Game 34: Purgatory

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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by ajhockeystar on Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:13 am

Votecount 1.4
******************************

Bart S.(2)- Yaichi H., Pit B.
Kinso D.(2)- Butch C., Kaiser P.
Evian W.(1)- Taka T.
Taka T.(0)-
Butch C.(0)-
Kaiser P.(0)-
Kathi G.(0)-
Pit B.(0)-
Yaichi H.(0)-
Not Voting(4)- Kathi G., Kinso D., Bart S., Evian W.
******************************
There are 9 alive so it takes 5 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Friday the 13th at 9pm EST.

Bart S. was lynched.

He was the...:
Vanilla Townie

Heaven Phase 1 Commence! Deadline is the 18th at 9pm EST.


Last edited by ajhockeystar on Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by ajhockeystar on Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:26 am

Kathi G. has been subbed out, a new user is now using the account.
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Taka T. on Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:49 pm

vote butch
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Kinso D. on Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:07 am

Okay bart was really acting dumb to be honest, either that or he was just a bad player.
Now for the heaven phase I don't really see anyone who is 100% town, I'll try to reread and find my biggest townread
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Evian W. on Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:15 am

Vote Taka T.
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by ajhockeystar on Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:48 am

Votecount 2.1
******************************

Butch C.(1)- Taka T.
Taka T.(1)- Evian W.
Kinso D.(0)-
Evian W.(0)-
Kaiser P.(0)-
Kathi G.(0)-
Pit B.(0)-
Yaichi H.(0)-
Not Voting(6)- Kathi G., Kinso D., Kaiser P., Yaichi H., Pit B., Butch C., Kaiser P.
******************************
There are 8 alive so it takes 5 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Wednesday the 18th at 9pm EST.

If the deadline was now, Butch C. would be lynched.


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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Butch C. on Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:07 am

Taka T. wrote:
I've been thinking about the setup. It is actually important to get lynches like Evian out of the way sooner rather than later. The setup is such that the good townies will leave the game soon, by design. If active and visible scum like evian is lynched late in the game (but not before judgment day), they will eventually become the most active and seemingly useful person in the game, and then they are harder to lynch. Let me put it this way, butch. suppose you and I get sent to heaven: who is left to push evian?
Which is why I don't want either of us to be sent to heaven today. To me, being sent to heaven today is almost like a glorified n1 nightkill but with the ability to talk a little bit more. Which is why I dont want to be sent to heaven this early because I want more time in this game and also because I got slight confidence booster after making the right call not to vote bart (which didnt work out in the end rip). I would rather put in the effort to think about who else is town and a good heaven candidate.

Taka T. wrote:
I don't like a Kinso lynch for a few reasons. I actually really like his willingness to engage with pit who voted him. This is in direct contrast with Bart, who seems to hope that people who vote him just eventually forget about his existence. This is a big big big townmarker for me and I think some credence needs to be given to my read here.
By "willingness to engage with pit" you mean:
Kinso D. wrote:Mind Explaining or is this just an RVS thing?
this? Because the rest of his posts don't actually engage with Pit at all and instead either complains or just defends. If you were indeed referring to this then I dont understand how this is any better than Bart's reaction when you put him as "hard lock scum" (except maybe you werent lynching him at the time but still). The point you are trying to make is that Kinso tries to engage with those who lynch him, however this is clearly false when you realise that Kinso pretty much just slated Bart by calling him a bad player then proceeds to tell us that he will reread to find out who he thinks the towniest player is, completely ignoring my points against him from the hell phase (and i definitely did lynch him).

Taka T. wrote:
The second thing is that literally everything Kaiser has been posting has been to tunnel Kinso. Putting the substance aside (although really, my opinion on the substance is the same as I said above, that I like Kinso's willingness to engage with people who vote him), I tend to really REALLY dislike people behind day 1 tunnels. There are 9 players in this game, you have to get reads 8 of them, you have no idea what alignment anybody is, but somehow you've latched onto one person who you really dislike and ignore everyone else? I think this is scummy, and I don't like being on wagon with scum.
I understand your point on how Kaiser has basically ignored everyone except Kaiser which would seem scummy. Although looking at his ISOs he did address Pit by expressing a small amount of dissatisfaction on something he said but then he says his reads make Kaiser see Pit as d1 townread. I also don't see a problem with trying to get your scumread lynched because I don't see why mafia would just tunnel Kinso and not also press on someone say Bart. In fact this post in particular was the reason why I got a townlean on Kaiser...
Kaiser P. wrote:Im not really sure why. Kinso's reaction just urks me a bit more its hard to explain
Kinso i gave reasoning, your reaction to the shitposting readlist seemed fake and wierd. Read the thread instead of throwing off my read as no reasoning
Specifically the first bit, I asked him why he FoS'd Kinso and not Bart despite saying pretty much the same thing. Although it is a bit annoying how he didn't really give a reason, I felt that him still going for his opinion and not saying something along the lines of "yeah Bart also urks me FoS on him too" was coming from a town Kaiser. It shows that he felt something that made him believe bart isnt as scummy as people made him out to be and so didn't press on him, which is something mafia wouldnt do as they would most likely have pressed on both even if one of them was to a greater extent. The only reason that I can think of to explain this from a scum Kaiser perspective is if Kaiser and Kinso were both scum and Kaiser is trying to bus Kinso as he knows that Bart is town. But in that case Kinso would still be mafia and I would still vote Kinso first. It is also for that reason that I am reluctant on voting for Kaiser to go to heaven, and also because I saw him come online (along with Evian) quite a few hours after AJ announced heaven phase and never said anything.

Evian W. wrote:Vote Taka T.
........? You're joking right? After my points against you that I still want you to answer and also Taka's points + lynch against you and all you felt like doing was "Vote Taka"??? Also the last time I checked the members list (before you posted) it said that you came online about 6 hours or so after AJ commenced heaven face. I thought it was fine because you may just be writing a long post or something, but now all it looks like is that you came online to see Taka say "Vote Butch" so you decided it'll be fine to do the same? It seems clear that you thought about voting Taka before heaven phase began because no one has actually said anything with substance as of yet which means no post would have changed your mind, so then why didnt you do that when you last came on? This makes me believe moreso that you simply did this just because you saw Taka do it...
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Taka T. on Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:27 pm

Butch C. wrote:
Taka T. wrote:
I've been thinking about the setup. It is actually important to get lynches like Evian out of the way sooner rather than later. The setup is such that the good townies will leave the game soon, by design. If active and visible scum like evian is lynched late in the game (but not before judgment day), they will eventually become the most active and seemingly useful person in the game, and then they are harder to lynch. Let me put it this way, butch. suppose you and I get sent to heaven: who is left to push evian?
Which is why I don't want either of us to be sent to heaven today. To me, being sent to heaven today is almost like a glorified n1 nightkill but with the ability to talk a little bit more. Which is why I dont want to be sent to heaven this early because I want more time in this game and also because I got slight confidence booster after making the right call not to vote bart (which didnt work out in the end rip). I would rather put in the effort to think about who else is town and a good heaven candidate.
Who do you want then?
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Kinso D. on Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:23 am

vote taka
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Evian W. on Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:38 am

Sorry for not really posting, some thing was on recently. I'll get on from the start.

Like I'm unsure why you think this fact so badly that what I did wasn't an RVS just because I got off after a real life day? Like let's apply logic, what else could I be trying there? Pushing them away from town on the basis of them giving a weird list of reads?

As for the second content, seriously.. it was for Pit who had posted about Bart... my posts aren't that confusing i don't even know if at this point you're reading them differently..

Moving onwards, your reply to Pit has this questionable thing - you stated that you don't have the neutrality or in between behaviour which alright i agree, but then at the same time you're being neutral to Pit yourself, and then you suddenly going like "oh i understand" is something i don't appreciate much, it's really like you going for perfect townread for Pit because "you understand them".

Taka T. wrote:My major problem with Evian is that he has been completely avoiding me since I started posting. This is a guy who is prodding people for activity early in the week, telling people to be less useless, asking people questions. He parks his vote on me. When questioned on it (by Butch), he mangles his explanation COMPLETELY and tries to explain that it was a RVS vote. His vote, as of 12 hours before deadline, was still on me.

Neutral
Big issues with this. I haven't been avoiding you. If there's some post I didn't reply to, then I probably missed something? I agree to the next three things, and then there's the question about the RVS, I don't get why you are so stuck up to believe that it wasn't an RVS. And a question as to the last line (which wasn't necessary to be there? I don't know what you're trying to convey by saying that?) - there's this hypocrisy where you're saying that it wasn't an RVS but are saying that my vote was on you as of 12 hours before deadline?

Taka T. wrote:Here is my narrative of what happened. Evian parks a vote on me. Tries to seem helpful. When I come back with a gorgeous wall of analysis, he freaks out, gets cold feet, doesn't know what the hell to do or how the hell to respond to me and Butch, and effectively disappears from the game.
Did I really seem like I freaked out? All I honestly did was ask a literal basic question and appreciate your scumhunting. Like what the hell even, I replied in the most calm and normal manner I could. This aggravates me seriously, just how badly are you reading my posts?
And I disappeared? Do I not deserve 8 hours of sleep? Taka what the hell are you saying?

And in the end you just call me informative so that you can conclude it with another reason for a smooth lynch. That's my narrative, I suppose?

They way you describe Kaiser's questioning/reading on Kinso is like he's literally attacking Kinso and wants him to be badly lynched, while what Kaiser seriously is seeming to do is to state his true reads on Kinso. Like sure, I agree that he should've put in more reads on others too. And you overextend what you're saying which really becomes filler for the post - I don't like how you go "Oh I hate tunnels and there are this and that", tunneling is scum like and that's obvious enough - why do you wish to seriously just fatten your post?
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Evian W. on Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:59 am

Butch C. wrote:Which is why I don't want either of us to be sent to heaven today. To me, being sent to heaven today is almost like a glorified n1 nightkill but with the ability to talk a little bit more. Which is why I dont want to be sent to heaven this early because I want more time in this game and also because I got slight confidence booster after making the right call not to vote bart (which didnt work out in the end rip). I would rather put in the effort to think about who else is town and a good heaven candidate.
I see this here, and:
Taka T. wrote:vote butch
Escapes your eyes? I don't get this - you're nodding heads over the heaven lynch being a glorified n1 nightkill, yet you just let the post go below your eyes?

Butch C. wrote:I understand your point on how Kaiser has basically ignored everyone except Kaiser which would seem scummy. Although looking at his ISOs he did address Pit by expressing a small amount of dissatisfaction on something he said but then he says his reads make Kaiser see Pit as d1 townread. I also don't see a problem with trying to get your scumread lynched because I don't see why mafia would just tunnel Kinso and not also press on someone say Bart. In fact this post in particular was the reason why I got a townlean on Kaiser...
:? At that point, there was little possibility of the fact that a wagon other than Bart could be started. He could easily have been getting a Kinso wagon to 1. Not get into the "you lynched Bart you lynched town" wagon and 2. To get points / fake scumhunt (since that's quite possible/visible there - he literally has to show scumhunting there to fulfil his needs)

Butch C. wrote:........? You're joking right? After my points against you that I still want you to answer and also Taka's points + lynch against you and all you felt like doing was "Vote Taka"??? Also the last time I checked the members list (before you posted) it said that you came online about 6 hours or so after AJ commenced heaven face. I thought it was fine because you may just be writing a long post or something, but now all it looks like is that you came online to see Taka say "Vote Butch" so you decided it'll be fine to do the same? It seems clear that you thought about voting Taka before heaven phase began because no one has actually said anything with substance as of yet which means no post would have changed your mind, so then why didnt you do that when you last came on? This makes me believe moreso that you simply did this just because you saw Taka do it...
...I'll just scrap the whole point by saying this much - you're overthinking it. No such complex thing came in my mind. Sometimes I can feel sleepy and choose not to post instead. And really, overthinking isn't the best thing here.
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Butch C. on Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:24 pm

Taka T. wrote:
Who do you want then?
I was hoping for others to actually talk so I can decide (eg. Kathi since she has a new sub).

Kinso D. wrote:vote taka
You must be doing this on purpose now....are you even reading my posts???

Evian W. wrote:Like I'm unsure why you think this fact so badly that what I did wasn't an RVS just because I got off after a real life day? Like let's apply logic, what else could I be trying there? Pushing them away from town on the basis of them giving a weird list of reads?
Well what I had in mind was that you could have taken the opportunity of Taka's seemingly controversial readlist for an easy way to seem as if you are proactive and helping town win. But that's not important, what's important is that as long as my points still stand, I have reason to believe you are lying about the fact your vote was a pressure vote. You seem to be trying to drop the whole argument without responding to my points which makes this even more suspicious. If the whole RVS thing is true then you should be able to knock down my points and convince me, which is why I still have reason to believe you are lying about this and you evading my points is making it more suspicious.

Evian W. wrote:As for the second content, seriously.. it was for Pit who had posted about Bart... my posts aren't that confusing i don't even know if at this point you're reading them differently..
I had another look, you were definitely replying to my post which had 2 points towards you. I asked why you had Pit as neutral while Yaichi as scumlean. Then you just randomly mentioned Bart which made no sense. Not sure what you're on about tho, there's no way that was directed to Pit. Here is the quote for reference:
Evian's reply:

Evian W. wrote:
Butch C. wrote:
Big Quote:

Evian W. wrote:Vote Taka T.

Firstly, there start. I'm not a big fan of it. Gave of random "lock"ed reads. This feels more like a forced contribution, more like "Hey I'm giving my reads early, I'm town for sure. You know that I'm town now!" I am not even sure from where did they bring that read. In the hindsight, I understand what they are doing, but I'm still up for this lynch.
From the explanations that I have from evian I understand that this was actually just a disguised RVS so to get Taka talking. However my problem here is that if you really intended this as a pressure vote, why were you so quick, as Taka said, to admit that your lynch was a disguised RVS? Taka didn't even respond so it just ruins your plan completely. It's also weird how you felt the need to include the whole hindsight thing even though it takes some of the pressure off your vote and opens the door for people (like myself) to question as to why you voted him when you appear to know his true objective. In addition to this, when Taka did blast out the massive post where he responded and gave reads on everyone, you didn't address it at all and only responded to mine and bart's posts. It's strange given that your pressure vote shows your keenness to listen to what Taka has to say and "be read further" as you said yourself. Finally you launch an early readlist which addressed Taka as "Neutral". The fact that you know Taka's true motives and truly think he is neutral is irrelevant, you told us that you made a disguised RVS in order to push Taka and give him the edge to talk (aka pressure him to talk). However you voided the pressure completely when you don't even have Taka as a scumlean. If you were indeed trying to get Taka talking via pressure then there is no reason why you would read Taka as neutral and shift the pressure off. These points collectively make me doubt whether your lynch really was a disguised RVS.

Evian W. wrote:Therefore, a readlist which has been created as of now:

Bart S. - Scumlean
Butch C. - Neutral ; D1Lean
Evian W. - Definitely town
Kaiser P. - Scum
Kathi G. - Neutral
Kinso D. - Very Wavering Neutral
Pit B. - Neutral
Taka T. - Neutral
Yaichi H. - Scumlean

Oh for clarification, D1Lean is more of my own "townlean", but extremely slight, basically that they are someone I don't want to lose day one
Something else I noticed about your readlist. You gave Yaichi a scumlean for presumably the fact he noted Bart's bad reaction, then never posted again. However Pit basically did exactly the same thing and around the same time of day. The only difference is that Pit just did an RVS while Yaichi appeared to have some sort of reason which funnily enough matches yours but without the explanation. So why is Pit neutral and Yaichi scumlean?

As to who I think should be lynched, I am still fairly undecided. I don't think a list is helpful because everyone except Taka and Evian would be in it (Evian because he actually talks and as of now I'd rather he be around for longer, this doesnt mean I am letting him off on the points i've mentioned).

I also keep seeing people (like Bart a few minutes ago) being an absolute butch and just go online then leave and it's annoying because I know there are things they can be replying to. For example in Bart's case I believe Evian said how it was weird that Bart didn't give any reply whatsoever after Taka said "no". Also both Taka and Evian called him out for unvoting me while saying absolutely nothing despite him being a topic of discussion.

Heya. Glad to have you here.

Firstly, I'll address this problem and fix it once and for all - I revealed that it was a disguised RVS because I waited a full in-real life day (half in-game day without the extension) for a reply, and to my disappointment I got none. Well, sure maybe I could've put more pressure of some sorts, but looking at their first post I quickly expected something BIG after the lynch, but ehh. I swear I was gonna write something here, got a discord PM, checked that and forgot what I was about write. Hit me up if I missed anything here.

Secondly, dying out is exactly what I found scummy. He came here, went off with a "bad reaction", and again went away like magic. Besides, his post seemed more pushy, while Bart seemed to know what he's doing.

Whilst we are on the topic of you apparently targetting this at Pit, I cant find a single post where you have addressed Pit's 5 or 6 questions that he asked you. Quote it for me if you have but otherwise not sure how you are telling me that was for Pit when you seemingly never responded to Pit.

Evian W. wrote:
Moving onwards, your reply to Pit has this questionable thing - you stated that you don't have the neutrality or in between behaviour which alright i agree, but then at the same time you're being neutral to Pit yourself, and then you suddenly going like "oh i understand" is something i don't appreciate much, it's really like you going for perfect townread for Pit because "you understand them".
If by neutral you mean that I never pressed Pit that would be because as of now nothing struck me as weird that requires me to press them. At the same time I am not the kind of person to be stating the obvious and saying that him reading people in detail is townie. Also, I said the "however I understand" part because I talked about how he can tell my stance on people by how I am pressing them, but following that logic there is no way he can tell my stance on those who I havent been pressing so obviously I understand where he is coming from. Your logic about how me understanding them makes them townread me is fundamentally flawed because the only thing that "understanding" would do is show the clarity of the post and that the person fully acknowledges the point, which funnily enough is not alignment indicative.

Evian W. wrote:
Taka T. wrote:My major problem with Evian is that he has been completely avoiding me since I started posting. This is a guy who is prodding people for activity early in the week, telling people to be less useless, asking people questions. He parks his vote on me. When questioned on it (by Butch), he mangles his explanation COMPLETELY and tries to explain that it was a RVS vote. His vote, as of 12 hours before deadline, was still on me.

Neutral
Big issues with this. I haven't been avoiding you. If there's some post I didn't reply to, then I probably missed something? I agree to the next three things, and then there's the question about the RVS, I don't get why you are so stuck up to believe that it wasn't an RVS. And a question as to the last line (which wasn't necessary to be there? I don't know what you're trying to convey by saying that?) - there's this hypocrisy where you're saying that it wasn't an RVS but are saying that my vote was on you as of 12 hours before deadline?
Fairly sure his point was that you kept your vote for too long to be an RVS lynch? Not quite sure how he's contradicting himself.

Evian W. wrote:
Butch C. wrote:Which is why I don't want either of us to be sent to heaven today. To me, being sent to heaven today is almost like a glorified n1 nightkill but with the ability to talk a little bit more. Which is why I dont want to be sent to heaven this early because I want more time in this game and also because I got slight confidence booster after making the right call not to vote bart (which didnt work out in the end rip). I would rather put in the effort to think about who else is town and a good heaven candidate.
I see this here, and:
Taka T. wrote:vote butch
Escapes your eyes? I don't get this - you're nodding heads over the heaven lynch being a glorified n1 nightkill, yet you just let the post go below your eyes?
umm..because it never went below my eyes? My post was after he voted me so I just expressed why I didn't want to be voted. Unless you're trying to say that I didn't press him for it, I didn't think it was scummy because my point of view of it being a glorified nk wouldn't necessarily be the same for everyone. Which is also why I didn't get what you meant by us nodding heads when it was really just me.

Evian W. wrote:
Butch C. wrote:I understand your point on how Kaiser has basically ignored everyone except Kaiser which would seem scummy. Although looking at his ISOs he did address Pit by expressing a small amount of dissatisfaction on something he said but then he says his reads make Kaiser see Pit as d1 townread. I also don't see a problem with trying to get your scumread lynched because I don't see why mafia would just tunnel Kinso and not also press on someone say Bart. In fact this post in particular was the reason why I got a townlean on Kaiser...
:? At that point, there was little possibility of the fact that a wagon other than Bart could be started. He could easily have been getting a Kinso wagon to 1. Not get into the "you lynched Bart you lynched town" wagon and 2. To get points / fake scumhunt (since that's quite possible/visible there - he literally has to show scumhunting there to fulfil his needs)
I mean while I was deciding a read for Kaiser these points definitely crossed my mind, however they didnt stick because I disagree with the very first bit. When Kaiser started against Kinso with the "something about the reaction just feels, idk off. It should be obvious from reading that Taka is just making annoying shitposts and not an actual readlist. feels wierd. FOS" The only person really going against Bart was Taka, so the wagon was never solidified at that point in time so I would have thought a scum Kaiser would push it to some extent but still go for Kinso in order to smoothly meet the two points you mentioned. I know Yaichi voted Bart too but his reasoning was literally just "bad reaction" which was being questioned (by me). I am also aware you had an FoS on Bart at the time but you had an FoS on Kaiser for the same reason so the pressure on Bart wasn't prominent.

Evian W. wrote:
Butch C. wrote:........? You're joking right? After my points against you that I still want you to answer and also Taka's points + lynch against you and all you felt like doing was "Vote Taka"??? Also the last time I checked the members list (before you posted) it said that you came online about 6 hours or so after AJ commenced heaven face. I thought it was fine because you may just be writing a long post or something, but now all it looks like is that you came online to see Taka say "Vote Butch" so you decided it'll be fine to do the same? It seems clear that you thought about voting Taka before heaven phase began because no one has actually said anything with substance as of yet which means no post would have changed your mind, so then why didnt you do that when you last came on? This makes me believe moreso that you simply did this just because you saw Taka do it...
...I'll just scrap the whole point by saying this much - you're overthinking it. No such complex thing came in my mind. Sometimes I can feel sleepy and choose not to post instead. And really, overthinking isn't the best thing here.
I knew you were gonna say that you felt sleepy, but all you would have done was "Vote Taka" which isn't exactly the most mind-intensive post. And I am fairly certain your decision to vote Taka came from ur impressions in the hell phase and not from something that was said recently (unless you thought "vote butch" was what made you vote Taka which doesnt sound right).
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Kinso D. on Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:05 am

Butch C. wrote:
Taka T. wrote:
Who do you want then?
I was hoping for others to actually talk so I can decide (eg. Kathi since she has a new sub).

Kinso D. wrote:vote taka
You must be doing this on purpose now....are you even reading my posts???

Evian W. wrote:Like I'm unsure why you think this fact so badly that what I did wasn't an RVS just because I got off after a real life day? Like let's apply logic, what else could I be trying there? Pushing them away from town on the basis of them giving a weird list of reads?
Well what I had in mind was that you could have taken the opportunity of Taka's seemingly controversial readlist for an easy way to seem as if you are proactive and helping town win. But that's not important, what's important is that as long as my points still stand, I have reason to believe you are lying about the fact your vote was a pressure vote. You seem to be trying to drop the whole argument without responding to my points which makes this even more suspicious. If the whole RVS thing is true then you should be able to knock down my points and convince me, which is why I still have reason to believe you are lying about this and you evading my points is making it more suspicious.

Evian W. wrote:As for the second content, seriously.. it was for Pit who had posted about Bart... my posts aren't that confusing i don't even know if at this point you're reading them differently..
I had another look, you were definitely replying to my post which had 2 points towards you. I asked why you had Pit as neutral while Yaichi as scumlean. Then you just randomly mentioned Bart which made no sense. Not sure what you're on about tho, there's no way that was directed to Pit. Here is the quote for reference:
Evian's reply:

Evian W. wrote:
Butch C. wrote:
Big Quote:

Evian W. wrote:Vote Taka T.

Firstly, there start. I'm not a big fan of it. Gave of random "lock"ed reads. This feels more like a forced contribution, more like "Hey I'm giving my reads early, I'm town for sure. You know that I'm town now!" I am not even sure from where did they bring that read. In the hindsight, I understand what they are doing, but I'm still up for this lynch.
From the explanations that I have from evian I understand that this was actually just a disguised RVS so to get Taka talking. However my problem here is that if you really intended this as a pressure vote, why were you so quick, as Taka said, to admit that your lynch was a disguised RVS? Taka didn't even respond so it just ruins your plan completely. It's also weird how you felt the need to include the whole hindsight thing even though it takes some of the pressure off your vote and opens the door for people (like myself) to question as to why you voted him when you appear to know his true objective. In addition to this, when Taka did blast out the massive post where he responded and gave reads on everyone, you didn't address it at all and only responded to mine and bart's posts. It's strange given that your pressure vote shows your keenness to listen to what Taka has to say and "be read further" as you said yourself. Finally you launch an early readlist which addressed Taka as "Neutral". The fact that you know Taka's true motives and truly think he is neutral is irrelevant, you told us that you made a disguised RVS in order to push Taka and give him the edge to talk (aka pressure him to talk). However you voided the pressure completely when you don't even have Taka as a scumlean. If you were indeed trying to get Taka talking via pressure then there is no reason why you would read Taka as neutral and shift the pressure off. These points collectively make me doubt whether your lynch really was a disguised RVS.

Evian W. wrote:Therefore, a readlist which has been created as of now:

Bart S. - Scumlean
Butch C. - Neutral ; D1Lean
Evian W. - Definitely town
Kaiser P. - Scum
Kathi G. - Neutral
Kinso D. - Very Wavering Neutral
Pit B. - Neutral
Taka T. - Neutral
Yaichi H. - Scumlean

Oh for clarification, D1Lean is more of my own "townlean", but extremely slight, basically that they are someone I don't want to lose day one
Something else I noticed about your readlist. You gave Yaichi a scumlean for presumably the fact he noted Bart's bad reaction, then never posted again. However Pit basically did exactly the same thing and around the same time of day. The only difference is that Pit just did an RVS while Yaichi appeared to have some sort of reason which funnily enough matches yours but without the explanation. So why is Pit neutral and Yaichi scumlean?

As to who I think should be lynched, I am still fairly undecided. I don't think a list is helpful because everyone except Taka and Evian would be in it (Evian because he actually talks and as of now I'd rather he be around for longer, this doesnt mean I am letting him off on the points i've mentioned).

I also keep seeing people (like Bart a few minutes ago) being an absolute butch and just go online then leave and it's annoying because I know there are things they can be replying to. For example in Bart's case I believe Evian said how it was weird that Bart didn't give any reply whatsoever after Taka said "no". Also both Taka and Evian called him out for unvoting me while saying absolutely nothing despite him being a topic of discussion.

Heya. Glad to have you here.

Firstly, I'll address this problem and fix it once and for all - I revealed that it was a disguised RVS because I waited a full in-real life day (half in-game day without the extension) for a reply, and to my disappointment I got none. Well, sure maybe I could've put more pressure of some sorts, but looking at their first post I quickly expected something BIG after the lynch, but ehh. I swear I was gonna write something here, got a discord PM, checked that and forgot what I was about write. Hit me up if I missed anything here.

Secondly, dying out is exactly what I found scummy. He came here, went off with a "bad reaction", and again went away like magic. Besides, his post seemed more pushy, while Bart seemed to know what he's doing.

Whilst we are on the topic of you apparently targetting this at Pit, I cant find a single post where you have addressed Pit's 5 or 6 questions that he asked you. Quote it for me if you have but otherwise not sure how you are telling me that was for Pit when you seemingly never responded to Pit.

Evian W. wrote:
Moving onwards, your reply to Pit has this questionable thing - you stated that you don't have the neutrality or in between behaviour which alright i agree, but then at the same time you're being neutral to Pit yourself, and then you suddenly going like "oh i understand" is something i don't appreciate much, it's really like you going for perfect townread for Pit because "you understand them".
If by neutral you mean that I never pressed Pit that would be because as of now nothing struck me as weird that requires me to press them. At the same time I am not the kind of person to be stating the obvious and saying that him reading people in detail is townie. Also, I said the "however I understand" part because I talked about how he can tell my stance on people by how I am pressing them, but following that logic there is no way he can tell my stance on those who I havent been pressing so obviously I understand where he is coming from. Your logic about how me understanding them makes them townread me is fundamentally flawed because the only thing that "understanding" would do is show the clarity of the post and that the person fully acknowledges the point, which funnily enough is not alignment indicative.

Evian W. wrote:
Taka T. wrote:My major problem with Evian is that he has been completely avoiding me since I started posting. This is a guy who is prodding people for activity early in the week, telling people to be less useless, asking people questions. He parks his vote on me. When questioned on it (by Butch), he mangles his explanation COMPLETELY and tries to explain that it was a RVS vote. His vote, as of 12 hours before deadline, was still on me.

Neutral
Big issues with this. I haven't been avoiding you. If there's some post I didn't reply to, then I probably missed something? I agree to the next three things, and then there's the question about the RVS, I don't get why you are so stuck up to believe that it wasn't an RVS. And a question as to the last line (which wasn't necessary to be there? I don't know what you're trying to convey by saying that?) - there's this hypocrisy where you're saying that it wasn't an RVS but are saying that my vote was on you as of 12 hours before deadline?
Fairly sure his point was that you kept your vote for too long to be an RVS lynch? Not quite sure how he's contradicting himself.

Evian W. wrote:
Butch C. wrote:Which is why I don't want either of us to be sent to heaven today. To me, being sent to heaven today is almost like a glorified n1 nightkill but with the ability to talk a little bit more. Which is why I dont want to be sent to heaven this early because I want more time in this game and also because I got slight confidence booster after making the right call not to vote bart (which didnt work out in the end rip). I would rather put in the effort to think about who else is town and a good heaven candidate.
I see this here, and:
Taka T. wrote:vote butch
Escapes your eyes? I don't get this - you're nodding heads over the heaven lynch being a glorified n1 nightkill, yet you just let the post go below your eyes?
umm..because it never went below my eyes? My post was after he voted me so I just expressed why I didn't want to be voted. Unless you're trying to say that I didn't press him for it, I didn't think it was scummy because my point of view of it being a glorified nk wouldn't necessarily be the same for everyone. Which is also why I didn't get what you meant by us nodding heads when it was really just me.

Evian W. wrote:
Butch C. wrote:I understand your point on how Kaiser has basically ignored everyone except Kaiser which would seem scummy. Although looking at his ISOs he did address Pit by expressing a small amount of dissatisfaction on something he said but then he says his reads make Kaiser see Pit as d1 townread. I also don't see a problem with trying to get your scumread lynched because I don't see why mafia would just tunnel Kinso and not also press on someone say Bart. In fact this post in particular was the reason why I got a townlean on Kaiser...
:? At that point, there was little possibility of the fact that a wagon other than Bart could be started. He could easily have been getting a Kinso wagon to 1. Not get into the "you lynched Bart you lynched town" wagon and 2. To get points / fake scumhunt (since that's quite possible/visible there - he literally has to show scumhunting there to fulfil his needs)
I mean while I was deciding a read for Kaiser these points definitely crossed my mind, however they didnt stick because I disagree with the very first bit. When Kaiser started against Kinso with the "something about the reaction just feels, idk off. It should be obvious from reading that Taka is just making annoying shitposts and not an actual readlist. feels wierd. FOS" The only person really going against Bart was Taka, so the wagon was never solidified at that point in time so I would have thought a scum Kaiser would push it to some extent but still go for Kinso in order to smoothly meet the two points you mentioned. I know Yaichi voted Bart too but his reasoning was literally just "bad reaction" which was being questioned (by me). I am also aware you had an FoS on Bart at the time but you had an FoS on Kaiser for the same reason so the pressure on Bart wasn't prominent.

Evian W. wrote:
Butch C. wrote:........? You're joking right? After my points against you that I still want you to answer and also Taka's points + lynch against you and all you felt like doing was "Vote Taka"??? Also the last time I checked the members list (before you posted) it said that you came online about 6 hours or so after AJ commenced heaven face. I thought it was fine because you may just be writing a long post or something, but now all it looks like is that you came online to see Taka say "Vote Butch" so you decided it'll be fine to do the same? It seems clear that you thought about voting Taka before heaven phase began because no one has actually said anything with substance as of yet which means no post would have changed your mind, so then why didnt you do that when you last came on? This makes me believe moreso that you simply did this just because you saw Taka do it...
...I'll just scrap the whole point by saying this much - you're overthinking it. No such complex thing came in my mind. Sometimes I can feel sleepy and choose not to post instead. And really, overthinking isn't the best thing here.
I knew you were gonna say that you felt sleepy, but all you would have done was "Vote Taka" which isn't exactly the most mind-intensive post. And I am fairly certain your decision to vote Taka came from ur impressions in the hell phase and not from something that was said recently (unless you thought "vote butch" was what made you vote Taka which doesnt sound right).

What the fuck do you want me to say to you?
You think I'm scum, con-fucking-grats, lynch me tomorrow mate.
Other than that you post fucking 15000 word essays that have absolutely no information whatsoever, so excuse me if I don't reply to those when all I read about me in them is: Kinso doesn't want to be lynched therefor he is most definitely scum
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Butch C. on Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:39 pm

Kinso D. wrote:
What the fuck do you want me to say to you?
You think I'm scum, con-fucking-grats, lynch me tomorrow mate.
Other than that you post fucking 15000 word essays that have absolutely no information whatsoever, so excuse me if I don't reply to those when all I read about me in them is: Kinso doesn't want to be lynched therefor he is most definitely scum
"absolutely no information whatsoever".....I mean that's just objectively not true tho is it.
Also idk how you managed to sum up my points as "Kinso doesn't wanna be lynched ergo scum confirmed" because if you really have been reading my posts you would know that's not what I said. It seems evident that you are just trying to twist my words. If you wanted to generalise my point it would be that, despite being one of the more active players in the game, all you have done is complain about getting lynched and not made the slightest effort to scumhunt. Gonna quote this for reference and also because I went into more depth in my read against you.
Hell Phase read on Kinso:
Kinso D.: Kinso is quite defensive and seems to be overly self-conscious about getting lynched to the point where all his posts has been him complaining about getting lynched. He says how anyone who lynches him means that they find him scum but lets be honest, everyone here has played this game enough times to know how RVS works, so to me this just sounds like he is fishing for excuses for his obsession about getting lynched. He hasn't even made a single post telling us his thoughts about the rest of the game and who he finds scum. In a way it reflects the roles of town and mafia: town are out to try and find mafia while mafia are trying not to get caught. Despite his rise in activity he hasnt been doing any of what the average town would do and is instead too worried about getting lynched. I find this strange because at the same time he is being defensive, which in other words means a desire to stay alive and keep playing the game. Now it's alright for someone to be defensive as long as they show a desire to find the mafia. But I am seeing absolutely no signs of such behaviour. Therefore I think Kinso is the scummiest (when not factoring in Evian) and is my vote for today.

I can't believe how dead this phase is... Its almost deadline and only 4/8 people actually said a word. It makes it worse when you find out that the last visit of people like Kaiser is Yesterday at 4:47 pm. It gets on my nerves because now I am starting to think Kaiser is just laying back and letting me defend for him, which is why my read on him is now slipping down to a neutral and I ain't gonna be voting him for heaven. Like I said I don't really want to be voting Taka but at this rate I can't really risk sending someone else whom I don't have a secure read on. Which leads me onto why I am reluctant to vote for Pit, although his ISO analysis have quality and he clearly put the effort to scumhunt, this can easily be coming from a really good and experienced mafia player. This uncertainty is due to the fact I haven't really been able to interact with him and also see his interactions with other people (since he literally just posted his analysis and never came back). I also want to see him continue his analysis since he only did it on 3 people in detail and then briefly for Taka. Therefore I think I'll hold on to my vote and hope that this game springs to life.
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Kaiser P. on Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:46 pm

Hihi i forgot to post i was multitasking.
As it stands right now, I think Pit is our best option for heaven. His reads come from a town POV, but he doesnt have the activity to properly push for scum. What he can do is read over the game when it comes to judgement day, and make an accurate read from that.

Vote Pit B.

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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Kaiser P. on Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:55 pm

And tunneling. d1 reads are hard to make, and I dont want to throw out reads that im uncertain on. So i gave quick thoughts on anyone i was able to make any sort of read on (Pit and Butch) but Kinso i was able to make a pretty strong read on, so i focused on that. His further posts have made me sr stronger. Dismissing Butches points as 'no information' so you dont need to respond to them.

Im still unsure on Evian, and not sure what makes him scummy to y'all. he's not a townread but there are much better options for getting scum
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Butch C. on Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:31 pm

Kaiser P. wrote:And tunneling. d1 reads are hard to make, and I dont want to throw out reads that im uncertain on. So i gave quick thoughts on anyone i was able to make any sort of read on (Pit and Butch) but Kinso i was able to make a pretty strong read on, so i focused on that. His further posts have made me sr stronger. Dismissing Butches points as 'no information' so you dont need to respond to them.

Im still unsure on Evian, and not sure what makes him scummy to y'all. he's not a townread but there are much better options for getting scum

I found your brief read on pit
Kaiser P. wrote:
Pit B. wrote:Sorry for the inactivity, a post on all my thoughts will be coming shortly.

Also, to clarify, we are in Hell phase right?
That last bit feels like he's asking a question for the sake of asking questions. If you read the thread you will see people voting for scumreads so..
However his later readlists give me a d1 tr on him
but I couldn't seem to find your one on me. The only other thing I saw is "I just missed a page where Taka is being useful and not annoying" but thats not really a read. Can you clarify which one you mean?

Alright so now that it's day 2 what are your reads on everyone else other than Kinso?
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Kaiser P. on Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:05 pm

oh maybe I didnt mention it. I had you as a day 1 TR just for the contributions and showing thinking in posts. That read has stayed so far.

Yachi and Kathi havent been exisiting
Evian i already send im unsure
Taka is a townread

thats literally everyone i havent mentioned.
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Kinso D. on Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:35 am

How am I supposed to scumhunt when only 3 people are posting anything and one of them is obviously scum.
Seems like I am universally scumread by everyone active in this game, so when you send me to hell tomorrow, remember that Kaiser is mafia. That is my main read.
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Butch C. on Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:40 am

Kaiser P. wrote:oh maybe I didnt mention it. I had you as a day 1 TR just for the contributions and showing thinking in posts. That read has stayed so far.

Yachi and Kathi havent been exisiting
Evian i already send im unsure
Taka is a townread

thats literally everyone i havent mentioned.
Can you elaborate on your evian read? You said previously that he isnt a townread but there are better options for scum. So what makes him not a townread but at the same time why do you think he isn't the mafia?

Kinso D. wrote:How am I supposed to scumhunt when only 3 people are posting anything and one of them is obviously scum.
Seems like I am universally scumread by everyone active in this game, so when you send me to hell tomorrow, remember that Kaiser is mafia. That is my main read.
In the hell phase everyone except Kathi posted something, so just like most of us, you could have at least made an effort to scumhunt. Also you just said "one of them is obviously scum", so why are you not telling us this until I have to ask you? So anyway can you explain your read against Kaiser since just saying "Kaiser is mafia" aint gonna be convincing anyone.

Also Kaiser you're saying you still have an SR on Kinso right? And that you've been going at him hell phase because of this. But from what I can see, the last post that was made in your quarrel with Kinso is this:
Kinso D. wrote:
Kaiser P. wrote:
Kinso D. wrote:
Bart S. wrote:
Kinso D. wrote:Also this pit guy seems to have lynched me and just hasn't appeared since.

Why have you cared so much about one lynch. This is near all that you have said today and you don't even have plur afaik.

If someone lynches me, that means they think I'm scum. I'd like to know why that is and prove them wrong regardless of if I have plurality or not.
You should not only care about the game if you're about to die. That attitude makes games inactive.

You werent defending yourself though. You were Pushing someone who was lynching you, mostly because they lynched you :/

1- Show me where exactly I pushed him. I didn't
2- I would have had the same reaction had they lynched someone else and then disappeared
It's quite clear that Kinso has asked you to prove the fact that he pushed Pit, which if you couldn't do then your point against him would be shot down. However you seem to have just ignored this yet still proceed to say that you have a strong SR on Kinso. If its true that you have a strong SR on Kinso and believe he is the mafia, then why have you stopped pressing him and why haven't you proven your points against him?

I've literally been seeing Taka and Evian come online at least once everyday since Monday and not post anything which is ticking me off rn because even if they don't have anything to say in terms of scumhunting and the game in general, they should at least be able to respond to the points against them/prove points that have been challenged.
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Taka T. on Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:00 pm

I've honestly made a conscious decision to step back from the thread, but since I've been summoned I guess I'll post. The problem with inactive games like this from my personal experience is that sometimes I will talk too much, and then the whole thread revolves around me reading people and them townreading me, and then I dont' actually have material to do analysis with. Also the only thing I could possibly have responded to is Evian, and I was genuinely just waiting for his response to you.

We have three days to decide on a wagon. I am not voting Evian, Kaiser, Kathi, Kinso, or Yaichi today because I do not have townreads on them. Pit has not posted this phase. This literally leaves me and Butch. I am more than happy to send butch, and I am even happier to send me because butch has expressed a desire to stay. I'll go over everything that's happened in this phase that I haven't responded to yet.

Kinso has a wordless vote on me. It doesn't inspire me with confidence, but I can imagine it had something to do with my defense of him yesterday. Tangentially related, in response to Butch's note on Kinso, I don't know if you're looking at the same ISO I am. There are several messages where Kinso is reaching out to Pit who does not respond to him.

"Also this pit guy seems to have lynched me and just hasn't appeared since."
"Also is there any reason you're lynching me, that's the second person on me who hasn't provided an explanation and I'd really like to know why."
'If someone lynches me, that means they think I'm scum. I'd like to know why that is and prove them wrong regardless of if I have plurality or not. "

This is what I meant when I said
"I don't like a Kinso lynch for a few reasons. I actually really like his willingness to engage with pit who voted him. This is in direct contrast with Bart, who seems to hope that people who vote him just eventually forget about his existence. This is a big big big townmarker for me and I think some credence needs to be given to my read here."

So there's that, I guess. After that Evian posted and at the time I couldn't think of anything to say in addition to Butch's post (We are asking about RVS intention because I think you were lying about your reason for sticking your vote on me, it's scummy to keep your vote on a RVS target until immediately before deadline, I thought you were avoiding me because in my first wall I had like a big section dedicated to you and you didn't respond to it ever, your vote on me doesn't make sense, etc)

Kaiser is alive again, I think it's super weird that he voted pit but honestly I could use some variety in choices. That being said, I have no idea how he has a stronger read on pit who has done 4 ISO's over his read on butch or me. I still don't like his read on Kinso.

Yaichi, Kathi, Pit have not posted this cycle and I have nothing to say to nothing.
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Taka T. on Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:01 pm

I'll be around for the next 8 or so hours to chat if any of you want.
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Kaiser P. on Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:31 pm

Butch C. wrote:
Kaiser P. wrote:oh maybe I didnt mention it. I had you as a day 1 TR just for the contributions and showing thinking in posts. That read has stayed so far.

Yachi and Kathi havent been exisiting
Evian i already send im unsure
Taka is a townread

thats literally everyone i havent mentioned.
Can you elaborate on your evian read? You said previously that he isnt a townread but there are better options for scum. So what makes him not a townread but at the same time why do you think he isn't the mafia?

Kinso D. wrote:How am I supposed to scumhunt when only 3 people are posting anything and one of them is obviously scum.
Seems like I am universally scumread by everyone active in this game, so when you send me to hell tomorrow, remember that Kaiser is mafia. That is my main read.
In the hell phase everyone except Kathi posted something, so just like most of us, you could have at least made an effort to scumhunt. Also you just said "one of them is obviously scum", so why are you not telling us this until I have to ask you? So anyway can you explain your read against Kaiser since just saying "Kaiser is mafia" aint gonna be convincing anyone.

Also Kaiser you're saying you still have an SR on Kinso right? And that you've been going at him hell phase because of this. But from what I can see, the last post that was made in your quarrel with Kinso is this:
Kinso D. wrote:
Kaiser P. wrote:
Kinso D. wrote:
Bart S. wrote:
Kinso D. wrote:Also this pit guy seems to have lynched me and just hasn't appeared since.

Why have you cared so much about one lynch. This is near all that you have said today and you don't even have plur afaik.

If someone lynches me, that means they think I'm scum. I'd like to know why that is and prove them wrong regardless of if I have plurality or not.
You should not only care about the game if you're about to die. That attitude makes games inactive.

You werent defending yourself though. You were Pushing someone who was lynching you, mostly because they lynched you :/

1- Show me where exactly I pushed him. I didn't
2- I would have had the same reaction had they lynched someone else and then disappeared
It's quite clear that Kinso has asked you to prove the fact that he pushed Pit, which if you couldn't do then your point against him would be shot down. However you seem to have just ignored this yet still proceed to say that you have a strong SR on Kinso. If its true that you have a strong SR on Kinso and believe he is the mafia, then why have you stopped pressing him and why haven't you proven your points against him?

I've literally been seeing Taka and Evian come online at least once everyday since Monday and not post anything which is ticking me off rn because even if they don't have anything to say in terms of scumhunting and the game in general, they should at least be able to respond to the points against them/prove points that have been challenged.

Evian Read - I guess i made it too complicated. Im Null rn. Im not getting scum vibes from his post, but not town ones either


Kinso push - I was unable to be active for long periods of time in the second half of d1, and couldnt make the posts i wish i could. Maybe the word 'push' was wrong, but he certainly called him out for doing something that didnt require calling out. He seems obsessed with people lynching him and has me as hard scum because I lynched him as far as i can see. He hasnt made any effort to contribute towards putting someone to heaven either, unless voting and then not mentioning his vote counts, and its urking me
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Butch C. on Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:06 pm

Taka T. wrote:Tangentially related, in response to Butch's note on Kinso, I don't know if you're looking at the same ISO I am. There are several messages where Kinso is reaching out to Pit who does not respond to him.

"Also this pit guy seems to have lynched me and just hasn't appeared since."
"Also is there any reason you're lynching me, that's the second person on me who hasn't provided an explanation and I'd really like to know why."
'If someone lynches me, that means they think I'm scum. I'd like to know why that is and prove them wrong regardless of if I have plurality or not. "

This is what I meant when I said
"I don't like a Kinso lynch for a few reasons. I actually really like his willingness to engage with pit who voted him. This is in direct contrast with Bart, who seems to hope that people who vote him just eventually forget about his existence. This is a big big big townmarker for me and I think some credence needs to be given to my read here."
We have been reading the same ISOs but it seems we judged the posts in different ways. To me, evidence to show "willingness to engage with Pit" would be him directly asking Pit for anything really in order for them to engage. The post where I truly saw that was the one asking for Pit's reason/checking whether it was an RVS, and actually I guess the one where he says how we wants to prove Pit wrong is an effort of trying to engage despite it not being directly addressed to Pit. Other than that, "Also this pit guy seems to have lynched me and just hasn't appeared since." is really just a complaint and not actually trying to engage. "Also is there any reason you're lynching me, that's the second person on me who hasn't provided an explanation and I'd really like to know why." That was addressed to Kaiser anyway so theres no sign of any effort to engage with Pit.
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

Post by Kinso D. on Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:20 pm

I voted the person I'm seeing as town the most. I don't have any great townreads yet so I might as well push someone that I could agree on to go to heaven.
I still don't see what the major issue with me not wanting to be lynched for no reason is, and how it's indicative of me being scum.
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Re: Game 34: Purgatory

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