Re: Game 11: Vengeful Mafia Mafia

by Sukisoh S. Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:47 am

Also, do we have a list of possible scum teams? If we could see if anybody tried to distance themselves after being called a possible scumteam, they are most likely scum.

by Mickey L. Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:02 am

I think the only one suggested was me+Butler.
I also believe I mentioned Rochelle as being in a scumteam with someone else, but I don't remember who : /

by Mickey L. Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:08 am

Sukisoh S. wrote:
Not too helpful... Why didn't I lynch;
Cassandra? No way would a scum act that way. I thought that Cassandra lynching to save herself was a towny act. In fact, if I wanted to win, why don't I join? Free kill for mafia since they know who isn't mafia, right? You guys DID think Cassandra was scum, so NOT joining in the lynch hurts me, especially if I was scum.

How so? It was fairly obvious that Cassandra would be lynched at that point, so you joining in (or not doing so) didn't really affect you in any way.

Andreas? Well, why didn't you either? If I wanted to save Andreas, I would have lynched Gizelle, right? What would happen afterwards? Gizelle would flip town, and me and Andreas would become an instant scum team.

I did. (Joke here, I know this doesn't refer to me.) Ignoring that, what you've said makes sense.

--
I have 2 lynch counts on me. Can't exactly do anything direct to it, so here is me trying to convince you guys. If you look back on day 1's lynch and day 3's lynch, you will see 2 things in common. The people who lynched Cassandra, are: Butler, Makino, Gizelle. The people who lynched Gizelle, are: Trinity M., Makino C., Rochelle R., Butler P., Gizelle V. (And me since I wanted to lynch Gizelle). The two people in common are Butler and Makino. Call this OMGUS, but I currently believe Butler is scum.

Mickey has placed a lynch on Gizelle on Day 2, but then didn't join the bandwagon on Gizelle on day 3. I can't remember if she had any change of arguments on why not to lynch Gizelle though, so it might not mean much.
I believe I brought up why; I was also fairly inactive near the end of Day 2 and wouldn't have been able to place a lynch even if I wanted to.
Lynch Butler.
OH NOES OMGUS, LYNCH SUKISOH QUICK
--
I was planning to lynch Kaito, but if Kaito is inactive, we might as well just let an inactive mafia go rather than an (In my opinion,) active scum stay.

Why did you lynch Butler instead of Makino? What makes you think of Butler as scummier than Makino?

by Mickey L. Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:13 am

I'm going to unlynch:Sukisoh for now. His response seemed townlike to me, other than the couple things I pointed out.

by Sukisoh S. Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:11 am

Mickey L. wrote:Why did you lynch Butler instead of Makino? What makes you think of Butler as scummier than Makino?

He has acted more scummy (at least, in my opinion), than Makino over the course of the game. Either that, or he is aggressive/intimidating. (And I'll admit, its kinda because he lynched me.)

--
About Cassandra's lynch, I wouldn't say that Cassandra having just one more lynch then Makino is really too much a difference. IMO, if you agree with town on a person being scummy, you can gain their trust for a period of time (usually until people accuse of bandwagoning few days later).

But yeah, I kinda exaggerated. It wouldn't hurt me, but it wouldn't help me either (as in the case now, apparently I'm scummy for not lynching).

by Makino C. Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:38 am

Sukisoh S. wrote:Geez, I forgot about this again ._.
Oh look, I have 2 lynch counts on me now :O
--
Why I didn't lynch?
Sukisoh S. wrote:To be honest, I really can't tell who is scum. Maybe its my skewed vision where I see everybody as town. So far, my only reason for wanting to lynch Gizelle is only a policy lynch.

Excuse? Yes. I am scum? No, but its what you see of me. First of all, why didn't I lynch ANY of the people who have been lynched?

Sukisoh S. wrote:To be honest, I really can't tell who is scum. Maybe its my skewed vision where I see everybody as town. So far, my only reason for wanting to lynch Gizelle is only a policy lynch.

Not too helpful... Why didn't I lynch;
Cassandra? No way would a scum act that way. I thought that Cassandra lynching to save herself was a towny act. In fact, if I wanted to win, why don't I join? Free kill for mafia since they know who isn't mafia, right? You guys DID think Cassandra was scum, so NOT joining in the lynch hurts me, especially if I was scum.

Andreas? Well, why didn't you either? If I wanted to save Andreas, I would have lynched Gizelle, right? What would happen afterwards? Gizelle would flip town, and me and Andreas would become an instant scum team.

Gizelle? This is the one where I would admit that I didn't lynch for no strong reason. IIRC, Trinity wanted to test something out and requested nobody else lynch Gizelle. I kept my lynch to myself, but in the end she didn't say when her test was done.
--
I have 2 lynch counts on me. Can't exactly do anything direct to it, so here is me trying to convince you guys. If you look back on day 1's lynch and day 3's lynch, you will see 2 things in common. The people who lynched Cassandra, are: Butler, Makino, Gizelle. The people who lynched Gizelle, are: Trinity M., Makino C., Rochelle R., Butler P., Gizelle V. (And me since I wanted to lynch Gizelle). The two people in common are Butler and Makino. Call this OMGUS, but I currently believe Butler is scum.

Mickey has placed a lynch on Gizelle on Day 2, but then didn't join the bandwagon on Gizelle on day 3. I can't remember if she had any change of arguments on why not to lynch Gizelle though, so it might not mean much.

Lynch Butler.
OH NOES OMGUS, LYNCH SUKISOH QUICK
--
I was planning to lynch Kaito, but if Kaito is inactive, we might as well just let an inactive mafia go rather than an (In my opinion,) active scum stay.

I know this is a bad time to ask this but wth does 'OMGUS' mean? ._. And, I know you are not targeting me right now, but why only take the lynchs of cassandra and gizelle? Why not andreas? I never lynched andreas ._. and as for the two i did lynch, i had my reasons.
Yes, I know this may seem odd that I mentioned it out of no where when he never accused me but I am only saying this now to avoid unnecessary confusions in the future.

by **ajhockeystar** Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:22 am

Votecount 4.2
******************************
Kaito J.(1)- Rochelle R.
Butler P.(1)- Sukisoh S.
Sukisoh S.(1)-
Makino C.(0)-
Rochelle R.(0)-
Trinity M.(0)-
Mickey L.(0)-
Fergus K.(0)-
Not Voting(6)- Kaito J., Fergus K., Trinity M., Makino C., Butler P., Mickey L.
******************************
There are 8 alive so it takes 5 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Wednesday the 10th at 9pm EST.

If the deadline was now, Kaito J. would be lynched.

by Sukisoh S. Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:34 am

Huh, it seems I misread something. I only have 1 votecount on me. Whatever, my post still stands.

OMGUS which stands for Oh My God U Suck, is commonly used when person A is voting person B, in which person B immediately votes person A back.

by Makino C. Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:43 am

Sukisoh, answer me though. Why didn't you mention andreas's lynch? Why do you focus on only cassandra and gizelle? ._. If you obv take the two I lynched, it will seem scummy but I never agreed on lynching andreas, so why didn't you mention that?

by Rochelle R. Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:46 pm

Butler P. wrote:
Rochelle R. wrote:
Butler P. wrote:
Rochelle R. wrote:I agreed with mickey that fergus was being omgusy, but I figured it would a) be scummy to bring up and b) doesn't prove much and c) he came up with good arguments. Basically everything mickey said.

Ok I see what you're saying mickey. However, we haven't lynched a maf yet, so we don't know that outcome. Your being active may have been poor foresight.

Truly mystifying, I'm questioning Ms. Rochelle again. (don't worry Mickey, I haven't forgotten about you. I just wanted to address this while it was on my mind.) I have a problem with the first part of this post. If it would be scummy to bring up the omgussiness (yes, that is a word now) of Mr. Fergus earlier, why isn't it now? Also, you mentioned it doesn't prove much...do you believe mentioning the whole substitution thing proves more? How could something as small as someone who was subbed twice being scum prove more than someone acting omgussy in the game you are playing, right here, right now?
Because I had multiple reasons to not mention that. And yes, I do believe this proves less. Disagree with me all you want.

"Because I had multiple reasons to not mention that" still doesn't explain what made it scummy before, but not now.

Now someone else has brought it up. Now it isn't just me crappily defending myself.

by Rochelle R. Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:48 pm

Fergus K. wrote:
Mickey L. wrote:Far too lazy to find and quote those again, so here we go.
First quote (@Rochelle)
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I was saying that a mafia scumteam of Butler and I would make no sense because we're two of the most active in the game, and if neither of us died after we lynched a mafia, it would be very likely that we would be the scumteam.

Second and Third quotes @Fergus
What you're doing seems kind of OMGUSsy, although there are some valid points, like the fact that Rochelle has been fairly lynch-happy. Also, how do you know that Rochelle's changing of her mind was not as a result of her seeing better evidence in favor of something else and not because she is scum?

Please mention how I am OMGUSsy when I did not even lynch her yet nor did she lynch me. Please elaborate on that because I have no idea what you mean by that. Are you saying the only reason I read Rochelle as scum because she called me scum? Well if that's the problem, my reply that her reasons are weak and mainly things like "from experience the person that was subbed most is scum" and "maybe the scum is inactive" which doesn't really prove anything.

Also, if she changed her mind because she saw better evidence, then this implies that she made her first lynch because she is lynch-happy, and did not put much effort into thinking someone before she lynches if she is gonna change her decisions that quickly.

I called you scum. You called me scum. That's OMGUSing because it's possible you decided to call me scum only because I called you scum; you did it out of defense. It doesn't really seem like that to me, so I didn't bring it up before.

by Rochelle R. Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:49 pm

Fergus K. wrote:
Rochelle R. wrote:I agreed with mickey that fergus was being omgusy, but I figured it would a) be scummy to bring up and b) doesn't prove much and c) he came up with good arguments. Basically everything mickey said.

I also want you to elaborate why you agree with Mickey. Also, "Basically everything mickey said".. have we heard something like that in the past? hmmmm

Ok I see what you're saying mickey. However, we haven't lynched a maf yet, so we don't know that outcome. Your being active may have been poor foresight.

Yes. He called you OMGUSy

by Rochelle R. Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:51 pm

Fergus K. wrote:To be honest the main reason I have with Rochelle is that she doesn't really back up her arguments well. Her explanations are vague and does not really prove why she did what she did. For example, mentioning that there are 3 scums and there are 2 inactives so that's a good start? What do you mean by that?

That isn't at all what I said. I said one of the mafia could be inactive, so making 3-person scumteams is a bad idea; we don't have enough info to make a 3-person scumteam.

by Rochelle R. Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:55 pm

Mickey L. wrote:
My being active may have been poor foresight? What do you mean by that?
Also, if you believe he came up with good arguments, are you admitting being scum?

I mean that you both being active might not have taken into account the whole dying after first maf lynch thing.

No, I'm saying his arguments were legitimate and used good logic. They didn't prove anything, and weren't correct, but they weren't unacceptable.

by Rochelle R. Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:57 pm

Mickey L. wrote:I think the only one suggested was me+Butler.
I also believe I mentioned Rochelle as being in a scumteam with someone else, but I don't remember who : /

I think I had trinity + makino, butler + makino, and/or mickey + makino.

by Rochelle R. Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:04 pm

So on Susuko.

I think he makes good points. I didn't think any part of it was too scummy. I think a mafia would have let the one/two lynches go so as to not draw attention. I do await a response regarding the lynch on Andreas.

by Makino C. Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:14 pm

Rochelle R. wrote:
Mickey L. wrote:I think the only one suggested was me+Butler.
I also believe I mentioned Rochelle as being in a scumteam with someone else, but I don't remember who : /
I think I had trinity + makino, butler + makino, and/or mickey + makino.

MFW I am in all of these ;-;
What makes you come up with these? ._. Mickey was quite aggressive towards me, butler and I have completely different views on scum hunting and idek what made you think of me and trinity!

by Fergus K. Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:10 pm

Rochelle R. wrote:
Fergus K. wrote:
Mickey L. wrote:Far too lazy to find and quote those again, so here we go.
First quote (@Rochelle)
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I was saying that a mafia scumteam of Butler and I would make no sense because we're two of the most active in the game, and if neither of us died after we lynched a mafia, it would be very likely that we would be the scumteam.

Second and Third quotes @Fergus
What you're doing seems kind of OMGUSsy, although there are some valid points, like the fact that Rochelle has been fairly lynch-happy. Also, how do you know that Rochelle's changing of her mind was not as a result of her seeing better evidence in favor of something else and not because she is scum?

Please mention how I am OMGUSsy when I did not even lynch her yet nor did she lynch me. Please elaborate on that because I have no idea what you mean by that. Are you saying the only reason I read Rochelle as scum because she called me scum? Well if that's the problem, my reply that her reasons are weak and mainly things like "from experience the person that was subbed most is scum" and "maybe the scum is inactive" which doesn't really prove anything.

Also, if she changed her mind because she saw better evidence, then this implies that she made her first lynch because she is lynch-happy, and did not put much effort into thinking someone before she lynches if she is gonna change her decisions that quickly.

I called you scum. You called me scum. That's OMGUSing because it's possible you decided to call me scum only because I called you scum; you did it out of defense. It doesn't really seem like that to me, so I didn't bring it up before.

But your posts don't really support why you think I am scum >_>

by Fergus K. Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:12 pm

Rochelle R. wrote:
Fergus K. wrote:To be honest the main reason I have with Rochelle is that she doesn't really back up her arguments well. Her explanations are vague and does not really prove why she did what she did. For example, mentioning that there are 3 scums and there are 2 inactives so that's a good start? What do you mean by that?
That isn't at all what I said. I said one of the mafia could be inactive, so making 3-person scumteams is a bad idea; we don't have enough info to make a 3-person scumteam.

To be honest I suggest you unlynch Kaito. Because

1) If he flips town or even mafia, we have no information to based our next day plan on.

2) There are 2 active mafia in the game currently... why not find them?

by Fergus K. Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:17 pm

My gut feelings tell me a possible scum team is Sukisoh, Rochelle and Mickey.

I will explain this more later tomorrow.

by Fergus K. Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:22 pm

Fergus K. wrote:
Rochelle R. wrote:
Fergus K. wrote:To be honest the main reason I have with Rochelle is that she doesn't really back up her arguments well. Her explanations are vague and does not really prove why she did what she did. For example, mentioning that there are 3 scums and there are 2 inactives so that's a good start? What do you mean by that?
That isn't at all what I said. I said one of the mafia could be inactive, so making 3-person scumteams is a bad idea; we don't have enough info to make a 3-person scumteam.

To be honest I suggest you unlynch Kaito. Because

1) If he flips town or even mafia, we have no information to based our next day plan on.

2) There are 2 active mafia in the game currently... why not find them?

by 2 I mean in the case that Kaito is mafia

by Butler P. Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:43 pm

Sukisoh S. wrote:
Mickey L. wrote:Why did you lynch Butler instead of Makino? What makes you think of Butler as scummier than Makino?

He has acted more scummy (at least, in my opinion), than Makino over the course of the game. Either that, or he is aggressive/intimidating. (And I'll admit, its kinda because he lynched me.)

--
About Cassandra's lynch, I wouldn't say that Cassandra having just one more lynch then Makino is really too much a difference. IMO, if you agree with town on a person being scummy, you can gain their trust for a period of time (usually until people accuse of bandwagoning few days later).

But yeah, I kinda exaggerated. It wouldn't hurt me, but it wouldn't help me either (as in the case now, apparently I'm scummy for not lynching).

I have three things to say.

1.) "He has acted more scummy than Makino" is an extremely vague statement. I would prefer you to elaborate on that statement before you decide to lynch me. (If the answer is "because he is aggressive and intimidating, see 2.))

2.) Being aggressive is not scummy. It's a common play style that many people, including myself, have adopted. Just because it contrasts with your play style doesn't mean you should consider me scummy. Also, what do you mean by intimidating? And how would that be a reason to lynch me?

3.) When did I lynch you?

by Trinity M. Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:08 pm

Holy crap you guys post shit fast. 5 pages in a day o.o

Sukisoh S. wrote:Gizelle? This is the one where I would admit that I didn't lynch for no strong reason. IIRC, Trinity wanted to test something out and requested nobody else lynch Gizelle. I kept my lynch to myself, but in the end she didn't say when her test was done.

But i did say. I said she isn't answering any questions and is inactive basically, so st go ahead and lynch her if you guys wanted to.
Also, about the butler thing, I'm pretty damn certain that one of the incredibly active posters are scum. Just seems likely in this game that 1/however many scum would be really town focussed and gain their trust. Butler has done a couple of odd things, but perhaps we should look a bit further in depth at some posts of everyone, you never know.

Not leaving a lynch, i don't feel it's my place and i have no clue right now.

(Also, i blame my lack of posts on timezones, you guys seem to love to post when I'm away or asleep :p)

by Butler P. Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:11 pm

"A couple of odd things." You are the third or fourth person to mention this. Could anyone possibly explain what these odd things are?

by Butler P. Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:21 pm

I'm going to Lynch Rochelle. Every time she says something, I feel like we have to force her to back it up, and even when she does, she doesn't back them up well. I also feel as if she's been trying to find reasons to suspect me just because I have questioned her often (In fact, me questioning her often was one of here reasons).

One of the biggest things that rubbed me the wrong way about Rochelle was how she turned the number of times Fergus was subbed out into a reason to suspect him. She said that her past experiences told her that this was scummy. Well, let's look at game 9, for example, which had a whopping three players subbed out twice.

Users that were subbed out twice and flipped Mafia: Akina E.

Users that were subbed out twice and flipped Town: Robert O., Gulzar L.

So, since this happened once, it is a scummy thing now?

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