightkills are a thing, its gonna be harder for mafia to lurk. Also there is the Members tab which uncovers lurkers so if mafia do lurk then its serious trouble for them.

3.) RLing actually works tho..... it spurs discussion, even if its just a bit more, every little helps (#tesco)

4.) Sorry dayton :]

Adding on to what you said here, RLing helps get some discussion going so for that reason I'm going to Lynch Toby J.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Dayton B. on Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:53 pm

Willhiema L. wrote:
Kimyo N. wrote:
Toby J. wrote:Alright, Pretty sure this will be the dead game this time
Anyway, Hello everyone.
Well then, let's make it not the dead game.
I believe that this is much easier said than done. This game, despite being the very first day, is already on the wrong track in terms of inactiveness. 

I want to make a few points clear. Since this game isnt gonna be the most active, we are not gonna be lynching inactives because of logic like "inactive = useless, useless = getting lynched" coz thats just ridiculous. If you think someone needs to be lynched then you need to supply good evidence and question him. If they are inactive then its a waiting game until something happens where lynching inactives is a good idea. But that definitely isnt a good idea at the start of the game.  Now my only fear here is that mafia change their style of play to "be inactive and hope to win" but the good thing is, its obvious when mafia do it.
To be honest lynching inactive isn't the worse thing since you still get info from them and from a slow moving game that info can help a lot.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Dayton B. on Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:06 pm

Willhiema L. wrote:
Himashi G. wrote:Confirming useless role.
Willhiema L. wrote:
Kimyo N. wrote:
Toby J. wrote:Alright, Pretty sure this will be the dead game this time
Anyway, Hello everyone.
Well then, let's make it not the dead game.
I believe that this is much easier said than done. This game, despite being the very first day, is already on the wrong track in terms of inactiveness. 

I want to make a few points clear. Since this game isnt gonna be the most active, we are not gonna be lynching inactives because of logic like "inactive = useless, useless = getting lynched" coz thats just ridiculous. If you think someone needs to be lynched then you need to supply good evidence and question him. If they are inactive then its a waiting game until something happens where lynching inactives is a good idea. But that definitely isnt a good idea at the start of the game.  Now my only fear here is that mafia change their style of play to "be inactive and hope to win" but the good thing is, its obvious when mafia do it.
Then the Mafia becomes super lurky under the guise of inactive=/=scummy. While your main point is valid, it's best to allow people to believe that inactive=scummy to force them to post more. It's constructive withholding of the truth.

While this is true, lurking only hurts mafia as I explained before. But i guess that works. The reason why I am afraid of carrying the concept of inactive = scummy is because I dont want mafia to jump on an inactive and say "he is scum" which is generally what they will do.
You do know if mafia jumped on a BW like that they'd be the worse players in history of mafia, like odm level of bad.
Also himashi Pressuring an inactive player usually does very little since they will most likely continue lurking which means the game will become mostly filler.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Willhiema L. on Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:33 am

Dayton B. wrote:
Willhiema L. wrote:
Kimyo N. wrote:
Toby J. wrote:Alright, Pretty sure this will be the dead game this time
Anyway, Hello everyone.
Well then, let's make it not the dead game.
I believe that this is much easier said than done. This game, despite being the very first day, is already on the wrong track in terms of inactiveness. 

I want to make a few points clear. Since this game isnt gonna be the most active, we are not gonna be lynching inactives because of logic like "inactive = useless, useless = getting lynched" coz thats just ridiculous. If you think someone needs to be lynched then you need to supply good evidence and question him. If they are inactive then its a waiting game until something happens where lynching inactives is a good idea. But that definitely isnt a good idea at the start of the game.  Now my only fear here is that mafia change their style of play to "be inactive and hope to win" but the good thing is, its obvious when mafia do it.
To be honest lynching inactive isn't the worse thing since you still get info from them and from a slow moving game that info can help a lot.
You mean a mislynch so that their role is flipped? Thats a bit too risky. Ok maybe 1 inactive gets lynched but no more than 1 unless they are scummy too.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Willhiema L. on Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:37 am

ajhockeystar wrote:Votecount 1.1
******************************

Koji I.(1)- Satoru S.
Dayton B.(1)- Willhiema L.
Willhiema L.(0)-
Himashi G.(0)-
Misawo M.(0)-
Sunreeser(0)-
Rossi U.(0)-
Terri E.(0)-
Toby J.(0)-
Azumi A.(0)-
Kimyo N.(0)-
Satoru S.(0)-
Not Voting(10)- Himashi G., Misawo M., Sunreeser, Rossi U., Terri E., Toby J., Koji I., Dayton B., Azumi A., Kimyo N.
******************************
There are 12 alive so it takes 7 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Sundat the 25th at 9pm EST.

If the deadline was now, Koji I. would be lynched.
Deadline is in Sundat huh? Thats some nice spelling AJ lol
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Willhiema L. on Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:39 am

Dayton B. wrote:
Willhiema L. wrote:
Himashi G. wrote:Confirming useless role.
Willhiema L. wrote:
Kimyo N. wrote:
Toby J. wrote:Alright, Pretty sure this will be the dead game this time
Anyway, Hello everyone.
Well then, let's make it not the dead game.
I believe that this is much easier said than done. This game, despite being the very first day, is already on the wrong track in terms of inactiveness. 

I want to make a few points clear. Since this game isnt gonna be the most active, we are not gonna be lynching inactives because of logic like "inactive = useless, useless = getting lynched" coz thats just ridiculous. If you think someone needs to be lynched then you need to supply good evidence and question him. If they are inactive then its a waiting game until something happens where lynching inactives is a good idea. But that definitely isnt a good idea at the start of the game.  Now my only fear here is that mafia change their style of play to "be inactive and hope to win" but the good thing is, its obvious when mafia do it.
Then the Mafia becomes super lurky under the guise of inactive=/=scummy. While your main point is valid, it's best to allow people to believe that inactive=scummy to force them to post more. It's constructive withholding of the truth.

While this is true, lurking only hurts mafia as I explained before. But i guess that works. The reason why I am afraid of carrying the concept of inactive = scummy is because I dont want mafia to jump on an inactive and say "he is scum" which is generally what they will do.
You do know if mafia jumped on a BW like that they'd be the worse players in history of mafia, like odm level of bad.
Also himashi Pressuring an inactive player usually does very little since they will most likely continue lurking which means the game will become mostly filler.
Dude, you realise game 12 won because of lynches like that right? And ODM was the one doing it, he got the most points in the game plus MVP, so how is this a bad strat for mafia?
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Willhiema L. on Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:40 am

Btw, i saw koji online yesterday but he never posted anything despite being lynched....wtf?
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Misawo M. on Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:24 am

Hi, my schedule is still quite busy, but I should be on at least once per day.

vote Terri E.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Misawo M. on Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:26 am

also don't bother lynching inactives, just wait until they sub out. Game 12 was disgusting
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Azumi A. on Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:21 am

Willhiema L. wrote:
Dayton B. wrote:
Willhiema L. wrote:
Himashi G. wrote:Confirming useless role.
Willhiema L. wrote:
Kimyo N. wrote:
Toby J. wrote:Alright, Pretty sure this will be the dead game this time
Anyway, Hello everyone.
Well then, let's make it not the dead game.
I believe that this is much easier said than done. This game, despite being the very first day, is already on the wrong track in terms of inactiveness. 

I want to make a few points clear. Since this game isnt gonna be the most active, we are not gonna be lynching inactives because of logic like "inactive = useless, useless = getting lynched" coz thats just ridiculous. If you think someone needs to be lynched then you need to supply good evidence and question him. If they are inactive then its a waiting game until something happens where lynching inactives is a good idea. But that definitely isnt a good idea at the start of the game.  Now my only fear here is that mafia change their style of play to "be inactive and hope to win" but the good thing is, its obvious when mafia do it.
Then the Mafia becomes super lurky under the guise of inactive=/=scummy. While your main point is valid, it's best to allow people to believe that inactive=scummy to force them to post more. It's constructive withholding of the truth.

While this is true, lurking only hurts mafia as I explained before. But i guess that works. The reason why I am afraid of carrying the concept of inactive = scummy is because I dont want mafia to jump on an inactive and say "he is scum" which is generally what they will do.
You do know if mafia jumped on a BW like that they'd be the worse players in history of mafia, like odm level of bad.
Also himashi Pressuring an inactive player usually does very little since they will most likely continue lurking which means the game will become mostly filler.
Dude, you realise game 12 won because of lynches like that right? And ODM was the one doing it, he got the most points in the game plus MVP, so how is this a bad strat for mafia?

The reason that wont happen again is because this time people will be aware of that kind of shit, even ODM wouldn't try that again if he was mafia again. He isn't that stupid. And I hope you realize that town isn't full of idiots. The odds that the smart people are at the town are pretty big in fact, while nothing is sure of course, as the odds that 1 smart person is mafia are quite high too.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Kimyo N. on Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:31 pm

Willhiema L. wrote:
Kimyo N. wrote:
Toby J. wrote:Alright, Pretty sure this will be the dead game this time
Anyway, Hello everyone.
Well then, let's make it not the dead game.
I believe that this is much easier said than done. This game, despite being the very first day, is already on the wrong track in terms of inactiveness. 

I want to make a few points clear. Since this game isnt gonna be the most active, we are not gonna be lynching inactives because of logic like "inactive = useless, useless = getting lynched" coz thats just ridiculous. If you think someone needs to be lynched then you need to supply good evidence and question him. If they are inactive then its a waiting game until something happens where lynching inactives is a good idea. But that definitely isnt a good idea at the start of the game.  Now my only fear here is that mafia change their style of play to "be inactive and hope to win" but the good thing is, its obvious when mafia do it.

Of course, we're just gonna hav to take a closer look at people and hope that our analyses are on point this game. Imo, it is a good thing to look at our inactives a bit, but perhaps we should not dwell on them. I think we'd we'd get to caught up and start focusing on them like in some past games i've seen people do such as chigusa in game 8 or 9 with jimmy, who ended up town.

We just gotta get a streak going and hope for activity i guess.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Koji I. on Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:28 pm

sure are lots of mentions of ODM in this game...
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Sunreeser on Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:53 pm

Koji, do you have anything to say about the fact that if votes stay the same, you will be lynch? Anything to defend yourself?

Your previous post is a filler more than anything, and does not contribute to town.

Therefore, I will place my lynch on Koji.

Lynch Koji

If you say anything convincing, then I will unlynch you.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Koji I. on Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:15 pm

honestly, I got nothing that could possibly be seen as convincing. it's pretty much impossible to have anything like that at this stage.
the only reason I had the filler post was so I wasn't seen as "lurking". glad that worked.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Willhiema L. on Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:06 pm

Azumi A. wrote:
Willhiema L. wrote:
Dayton B. wrote:
Willhiema L. wrote:
Himashi G. wrote:Confirming useless role.
Willhiema L. wrote:
Kimyo N. wrote:
Toby J. wrote:Alright, Pretty sure this will be the dead game this time
Anyway, Hello everyone.
Well then, let's make it not the dead game.
I believe that this is much easier said than done. This game, despite being the very first day, is already on the wrong track in terms of inactiveness. 

I want to make a few points clear. Since this game isnt gonna be the most active, we are not gonna be lynching inactives because of logic like "inactive = useless, useless = getting lynched" coz thats just ridiculous. If you think someone needs to be lynched then you need to supply good evidence and question him. If they are inactive then its a waiting game until something happens where lynching inactives is a good idea. But that definitely isnt a good idea at the start of the game.  Now my only fear here is that mafia change their style of play to "be inactive and hope to win" but the good thing is, its obvious when mafia do it.
Then the Mafia becomes super lurky under the guise of inactive=/=scummy. While your main point is valid, it's best to allow people to believe that inactive=scummy to force them to post more. It's constructive withholding of the truth.

While this is true, lurking only hurts mafia as I explained before. But i guess that works. The reason why I am afraid of carrying the concept of inactive = scummy is because I dont want mafia to jump on an inactive and say "he is scum" which is generally what they will do.
You do know if mafia jumped on a BW like that they'd be the worse players in history of mafia, like odm level of bad.
Also himashi Pressuring an inactive player usually does very little since they will most likely continue lurking which means the game will become mostly filler.
Dude, you realise game 12 won because of lynches like that right? And ODM was the one doing it, he got the most points in the game plus MVP, so how is this a bad strat for mafia?

The reason that wont happen again is because this time people will be aware of that kind of shit, even ODM wouldn't try that again if he was mafia again. He isn't that stupid. And I hope you realize that town isn't full of idiots. The odds that the smart people are at the town are pretty big in fact, while nothing is sure of course, as the odds that 1 smart person is mafia are quite high too.

I disagree. Mafia will try to pull of something under our noses. Remember that although town can be "smart" (which is sometimes a rare case....lets be honest, sorry about being rude) its not gonna be blatantly obvious that, if someone lets say does do that, that it is scummy. Maybe they play around with how they do it? Like ODM in game 12 just straight up lynched people who were inactive which I admit is gonna be a little stupid now since everyone is aware. But now they might change how they will do it. We cant be certain that everytime they will do something like that we can scumbust them.

Also here is something to think about, if we didnt bring this up, would you have still been aware about this tactic? Lets say you have, but aren't you more aware than you are before about all the shenanigans that mafia could do to pull this up? (What I am trying to say is that discussion helps).
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Willhiema L. on Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:09 pm

Koji I. wrote:honestly, I got nothing that could possibly be seen as convincing. it's pretty much impossible to have anything like that at this stage.
the only reason I had the filler post was so I wasn't seen as "lurking". glad that worked.

Even tho lurking is bad, posting something that doesnt help town and then not posting legit afterwards or beforehand is just as bad. It's like saying that, "I dont want to jump off a cliff coz its too risky, I am gonna get hit by a car instead". Both situations get you in the same position.

So please, post your thoughts that actually contribute to town because as I said, discussion helps...
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Satoru S. on Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:58 pm

Well my lynch on Kinjo got no reaction whatsoever which ik was random lynch but was hoping for something atleast. Also we need to discuss not bout scum first but about the mechanic of the game, this would be the doc protects.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Willhiema L. on Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:25 am

Satoru S. wrote:Well my lynch on Kinjo got no reaction whatsoever which ik was random lynch but was hoping for something atleast. Also we need to discuss not bout scum first but about the mechanic of the game, this would be the doc protects.
We do? Well you are only allowed to protect twice....once urself and once someone else...

I have an idea, how about after every night the people who protected say if they did or not, but not reveal who they protected. This will create a mini list on the potential confo docs. Of course i am aware that mafia will try to fake being a doc and say "I used my protection!" Which i guess is a bit of a flaw which i dont quite know how to cleanly solve. But maybe the plan could get us closer to the truth?

In fact we could reveal who we protected because 1.) Its gonna be a bit like dethy but much more vague. 2.) Someone can protect him accordingly on what way he protected.

 I do want to here everyones thoughts about this. I am not sure if this might work so i want a collective mind into this than my NFE mind. In fact we can make an entirely new plan and scratch this one lol (but with good reason) .
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Willhiema L. on Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:27 am

Satoru S. wrote:Well my lynch on Kinjo got no reaction whatsoever which ik was random lynch but was hoping for something atleast. Also we need to discuss not bout scum first but about the mechanic of the game, this would be the doc protects.
Also i believe your lynch did reveal a scummy atribute to Koji so far... but then again it might be a bit too early to decide? Not sure.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by ajhockeystar on Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:54 am

Votecount 1.2
******************************

Koji I.(2)- Satoru S., Sunreeser
Dayton B.(1)- Willhiema L.
Toby J.(1)- Terri E.
Terri E.(1)- Misawo M.
Willhiema L.(0)-
Himashi G.(0)-
Misawo M.(0)-
Sunreeser(0)-
Rossi U.(0)-
Azumi A.(0)-
Kimyo N.(0)-
Satoru S.(0)-
Not Voting(7)- Himashi G., Rossi U., Toby J., Koji I., Dayton B., Azumi A., Kimyo N.
******************************
There are 12 alive so it takes 7 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Sunday the 25th at 9pm EST.

If the deadline was now, Koji I. would be lynched.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Azumi A. on Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:45 am

Willhiema L. wrote:
Satoru S. wrote:Well my lynch on Kinjo got no reaction whatsoever which ik was random lynch but was hoping for something atleast. Also we need to discuss not bout scum first but about the mechanic of the game, this would be the doc protects.
We do? Well you are only allowed to protect twice....once urself and once someone else...

I have an idea, how about after every night the people who protected say if they did or not, but not reveal who they protected. This will create a mini list on the potential confo docs. Of course i am aware that mafia will try to fake being a doc and say "I used my protection!" Which i guess is a bit of a flaw which i dont quite know how to cleanly solve. But maybe the plan could get us closer to the truth?

In fact we could reveal who we protected because 1.) Its gonna be a bit like dethy but much more vague. 2.) Someone can protect him accordingly on what way he protected.

 I do want to here everyones thoughts about this. I am not sure if this might work so i want a collective mind into this than my NFE mind. In fact we can make an entirely new plan and scratch this one lol (but with good reason) .

I feel that while the idea is pretty good, it's VERY flawed, as if someone somehow manages to pull off a protection that saves someone it gives 1 problem, though that problem is big enough to make it a small advantage only, and you have already said it. Mafia fakeclaims. Say I would protect someone night 1 and no one gets killed, no one claims to have protected except for me, wouldn't that be scummy? Only 1 person protected and somehow protected the right person... at night 1? In that case suspicion would be on me while I could very well have actually just been really lucky with my protection, or maybe the mafia decided to not kill and see what would happen, see if they could blow some protections and inspections. Which brings me to the next point.

We could use our protections as vague inspections. Say someone dies night 1 and 1 of us protected for example sunreeser, then he isn't cleared, and in the same situation if no one dies then sunreeser would be a bit more clean. Though of course as I'm saying this the mafia is reading it too so they'll be thinking about tactics on that too... (I said sunreeser because that's the only name I can spell from memory)
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Sunreeser on Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:56 am

Georgio F. wrote:When people don't respond at all to a lynch I wouldn't necessarily say that's scummy...

I agree that just because one doesn't respond to a lynch doesn't mean he is scummy. However, it's not just A lynch, he's ABOUT to be lynch so even though he cannot really prove himself, consistent activity and commenting on other posts and saying what he thinks are good-enough reasons early game to convince me that he shouldn't be lynch. I know your message is supposed to be for Willheimer, but I just want to say my thoughts.

Also Azumi, yeah my name is quite unique lol. Doesn't really follow the typical name and last name initial, but the gligarman in game 13 is still way cooler.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Sunreeser on Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:01 am

Also I'm not sure if we should discuss our protects strategy out loud. It is easier for mafia to adapt to the situation if we have something planned out, which could prove to be worse for us.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Willhiema L. on Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:19 am

Georgio F. wrote:When people don't respond at all to a lynch I wouldn't necessarily say that's scummy...
Posting filler without anything good afterwards or beforehand is scummy.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

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