Game 30: Separated Scum

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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by O O. on Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:51 pm

Post 4: Reads (from town>scum)!

Nicolette: I’ve re-read this entire topic like 4-5 times now, and i’ve gotta say: I really can’t find much that would indicate Nicolette is scum. From interacting with her I get a strong town feel, from looking through the thread there are very very few things that look scummy whatsoever, and her pushes have been on point. Only big issue with Nicolette that I can think of is that she said Linda was obviously scum and she wanted to pressure her, but she never actually lynched Linda (I believe it was just Hiroki, Marilyn, and Yuzo).

Titus: I’ve got a really strong gut townread on titus, but reading through his posts makes me really unsure about whether he’s town or not. There are a lot of points brought up against him that I think are valid, but from interacting with him he gives off a very strong town vibe. Yes, the things like the miller claim, his extremely poor reaction to pressure, and that one godawful post make him look bad, but him encouraging town to think about future lynch options should he be mis(?)lynched, actually useful setup spec/things to look for that mafia could do, and overall interactions with me make me feel like he’s town. So it’s kind of a mixed bag but i’m inclined to lean townie here.

Teaque: he’s been flying under the radar, that’s for certain. Looking at his posts don’t give me a scum vibe, but they don’t give a town vibe either. There are a couple things i’d like to know about him that I talked about in my previous post, and i’d also like his opinion on the entirety of Day 2 since he basically disappeared after the start of the day. If what Titus says about Teaque lurking during all of day 2 is true, that also looks pretty bad on him. Teaque could potentially be scum and if I didn’t feel like there were several things pointing to marilyn being scum I would definitely be going after him more.

Marilyn:
O O. wrote:
(marilyn evidence of hypocrisy/bad argument/lynch here)
Other people on my radar are Linda for her excessive tunneling + bad/opinionated argument + things hiroki brought up about her (although i dont want her to be lynched today unless absolutely necessary because she can't make it and I greatly dislike lynching people who can't defend themselves) and Yuzo for not really bringing much to the table (he's pretty much done everything that marilyn is faulting me for). I don't think yuzo's ignored anything that's been asked of him yet though so that's probably my weakest and just a scumread solely because he hasn't posted very many new things / theres no real indication of his opinion on people
I’ve been 2 for 2, and I think going 3 for 3 sounds really nice!
Lynch Marilyn M.
I’ve said it before but i’ll say it again. Yes, Marilyn’s defense of the unlynch pressure was good (mostly because I don’t think she actually did anything wrong, nor was it really scummy). Yes, she’s been incredibly active and has pushed a scumread. With both of those in mind, however, there are a few reasons that I think marilyn is scum.
For one, I think her interactions with the other scum (although more yuzo than linda) have been in a way that makes her look worse; especially with yuzo saying things that could be used in her defense. Next, her argument against me was absolutely terrible. She tried to imply that most of my posts were useless and then cherrypicked from my content to push that narrative. When she got called out, she ended that discussion, never actually responded to my question/statement, and moved on to a new read. Her argument was also full of hypocrisy, as she had as many or more filler posts as I did, and this has apparently also been the case when she was pushing Titus (at least I remember him noting something hypocritical that Marilyn was doing). She also looked at things in a black-and-white way: she scumread me for answering questions, and when I asked she commented that this was because they were fairly obvious and thus didn’t deserve towncred. That’s a really harmful town way to look at things / common mafia mistake, as not everything is either good or bad (although too much of pure neutral is really bad). Assuming that everything must fit into one of those two categories is a way to make an excuse for or create a poor argument around scumreading someone. Finally, I don’t think she actually did anything yesterday aside from tunnel Titus and then say she wouldn’t be very active for a while (correct me if i’m wrong on this one, because I just don’t remember anything else).

Alright that was a good amount of stuff, so ill take any and all questions/comments you do and should have!
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Marilyn M. on Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:02 am

I have a few things I want to reply to, but I'll start
With your read on me because I feel like defending myself is the most important step
My read on you was AWFUL. I admit it. You can use that to justify your lynch.
As far as the rest of it goes, the thing Titus called me out on was when I called HIM a hypocrite. He then called me a hypocrite because I was a hypocrite when reading you. Aside from that he really didn't have a defence to what I said
As far as Yuzo's interactions with me, It isn't exactly anything I can defend as it was Yuzo making the posts. I will read these posts and get back to you about it.
As far as yesterday is concerned, you have a pretty horrible argument, as the same can be said about others

Nicolette yesterday gave opinions on everything pretty much, and isn't guilty
Titus just tried to defend himself then had like a mental breakdown about being lynched
Teaque did nothing at all lol
And you weren't guilty either
So really, that argument can be used against myself, Titus, or Teaque

I'll answer Titus's question in extra detail since apparently that's what he wanted
If you flipped scum yesterday, I would have lynched Yuzo/O.O at the time. If you flipped scum today, I would go after Teaque. Yuzo is dead, and having read O.Os four part thing I refuse to believe that scum would put the effort in to reread everything, provide ANOTHER readslist, and provide thoughts on the whole game

If you flipped town yesterday, I would have gone for Yuzo+O.O, but O.O would have changed to Teaque based on what I just said.



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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Marilyn M. on Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:14 am

"Ignoring the last second stuff, teaque has 10 posts, yuzo had 27, and I had 47. With almost 5 times the number of teaque’s posts, and a bit more than 5/3 of yuzo’s posts, if the reasoning to lynch them is around the same as lynching me, you should DEFINITELY be lynching them. The implication you’ve made there is that they have been as scummy as me despite posting less content. That means that overall, their posts are scummier."

What???
This legit makes no sense to me. You are saying that they are scummier than you because they posted less? Now that I've seen these 4 posts you made, I would certainly lynch Teaque over you, but that reasoning just makes 0 sense

Aside from that, I really don't understand your gut read as town on Titus. You call him out for so many things and you claim a lot of his posts feel 'off' but then say you have a gut read as town on him.
It honestly feels like you just really want to lynch me, and can't find a reason to not lynch Titus, so you just kinda gutread him
I don't nessicarily think you are scum because of it, I just don't understand why. Your only valid reasons for lynching me are that I had a bad read on you, which I get why you scumread me for, and when I 'cherry picked' I was just going for everything that wasn't big contributions, which I shouldn't have done. Your other valid reason is the Yuzo thing, which, having read it, I do see where you are coming from. The only thing I can say to this is that it falls under my miller theory with Titus.

you did, however, put some real thought into what you typed. You read back, and took, what I saw, as an unbiased view of the entire game, which I really appreciate

I do still believe Titus is the best lynch for today so I will lynch Titus
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Marilyn M. on Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:20 am

In your read of Titus you talk about him looking at future lynch options etc.

When I see those posts, to me it seemed like he was doing the scum thing of posting a 'im gonna die but I can still be saved so I'm gonna say a 'woo town is best' thing and act like I REALLY care about town winning so they unlynch me'
It might just be me being biased since I sr Titus but that is how it came across to me

Also something that should be noted is that Teaque WAS here at night
and Victor too, wtf rssp1
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Teaque Q. on Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:16 pm

Going to respond to O O.'s points here because I have the time to.

O O. wrote:Teaque: he’s been flying under the radar, that’s for certain. Looking at his posts don’t give me a scum vibe, but they don’t give a town vibe either. There are a couple things i’d like to know about him that I talked about in my previous post, and i’d also like his opinion on the entirety of Day 2 since he basically disappeared after the start of the day. If what Titus says about Teaque lurking during all of day 2 is true, that also looks pretty bad on him. Teaque could potentially be scum and if I didn’t feel like there were several things pointing to marilyn being scum I would definitely be going after him more.


...The hell is Titus talking about...? I didn't visit the site during the latter half of day 2 until around deadline. Now, onto the rest of your case

O O. wrote:Post 3: looking through everything once more and seeing if anything new catches my eye
Teaque Q. wrote:
Linda's still a town read, starting off extremely strong and explaining reads quite well. 35-65 scum-town
Titus is neutral town, He's extremely helpful to town, but... he never follows his advice? He asks everyone for read posts but doesn't try to start off and make one of his own.
This makes me think Teaque could potentially have investigated Linda n1, if he’s scum. Either that or he didn’t really take the time to read linda’s argument in full.
Not too sure why teaque doesn’t try and push titus for being hypocritical since (if true) that’s a fairly scummy trait.

The first part is pure conjecture and I'm not counting it as an argument, moreso a wrong assumption. The secondary part is valid so, here we go! At that time, I personally thought Linda's arguments were decently convincing, and it was also before holes were poked in her argument. I didn't try and push Titus for being hypocritical at that point because he did respond to it, and explained it away fine at that point.

O O. wrote:
Teaque Q. wrote:
Since coming back, Nicolette has sent a myriad of posts that really give off a townie vibe, and it seems she's just generally trying to scumhunt. However, her lack of activity harms that credibility, but not by that much. As such, I'm going with a 45-55 Town read here.
He also scumreads lila with one of the reasons being a lack of activity here, which is interesting. I think that even considering activity/inactivity as a point that could change someone’s viability as town/scum is not a townsided thing to do, unless it’s day 1. Granted, it doesn’t seem to have very much of an effect on his reads in this post so i’m inclined to give teaque a pass for it (i still think it’s important enough to point out, though).

You say this, but this contradicts your earlier post "Ignoring the last second stuff, teaque has 10 posts, yuzo had 27, and I had 47. With almost 5 times the number of teaque’s posts, and a bit more than 5/3 of yuzo’s posts, if the reasoning to lynch them is around the same as lynching me, you should DEFINITELY be lynching them. The implication you’ve made there is that they have been as scummy as me despite posting less content. That means that overall, their posts are scummier" Where you use our Post Counts as a sign of activity and defend yourself. and "considering activity/inactivity as a point that could change someone’s viability as town/scum is not a townsided thing to do" - O O.

O O. wrote:
Teaque Q. wrote:
Just looking at the evidence, Titus would be obvious lynch today, being Mr. perfect to Linda, but then we delve in to the is she making her partner that obvious or not? The secondary option with this logic would be me, but I find it more likely that she tried to get me on her side so I wouldn't go back to my gutread on her (which worked, unfortunately.)

It could also be O O. but seeing how he's the only one who's analyzed the evidence so far, I'm going to put his scumread in the backburner for now

Mostly, I'm feeling a read that has been stated before: Marilyn + Titus. Neither of them could've figured known that Linda was mafia, but knew each other, and Marilyn followed town's lynch; hoping for extra towncred. Titus was ok with Linda dying because she didn't immediately jump out as his possible partner, and didn't attempt to last minute change otherwise, or just because it was pointless.

As such, I will Lynch Titus because it's either him or Marilyn and either lynch works to be honest.

Titus and Marilyn have been explained already, O O. has been the only one doing useful analytical posts today, and his other posts are actually pretty good, I was just kind of unfair to him in the fact that I didn't exactly acknowledge their content outside of the defense. Nicolette is just useful in bursts and I find her reads quite townie.

What immediately seems strange to me from this post is how quickly Teaque lynches Titus. Normally, teaque’s play has been fairly careful, especially when it comes to lynches, so seeing him suddenly switch that comes off as weird to me.
He also townreads me pretty much just for having good content, which as i’ve said before, is not the way to go, especially when the person you’re talking about has posted a lot of things and interacted with most everyone itg.

Mostly just filler until you get down the second half, which is like "wow liked content: read is bad" and to that I say: If I saw anything that felt wrong in those recent posts, I would have commented on it, and added it into my reads

Marilyn M. wrote:
Also something that should be noted is that Teaque WAS here at night

Wow, you caught me, I was online!

Now, O O. you asked me to respond about Day 2, but what do you want me to say really; We lynched Mafia that's good, but we had 2 more to go from that point, and the mafia lynched was my town read so my reads were bad, hence why I updated them the next day.






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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Titus V. on Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:16 pm

O O. wrote:

Titus V. wrote:
2) I still don't understand what you mean I'm lazy.
What i said was that townreading someone solely for having good content is the play of lazy town or scum. Lazy town because they don’t want to read the content and are fine with just townreading them for it, and lazy/regular scum because (see lazy town) or they don’t want to try and pick a fight with someone who is pushing out that much content because they’d likely lose. That’s what marilyn was talking about.

I am pretty sure I explained this plenty of times why I town read Nicolette. The fact that Yuzo flipped mafia further proves my point: why should she target Yuzo specifically when I was an easier push? It just doesn't make sense from a mafia perspective.

Titus V. wrote:I can't say I am happy about the reactions by players so far nor the activities or some people like Teaque who came online frequently but never said anything or Yuzo who still hasn't said anything.
If teaque has been lurking that actually looks a ton worse on him, especially if he’s the last scum and thought you were town, and then didn’t try to change the lynch because it would help him out.

Teaque said he wasn't online, but I could have sworn I saw him came online. In any case, not reacting to what happened yesterday isn't good.

Titus V. wrote:
I shall spend the last amount of time in this game to finish my thoughts on OO. Even then I am not sure if anyone will come online by deadline. I guess it will be useful at least.
You’ve got some time now, let’s hear it.

I could do that, but from yesterday actions and posts, I believe that you are likely town now. It is probably a better use of my time to make cases against Marilyn and Teaque.

Titus V. wrote:Sadly, I doubt that I will have enough time to finish the post. It's only 4 minutes left. Let me just leave you will some few thoughts: how OO reacted so far seems consistent with what I have said about him. He commented great things about the whole Marilyn vs me, but again it wasn't his idea in the first place. So my opinions about him being passive and reactive still didn't change.
Define what you mean by “it wasn’t his idea?” That i don’t come up with my own ideas and comment only/mostly on others’ ideas, or something else?

A majority of your discussion had been on the issue regarding someone else, not an issue that you personally brought up. That is what I meant by "wasn't your idea".
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Titus V. on Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:22 pm

O O. wrote:Post 2: Looking through yuzo’s interactions with people.
Looking back, yuzo fillered A LOT.

Yuzo K. wrote:
So my biggest concern with this is how you can read someone as town just because they make thought provoking arguments. I feel like we end up town reading too many mafia who are just active and post good things. (he mentions nicolette and titus as examples here)
Looks better on nicolette/titus because hes clearly trying to make people who were being tr’d for quality posts not look as good, or at least argue against them looking as good. Not sure if that necessarily means anything, or if it was just yuzo pointing out something in an attempt to look townie.

Yuzo K. wrote:Also @Marilyn, I'd like to make it clear that I don't think all the reasons presented for saying someone is town are bad
For example, I really like the point Titus or O O. brought up (not sure which one) that impulsive lynchers are more likely town. I think that makes a lot of sense for this theme
This could potentially mean he inspected someone who was more lynch-happy and said this to make them look better? Linda does fit this description but he got linda lynched so lol

Yuzo K. wrote:
Marilyn M.: Apart from your argument for Lila being scum being a little holey, I'm not getting many scummy vibes at the moment. Mostly cause you argue your points well without seeming lynch happy or defensive. Also you jump to conclusions and make a lot of accusations and though some of them don't make sense to me I don't think mafia would be brave enough to do that but I'll look more into my read on you tomorrow.
He points out multiple things that would make marilyn look scummy and then qualifies every single one with something that turns it into a townie aspect. One thing of note is that he talks about marilyn being lynch-happy… if we think of another word for that, maybe we could call her an impulsive lyncher? Yuzo could have potentially inspected marilyn and tried to anticipate possible cases against her + said this to provide ammo to defend her with.

Yuzo K. wrote:It just goes back to what Titus said. Mafia would be a lot more careful with lynching and scum reading in this theme cause they're in the same boat as a townie except they have more to lose.

Not to say that they won't but I feel like Marilyn just says what she thinks a lot more without thinking it through which I don't believe mafia would do unless they want to risk lynching their own faction.
Similar kind of post here. This is more on marilyn being impulsive.

I hate bringing back up the "Marilyn is the miller!" theory but I want to note something here. You theorized that Yuzo could have potentially inspected Marilyn, got her as mafia, and tried to defend her. Well, while making my reads regarding Marilyn, I also theorized that a good inspect for scum is Marilyn. That is why I brought up the "Marilyn is Miller" theory, because I sensed that many players in the game were sorta defending Marilyn, which implied that they inspected her and got her as mafia (similar to what you theorized). However, my gut tells me Marilyn is town - which means that the obvious conclusion is that Marilyn is the miller. When you think it is scummy of me to come up with that theory, reflect on your theory regarding Yuzo and Marilyn here and then reflect on my theory. It is very similar to what you have came up here, you just didn't go to the extent that I did.
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Titus V. on Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:32 pm

O O. wrote:Post 3: looking through everything once more and seeing if anything new catches my eye

Marilyn M. wrote:O O. - Certainly hasnt done much for the game, but their are better options. Neutral/Leaning scum
Linda G. - Made a large post with nice content, but in general was just pro-Titus+Lila and Anti-O (now that I say that I realise my post was mainly Anti-Lila but whatevs) Neutral
Yuzo/Nicolette -  who? - neutral
Hiroki M.- Made one good post, but apart from that, who?- Neutral, leaning town
Teaque - *tips fedora* m'townread, m'reusing joke- town
Lila - Hasnt done much to the game, and didnt know there were traitors, potentially for towncred. Scum
Titus - Is awesome, has done nothing but have good ideas in his posts, should pick me over linda- Town
What jumps out at me here is marilyn tr’ing teaque and titus for (i assume) having good posts. Given that we’ve discussed now that this is mainly a lazy town or scum thing to do (and given the activity marilyn’s had, i don’t think she’s lazy town), this looks pretty bad on her.

That's actually quite a good point. I guess you can say *cough* it's quite HYPOCRITICAL *cough* of Marilyn to do so.

Teaque Q. wrote:
Linda's still a town read, starting off extremely strong and explaining reads quite well. 35-65 scum-town
Titus is neutral town, He's extremely helpful to town, but... he never follows his advice? He asks everyone for read posts but doesn't try to start off and make one of his own.
This makes me think Teaque could potentially have investigated Linda n1, if he’s scum. Either that or he didn’t really take the time to read linda’s argument in full.
Not too sure why teaque doesn’t try and push titus for being hypocritical since (if true) that’s a fairly scummy trait.

I did intent to make a readlist, but I didn't finish it that day sadly.

Marilyn M. wrote:O.O

While I admit, I cherry picked slightly while quoting your things. But it's just the sheer number I got when I did so that startled me
I still want thoughts on this. Marilyn admits she cherrypicked to make her argument (that’s very scummy) and then says there’s a “sheer number” of filler posts when that is not the case (I believe I said that you could argue up to 4 of my posts on that day were filler). Both of those together look really bad for marilyn, imo.

I wasn't active during the end of Day 2, so I will have to go back and read again in details.


Titus V. wrote:Alright, before I post my reads, let's get the initial reactions out of the way:

YES WE GOT MAFIA

WHY DID LILA KILLED HIROKI
Seems super forced. I don’t like it.

Well, I was really happy. You have no idea how happy I was when you came online and lynched Yuzo the mafia.

Nicolette D. wrote:
(about me and marilyn) You two are my best townreads at the moment (ngl they aren't like rock solid trs or anything), and the two people that I would want to live on the farthest, especially because, in a lylo situation, you two have so much in interactions that I'll have more than enough info to make a decision between you two, though I don't think that'll happen for reasons aforementioned.
I'd also like to preemptively answer one question you might have in regards to the scum optimal play with Lila's vig claim situation: you would be mistaken to scumread me for figuring out scum's optimal play. I think it's a good strategy to think in scum's eyes and evaluate everyone's actions based on that. Besides, as scum, I wouldn't have called for everyone to shut up about Lila in the first place, since nobody seemed to notice my hush-hush attempt in the first place; instead, I probably would've chimed in with Yuzo and promoted discussion on them for reasons aforementioned.
Looking at this again, it’s a bit weird. I don’t really like the way Nicolette phrases the me vs. Marilyn situation, feels a little like she’s already planned a lylo with her and us two. I’d like to know if other people think i’m reaching a bit too much or not here.
I also don’t like the wifom but that’s also a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation.

I don't see a clear motivation in wanting you two alive during Lylo.

Titus V. wrote:I am making a post about Yuzo and OO and another one about cop inspects so get hyped!!!
Idr any post about cop inspects, so get that and the post on me out asap, thanks!

I could do that but I am not sure whether it would be useful tbh. The cop inspects might be though.

Titus V. wrote:I want to ask a favor for all of you that will be useful for me. I already asked this for Marilyn, but she kinda didn't answer what I expected so let me ask everyone again:

1) If I flip mafia, who do you think should be lynched next (i.e. who is likely my partner)?

2) If I flip town, who do you think are the last 2 mafia?

I know this may be weird to ask but it will really help me.
One of the reasons i ended up gut tr-ing titus was this, it was super similar to something that a town player in a different NOC i played in did. Also interesting to note how marilyn didn’t answer properly before and then didn’t answer it properly AGAIN.

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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Titus V. on Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:39 pm

Marilyn M. wrote:I have a few things I want to reply to, but I'll start
With your read on me because I feel like defending myself is the most important step
My read on you was AWFUL. I admit it. You can use that to justify your lynch.
I feel like this is kind of post that triggers OO scumtells/gutreads (considering he said he didn't like my post that said something along the line of nothing I say will change marilyn read...)

As far as the rest of it goes, the thing Titus called me out on was when I called HIM a hypocrite. He then called me a hypocrite because I was a hypocrite when reading you. Aside from that he really didn't have a defence to what I said
Are you gonna point out why I don't have a defence or are you fixated on scumreading me that you are gonna ignore what I said as not having a defence?
As far as Yuzo's interactions with me, It isn't exactly anything I can defend as it was Yuzo making the posts. I will read these posts and get back to you about it.
As far as yesterday is concerned, you have a pretty horrible argument, as the same can be said about others

Nicolette yesterday gave opinions on everything pretty much, and isn't guilty
Titus just tried to defend himself then had like a mental breakdown about being lynched
Teaque did nothing at all lol
And you weren't guilty either
So really, that argument can be used against myself, Titus, or Teaque

I'll answer Titus's question in extra detail since apparently that's what he wanted
If you flipped scum yesterday, I would have lynched Yuzo/O.O at the time. If you flipped scum today, I would go after Teaque. Yuzo is dead, and having read O.Os four part thing I refuse to believe that scum would put the effort in to reread everything, provide ANOTHER readslist, and provide thoughts on the whole game

If you flipped town yesterday, I would have gone for Yuzo+O.O, but O.O would have changed to Teaque based on what I just said.



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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Titus V. on Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:47 pm

I forgot to collapse my quotes don't kill me Linda... oh wait you are dead hahaha :^).

Marilyn M. wrote:
Aside from that, I really don't understand your gut read as town on Titus. You call him out for so many things and you claim a lot of his posts feel 'off' but then say you have a gut read as town on him.
It honestly feels like you just really want to lynch me, and can't find a reason to not lynch Titus, so you just kinda gutread him
I don't understand your logic here. Firstly, there is no motivation. What is the point, if he is mafia, of not lynching me? There is only one mafia left, so he doesn't have to be wary about lynches anymore. Furthermore,
it is not like he townread me and thus not a sudden shift in reads. Secondly, I sense a bias here. I feel like since you scumread me, you believe everyone should scumread me too. Why would the fact that he doesn't have a reason to lynch me effect his willingness to lynch you in anyway?

I don't nessicarily think you are scum because of it, I just don't understand why. Now that I can agree with. Your only valid reasons for lynching me are that I had a bad read on you, which I get why you scumread me for, and when I 'cherry picked' I was just going for everything that wasn't big contributions, which I shouldn't have done. Your other valid reason is the Yuzo thing, which, having read it, I do see where you are coming from. The only thing I can say to this is that it falls under my miller theory with Titus.
...Are you saying that this miller theory may have a little credibility in scumhunting and thus not such a scummy thing to say after all?

you did, however, put some real thought into what you typed. You read back, and took, what I saw, as an unbiased view of the entire game, which I really appreciate

I do still believe Titus is the best lynch for today so I will lynch Titus
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Titus V. on Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:51 pm

I just realized I spammed the whole page with quotes ;-; Please don't hate me I have no idea how to do it like OO.

Anyways, I would like to ask Teaque a question:
Since you ranked me and Marilyn at the same level, who do you think should be lynched? Has that changed?

For now, I am gonna Lynch Marilyn because I do think OO is town from the interactions yesterday (or at least, he ranks higher than Marilyn now in my reads). The interesting case here is whether Teaque or Marilyn should be lynched today. When I finish my thoughts on that, then I will relynch accordingly.
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by ajhockeystar on Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:24 pm

Votecount 4.1
******************************

Marilyn M.(2)- O O., Titus V.
Titus V.(1)- Marilyn M.
O O.(0)-
Teaque Q.(0)-
Nicolette D.(0)-
Not Voting(2)- Nicolette D., Teaque Q.
******************************
There are 5 alive so it takes 3 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Sunday the 16th at 9pm EST.

If the deadline was now, Marilyn M. would be lynched.
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by O O. on Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:19 pm

Marilyn M. wrote:
As far as the rest of it goes, the thing Titus called me out on was when I called HIM a hypocrite. He then called me a hypocrite because I was a hypocrite when reading you. Aside from that he really didn't have a defence to what I said
ignore that portion of my argument then

Marilyn M. wrote:
As far as yesterday is concerned, you have a pretty horrible argument, as the same can be said about others

Nicolette yesterday gave opinions on everything pretty much, and isn't guilty
Titus just tried to defend himself then had like a mental breakdown about being lynched
Teaque did nothing at all lol
And you weren't guilty either
So really, that argument can be used against myself, Titus, or Teaque
that's fair. I'll check back again on yesterday some time later and check to make sure I wasn't being unfair to you.

Marilyn M. wrote:I have a few things I want to reply to, but I'll start
With your read on me because I feel like defending myself is the most important step
My read on you was AWFUL. I admit it. You can use that to justify your lynch.
Marilyn M. wrote:
As far as Yuzo's interactions with me, It isn't exactly anything I can defend as it was Yuzo making the posts. I will read these posts and get back to you about it.
Not refuting the bulk of my argument doesn't make you any less scummy, so i'm keeping my lynch on you.

Marilyn M. wrote:"Ignoring the last second stuff, teaque has 10 posts, yuzo had 27, and I had 47. With almost 5 times the number of teaque’s posts, and a bit more than 5/3 of yuzo’s posts, if the reasoning to lynch them is around the same as lynching me, you should DEFINITELY be lynching them. The implication you’ve made there is that they have been as scummy as me despite posting less content. That means that overall, their posts are scummier."

What???
This legit makes no sense to me. You are saying that they are scummier than you because they posted less? Now that I've seen these 4 posts you made, I would certainly lynch Teaque over you, but that reasoning just makes 0 sense
Teaque also misunderstood this, so it seems I poorly explained it. sorry about that.
What I meant is that if you find someone with a lower number of posts as scummy as me, then you should be lynching them before me. The reason for this is that with less posts they have the same scumminess level, meaning that overall they have been scummier. It's not lynching someone based on activity, it's lynching based on post count and equivalent (or close) scumminess. As an example of what I mean, nicolette had nearly half of my posts but she wasn't as scummy as you saw me yesterday, so I wouldn't suggest that you lynch her over me. Let me know if I still explained it badly and i'll try again.

Marilyn M. wrote:
Aside from that, I really don't understand your gut read as town on Titus. You call him out for so many things and you claim a lot of his posts feel 'off' but then say you have a gut read as town on him.
It honestly feels like you just really want to lynch me, and can't find a reason to not lynch Titus, so you just kinda gutread him
I don't nessicarily think you are scum because of it, I just don't understand why. Your only valid reasons for lynching me are that I had a bad read on you, which I get why you scumread me for, and when I 'cherry picked' I was just going for everything that wasn't big contributions, which I shouldn't have done. Your other valid reason is the Yuzo thing, which, having read it, I do see where you are coming from.
I do gutread him, but as I mentioned in my full read of him there are things he's done that look to me as townie, plus my interactions with him make it seem like he's town as well. That being said, you are correct that there are posts I am confused about / find scummy which is why I still ask him questions / pressure him / point them out. When looking at the Titus Big Picture™️, I feel that there are more townie things than scummy ones, which is why I tr him.
a lot of my lynch on you is based on the argument, yes, but also the interactions I had with you RE: that argument. simplifying the argument down to one point isnt really fair either, as there were multiple things in it that  caused me to scumread you.

Marilyn M. wrote:In your read of Titus you talk about him looking at future lynch options etc.

When I see  those posts, to me it seemed like he was doing the scum thing of posting a 'im gonna die but I can still be saved so I'm gonna say a 'woo town is best' thing and act like I REALLY care about town winning so they unlynch me'
yeah, i understand what you mean. while, for example, the post I was fixated on was incredibly scummy, I felt like the post you are talking about was an extremely town one. It wasn't defeatist or anything and aimed to push town in a forward direction - town players who feel that the village isn't progressing in the right direction would likely post something similar to that. There are differences in the "well i'm dead" posts of town and scum, and I think that the post you're talking about is one that's made by town. If i didn't explain it well let me know and I can say why precisely I feel that way.

Teaque Q. wrote:
...The hell is Titus talking about...? I didn't visit the site during the latter half of day 2 until around deadline. Now, onto the rest of your case
that before dl or after it? regardless, ignore that point then.

Teaque Q. wrote:The first part is pure conjecture and I'm not counting it as an argument, moreso a wrong assumption. The secondary part is valid so, here we go! At that time, I personally thought Linda's arguments were decently convincing, and it was also before holes were poked in her argument. I didn't try and push Titus for being hypocritical at that point because he did respond to it, and explained it away fine at that point.
Understandable, I brought it up in case anyone else wanted to discuss it / thought it was a valid theory a la the linda inspected me theory on the last day. Why did you think linda's argument was convincing? what about it in particular made you think that way?
fair enough re: titus

Teaque Q. wrote:
You say this, but this contradicts your earlier post "Ignoring the last second stuff, teaque has 10 posts, yuzo had 27, and I had 47. With almost 5 times the number of teaque’s posts, and a bit more than 5/3 of yuzo’s posts, if the reasoning to lynch them is around the same as lynching me, you should DEFINITELY be lynching them. The implication you’ve made there is that they have been as scummy as me despite posting less content. That means that overall, their posts are scummier" Where you use our Post Counts as a sign of activity and defend yourself. and "considering activity/inactivity as a point that could change someone’s viability as town/scum is not a townsided thing to do" - O O.
see above

Teaque Q. wrote:
Mostly just filler until you get down the second half, which is like "wow liked content: read is bad" and to that I say: If I saw anything that felt wrong in those recent posts, I would have commented on it, and added it into my reads
Yeah what I was trying to say was that you were tr'ing me solely for posting good content (unless I misunderstood or missed something) which is something idt is a good town play.

Teaque Q. wrote:
Now, O O. you asked me to respond about Day 2, but what do you want me to say really; We lynched Mafia that's good, but we had 2 more to go from that point, and the mafia lynched was my town read so my reads were bad, hence why I updated them the next day.
shoot. sorry about that, I meant day 3. seems like wiping day 1 from my mind might've worked a little too well Razz

Titus V. wrote:
I am pretty sure I explained this plenty of times why I town read Nicolette. The fact that Yuzo flipped mafia further proves my point: why should she target Yuzo specifically when I was an easier push? It just doesn't make sense from a mafia perspective.
sorry, let me re-explain. The overall townread on nicolette is fine. There's just a portion in there where you townread her for having good content, which is the part that is lazy town/scum.


Titus V. wrote:
I could do that, but from yesterday actions and posts, I believe that you are likely town now. It is probably a better use of my time to make cases against Marilyn and Teaque.
alright. if you have free time i'd like to see what you would have said regardless, maybe it can help everyone out in some way.

Titus V. wrote:
I hate bringing back up the "Marilyn is the miller!" theory but I want to note something here. You theorized that Yuzo could have potentially inspected Marilyn, got her as mafia, and tried to defend her. Well, while making my reads regarding Marilyn, I also theorized that a good inspect for scum is Marilyn. That is why I brought up the "Marilyn is Miller" theory, because I sensed that many players in the game were sorta defending Marilyn, which implied that they inspected her and got her as mafia (similar to what you theorized). However, my gut tells me Marilyn is town - which means that the obvious conclusion is that Marilyn is the miller. When you think it is scummy of me to come up with that theory, reflect on your theory regarding Yuzo and Marilyn here and then reflect on my theory. It is very similar to what you have came up here, you just didn't go to the extent that I did.
so obviously the reason I treat it as an association is because I think marilyn is scum. I think, however, that if I saw associations between two people that point to a mafia inspect, i'd think that my gutread was wrong rather than hypothesize the miller theory. That could be attributed to differences in mindset, though. I'll take a look back at this later as well and possibly talk about it if i'm not feeling too lazy.

Titus V. wrote:
I don't see a clear motivation in wanting you two alive during Lylo.
at the time we were still scumreading each other fairly hard, meaning that if we were both alive in lylo we'd be going at each other rather than whoever the third person is (nicolette, in this case).

Titus V. wrote:
I could do that but I am not sure whether it would be useful tbh. The cop inspects might be though.
yeah, do that.

Titus V. wrote:I just realized I spammed the whole page with quotes ;-; Please don't hate me I have no idea how to do it like OO.
I just manually edit them. Add in [/quote]
to end the quote and [quote="(full username, include last initial and period)"] to start off a new one.

also i've been seeing townreads on me just because i posted so much at the start of the day.
knock it off.
read the post and if you like the reasoning / think its useful / think it brings in new & valid info then feel free to townread me for it
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by O O. on Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:22 pm

so obviously the reason I treat it as an association is because I think marilyn is scum. I think, however, that if I saw associations between two people that point to a mafia inspect and I gutread them as town, i'd think that my gutread was wrong rather than hypothesize the miller theory. That could be attributed to differences in mindset, though. I'll take a look back at this later as well and possibly talk about it if i'm not feeling too lazy.

fixed
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Nicolette D. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:00 am

I'm going to mostly ignore the last minute plurshift when it comes to adjusting reads for a couple reasons: a) I wanted yuzo lynched in the first place b) I don't think O. O. would actively facilitate a plurshift onto their last scumpartner (albeit the chances of scum o. o. knowing yuzo as their partner isn't very high) and c) I already scumread titus to the point where a scummy plurshift doesn't change my read on them, but just affirms my scumread on them in the first place.

I'll now answer questions/talk about some stuff. first to o.o.:
honestly, a lot of the stuff about everyone missing linda's not vig claim (and subsequently my post where i pointed it out) was me being salty about the fact that nobody noticed it. The reason why I didn't lynch them, though, was because I wanted to keep them alive since they had told us they wouldn't be available until the next game-day, and I wanted to pressure the f out of them and potentially draw out more information.
The reason why I brought up the lylo situation is because I'm actually thinking about the endgame, and am considering who I would lynch if I were in a lylo situation at the given moment with any 2 of the remaining alive players. My obvious best choice for this is o.o. and marilyn, because I townread them both; the two of you would also be great in the sense that you two have a lot of interactions with each other, and I would be able to make the most informative decision if it were to come down between you two. At the moment, I scumread both Titus and Teaque far too much for me to ever consider not lynching them in said situation; the cases against them have far too much weight (Marilyn's case against Titus was solid, and Titus crumbled under that pressure; I'm getting to Teaque later). I also want to make it extra clear that don't see either of you as scum at all; I'm just saying that I would have an actual decision to make rather than an autolynch in that situation, and I would have plenty of logs to read back that would help me make that decision.
As for Marilyn's offensive against you, I don't think it's nearly as solid as her case against Titus; I'm crediting her for demonstrating active scumhunting; something which few of us have actually done in this game. I also think Marilyn's defense against your accusations on her have been solid, far more so than Titus's defense on others. You guys also need to drop the hypocrisy thing about reading people based on post quality, and I say this because I want to qualify that statement: we shouldn't be reading people based on post quality at this stage in the game. I think it's totally fine to read someone as town for good quality posts in the early-game, because those are coming from the players' own volition and can be taken as an attempt to get a conversation started.

on to Titus:
the plurshift was really lame, but you wanted to save yourself, and I can understand that from both a town and scum perspective, so I won't dock you off too hard.
what I don't understand, though, is why you lynched marilyn today: haven't you been defending your miller theory as a gut tr on marilyn this entire time? Even if you think marilyn's scummier than o.o., can you say the same about teaque? Nowhere have I seen you retract your miller theory nor your tr on marilyn, which makes me think that lynch on marilyn heavily contradicts your earlier statements.

Now Teaque:
I can also confirm that I've seen Teaque visit the site on multiple occasions on day 3. The reason why I've been checking, I'll get to.
O. O. asks for comments on day 3 and all, but we should be scumreading Teaque for not commenting/posting opinions/pushing reads and participating in the discussion as a whole: what kind of townie doesn't contribute and weigh in, especially when so much in terms of arguments and pushes happened? The fact that they lynched Titus and left the lynch there without bothering to read/comment on Titus's defense makes me think that Teaque didn't care if the d3 lynch ended in a mislynch. I think a town player, if they knew they wouldn't be able to contribute as much for a prolonged period of time, wouldn't leave their lynch on anyone during their absence.
I also set a trap against Teaque in my first d3 post, where I articulated my readlist: I put Teaque as scummier than Titus without so much as explaining why. Considering my case against Titus in day 2 and my followup blurb on Titus in that readlist post, I think my scumread on Titus was clearly stronger than my scumread on Teaque at that point, even from an outsider's point of view (my case against teaque at that point was "change in read was weird in one occasion, and you've been cruising/haven't been actively scumhunting"): I intentionally shifted the two of them on my readlist to see how Teaque reacted to being second scummiest on my readlist. They didn't. Not only that, but they didn't comment on anyone's posts from d3 at all; in my opinon, teaque didn't feel the need to comment because they didn't feel pressured to do so at all, and didn't want to slip up when attempting to seem townie. They therefore missed my unnatural placement of them on my readlist, which would've been an obvious comment to make as a town player (especially given my earlier statement about how town should dissect every post and pressure people based on them as much as possible, and the number of times other players have referenced me saying that phrase).

Everybody get off your respective lynches on Marilyn and Titus: I think it's obvious that neither are appropriate as lynches for today given Teaque's scummy behavior as detailed above. Teaque, at this point, is negative utility to town at best, and I'm not letting a potential scum cruise for another full day. I can't lynch Teaque at the moment, because Teaque himself is the only other person to not have placed a lynch at the moment; they could plurhammer Marilyn and explain it off as an accident, and i'm not letting that happen.
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Marilyn M. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:52 am

I'm going to start with this one because it is the worse
Titus V. wrote:I forgot to collapse my quotes don't kill me Linda... oh wait you are dead hahaha :^).

Marilyn M. wrote:
Aside from that, I really don't understand your gut read as town on Titus. You call him out for so many things and you claim a lot of his posts feel 'off' but then say you have a gut read as town on him.
It honestly feels like you just really want to lynch me, and can't find a reason to not lynch Titus, so you just kinda gutread him
I don't understand your logic here. Firstly, there is no motivation. What is the point, if he is mafia, of not lynching me? There is only one mafia left, so he doesn't have to be wary about lynches anymore. Furthermore,
it is not like he townread me and thus not a sudden shift in reads. Secondly, I sense a bias here. I feel like since you scumread me, you believe everyone should scumread me too. Why would the fact that he doesn't have a reason to lynch me effect his willingness to lynch you in anyway?

I don't nessicarily think you are scum because of it, I just don't understand why. Now that I can agree with. Your only valid reasons for lynching me are that I had a bad read on you, which I get why you scumread me for, and when I 'cherry picked' I was just going for everything that wasn't big contributions, which I shouldn't have done. Your other valid reason is the Yuzo thing, which, having read it, I do see where you are coming from. The only thing I can say to this is that it falls under my miller theory with Titus.
...Are you saying that this miller theory may have a little credibility in scumhunting and thus not such a scummy thing to say after all?

you did, however, put some real thought into what you typed. You read back, and took, what I saw, as an unbiased view of the entire game, which I really appreciate

I do still believe Titus is the best lynch for today so I will lynch Titus

Your first paragraph is a bunch of rubbish. You IGNORED what I said in the very next line and instead made a large parapgraph saying how it wouldn't make sense if O.O was mafia you then responded to me saying I didn't think O.O was mafia by saying that you agree. Therefore, at this point you have acknowledged that I TR O.O, so why leave that enourmous paragraph in there? You left it so it would appear as if you had reasoning for me to be lynched. Following MY miller theory (not yours) you now know I am town, and therefore no longer need to townread me. This is why in the post before you stated you would rather have me and Teaque lynched, while yesterday O.O was tied top of your scumreads. Hey look, you are CHANGING YOUR READS again, one of YOUR OWN scumtells. Isn't that a bit of *cough* hypocrisy *cough*
So stop calling me a hypocrite, and stop being a hypocrite plz and ty

Your second paragraph: I was referring to MY miller theory, which puts you as scum. So no. Your theory can't be used as reason for scumhunting
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Marilyn M. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:23 am

Titus V. wrote:I just realized I spammed the whole page with quotes ;-; Please don't hate me I have no idea how to do it like OO.

Anyways, I would like to ask Teaque a question:
Since you ranked me and Marilyn at the same level, who do you think should be lynched? Has that changed?

For now, I am gonna Lynch Marilyn because I do think OO is town from the interactions yesterday (or at least, he ranks higher than Marilyn now in my reads). The interesting case here is whether Teaque   or Marilyn should be lynched today. When I finish my thoughts on that, then I will relynch accordingly.

In this same page, where nobody else posted between the post I'm referring to and this one, you say 'my gut TR's Marilyn'
Now you have realised that, in order to win, you need both me and Teaque gone. I am the one building a case against you so you know you need me lynched quickly. If you were town, you would have lynched Teaque, and attempted to convince Nicolette, O.O, and myself to lynch him too, because following what you have said, he is the only person you truly scumread.

O.O, I understand what you are saying now, but I just disagree with what you are saying. I tried explaining it myself but failed, and so I've got rid of it and am typing this instead.

nicolette. I can't unlynch Titus
I want a scum to die, I want me to survive. I'm like 98% sure the scum is between Titus and Teaque
Lynching Teaque would cause Teaque to hammer me, leaving you in a situation where town is lynchcjng between Titus and Teaque, just as Titus wants

Teaque. What are your current thoughts on the game. Who is scum, who is town
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Marilyn M. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:31 am

'Well, I was really happy. You have no idea how happy I was when you came online and lynched Yuzo the mafia.'

Again. Seems forced the way you said 'the mafia'. Also you are referring to the WRONG post. This makes me think it IS forced

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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Titus V. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:31 am

Marilyn M. wrote:I'm going to start with this one because it is the worse
Titus V. wrote:I forgot to collapse my quotes don't kill me Linda... oh wait you are dead hahaha :^).

Marilyn M. wrote:
Aside from that, I really don't understand your gut read as town on Titus. You call him out for so many things and you claim a lot of his posts feel 'off' but then say you have a gut read as town on him.
It honestly feels like you just really want to lynch me, and can't find a reason to not lynch Titus, so you just kinda gutread him
I don't understand your logic here. Firstly, there is no motivation. What is the point, if he is mafia, of not lynching me? There is only one mafia left, so he doesn't have to be wary about lynches anymore. Furthermore,
it is not like he townread me and thus not a sudden shift in reads. Secondly, I sense a bias here. I feel like since you scumread me, you believe everyone should scumread me too. Why would the fact that he doesn't have a reason to lynch me effect his willingness to lynch you in anyway?

I don't nessicarily think you are scum because of it, I just don't understand why. Now that I can agree with. Your only valid reasons for lynching me are that I had a bad read on you, which I get why you scumread me for, and when I 'cherry picked' I was just going for everything that wasn't big contributions, which I shouldn't have done. Your other valid reason is the Yuzo thing, which, having read it, I do see where you are coming from. The only thing I can say to this is that it falls under my miller theory with Titus.
...Are you saying that this miller theory may have a little credibility in scumhunting and thus not such a scummy thing to say after all?

you did, however, put some real thought into what you typed. You read back, and took, what I saw, as an unbiased view of the entire game, which I really appreciate

I do still believe Titus is the best lynch for today so I will lynch Titus

Your first paragraph is a bunch of rubbish. You IGNORED what I said in the very next line and instead made a large parapgraph saying how it wouldn't make sense if O.O was mafia you then responded to me saying I didn't think O.O was mafia by saying that you agree. Therefore, at this point you have acknowledged that I TR O.O, so why leave that enourmous paragraph in there? You left it so it would appear as if you had reasoning for me to be lynched. Following MY miller theory (not yours) you now know I am town, and therefore no longer need to townread me. This is why in the post before you stated you would rather have me and Teaque lynched, while yesterday O.O was tied top of your scumreads. Hey look, you are CHANGING YOUR READS again, one of YOUR OWN scumtells. Isn't that a bit of *cough* hypocrisy *cough*
So stop calling me a hypocrite, and stop being a hypocrite plz and ty

Your second paragraph: I was referring to MY miller theory, which puts you as scum. So no. Your theory can't be used as reason for scumhunting

1) Changing reads is a scum tell when THERE IS MORE THAN ONE MAFIA ALIVE!!! If you actually read the reasoning when I posted that scumtell, I said that mafia might inspected their partner and thus changing their read. When there is only one mafia left, changing reads is not a scum tell! Stop throwing the word "hypocrite" around carelessly + stop adhering so strictly to these said scum-tells without considering where it is coming from.

2) I left my paragraph in there as a comment to your post. In no way did I say that you are scum simply because of what you said there. If you recall my reads, it was Yuzo/OO > Marilyn > Teaque > Nicolette. Yuzo is dead, I now townread OO, oh guess who's next? You and Teaque. That is why I said I will lynch you FOR NOW and WILL RELYNCH accordingly when I go back in detail and read between you two.

3) If OO was mafia, his last second plurshift that "saved me" didn't make much sense. The only way it would make sense is that he must have inspected me as mafia, so he didn't want me dead while he didn't mind Yuzo dying. However, since Yuzo flipped mafia, by that logic I must be the town miller or something. IMO OO as mafia just doesn't make sense. Furthermore, his posts, although reaction-based, are very solid and I would rather have him alive.
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Titus V. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:34 am

Marilyn M. wrote:
Titus V. wrote:I just realized I spammed the whole page with quotes ;-; Please don't hate me I have no idea how to do it like OO.

Anyways, I would like to ask Teaque a question:
Since you ranked me and Marilyn at the same level, who do you think should be lynched? Has that changed?

For now, I am gonna Lynch Marilyn because I do think OO is town from the interactions yesterday (or at least, he ranks higher than Marilyn now in my reads). The interesting case here is whether Teaque   or Marilyn should be lynched today. When I finish my thoughts on that, then I will relynch accordingly.

In this same page, where nobody else posted between the post I'm referring to and this one, you say 'my gut TR's Marilyn'
Now you have realised that, in order to win, you need both me and Teaque gone. I am the one building a case against you so you know you need me lynched quickly. If you were town, you would have lynched Teaque, and attempted to convince Nicolette, O.O, and myself to lynch him too, because following what you have said, he is the only person you truly scumread.

O.O, I understand what you are saying now, but I just disagree with what you are saying. I tried explaining it myself but failed, and so I've got rid of it and am typing this instead.

nicolette. I can't unlynch Titus
I want a scum to die, I want me to survive. I'm like 98% sure the scum is between Titus and Teaque
Lynching Teaque would cause Teaque to hammer me, leaving you in a situation where town is lynchcjng between Titus and Teaque, just as Titus wants

Teaque. What are your current thoughts on the game. Who is scum, who is town

Uhh... I never truly scumread Teaque? I even ranked him higher than you as town in my read list. It's the fact that he is reluctant to give his thoughts about the game which make me think he might be a good lynch for today. I am willing to unlynch you if you gonna lynch Teaque. As I said, my lynch was there until I make a post between you and Teaque.
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Titus V. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:38 am

Marilyn M. wrote:'Well, I was really happy. You have no idea how happy I was when you came online and lynched Yuzo the mafia.'

Again. Seems forced the way you said 'the mafia'. Also you are referring to the WRONG post. This makes me think it IS forced


Please elaborate I don't understand I am referring to the wrong post. Also, I also think that analyzing posts as "forced" is a good way of scumhunting since it relies on the player's playstyle. As OO pointed out, your first post Day 3 could be seen as forced and unhelpful. However, if you are truly town and made that post with pure intent, then you should realized that "forced" is a matter of perspective.
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Titus V. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:40 am

Unlynching Marilyn since Teaque is online. Would like to hear his thoughts.
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Teaque Q. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:00 am

Nicolette D. wrote:
Now Teaque:
I can also confirm that I've seen Teaque visit the site on multiple occasions on day 3. The reason why I've been checking, I'll get to.
O. O. asks for comments on day 3 and all, but we should be scumreading Teaque for not commenting/posting opinions/pushing reads and participating in the discussion as a whole: what kind of townie doesn't contribute and weigh in, especially when so much in terms of arguments and pushes happened? The fact that they lynched Titus and left the lynch there without bothering to read/comment on Titus's defense makes me think that Teaque didn't care if the d3 lynch ended in a mislynch. I think a town player, if they knew they wouldn't be able to contribute as much for a prolonged period of time, wouldn't leave their lynch on anyone during their absence.
I also set a trap against Teaque in my first d3 post, where I articulated my readlist: I put Teaque as scummier than Titus without so much as explaining why. Considering my case against Titus in day 2 and my followup blurb on Titus in that readlist post, I think my scumread on Titus was clearly stronger than my scumread on Teaque at that point, even from an outsider's point of view (my case against teaque at that point was "change in read was weird in one occasion, and you've been cruising/haven't been actively scumhunting"): I intentionally shifted the two of them on my readlist to see how Teaque reacted to being second scummiest on my readlist. They didn't. Not only that, but they didn't comment on anyone's posts from d3 at all; in my opinon, teaque didn't feel the need to comment because they didn't feel pressured to do so at all, and didn't want to slip up when attempting to seem townie. They therefore missed my unnatural placement of them on my readlist, which would've been an obvious comment to make as a town player (especially given my earlier statement about how town should dissect every post and pressure people based on them as much as possible, and the number of times other players have referenced me saying that phrase).

Firstly, I'm not going to respond to something that's basically a conspiracy theory. I'm going to respond here because you're starting a tunnel on me and I don't enjoy that. Your "unnatural placement" isn't unnatural, I fully expect scum reads / town reads on me. I know exactly what I've done and it did warrant at least one or two scumreads at the time. But, If you wanted to pressure me, you should've lynched me. You did not, and therefore what you came up with was a force with no backing. Now onto THIS argument. You are scumreading me for not falling into a trap...? Just because I didn't interact with you in no way makes me mafia. I stated my thoughts for the day, and waited for you and others to state a proper argument against me, because again, No evidence = No pressure. I lurked during Day 3 because I had nothing constructive or useful to say that already had not been said.

Now, I'll be back with another post in 2-3 hours, it'll clarify my thoughts on Day 3 and the current day 4 a bit more.
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Marilyn M. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:46 am

I don't think O.O is mafia, and I never did since my first post today

Anyway, now I feel it is safe, and a good idea, to
unlynch Titus, lynch Teaque

I'm not comfortable with this wildcard of a player being in the game, though I would like to hear his thoughts
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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

Post by Teaque Q. on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:37 am

Marilyn M. wrote:I don't think O.O is mafia, and I never did since my first post today

Anyway, now I feel it is safe, and a good idea, to
unlynch Titus, lynch Teaque

I'm not comfortable with this wildcard of a player being in the game, though I would like to hear his thoughts

To put it quaintly, we're in a 1v4 situation and you are lynching me for being a "wildcard", not because you think I'm scum. Good pressure, but I honestly feel this was a scumslip. You're trying to get rid of characters you don't know too much about (me), or you're using the wildcard excuse as my lynch, but firmly know that I am town, and see me as an easy push to get lynched.

Not only that, but this is the first day you truly scumread me, which is a deft flip from your earlier reads from the past two days. Now, the only major thing that happened between today and yesterday was that the second mafia member was lynched. You didn't note that you had a reason to lynch me until today and I was your second highest townread of them all. I don't understand why you think I'm a better lynch over Titus as well, as you have been constantly pushing this the entire past 2 days, but you have been segwaying into the lynch today. Now, combining all of this, I believe that you are mafia who thought I was your partner at one point. Maybe I'm miller, I don't really know. But, you're thoughts on me changed upon Linda's and Yuzo's lynches, leaving you as the Lone Mafia Member, and me as an easy to push townie. (God it felt good to get this out I've been theorizing this for the past 2 days and needed her to interact with me to send this out)

Mademoiselle, I'm sorry; but it is over.

Lynch Marilyn M.

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Re: Game 30: Separated Scum

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