Game 30: Separated Scum

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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by O O. on Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:12 pm

guys, come on... we're so close to winning and now is NOT the time to stop posting!

in all honesty as I compiled the reasons to lynch marilyn and titus i began to see why nicolette wants to lynch titus over marilyn.

he's done a good amount of scummy things, some of which are pretty bad. I think that in titus' case, several of the things (miller theory, forcedness, eod presence) can be attributed to playstyle, but then you've gotta wonder whether these things come from a town or mafia train of thought. I think that many of these make sense to be coming from mafia, which does make him look worse imo. from interacting with him i've gotten a strong townread which is likely why i haven't even considered a lot of these points to the extent that I have now.

that's not to say that I don't believe in my case on marilyn, though. I still think that there are several strong points that have been conceded/not talked about very much wrt her and although there are points i've conceded those tend to be the weaker ones that rest on theory or have circumstantial evidence. From interacting with her i don't get the same townie feel that I get from titus, which is honestly not that great of a way to differentiate the two but its pushing me more than it maybe should. perhaps im suffering from tunnel vision but the same thing that led me to lynch yuzo over titus is making me want to lynch marilyn over titus again; i can see the points against titus but i have a good town gutread on him and thats making me very hesitant to lynch him
maybe titus is scum and i just dont want to admit that my gutreads are wrong given that they tend to be correct most of the time. i dont really know.

im just kinda rambling at this point because nobody's posting anything and i have nothing to talk about but please ask me questions or something about what i've said, or ask me to rephrase things if it was incoherent etc
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by O O. on Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:13 pm

aj requesting an extended deadline because half the game hasnt been online for two days and id really prefer if we could have some more time to discuss instead of having dl tomorrow, given that i'll be away (on phone) at deadline
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by O O. on Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:54 am

well, i'm heading off for tonight. hopefully people come on before deadline or i'll be disappointed.
i'll be checking back around when dl hits but likely wont be able to post anything until then
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Marilyn M. on Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:43 am

I agree that an extend would be good. It just makes the game boring if Titus is lynched because only me and O.O came online

O.O, if you were forced to lynch within 30 seconds of reading this, who would you place your vote on?
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Nicolette D. on Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:27 pm

i've been really busy irl this past week, and I haven't had any time to put into this game, and i'm sorry. I've read back up to the end of day 3 though; i'm exhausted, and i have only 30 minutes left, so i'm typing this up before I finish reading (i wouldn't be able to make this post otherwise, sorry.)
A lot of my reading back was solely to affirm my townread on O. O. I was initially planning on lynching Marilyn today, because I wanted to see how O. O. would act in a lylo with me and their gut tr as the only other players alive; however, that point became moot when O. O. posted saying that he could see both Marilyn and Titus as scum, with the only difference being that they gutread Titus as town over Marilyn. (I think it's safe to assume that O. O. would push Titus over me in said lylo situation, with maybe a few questions to pressure me to confirm their townread on me, i guess?)
Here are my reasons to townread O. O. - I have quite a few of them that I haven't shared with you guys yet.
First is facilitating the plurshift off Titus to Yuzo. I racked my brain to find reasons to do this, and the only reason I could find were if they found hidden-miller Titus as scum, and thought they were their final partner (as Yuzo hadn't flipped scum yet), and wanted to keep them alive. This possibility is ridiculously low though, and I don't think should be taken into account. I also considered they may have wanted to keep someone who sees them in a favorable light, but there were plenty of other players that at read them as neutral or better at that point, myself included.
Marilyn posted earlier, when they were about to get lynched in d4, that town almost basically won since O. O. and I are universally townread at this point. When she posted this, I realized that O. O. had never tried to bring this point up and win me over, and call for an easy win, and I townread O. O. heavily for that. A simple "well we basically win by lynching everyone except myself and nicolette" post would've been so easy to make, especially since I've been clear in expressing my townread on them from early on - and honestly, I would've ridden along with it too, and lynched people in order accordingly. The fact that they didn't do so, and instead has actively read back and made analyses there, makes me townread them a lot.
Speaking of which, O. O. has always had their own independent reads, and was never afraid of disagreeing with me (re. reads on titus/marilyn etc.) and expressing their own views on the situation. The times they did agree with me (like when they read my followup argument against Teaque) felt genuine to me, and not just an excuse to shift plurality.
I had a few other reasons for townreading O. O., but I can't remember them at the moment, and i have no time. If there is another day, I'll be sure to express as such there; hopefully I'll have more time than I do for today.
I hope this answers Titus's question of who i would lynch between Marilyn and O. O. in a potential lylo situation? But i honestly don't understand the point of asking such a question in the first place - were you trying to arouse suspicion on me and get me lynched?

Now for a few comments upon reading back, in no particular order:
I can confirm now that Marilyn's readlist that you guys were scrutinizing was posted very early in d2, before I made any relevant post (as indicated in their read on me then).
I also read back on O. O.'s argument against Marilyn, and I do definitely see hypocrisy on Marilyn's part when it comes to the amount of filler posts; however, I think it's very easy to miss your own filler posts as both scum and town, and still go after other people's filler, if that makes sense. I also do think that my townread on Marilyn was just like your townread on Titus - a gut townread at best. However, in my opinion, Titus has done a myriad of scummy actions (last end of day shenanigans, reaction to pressure, "i'm ready to fight marilyn" etc) that push them as objectively scummier in my opinion. I would also like to add that they haven't done shit today to convince me that they're town over Marilyn, just that they're less scummy? Therefore, I will lynch titus v.
I'm sure I've missed a lot of things here, but I'll get back to them if Titus flips town.
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Marilyn M. on Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:03 pm

Well, deadline is in an hour and AJ said he wasn't extending so, I'm keeping my lynch because nobody has said anything to convince me otherwise. Au revoir
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by O O. on Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:40 pm

Hello it is me
I am on my phone

To answer your question, Marilyn: lynch Marilyn M
Ultimately nothing's really happened today that would change my opinion. I feel that Titus is town and that you are the final scum.
That being said, this vote is mostly symbolic since I doubt I'll convince Nicolette to switch (and even if I would, she probably won't come online to switch anyways)
Effectively I think my giyread plus the way he handled his almost lynch (before I saved him) make me think he's town. @nicolette: I think his question of what you would do in a me you Marilyn lylo is coming from a town Titus who sees his lynch as inevitable and wants to know your thoughts do that he could pitch in his own.
More coming in a bit I've gotta do something
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by O O. on Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:53 pm

Had we gone to a Titus Nicolette me lylo I would have questioned Nicolette on several things that I did not like (most of these were answered unintentionally in her latest post) and likely lynched Titus unless earth shattering info came out that made Nicolette seem like likely scum.
Titus' play today has been extremely poor, especially considering that he promised a lot of things at the start of the day and during the previous one. It can't really be helped, though.
Effectively one of the reasons I've been willing to dismiss titus's shenanigans to the extent that I have is because of the way he reached near death - that tends to be the most genuine for everyone and his reaction was o push town to change their thought process and to ask people what their plans for the future were after a town!totud lynch
I suppose it's my fault for not restating those points sooner but so be it.

If you guys wanted to know what my questions for Nicolette were it was why she ignored my questions re Marilyn's argument and who she'd vote for in a me Marilyn an her lylo along with one other thing that I unfortunately cannot remember right now

Deadline is in a bit more than 5 minutes so eyes to hoping I'm wrong, I guess
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Marilyn M. on Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:00 pm

I'm not letting you get the final post so I'm posting
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by O O. on Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:01 pm

smh
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Marilyn M. on Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:01 pm

Shit no
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by O O. on Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:02 pm

I'm denying your attempted townslip
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by ajhockeystar on Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:02 pm

Votecount 5.2
******************************

Titus V.(2)- Marilyn M., Nicolette D.
Marilyn M.(1)- O O.
O O.(0)-
Nicolette D.(0)-
Not Voting(1)- Titus V.
******************************
There are 4 alive so it takes 3 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Friday the 21st at 9pm EST.

Titus V. was lynched.

he was the...:
Vanilla Townie

Night 5 Commence! Deadline is the 23rd at 9pm EST or earlier if I get the action in.
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Titus V. on Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:48 pm

I was extremely busy over the past few days so sorry that I did not do anything Sad but I wasn't gonna survive anyways so yeah. This game was really fun!!! Thanks for the memories <3 Sorry if this post seems forced (Ha!). It was fun reading your theories.
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Titus V. on Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:54 pm

And good luck town!!!
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by ajhockeystar on Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:26 pm

Day 6 Commence!

Votecount 6.0
******************************

Marilyn M.(0)-
O O.(0)-
Nicolette D.(0)-
Not Voting(3)- Marilyn M., Nicolette D., O O.
******************************
There are 3 alive so it takes 2 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Wednesday the 26th at 9pm EST.
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Marilyn M. on Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:14 am

wow
I'm literally SO CONFUSED. whoever is scum deserves a serious pat on the back. I have so many thoughts, mainly wtf, that are whirling through my head and Idk what to do
I'm just going to go with what my gut is telling me to do
lynch O.O
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Nicolette D. on Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:24 am

i'm not qhing; i'm town. oo please cross
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Nicolette D. on Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:24 am

and state your cases against each other one last time
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by O O. on Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:48 pm

I feel like a broken record

O O. wrote:
I’ve said it before but i’ll say it again. Yes,  Marilyn’s defense of the unlynch pressure was good (mostly because I don’t think she actually did anything wrong, nor was it really scummy). Yes, she’s been incredibly active and has pushed a scumread. With both of those in mind, however, there are a few reasons that I think marilyn is scum.
For one, I think her interactions with the other scum (although more yuzo than linda) have been in a way that makes her look worse; especially with yuzo saying things that could be used in her defense. Next, her argument against me was absolutely terrible. She tried to imply that most of my posts were useless and then cherrypicked from my content to push that narrative. When she got called out, she ended that discussion, never actually responded to my question/statement, and moved on to a new read. Her argument was also full of hypocrisy, as she had as many or more filler posts as I did, and this has apparently also been the case when she was pushing Titus (at least I remember him noting something hypocritical that Marilyn was doing). She also looked at things in a black-and-white way: she scumread me for answering questions, and when I asked she commented that this was because they were fairly obvious and thus didn’t deserve towncred. That’s a really harmful town way to look at things / common mafia mistake, as not everything is either good or bad (although too much of pure neutral is really bad). Assuming that everything must fit into one of those two categories is a way to make an excuse for or create a poor argument around scumreading someone. Finally, I don’t think she actually did anything yesterday aside from tunnel Titus and then say she wouldn’t be very active for a while (correct me if i’m wrong on this one, because I just don’t remember anything else).

Alright that was a good amount of stuff, so ill take any and all questions/comments you do and should have!

O O. wrote:
arguments to lynch marilyn: filler, built poor arguments w/ cherrypicking and hypocrisy, associations with yuzo, ignoring/skirting around questions, looking at things in black-and-white, not done much overall aside from defending self/pushing titus (lynching teaque doesnt count, afaik she lynched him because he was a wildcard??? and then scumread titus more while simultaneously pushing a narrative of teaque as scum which i still cant wrap my head around)
thats just my late-night restating just in case i managed to miss anything. i struck out the things that i feel marilyn adequately defended herself from.
I would add her lynch on teaque to scummy things though because iirc she had no real reason to lynch teaque (aside from self-preservation) but tried to pass it off as her having a valid reason to lynch him.

Lynch Marilyn M.

pre-emptively answering the eod stuff: marilyn put herself in a bad situation with lylo with two people she strongly townread, so what I saw at eod yesterday looked to me like an attempt to gain towncred by pretending to think that the game was over, in hopes that it could prevent her lynch the next day. I saw through it and called it out, but note i'm not scumreading her for it but just saying it doesn't make her look any more townie.
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Nicolette D. on Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:57 pm

ok i said i was gonna wait for explanations from both people but like
what kind of town player instalynches in lylo over a gut feeling
i've cited my reasons for locktowning o.o already, and they've also convinced me that marilyn is scummier and they're townier. if oo turns out to be scum, hats off to them. lynch marilyn m.
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Nicolette D. on Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:03 pm

im spamming refresh rn to see if aj has posted yet
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by O O. on Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:06 pm

ill spam him too
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by ajhockeystar on Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:15 pm

Votecount 6.1
******************************

Marilyn M.(2)- O O., Nicolette D. HAMMER!
O O.(1)- Marilyn M.
Nicolette D.(0)-
Not Voting(0)-
******************************
There are 3 alive so it takes 2 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Wednesday the 26th at 9pm EST.

Marilyn M. was lynched.

she was the...:
Vanilla Townie

Which means that O O., the Traitor Cop, along with deceased partners Yuzo K. and Linda G., win!

GGs to all!
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Titus V. on Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:15 pm

Soo close yet so far away.
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

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