Game 7: Black Flag Nightless

Harrison Z. wrote:okay pietra posted again. Pietra i am confused by your vote as from your evidence presented by your reads seems to imply that you think poncho is scummier so why mandy?

My scumreads from earlier this day had both poncho and mandy as scummy, not one over the other. at the time I thought that Mandy had scummy actions the first day, and a scummy response to me (casually brushing me off as town without looking into me further), whereas I thought that Poncho only had a scummy response to me (getting worked up about me being "too aggressive"). The Poncho being an active lurker doesn't point particularly to scum or not so I took that into account in my decision to vote mandy instead.

Poncho D. wrote:
Bleh this crappy site needs to save drafts for when it crashes (aka all the time for me)...

Regardless, here are the reasons Pietra is overly agressive and scummy-ish.

1) Pietra controls the votes here.The people who post will be the ones making all the calls, so why would mafia not want to vote if no one was around to argue against it. While I will admit a smart mafia would just shut down and not talk (which I will use against you again later) I would say that once a mafia acts a certain way, they can't stop. Therefore anyone's active nature is not in the slightest, a sign of being town. Only the content can help us at this point due to such deadness.

You just explained what the optimal Mafia strategy is. Scum would have nothing to worry about considering that there was literally no scumhunting for days. why would they bring anything up to draw attention themselves? there would be no reason to because they could just let the town rot in decay. Consider that Kay was randomly lynched. Mafia doesn't even need to post one bit because even if they rely on the Random Number Generator for a random lynch, they still have better odds: 5 townies to 3 mafia. There literally is no reason for a mafia to have spoken up when days have gone by with no action whatsoever. And guess what, I didn't follow this "optimal" mafia strategy.

Poncho D. wrote:
2) Pietra's reads are out right ludicrous. She say we need to talk (implying it is pro town) and then foses two people who actually post some? That's a logical fallacy if I ever did hear one.

First of all, please don't put words in my mouth. When did I ever imply that it was pro town to simply talk. Are you referring to:

Pietra H. wrote:Tear me down, agree with me, just post please!

because nothing here actually says that talking = town. This is just a reasonable call for posts when the game had stagnated for days on end.

Next, maybe you were too blinded to actually comprehend my reads, but I didn't finger of suspect Mandy and you (Poncho) BECAUSE you posted some. I provided my reasoning in the following reads:
[quote="Pietra H."]mandy felt suspicious to me, and his/her reaction of "Nah Pietra, I think you're town" sounds like trying to puff up my ego so that he/she stays on my good side. scummy

poncho to me seems scum but for different reasons than what harrison says. He claims that I am "overly aggressive" when I just unvoted and voted, which several others have done. it sounds like he doesn't want anybody to stir up attention because if he is the mafia right now, he is in a good spot with nobody doing anything to hunt him down. scum
Notice that the fact that you were posting at all did not factor in my reads. In fact, these two scum reads stemmed from the content of both of your posts. Particularly, both of your tones/attitudes and reactions to me calling you out. Has nothing to do with you posting or not posting so don't try to warp my reads into something they are not.

Furthermore, I would like to point out:

Poncho D. wrote:Therefore anyone's active nature is not in the slightest, a sign of being town. Only the content can help us at this point due to such deadness.

As I explain, I actually use the content of Mandy and your posts in my reads, so I don't see where you are getting logical fallacy from. It honestly sounds like you are grasping for straws trying to distort my argument.

Poncho D. wrote:
3) She funnels people. Its very one track and hardly changes without actual consideration. Its almost like halfhearted scum hunting.

Maybe if you OR Mandy had actually done something to make me see both of you as not scummy, would I consider changing my opinion. Honestly there were only two events that actually happened in my mind: Mandy's original shadiness (backing off lynches), and then his/her response. Neither of those events made me change my opinion of him/her so why would I. Similar to Poncho D.: his original shadiness (active lurking - which honestly isn't as big a deal compared to Mandy), and then his angry response (which was the bigger reason for me seeing you as scum). I'm not going to give out wishy-washy reads just to seem like I'm not "funneling", I'm just going to say what I think. And your one response at the time did nothing to change my opinion, so why would I say otherwise.

Poncho D. wrote:
4) She buddies Harrison so hard its not even funny. "You post a lot so you must be town." My earlier point shows the logical errors (or lack of logic to begin with) in these actions. The reason Harrison appears town should be because of what he says and how he says it. Not his activity level.

Once again, if you are going to call me out for not looking at people's content when I make my reads, please don't be a hypocrite and ignore when my reads do actually look at content. Especially when you bring them up two lines before in your argument against me (assuming that my reads on Poncho and Mandy aren't based on content). Admittedly, my read on Harrison in particular has to do with gut feeling, overall contributions, and scumhunting, which is the key point. People can post a lot and not say anything of substance. People can also post a lot and scumhunt. Harrison falls under the latter (when he takes a closer look at my early posts and intentions), and thus I see him as town. If you want me to elaborate more, just ask, but don't just dismiss it as buddying.

Mandy T. wrote:It's 5 to 3, yeah.
Poncho has a point. We only have one more mistake before we get Rick Rolled by AJ we lose.
I honestly thought Pietra was town, jeez.
"You post a lot so you must be town" is utterly ridiculous logic. I'm getting rid of that "Nah Pietra" thingy, and I'm beginning to suspect Harrison and Pietra may be mafia.

I'm also suspicious of this response. I give you a scumread, and your response after having read my scumread does nothing to address my points. Instead, you just agree with one of Poncho's points that argues with an entirely separate issue than my Mandy scumread. Why don't you want to respond to what I say directly?

Resu V. wrote:After reviewing past evidence i'm leaded to believe Pietra has something to do with this.

Lol something to do with what? At this point in the game let's see what happened:
Day 1, other people besides me bandwagon on Benny via RVS, he gets lynched and is Townie
Day 2, nobody does anything, and a random Townie is lynched

So if you mean "something to do with this" means something to do with the newfound activity level, then yes, I agree. But otherwise, nothing has even happened that I was a part of that has resulted in a mislynch.

It sounds like you are just trying to make it sound like the past two Townie lynches have been my fault when if you actually pay attention, it has been a collective Village failure. If you are town, don't try to shift the blame away from yourself - and if you are Mafia, don't think that we won't call you out for stretching the truth.

Resu V. wrote:Everyone has noticed he/she has been moving full steam ahead bulldozing over comments being very adamant and aggresive

Once again blowing things out of proportion. I won't deny that from the outside I might seem adamant/aggressive, but to put it as "moving full steam ahead" and "bulldozing over comments" makes it sound like I don't actually read the content of others' posts.  I can literally copy/paste every single post that had happened between my last two posts (before this current stream of posts that I've done in the past 30 minutes) as  a recent example:

Pietra H. wrote:i apologize if i seem aggressive you goateed freak. just you so know, that 'pointless bandwagon' that i was on ended with me being the only person that ended up voting you, benny and resu unvoted. plus I originally lynched kay, i switched when I saw you on without doing anything -->when the game was at its deadest<--. if my intention was to bandwagon votes, i would have just gone on benny, which everybody else was doing at the time

Harrison Z. wrote:just wut? How can you determine someone is scummy based of rvs?

Grace B. wrote:I agree with Harrison. Recreational vehicles are NOT scummy.

Mandy T. wrote:Hehehehe. Anyway...
I just came on to see what was happening round these parts, because I have no leads to what's actually happening.

ajhockeystar wrote:Votecount 2.2
************************************
Kay L.(0):
Pietra H.(0):
Grace B.(0):
Mandy T.(0):
Harrison Z.(0):
Nicolai G.(0):
Resu V.(0):
Lisa F.(0):
Poncho D.(0):
Not Voting(9): Nicolai G., Lisa F., Resu V., Poncho D., Grace B., Kay L., Mandy T., Pietra H., Harrison Z.
************************************
There are 9 people so it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline is Monday the 12th at 9pm EST.

DEADLINE IN JUST OVER AN HOUR!

Plurality applies. If the deadline was now, I would randomize a lynch.

ajhockeystar wrote:Deadline!

Kay L. was lynched by randomization.

They were a...:

Day 3!

Votecount 3.0
************************************
Pietra H.(0):
Grace B.(0):
Mandy T.(0):
Harrison Z.(0):
Nicolai G.(0):
Resu V.(0):
Lisa F.(0):
Poncho D.(0):
Not Voting(: Nicolai G., Lisa F., Resu V., Poncho D., Grace B., Mandy T., Pietra H., Harrison Z.
************************************
There are 8 people so it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline is Saturday the 17th at 9pm EST.

Plurality applies.

Pietra H. wrote:is anyone even here

since we are all dead, i thought i could give some of my opinions so far. we are pretty dangerously close to losing already, plus the fact that we have gotten nowhere at all to even try looking for scum.

mandy felt suspicious to me, and his/her reaction of "Nah Pietra, I think you're town" sounds like trying to puff up my ego so that he/she stays on my good side. scummy

i like that harrison called me out since it shows that he is one of the few that is paying attention. town

i "like" that grace comes on just to provide a post that says nothing game-related and then disappears. null

poncho to me seems scum but for different reasons than what harrison says. He claims that I am "overly aggressive" when I just unvoted and voted, which several others have done. it sounds like he doesn't want anybody to stir up attention because if he is the mafia right now, he is in a good spot with nobody doing anything to hunt him down. scum

literally everybody else I don't remember anything about. null

Tear me down, agree with me, just post please!

I think it's pretty obvious why I was "moving full steam ahead": nobody was discussing, so it would help to get some talk going. Also notice that this ties into my response to Poncho D's first point against me: if I was Mafia why would I bring scumhunting topics up when the game was already dead. It would be an instant win for Mafia at that point, so I'm not seeing how me spurring up the discussion is scum-intentioned.

Next, you bring up "bulldozing over comments". If you actually take a look at my reads, I have reasons for my scumreads (they might be incorrect in retrospect, but they weren't spun out of thing air). You twisting words is a good way to make your argument seem less credible - I suggest you don't do that in the future.

Resu V. wrote:This...

"mandy felt suspicious to me, and his/her reaction of "Nah Pietra, I think you're town" sounds like trying to puff up my ego so that he/she stays on my good side. scummy"

And this...

"poncho to me seems scum but for different reasons than what harrison says. He claims that I am "overly aggressive" when I just unvoted and voted, which several others have done. it sounds like he doesn't want anybody to stir up attention because if he is the mafia right now, he is in a good spot with nobody doing anything to hunt him down. scum"

Don't match up quite well in my opinion. Okay so let's think Pietra has been on Poncho all game right?

Yet it seems as if she/he is forming a plan and from the looks at it she isn't doing so hot. Have you noticed he/she has been all over Poncho all game? Yet not many people are voting for Poncho so what does he/she do searches for an outlet, aka Mandy for saying "Nah Pietra, I think you're town"

I'm not sure I even understand what you are saying about me "forming a plan". I don't think I ever said that? Or maybe honey, you're mixing me up with Chaz from Game 6, since he was the only one with an outward "plan". It's okay, we forgive you!

Also, nice revisionist history you have going on there. Notice that my very first game-related post was the RVS on Kay where I also call out Mandy for acting shady. Everything about Poncho happened afterwards. So I don't even know why you say I am "searching for an outlet". I have thought Mandy was scummy all game, earlier than I thought Poncho was scummy, and for those reasons I have lynched Mandy. It has nothing to do with not "having majority opinion" to lynch Poncho - I gave my reasons for voting Mandy (the same reasons that I have in my scumread, and in my recent response to Harrison). So what is now: for the (upteenth) time, putting words in my mouth? No go.

Resu V. wrote:It's a actual fact that the idea with the most assumptions is a lie and thus I

So are you going to call out Poncho's assumption that Mafia would jump out of the gate ravenously hungry for a lynch? I'm referring to:

Poncho D. wrote:1) Pietra controls the votes here.The people who post will be the ones making all the calls, so why would mafia not want to vote if no one was around to argue against it. While I will admit a smart mafia would just shut down and not talk (which I will use against you again later) I would say that once a mafia acts a certain way, they can't stop.

Is this not an assumption, or do you actually believe what Poncho says is fact.

If the former is true, then the double standards are cringeworthy - way to focus on one individual and warp your opinions without even looking elsewhere.

If the latter is true, then I respectfully disagree. Like I have stated multiple times, Mafia wouldn't be so reckless to start a lynch out of nowhere when nobody was being suspected because of Town's miserable activity at the time. Does Mafia speaking up when they have the game clinched actually make sense to you?

Harrison Z. wrote:Pietra's votes are feeling really off for me though.

If you need me to explain anything, just ask. I would be more than willing to respond.

Grace B. wrote:Well, uh
I'm not entirely sure who I should be lynching but
Lynch Pietra H
Also, Harrison, what does "rvs" stand for in this context, again?

If you're not sure who you should be lynching you should ask for information rather than blindly follow what the most recent poster did.

Poncho D. wrote:

Harrison Z. wrote:also requesting that you unvote grace unitl you have reread because it feels like you voted pietra basically because everybody else was doing it which is a terrible reason.

The majority were voting for Mandy before she posted that.. not Pietra. -_-
Vote Pietra

Harrison is talking about recency bias: let's say you haven't been up to date on the thread (which is a pretty bad reason considering nothing has really happened lol). But anyways, let's say that is the case. You probably will read the most recent post, and of course that will affect your way of thinking the most.

Also, would you like to add some reasoning for this vote? Or is it just another on the wagon.

Nicolai G. wrote:well idk whet to do so yeah Vote Pietra

Same thing to you Nicolai, you should ask for opinions if you're not sure what to do! Remember that you only have one mislynch allowed before scum wins, so don't waste the opportunity.   

Harrison Z. wrote:okay starting to feel pietra is probably town. Most of the votes/suspicions are pretty terrible. Most people are literally voting for her because other people are. Resu I feel is the only one that has a decent case on her.

If Pietra flips town I recommed we focus on mandy/grace/nicolai since they by far have the worst votes/suspicions

Harrison I actually disagree with you here. (For the last sentence, not the first paragraph)

To me, the inactives (Grace/Nicolai) seem like they just bandwagoned, without any malicious intent but rather confusion and/or recency bias because most of the most recent votes have been wagon votes on me.

In the even that I flip town (which is 100%), you should actually look at how my lynch came about. Who started it, and what subtle mechanisms were there for the wagon to form? In this case, take a closer look at Resu and Poncho, both key players in this wagon lynch of me. Poncho not so much because he has always been in the same standing with me. But Resu, she comes out of nowhere distorting the truth so that she can form a wagon on me (take a look at my replies to her points to see why these are inaccurate and just literary fluff to make her point seem more valid than it actually is). Especially because Resu's sole post does not even address other players in the game - like does she not think Mandy is scummy at all, or is she just trying to divert all attention to me hoping that nobody notices that Mandy is seeping through unscathed.

Then Poncho just wagons without further reasoning. Good job.

Now that I have responded to the recent posts, I will now demonstrate how logically I cannot be scum. I suggest you all listen up.

Let's assume that I am scum. Now, of course I would need to be partners with other scum teammates. (Two others, in fact) Does it make sense for me to be paired with the other players in the game? If you read on, you will find that the answer is an unsurprising NO! I will go through every single player and show why I cannot logically be scum.

For reference, the players in the game are: Pietra, Poncho, Mandy, Resu, Harrison, Grace, Nicolai, Lisa

Pietra + Poncho Scumteam

This is probably one of the most unlikely pairings in the game. Even bussing wouldn't be this bad. Basically I call out Poncho at the very beginning for something that wasn't realistically that scummy (active lurking), but just odd/suspicious in my opinion. Then I press the point further, and Poncho gets into kind of a rage-like counter on me. I would be the most surprised if Poncho and I were a team, and realistically if you were watching the game from the outside this would be an instant-rule out possibility.

Pietra + Mandy Scumteam

Also not possible. Granted, Mandy's hesitant lynching at the beginning of the game was weird and scumlike, and thus scum could reasonably call out a Mandy scum partner for her odd behavior at the beginning. However, everything that has occurred in the game afterwards negates that possibility. I wouldn't call out Mandy on her scummy response if I was on her team, and I sure as heck wouldn't vote for Mandy at a time where literally no votes were happening and the Mafia could get away with avoiding a vote at all.

Pietra + Resu Scumteam

This is very unlikely as well. Notice that Resu was subbed in just recently, AND Resu was the first person to cast a vote against me. Honestly it would make no sense for Mafia to bring up attention on me, especially not actually lead the wagon on me, if we were partners. This pairing makes no logical sense.

Pietra + Grace Scumteam

Grace is unlikely. After Resu's vote, the vote was two votes Mandy (from Harrison and Pietra), and one vote Pietra (by Resu). AJ has stated that this game goes under plurality rules. Which means that at this point in the game, Mandy would be lynched. Why would a scum partner in Grace want to tie up the vote when it's not like there was majority opinion. If we were both scum, Grace would want to hold off on her vote without bussing at all, in the hopes that the vote would come down to plurality and Mandy would be offed.
By putting me in a 2-2 tie with Mandy, Grace shows that she cannot be on the same scumteam as me.

Pietra + Nicolai Scumteam

This one is actually a little tricky. It's 3-2 on Pietra, so Nicolai can tie up the vote on Mandy, OR push Pietra further. Honestly I would see Mafia scum partner not vote at all: they probably wouldn't vote Mandy so as not to seem like buddying, but at this point they don't want to put the vote entirely out of reach (so that they can tie it up if someone else switches their vote). For these reasons, I think a scumteam with Nicolai is unlikely (but possible admittedly).

So why did I bring up these possible scumteams? Well, if you look logically, there are three scum members in this group of 8 right now (Pietra, Poncho, Mandy, Resu, Grace, Nicolai, Harrison, Lisa).

Notice how I rule out five of the scumteams - it is unreasonable for me to be paired with Poncho, Mandy, Resu, Grace, OR Nicolai for the reasons stated above.

If that is true, then the scumteam would HAVE to be Pietra, Harrison, and Lisa.

Lisa would be possible because she literally has done nothing all game.

Harrison, however, has been an active contributor and genuinely scumhunted, pointing out flaws in people's logic and making sure that questionable posts are called out. In my eyes, and in many of your eyes I'm sure, Harrison is reasonably town.

Therefore, if Harrison is town, I must be town. Unless you all think that one of the "impossible pairings" that I list above are actually possible, in which case, please explain so that we can discuss further.

Poncho D. wrote:I don't have a read on Mandy, I still think Harrison is probably town though.

Also, JUST so you know, I bring up this quote from Poncho. So Poncho, do you think that Harrison is town? If so, you should unlynch me, for the reasons that I stated above. If you have any questions about my logic, do not hesitate to ask.

And for other players, I ask all of you to consider your reads on Harrison. If Harrison seems town to you then it would logically be impossible for me to be scum (because that would require me to be teamed with one of the five impossible scumteam members). And again, if you need me to clarify, I will gladly explain more.

So in the event that I am lynched (and when I flip town), I would suggest looking closer at Mandy, Resu, and Poncho. (I would actually put Resu and Poncho scummier first because of their direct distortion of my words when they responded, whereas Mandy simply ignored my questions entirely). As I stated before, I don't suggest looking at Grace/Nicolai because you would basically be going off very little evidence, and there would be a high chance of instant game over if it turns out only one of Grace/Nicolai is scum, and you happen to choose the wrong one. I think it is MUCH better to lynch one of the people whose posts have demonstrated their scumminess (e.g. Mandy, Resu, or Poncho).