Game 30: Separated Scum

Marilyn M. wrote:I agree, and I will leave after I quickly respond to that

Either way, what was stopping you from coming online and lynching someone earlier?
You certainly werent busy for 48 hours

My last post too, for now. Well basically I didn't have any one in mind after I unlynched you, so I thought that I should start by forming a reads list fist. However, due to my weird sleep schedule, I fell asleep directly after I came home so I didn't come online. It was too late by that point to try to write something (considering how long I spend on writing a read list) to lynch anyone.

Votecount 3.1
******************************
Titus V.(2)- Teaque Q., Marilyn M.
Marilyn M.(1)- O O.
Yuzo K.(1)- Nicolette D.
O O.(0)-
Teaque Q.(0)-
Nicolette D.(0)-
Not Voting(2)- Yuzo K., Titus V.
******************************
There are 6 alive so it takes 4 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Monday the 10th at 9pm EST.

If the deadline was now, Titus V. would be lynched.

Teaque Q. wrote:
Ok so, O O.'s sr on Marilyn is definitely justified in the sense that the theme is Separated Scum and she doesn't know all of her partners, which could explain lynch on Linda. (This also goes for Yuzo)

Jumping back to Marilyn, I'm pretty confused as to why she stated the numbers, but didn't exactly do much else...? I don't really know, but she definitely has good reason to be scumread.

are you trying to say that my sr on marilyn doesn't become invalid despite marilyn lynching scum because scum don't know one another? just wanna make sure i understood correctly.
Agree on the post marilyn made at the start of the day, that just seemed like obvious information and wasn't really useful (maybe it was useful for someone else, it's certainly possible)

Titus V. wrote:
Also, I would like to Lynch Marilyn for now just in case she comes in, lynches me and I die due to plurality since others are reluctant to lynch. Trust me, it has happened before and I do not want to die a silly death again. Just note that my lynch on marilyn is temporary - I will form my stance during my read list.

This is like.. done way too early. It's the start of the day, and titus has clearly had time to be around here for a while now, so i dont understand why he'd place a safety lynch like this at the start of the day.

Nicolette D. wrote:I have a LOT of things to say.

its too bad nobody will read them

Nicolette D. wrote:
Second, why did NOBODY react or respond to my accusation towards Linda, especially when I called out their "not vig" claim as scummy af, if not a potential slip? The reasoning that I saw for the Linda lynch was "they're the best option we have as of now" (correct me if i'm wrong on this, but will check), when we could've delved into so much analysis on their last post before they went awol. The only reason i didn't lynch them was because for this exact reason; i didn't want to lynch an afk and call it a day. My conclusion: the lynch on linda was not a town wagon.

ok im 99% certain i read all the posts and I swear i never saw linda's "not vig" claim or you accusing her of anything after this. was this at the end of the day? I'm not fully understanding why you think the lynch on linda wasn't a town wagon as well, or how you are even able to figure out whether it's a town wagon or not.

Nicolette D. wrote:
Yuzo. From the moment they've been "back", all they've done is be wishy-washy, provide copy-pastes of other people's reads, and ignore town directions. The first instance of this happened when they called for vig to cc Lila, when we obviously discussed this as a poor and unnecessary play. The second instance was when they blatantly ignored my call for everyone to shut the hell up concerning anything related to Lila. And it's not even like they questioned my request, or argued with me about it; blatantly ignored. I have two possible explanations for this, and both point at Yuzo being scum. My first explanation is that Yuzo is scum that wanted to make sure that Lila was the true vig, and not one of their partners that fakeclaimed vig to survive the night. This would explain why they called for vig to cc Lila, and would also explain why they tried to question Lila about their kill choice on Claudina. Posting their opinion on Lila being the real vig would have also helped them decipher if their assumptions were true, provided Lila responded to these accusations with anything. In this case, Yuzo could both be the scum vig, or just be a scum that was trying to help their partner make their kill.

I think that of the two points this is the one that's a lot more valid, especially because yuzo pretty much ignored what was agreed upon (twice!) re: the vig. Worth mentioning that he only talks about ccs before hiroki and I reminded everyone about the agreed-upon strategy. Him asking lila why she shot claudina looks incredibly bad on him, though.

Nicolette D. wrote:
*second point goes here*

iirc yuzo provided actual reasoning for his lynch against Linda, and he both said that he forgot AND that it was because it was bad (at least that's how i understood it). I'm not sure about whether yuzo's mistakes RE: forgetting previous posts are him just messing up or him being scum and trying to get valuable info, though.

Nicolette D. wrote:
I'd also like to mention how you've been cruising this entire game. Nobody has come out to pressure you, and you've just been "there" in the game, without making so much as a stance on anything. Yes, you've posted your readlist and whatnot, but is that so hard if you just read the discussion that's taken place and give your honest thoughts on it? I guess what i want to say is that your posts aren't indicative of active scumhunting, and is a big reason why I scumread you.

Yeah, nobody's really pressured teaque, but quite frankly its been pretty hard to find anything to pressure him ON. good town play, or good scum play? I don't know. I was going to push teaque on the previous day for being too careful with his lynch, but he lynched someone right before I was going to make said post pointing this out so I just attributed his caution to his own playstyle. I do agree with what you've said about him not actively scumhunting, though - I don't actually remember any scenarios where teaque has heavily pushed for someone to be lynch (correct me if im wrong, here).

Nicolette D. wrote:
Like I said earlier, I will redouble my case against Titus, hopefully later in this day, but I'd like to reaffirm that my scumread on Titus still stands. If anything, they've dropped in activity as of late, and haven't made any "meaningful/insightful posts" as you guys love to call them. Maybe it's because he doesn't have any "advice" in regards to setup anymore? hmmm

Remind me to check what posts titus made aside from defending himself and setup advice later. this also checks to see if you guys are actually reading these longer posts lol

Nicolette D. wrote:
Finally, on to O. O. and Marilyn: I think you two are going at each other's throats for no reason, and the O. O. vs Marilyn battle is a town v town battle that scum is egging on.

If you feel scum is egging on O v Marilyn, could you provide some examples of that? I'm not really seeing anyone do that, and its mostly been us fighting separately from outside influence.

Titus V. wrote:
Oh... Who just said "I've never done a thing wrong in your life and you should know that" and lynch me in the next post? THEN you call me out for a sudden shift in reads? When you just said I tunnel you for 2 days. Good attempt at trying to coming up with reasons to justify your lynch, but let's face it, had I not lynch you, you wouldn't even lynch me. It just proves my point that I had to defend myself by lynching you first.

I don't understand how you missed that that was Linda's readslist. Especially for someone like Titus, that seems uncharacteristic. Breaking under the pressure or just an honest mistake?

Titus V. wrote:
Sure, she may have provided reasons, but I believe she is going with the flow.

I remember reading this whole post and thinking something was completely wrong with it but i've now forgotten what it was. Leaving this here just in case I remember down the road.
Now the part remaining, is just... ????? if she's provided reasons, screw whether she's going with the flow or not. Are the reasons a) valid and b) not just copied from someone else? If so, then saying she's just "going with the flow" is really not a fair way to dismiss someone else's read. If the reasons she had for lynching you were the exact same/very similar to what someone else said before lynching you, then I can understand doing so, but if the reasons are self-created (I believe this was, marilyn was stating several examples of how you were falling into the scumtells you defined), then heck off with that.

Titus V. wrote:
Nicolette - Good analysis and deep insights regarding issues that have not been brought up before show a good attitude towards scumhunting. This is town because I highly doubt mafia will go this length to push someone without any clear reward. He also go against the flow which honestly is a good thing and appreciated. I really like his accusations - it's very logical but I do think it is sometimes too reliant on the fact that everyone plays optimally. Sometimes town play sub-optimally too, and as I said before, since hindsight is 20-20 it is possible to over look some obvious things.

the first part is townreading someone for having good content. This is a classic move almost always done by 1 of two kinds of players: lazy townie or scum. Honestly though, as I read more and more of titus's posts i'm thinking that either of these two options is entirely possible. The second part is fine and another reason I TR Nicolette.

Titus V. wrote:
Another thing I notice is that he seems to have a stronger reaction when Marilyn lynched him than Linda lynched him. Could mean nothing but a good note nevertheless. His defense is good though. Neutral - Leaning Scum

Linda's argument sucked. Marilyn's sucked, was full of cherrypicking, and had hypocrisy. One is worse than the other, which is why I pursued one over the other (I also scumread Linda but wasn't willing to pursue her because she didn't have the opportunity to defend herself. Silly? maybe, but I had other scumreads who were present and I could push).

Titus V. wrote:
Yuzo - I will give him slight credit for lynching Linda though.

Why? Just for lynching, for the reasoning and the lynch, the way he went about it, etc?

Marilyn M. wrote:
*stuff about the miller is in here*

I don't understand why Titus hypothesized that Marilyn was the mirror (he explains himself in later posts and that still doesn't make sense to me). Marilyn's explanation about him being mafia and thinking marilyn could be his scumbuddy is certainly viable but I can't really tell whether that's the case or he convinced himself with whatever reasoning he had that she was miller.

Marilyn M. wrote:Titus has suddenly become extremely active now that I scumread him, while he made basically no effort on day 2
Im going to steal Nicolettes scumread on Yuzo and say that on day 2 he was...

simply not paying attention, because they could afford to.

Now that they are a lynch target, he is paying alot of attention

agreed. Worth mentioning, though, that it is the weekend so its likely that everyone has more time now.

Titus V. wrote:
The classic argument of activity. I was pretty sure I had good posts during Day 2. Heck, many people said I was definite town early day 2 because I posted a lot. If I had not post a lot, I would be lynched. If I post a lot, you would say something like this. Come up with something better.

I'm going to check this now, because I don't remember much from you mid-day, only at the start. Give me a minute or two.

Titus V. wrote:Also, just some thoughts for these players:

@O O: Can you please explain why you think Marilyn made a big deal of her unlynch? And why you think her unlynch was justified?

@Marilyn: Can you explain why you unlynch Teaque when he didn't have pluraity and you didn't have anyone else in mind?

@Nicolette: Perhaps you misunderstood my posts but Marilyn exactly tripped my scumtell "unlynching for no reason i.e not actively pushing" while Claudina did the opposite "lynching for no reason"

@Linda: I'm not sure whether these slips are enough of a reason to lynch someone over. They are surely great for starting a point though. Also, what particular part of Marilyn's defense do you like?

@Teaque: I actually didn't anticipate these readlists to start popping up so soon. When I said "as the game goes on" I actually meant like Day 3 or even 4. However, I do think we have enough discussions for now to make somewhat of a readlist at least for guidance. Mine will come soon.

@Lila: I want to hear some of your ideas. A read list would be perfect.

That's all for now folks!

Titus V. wrote:@Marilyn: If you could quote where you or Nicolette brought up abrupt changes in reads a scum tell, please do so. I am pretty sure I read all of the posts. Furthermore, it's not that you unlynch - but the reason you gave after. You said you unlynched when you made your mind which wagon to join. However, you didn't - you just unlynched teaque for well, no good reason since you didn't bother lynching anyone else until Amelia just to save yourself. That fits my scumtell.

Titus V. wrote:

Marilyn M. wrote:

Titus V. wrote:@Marilyn: If you could quote where you or Nicolette brought up abrupt changes in reads a scum tell, please do so. I am pretty sure I read all of the posts. Furthermore, it's not that you unlynch - but the reason you gave after. You said you unlynched when you made your mind which wagon to join. However, you didn't - you just unlynched teaque for well, no good reason since you didn't bother lynching anyone else until Amelia just to save yourself. That fits my scumtell.

What I'm getting from this is that you think I unlynched, and say for ages holding my lynch when I could be lynching
I unlynched with the intention of reading later posts before casting my vote, it just happened that the next time I came online I was nearly being lynched so I had to lynch Amelia to save myself.

I found this post to be convincing enough. I find this endeavor to be quite meaningless as everyone seem to think you provided enough reason. I just find it a little weird you would need to unlynch Teaque while waiting for future posts. Also, thanks for quoting where you have said about abrupt changes. I have missed that posts, and it does make me feel that you are not as scummy. Unlynch Marilyn

Titus V. wrote:

Marilyn M. wrote:

Titus V. wrote:

However, I still scumread her so I thought it was fine.

Note: After reading Marilyn's defense, I don't think she is actually that scummy anymore. I'll write it up in another post.

???
I scumread her
I dont think she is scummy

The rest of this post seems well written to me and I agree with what you said

What I meant is at the time I lynched you, I still find you scummy. However, as of now, I no longer think that you are the best candidate to be lynched. (hence the "anymore")

Everything useful Titus said on day 2, not including defenses of himself. nothing at the end, since he overslept (i assume).

Reads coming up in the next post because I don't want this to clutter them.

Marilyn M. - Still not convinced in the slightest that she's not scum. I don't like her defense at all, esp given that she directly admits to cherrypicking, + says that my useless posts are greater than most (there were like, 2. around 4-5 if you count just agreeing with things. Answering questions/reinforcing something I thought was important are not things I define as useless and as such they are not included in this). Her defense against the unlynch was good, as nicolette said, but otherwise i'm not impressed. I'm actually a little curious about her opinion on Teaque though - I feel like I have a good understanding about how she feels about everyone except for him.

Teaque Q. - Dude has been coasting, yeah. He's also been fairly careful with how he votes. I'm more inclined to attribute that to playstyle, though. I like that he's taken a stand and has (kinda) pushed someone. He hasn't had a full on back-and-forth with anyone yet, and his activity is pretty low. I'd like to see both of those change, although the first one is pretty hard. I find that most of his posts just don't give off either a townie or a scummy vibe. Like, I read them and am like "ok" and have no real other reaction to them. That's something that tends to occur only with scum, but i'll give him the benefit of the doubt right now.

Yuzo K. - Nicolette brought a lot of good points up about him. I dislike how he still hasn't taken a stand on the majority of the remaining players (unless I missed it). Would be REALLY nice to see reads or some kind of opinion post on everyone. I feel like most of his posts have been vig spec / defenses. The linda reasoning/lynch was good though, along with the way he reacted to my start-of-day theory, so i'm actually inclined to say that he's more townie than not.

Titus V. - One thing's for sure - dude REALLY doesn't react well to pressure. That being said, his defense overall has been fairly good. Marilyn has brought up some good points, but I feel like she's misunderstood some of what titus said (e.g. the nicolette/marilyn thing). Slight leaning on him as scum just based on the way he reacted to Marilyn's push, even though the reasoning for doing so was (i suppose) fair.

Nicolette D. - Haven't seen anything that would make me change my read of her. Most of what i'd say has already been brought up before, and there's nothing i've seen from her that would make me think of her as scummier. Don't worry, i'm still watching

If I had to rank town>scum right now, it'd be Nicolette >> Teaque > Yuzo > Titus > Marilyn.

O O. wrote:

Titus V. wrote:
Also, I would like to Lynch Marilyn for now just in case she comes in, lynches me and I die due to plurality since others are reluctant to lynch. Trust me, it has happened before and I do not want to die a silly death again. Just note that my lynch on marilyn is temporary - I will form my stance during my read list.

This is like.. done way too early. It's the start of the day, and titus has clearly had time to be around here for a while now, so i dont understand why he'd place a safety lynch like this at the start of the day.
It's not about me, it's about the other players in the game. Let's say something similar happen today except it's the other way round - Marilyn lynched me then we get into an argument bla bla bla. However, no one came online! Thus, all that argument was useless and I died by plurality. That is why I decided to lynch Marilyn first-
because I am sure that I am not busy this weekend. I even noted in the post that the lynch was temporary. You may find it unnecessary but is it really? Teaque had not say anything yet, Yuzo & Nicolette made a few posts but didn't went in depth about the Marilyn vs Titus and you just came now.

Titus V. wrote:
Oh... Who just said "I've never done a thing wrong in your life and you should know that" and lynch me in the next post? THEN you call me out for a sudden shift in reads? When you just said I tunnel you for 2 days. Good attempt at trying to coming up with reasons to justify your lynch, but let's face it, had I not lynch you, you wouldn't even lynch me. It just proves my point that I had to defend myself by lynching you first.

I don't understand how you missed that that was Linda's readslist. Especially for someone like Titus, that seems uncharacteristic. Breaking under the pressure or just an honest mistake?
Honest mistake.

Titus V. wrote:
Sure, she may have provided reasons, but I believe she is going with the flow.

I remember reading this whole post and thinking something was completely wrong with it but i've now forgotten what it was. Leaving this here just in case I remember down the road.
Now the part remaining, is just... ????? if she's provided reasons,  screw whether she's going with the flow or not. Are the reasons a) valid and b) not just copied from someone else? If so, then saying she's just "going with the flow" is really not a fair way to dismiss someone else's read. If the reasons she had for lynching you were the exact same/very similar to what someone else said before lynching you, then I can understand doing so, but if the reasons are self-created (I believe this was, marilyn was stating several examples of how you were falling into the scumtells you defined), then heck off with that.
If you look at the whole game and not just today, you can see the gradual change in Marilyn's reads on me.To summarize, she said ""Is awesome, has done nothing but have good ideas in his post - Town" which reflected the views Linda and probably someone else had on me at the time. However, after Nicolette started criticizing my post she put me into the "neutral area". I don't think she made any posts stating why other than something like "oh yeah Nicolette made a good point, let me just change my reads". That seems to me like going with the flow. Then today, when there is momentum on my lynch, she put me top as scum. I think she provided the most reasons there. So yeah, hopefully you now understand what I meant.

Titus V. wrote:
Nicolette - Good analysis and deep insights regarding issues that have not been brought up before show a good attitude towards scumhunting. This is town because I highly doubt mafia will go this length to push someone without any clear reward. He also go against the flow which honestly is a good thing and appreciated. I really like his accusations - it's very logical but I do think it is sometimes too reliant on the fact that everyone plays optimally. Sometimes town play sub-optimally too, and as I said before, since hindsight is 20-20 it is possible to over look some obvious things.

the first part is townreading someone for having good content. This is a classic move almost always done by 1 of two kinds of players: lazy townie or scum. Honestly though, as I read more and more of titus's posts i'm thinking that either of these two options is entirely possible. The second part is fine and another reason I TR Nicolette.
Doesn't like everyone townreads Nicolette due to his good posts? Also it's not just good posts, Nicolette's posts stand out. Mafia has no reason to dig so deep pushing someone when there is no clear reward. Instead,
they capitalize on existing push and claims. I would like to know why you think it's lazy townie or scum.

Titus V. wrote:
Another thing I notice is that he seems to have a stronger reaction when Marilyn lynched him than Linda lynched him. Could mean nothing but a good note nevertheless. His defense is good though. Neutral - Leaning Scum

Linda's argument sucked. Marilyn's sucked, was full of cherrypicking, and had hypocrisy. One is worse than the other, which is why I pursued one over the other (I also scumread Linda but wasn't willing to pursue her because she didn't have the opportunity to defend herself. Silly? maybe, but I had other scumreads who were present and I could push).
I will check on this more, but it's still kinda funny that Marilyn accused me of hypocrisy like every other posted when she kind of did it too.

Titus V. wrote:
Yuzo - I will give him slight credit for lynching Linda though.

Why? Just for lynching, for the reasoning and the lynch, the way he went about it, etc?
Yuzo placed the second lynch on Linda, if he was mafia, I would think he would be a bit more reluctant to do so.

Marilyn M. wrote:
*stuff about the miller is in here*

I don't understand why Titus hypothesized that Marilyn was the mirror (he explains himself in later posts and that still doesn't make sense to me). Marilyn's explanation about him being mafia and thinking marilyn could be his scumbuddy is certainly viable but I can't really tell whether that's the case or he convinced himself with whatever reasoning he had that she was miller.
Basically, while I read everyone posts, I felt there was some reluctance to lynch Marilyn, especially during Day 2. While I did push her, I eventually dropped it since no one really believed what I said. Furthermore, Marilyn seems like the perfect target for night 1 inspection - considering she had the most votes after Amelia.Thus, I felt that the reason could be mafia got her as mafia. However, I gave her the benefit of doubt that she was town - and thus concluded that she is the town miller.

Marilyn M. wrote:Titus has suddenly become extremely active now that I scumread him, while he made basically no effort on day 2
Im going to steal Nicolettes scumread on Yuzo and say that on day 2 he was...

simply not paying attention, because they could afford to.

Now that they are a lynch target, he is paying alot of attention

agreed. Worth mentioning, though, that it is the weekend so its likely that everyone has more time now.
It make sense, but again this ignores motivations. Both town and mafia want to live, so why is it scummy thing to become active?

Titus V. wrote:
The classic argument of activity. I was pretty sure I had good posts during Day 2. Heck, many people said I was definite town early day 2 because I posted a lot. If I had not post a lot, I would be lynched. If I post a lot, you would say something like this. Come up with something better.

I'm going to check this now, because I don't remember much from you mid-day, only at the start. Give me a minute or two.

Comments in bold

Titus V. wrote:

O O. wrote:

Titus V. wrote:
Also, I would like to Lynch Marilyn for now just in case she comes in, lynches me and I die due to plurality since others are reluctant to lynch. Trust me, it has happened before and I do not want to die a silly death again. Just note that my lynch on marilyn is temporary - I will form my stance during my read list.

This is like.. done way too early. It's the start of the day, and titus has clearly had time to be around here for a while now, so i dont understand why he'd place a safety lynch like this at the start of the day.
It's not about me, it's about the other players in the game. Let's say something similar happen today except it's the other way round - Marilyn lynched me then we get into an argument bla bla bla. However, no one came online! Thus, all that argument was useless and I died by plurality. That is why I decided to lynch Marilyn first-
because I am sure that I am not busy this weekend. I even noted in the post that the lynch was temporary. You may find it unnecessary but is it really? Teaque had not say anything yet, Yuzo & Nicolette made a few posts but didn't went in depth about the Marilyn vs Titus and you just came now.

Titus V. wrote:
Oh... Who just said "I've never done a thing wrong in your life and you should know that" and lynch me in the next post? THEN you call me out for a sudden shift in reads? When you just said I tunnel you for 2 days. Good attempt at trying to coming up with reasons to justify your lynch, but let's face it, had I not lynch you, you wouldn't even lynch me. It just proves my point that I had to defend myself by lynching you first.

I don't understand how you missed that that was Linda's readslist. Especially for someone like Titus, that seems uncharacteristic. Breaking under the pressure or just an honest mistake?
Honest mistake.
Honest mistakes happen. But this is the second time you haven't completely read my post well

Titus V. wrote:
Sure, she may have provided reasons, but I believe she is going with the flow.

I remember reading this whole post and thinking something was completely wrong with it but i've now forgotten what it was. Leaving this here just in case I remember down the road.
Now the part remaining, is just... ????? if she's provided reasons,  screw whether she's going with the flow or not. Are the reasons a) valid and b) not just copied from someone else? If so, then saying she's just "going with the flow" is really not a fair way to dismiss someone else's read. If the reasons she had for lynching you were the exact same/very similar to what someone else said before lynching you, then I can understand doing so, but if the reasons are self-created (I believe this was, marilyn was stating several examples of how you were falling into the scumtells you defined), then heck off with that.
If you look at the whole game and not just today, you can see the gradual change in Marilyn's reads on me.To summarize, she said ""Is awesome, has done nothing but have good ideas in his post - Town" which reflected the views Linda and probably someone else had on me at the time. However, after Nicolette started criticizing my post she put me into the "neutral area". I don't think she made any posts stating why other than something like "oh yeah Nicolette made a good point, let me just change my reads". That seems to me like going with the flow. Then today, when there is momentum on my lynch, she put me top as scum. I think she provided the most reasons there. So yeah, hopefully you now understand what I meant.
And?
I've said this before and I don't believe you responded.
I townread you because I thought you had good posts. Nicolette then posted a bkg post on you, and I believed that the post had some good points, but I still had better scumreads, so you were just above Yuzo, who, at that point was middle ground. Am I not allowed to consider others opinions and use their reads?
Furthermore, if I provide plenty of evidence that hasn't been used before against you, and scunread you for it, I think it's hardly going eith the flow at all
Plus, in your reads list you had Yuzo at the top of your scum list, for, uhh, really I couldn't find anything you said that suggested he was scum. You just kinda put him there because he was getting lynched too. So instead of accusing me of going with the flow, make your own reads

Titus V. wrote:
Nicolette - Good analysis and deep insights regarding issues that have not been brought up before show a good attitude towards scumhunting. This is town because I highly doubt mafia will go this length to push someone without any clear reward. He also go against the flow which honestly is a good thing and appreciated. I really like his accusations - it's very logical but I do think it is sometimes too reliant on the fact that everyone plays optimally. Sometimes town play sub-optimally too, and as I said before, since hindsight is 20-20 it is possible to over look some obvious things.

the first part is townreading someone for having good content. This is a classic move almost always done by 1 of two kinds of players: lazy townie or scum. Honestly though, as I read more and more of titus's posts i'm thinking that either of these two options is entirely possible. The second part is fine and another reason I TR Nicolette.
Doesn't like everyone townreads Nicolette due to his good posts? Also it's not just good posts, Nicolette's posts stand out. Mafia has no reason to dig so deep pushing someone when there is no clear reward. Instead,
they capitalize on existing push and claims. I would like to know why you think it's lazy townie or scum.
Nicolette isn't the lazy one here. You are.

Titus V. wrote:
Another thing I notice is that he seems to have a stronger reaction when Marilyn lynched him than Linda lynched him. Could mean nothing but a good note nevertheless. His defense is good though. Neutral - Leaning Scum

Linda's argument sucked. Marilyn's sucked, was full of cherrypicking, and had hypocrisy. One is worse than the other, which is why I pursued one over the other (I also scumread Linda but wasn't willing to pursue her because she didn't have the opportunity to defend herself. Silly? maybe, but I had other scumreads who were present and I could push).
I will check on this more, but it's still kinda funny that Marilyn accused me of hypocrisy like every other posted when she kind of did it too.

Titus V. wrote:
Yuzo - I will give him slight credit for lynching Linda though.

Why? Just for lynching, for the reasoning and the lynch, the way he went about it, etc?
Yuzo placed the second lynch on Linda, if he was mafia, I would think he would be a bit more reluctant to do so.
This is supposed to mean mafia wouldn't lynch anyone?
Maybe Yuzo didn't think Linda was mafia, but capitalized on the bandwagon that was starting

Marilyn M. wrote:
*stuff about the miller is in here*

I don't understand why Titus hypothesized that Marilyn was the mirror (he explains himself in later posts and that still doesn't make sense to me). Marilyn's explanation about him being mafia and thinking marilyn could be his scumbuddy is certainly viable but I can't really tell whether that's the case or he convinced himself with whatever reasoning he had that she was miller.
Basically, while I read everyone posts, I felt there was some reluctance to lynch Marilyn, especially during Day 2. While I did push her, I eventually dropped it since no one really believed what I said. Furthermore, Marilyn seems like the perfect target for night 1 inspection - considering she had the most votes after Amelia.Thus, I felt that the reason could be mafia got her as mafia. However, I gave her the benefit of doubt that she was town - and thus concluded that she is the town miller.
People weren't reluctant to lynch because they got me as mafia, they were reluctant to lynch because your reasoning was terrible, and there were better targets

Marilyn M. wrote:Titus has suddenly become extremely active now that I scumread him, while he made basically no effort on day 2
Im going to steal Nicolettes scumread on Yuzo and say that on day 2 he was...

simply not paying attention, because they could afford to.

Now that they are a lynch target, he is paying alot of attention

agreed. Worth mentioning, though, that it is the weekend so its likely that everyone has more time now.
It make sense, but again this ignores motivations. Both town and mafia want to live, so why is it scummy thing to become active?

It's scummy that you were inactive for 2 dayswhen there was no pressure on you, but are suddenly able to become very active when there was a lynch on you. This shows you probably could have been active and scumhunt earlier, but you didn't. Because you could afford to

Titus V. wrote:
The classic argument of activity. I was pretty sure I had good posts during Day 2. Heck, many people said I was definite town early day 2 because I posted a lot. If I had not post a lot, I would be lynched. If I post a lot, you would say something like this. Come up with something better.

I'm going to check this now, because I don't remember much from you mid-day, only at the start. Give me a minute or two.

There was NOTHING from Titus in the last 2 days of day 2. People didn't scumread him enough for him to be lynched, so he dropped off the map, because he could afford to
Comments in bold

Comments in non-bold

Okay that post had gone on way too long so I'll just put it here:

1) Well an honest mistake... is an honest mistake. I am sorry that I used my emotions over logic. I rushed to make that post when I see you responded. It really was an honest mistake.

2) You can use other people reasoning to change your read list, but you didn't react to Nicolette at all when she accused me. That is what I find weird. Also about Yuzo: his posts was good, but not as good as you or Teaque. That is why he is in that position. I am not opposed to lynching OO over Yuzo by the way. Also, the fact that you said I don't have my own reads is very hurtful. Don't tell me I wrote that read-list without effort. It took a long time.

3) Again, you say I am "lazy" but that just hurts me more than anything. How? I put so much effort into this game with my thoughts, so sorry if it doesn't appear that way to you too? But please, do elaborate.

4) Well, why did Yuzo see the need, if he is indeed mafia, to lynch Linda and put her over 2 votes? I don't see mafia doing that.

5) Perhaps my reasoning was bad, but I did see some posts that agreed that your unlynch was iffy.

6) Again, here it is. I will just be honest with you here. Yes, I could have come online and said something. Yes, I cold have scumhunt while I overslept. I FULLY ADMIT that because I am not lynched, I slacked off a little bit. I valued sleep over this game. Then when today started, (it was also weekend), I valued the game over sleep. I will just say this though: Is this exclusive to the mafia only? If you are town and you have plurality, would you be more active? If Nicolette had 3 lynches on her, do you think she will post more today? Does that apply to Teaque? If you still think this is mafia only, then so be it. As I said before, I am willing to accept consequences for my sub-optimal plays.

I don't mind being lynched if it makes town realize that we must change the way we look at things: how we scumhunt, what logic we use in scumhunting etc. I don't need to explain here: my flip will reveal everything. Everything wrong with your theories etc. will be revealed by the flip. Now you may say, well it's not my fault, it's simply you played bad. Yes, you may say that, and I fully accept your opinion, but does it matter in Lylo? No, the only thing that matter is "THE MAFIA WAS LYNCHED!" If you continue to use this kind of logic, you may lynch a bad townie instead. Please re-evaluate what you will do tomorrow. I will still be here to make posts like this of course. We all play to win and have fun (which I had a lot of the latter!) so hopefully we pull through.

Also @Marilyn: Could you tell me what your strategy if I flip scum? Who would you lynch next? What if I flip town? Who do you think are the mafia?

I am making a post about Yuzo and OO and another one about cop inspects so get hyped!!!

Also: What happened to everyone else?

"Yuzo - Here we go again with the weird unlynching for no reason on Day 1. I didn't think much of his views of vig claiming, but I do like his post that you shouldn't town read everyone that makes good post because it is also in the mafia best interest to make good posts and appear townie. It is important to look at motives. From reading his posts, he kinda remind me of OO. A little passive side, but did provide good thoughts. I do think his mistakes are town-motivated. Sure, it's not optimal plays but I can see myself making those kinds of mistakes too. I will give him slight credit for lynching Linda though. I would rank him around the same scumminess level as OO."

I think the most important line here is "a little passive, but did provide good thoughts". Let met guide you to some examples. Take his post before Day 3.

On Day 1 - he lynched Lila and unlynched Lila because she hasn't done anything bad or noteworthy. Well, I could go on a lot about why I don't like this but I have learned my lessons. He didn't do much afterwards except commenting on whether it is wise to give vig choices etc. It didn't lead to anything really and it felt confusing. This is one of the reason why I think he's passive, he didn't really suggest anything, just commented on others and didn't make it clear at that what he wanted. Compare that to say, Marilyn who explicitly made it very clear what vig should do and Teaque who wrote a read list day 1.

I liked his post about the motives behind posting, but it does seem to reflect what Nicolette said regarding me and how town shouldn't just townread me based on good posts. Possibly, he said that in order to make us doubt Nicolette a little bit, considering mafia can't kill in this theme. Note, however, that he never directly commented on Nicolette post about her thoughts.

Then, he said he had a feeling Lila was town but never said anything about it until Lila claims vig. It felt to me like trying to gain town cred, and the way he said it is more of a reaction than making his own statement. Basically all of his post seems to be reaction to something rather than his own thoughts.

The next post worthy of attention is his semi readlist. This what a basically "impressions of people" he had things to say about - Lila, Marilyn and Linda. Why these 3 only? Surely, you could have said something about Nicolette or me. He summarized his thoughts regarding Lila, post good thoughts about Marilyn but the interesting part is Linda. If I recall correctly, he never mentioned Linda intensively up until that post. Plus, the fact that he only chose 3 people to write his thoughts meant that he must have some serious things to say about her. Therefore, I felt that read was very weird. I could see Marilyn's point being true here, but I also think that it's a really bad play if he's mafia. Perhaps he felt pressured to lynch "to make him clear" since he agreed with me that mafias are reluctant to lynch.

Another thing that highlights is passiveness is this: he promised a most to least scummiest list but never did it. He said he would continue his reads today but mainly had just reacted to Nicolette. He also said he wanted to look into OO and Marilyn's argument but didn't do so.

With that said, I do like his defense against Nicolette but again that just highlights the "reactive" nature of his posts rather than making his own claims. It would be nice to see a read list from you.

Hopefully, now you can understand better about my reads regarding him.

One more thing @Yuzo: Do you think Claudina lynching me day 1 out of the blue was scummy?

Scum ----> town

Titus, O, Yuzo, Teaque, Nicolette

Marilyn out
(Please note my arm may still be lingering around. It IS leaving, it just takes longer than my body, due to its length)

I have a feeling no matter what I say will be enough to convince Marilyn otherwise. Well hopefully she does at least make changes to her scumhunting plans and we can pull through in the end.

Titus V. wrote:
This is like.. done way too early. It's the start of the day, and titus has clearly had time to be around here for a while now, so i dont understand why he'd place a safety lynch like this at the start of the day.
It's not about me, it's about the other players in the game. Let's say something similar happen today except it's the other way round - Marilyn lynched me then we get into an argument bla bla bla. However, no one came online! Thus, all that argument was useless and I died by plurality. That is why I decided to lynch Marilyn first-
because I am sure that I am not busy this weekend. I even noted in the post that the lynch was temporary. You may find it unnecessary but is it really? Teaque had not say anything yet, Yuzo & Nicolette made a few posts but didn't went in depth about the Marilyn vs Titus and you just came now.

I was the first poster of the day, and the reason you were able to plurshift onto Marilyn? Teaque and Nicolette are fairly active? This still seems like an extremely paranoid move, especiall because it was on the first day. Any later and I might understand (depends on how late) but that early? no way. The reason it looks bad is because of the timing, not the action.

Titus V. wrote:
Honest mistake.

Fair enough.

Titus V. wrote:
If you look at the whole game and not just today, you can see the gradual change in Marilyn's reads on me.To summarize, she said ""Is awesome, has done nothing but have good ideas in his post - Town" which reflected the views Linda and probably someone else had on me at the time. However, after Nicolette started criticizing my post she put me into the "neutral area". I don't think she made any posts stating why other than something like "oh yeah Nicolette made a good point, let me just change my reads". That seems to me like going with the flow. Then today, when there is momentum on my lynch, she put me top as scum. I think she provided the most reasons there. So yeah, hopefully you now understand what I meant.

she started the momentum on your lynch today though, no? Otherwise I suppose I can understand what you're saying but I think it's just her adjusting her reads based on what nicolette said (which is fine) and pursuing a scumread today (which is fine).

Titus V. wrote:
Doesn't like everyone townreads Nicolette due to his good posts? Also it's not just good posts, Nicolette's posts stand out. Mafia has no reason to dig so deep pushing someone when there is no clear reward. Instead,
they capitalize on existing push and claims. I would like to know why you think it's lazy townie or scum.

yeah, doing so means they're lazy town or scum who doesn't want to analyze and look at a long wallpost (or just scum in general). the second part you just described is tunneling which i don't think you meant to do, but regardless pushing a strong wagon on somebody is something mafia would want to do, as then nobody would want to counter it and they can get a lynch off easily (i'm not calling nicolette mafia, i'm explaining why the reasoning you're putting forth is flawed). I also meant the reader is lazy town/scum, not nicolette.

Titus V. wrote:
I will check on this more, but it's still kinda funny that Marilyn accused me of hypocrisy like every other posted when she kind of did it too.

yeah lol i noticed that one too

Titus V. wrote:
Yuzo placed the second lynch on Linda, if he was mafia, I would think he would be a bit more reluctant to do so.

still not understanding this. why is him being the second lynch relevant? why would he be reluctant?

Titus V. wrote:
Basically, while I read everyone posts, I felt there was some reluctance to lynch Marilyn, especially during Day 2. While I did push her, I eventually dropped it since no one really believed what I said. Furthermore, Marilyn seems like the perfect target for night 1 inspection - considering she had the most votes after Amelia.Thus, I felt that the reason could be mafia got her as mafia. However, I gave her the benefit of doubt that she was town - and thus concluded that she is the town miller.

I guess that's a possibility but it seems a little far-fetched. Especially given that everyone did it rather than one or two people, i'm more inclined to believe that what people were saying (that marilyn's defense RE: the unlynch was good) is more the case than not.

Titus V. wrote:
It make sense, but again this ignores motivations. Both town and mafia want to live, so why is it scummy thing to become active?

the point marilyn made was that you were fairly inactive yesterday but were a ton more active today. i was explaining that this could be because it is a weekend and not necessarily because you are being lynched.

In the future, please please please do what I did here because reading this is a MASSIVE pain.

Titus V. wrote:I have a feeling no matter what I say will be enough to convince Marilyn otherwise. Well hopefully she does at least make changes to her scumhunting plans and we can pull through in the end.

oh dear god this post absolutely REEKS of scum (the second part moreso than the rest)

Unlynch Marilyn

Marilyn M. wrote:. Congratulations Marilyn. Don't think you are completely off my radar though

Pretend i'm lynching titus right now. don't want opportunistic scum to hammer, should he actually be town.[/quote]

In response to OO:

1) I know I will be active. I don't know if others will. I would rather lynch Marilyn now and unlynch later (stated in the post I made) then be up to the mercy of other people.

2) Technically, the lynch began with Teaque, not Marilyn. So, I don't really know if you can say Marilyn started the momentum when the only person that followed was Nicolette (who already moved on to Yuzo).

3) I think we disagree here. If Nicolette is mafia, then she would be the very rare ones that put this much effort to push someone without a clear reward. I think the obvious scum move for Nicolette would be agreeing with what Marilyn said and lynch me instead. That's a way easier push than Yuzo. Yet, the fact that Nicolette inclined on believing her own posts make me believe she is town.

4) Yuzo being second to lynch Linda is relevant because it was not a last-ditch effort to gain cred. Also, as I said before, mafias are more reluctant to lynch in general. I gave him slight credit for lynching Linda because jumping on a lynch doesn't seem like a good idea from a mafia perspective. Look at my analysis of Yuzo for more details.

5) It's a theory, nevertheless. If you think it's far-fetched then fine.

6) I don't think activity should EVER be a reason for scumhunting. I will explain again, and hopefully, the last time. Mafia and Town both want to win, so they will defend themselves. The fact that any player becomes more active should be appreciated, not look down upon.

7) You may think it reeks of scum, but as I said, I don't think I will survive today. The best I can do today is to warn you guys that you should re-evaluate your scumhunting strategies so you don't lynch a "bad town" like me. I don't care if you think posts like this are scummy or whatever. I would rather die and win in the end then looking from sidelines and seeing town making mistakes on LYLO.

Why would scum hammer today? I think that would be a bad play for mafia.

Titus V. wrote:1) I know I will be active. I don't know if others will. I would rather lynch Marilyn now and unlynch later (stated in the post I made) then be up to the mercy of other people.

again, i understand the reasoning, but to do so that early shows paranoia. excessive amounts of paranoia, even.

Titus V. wrote:
2) Technically, the lynch began with Teaque, not Marilyn. So, I don't really know if you can say Marilyn started the momentum when the only person that followed was Nicolette (who already moved on to Yuzo).

oh, didn't realize that. Ignore me on that, then. iirc she did bring up points that teaque did not bring up, so whichever part of my post referred to original content does still stand.

Titus V. wrote:
3) I think we disagree here. If Nicolette is mafia, then she would be the very rare ones that put this much effort to push someone without a clear reward. I think the obvious scum move for Nicolette would be agreeing with what Marilyn said and lynch me instead. That's a way easier push than Yuzo. Yet, the fact that Nicolette inclined on believing her own posts make me believe she is town.

that's more of a playstyle thing, imo. Nicolette is clearly a dedicated player, and I think she would be putting in this much effort regardless of whether she is scum or town. Going against the grain is a great way to establish yourself as a townie presence because its incredibly difficult to pull off while still remaining to seem like a town player (as scum).

Titus V. wrote:
4) Yuzo being second to lynch Linda is relevant because it was not a last-ditch effort to gain cred. Also, as I said before, mafias are more reluctant to lynch in general. I gave him slight credit for lynching Linda because jumping on a lynch doesn't seem like a good idea from a mafia perspective. Look at my analysis of Yuzo for more details.

Got it. I've given credit to yuzo for the lynch too, but i wasn't really understanding why his placement mattered or was relevant to that (until now).

Titus V. wrote:
5) It's a theory, nevertheless. If you think it's far-fetched then fine.

true, but there are a lot of theories that aren't the case. it being far-fetched doesn't really help me (or i assume other people, but that may not be true) think it's the likely case / cause, especially when there's a more viable one available.

Titus V. wrote:
6) I don't think activity should EVER be a reason for scumhunting. I will explain again, and hopefully, the last time. Mafia and Town both want to win, so they will defend themselves. The fact that any player becomes more active should be appreciated, not look down upon.

I think it's a fair reason to start applying pressure, but certainly not something that should be the cornerstone of an argument. I agree that it's good for people to become more active, regardless of their motivations. the activity thing was just brought up in relation to you coasting before now, afaik.

Titus V. wrote:
7) You may think it reeks of scum, but as I said, I don't think I will survive today. The best I can do today is to warn you guys that you should re-evaluate your scumhunting strategies so you don't lynch a "bad town" like me. I don't care if you think posts like this are scummy or whatever. I would rather die and win in the end then looking from sidelines and seeing town making mistakes on LYLO.

I guess. I've just seen these kinds of posts from both town and scum, and yours strikes me as one scum would make. There's no real way to defend yourself from that, for which I apologize, but my gut feelings on those have rarely been wrong.
I am only human though, so I can of course be wrong, but nonetheless its something that does change my opinion a fair amount.

Titus V. wrote:
8 ) Why would scum hammer today? I think that would be a bad play for mafia.

Potentially someone who could be a lynch target today and likely will be tomorrow trying to end the day and survive another night. I don't really know why they'd hammer, but its much better to be safe than sorry.

1) Better safe than sorry. I have been lynched due to inactive town many times before. I also anticipated many of these kinds of comment and I thought I made it very clear that it was temporary.

2) I agree but it just doesn't make sense in this case, in my opinion. Why she chose Yuzo is an interesting question, when Yuzo seems to be quite scummy to many people. Isn't it better to push against someone townier, which would benefit her more?

3) Let's just drop that theory. It was more of an after-thought and was some sort of personal justification that Marilyn is town.

4) If the player is active, why does applying pressure regarding that activity achieve?

5) That's exactly what I meant by my post of re-evaluating your strategies. Since you said you've seen a lot of these post and your gut says this is mafia, you believe that I am mafia. However, when I die, your theory will be proven false. If you do not re-evaluate how you are scumhunting, then you may repeat the same mistakes tomorrow. My death is insignificant compared to the outcome of the game.

6) I could see that, but hammering raises a lot of unnecessary suspicion.

I want to ask a favor for all of you that will be useful for me. I already asked this for Marilyn, but she kinda didn't answer what I expected so let me ask everyone again:

1) If I flip mafia, who do you think should be lynched next (i.e. who is likely my partner)?

2) If I flip town, who do you think are the last 2 mafia?

I know this may be weird to ask but it will really help me.

Titus V. wrote:1) Better safe than sorry. I have been lynched due to inactive town many times before. I also anticipated many of these kinds of comment and I thought I made it very clear that it was temporary.

touché. I just can't get over it, i suppose.

Titus V. wrote:
2) I agree but it just doesn't make sense in this case, in my opinion. Why she chose Yuzo is an interesting question, when Yuzo seems to be quite scummy to many people. Isn't it better to push against someone townier, which would benefit her more?

its entirely possible that she tried and couldn't build a case. one of the things about being townier is that its a lot harder to build a case against you.

Titus V. wrote:
3) Let's just drop that theory. It was more of an after-thought and was some sort of personal justification that Marilyn is town.

alright, fair enough.

Titus V. wrote:
4) If the player is active, why does applying pressure regarding that activity achieve?

Nothing really, unless they're not being as active as they could be. I also wouldn't describe you as active yesterday. i'd give that to marilyn and myself, and that's pretty much it.

Titus V. wrote:
5) That's exactly what I meant by my post of re-evaluating your strategies. Since you said you've seen a lot of these post and your gut says this is mafia, you believe that I am mafia. However, when I die, your theory will be proven false. If you do not re-evaluate how you are scumhunting, then you may repeat the same mistakes tomorrow. My death is insignificant compared to the outcome of the game.

I guess so. What precisely would you suggest be re-evaluated, though? scumhunting methods? scumhunting targets? content of posts? everything?

Titus V. wrote:I want to ask a favor for all of you that will be useful for me. I already asked this for Marilyn, but she kinda didn't answer what I expected so let me ask everyone again:

1) If I flip mafia, who do you think should be lynched next (i.e. who is likely my partner)?

2) If I flip town, who do you think are the last 2 mafia?

I know this may be weird to ask but it will really help me.

1) by basis of being scummy i'd say marilyn, by basis of being your partner.... i have no idea. gutreading is one thing i'm good at, but figuring out associations is one that i'm not.
2) marilyn and either teaque or yuzo.

Votecount 3.2
******************************
Titus V.(2)- Teaque Q., Marilyn M.
Yuzo K.(1)- Nicolette D.
Marilyn M.(0)-
O O.(0)-
Teaque Q.(0)-
Nicolette D.(0)-
Not Voting(3)- Yuzo K., Titus V., O O.
******************************
There are 6 alive so it takes 4 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Monday the 10th at 9pm EST.

If the deadline was now, Titus V. would be lynched.

i've done some thinking, and from interacting with him and reading his defense, titus does actually seem like town to me. granted, that "oh no im dead good luck town!!" post still looks absolutely terrible to me, but I'm feeling like he may not actually be scum.
with that being said, i'm moving back to marilyn, so Lynch Marilyn M.

still havent exactly found out WHY she cherrypicked (she's admitted that she did so so there's gotta be a reason, no?) and I very much didn't like her defense of my tearing apart her argument.

i'll try to make it back before deadline but i can't guarantee it

in case i don't, i urge everyone to look more closely at the points i brought up about marilyn yesterday, the case on titus + his defense, and the things brought up about other people as well and then make your own decision.
i think that yes, marilyn's defense of herself during the unlynch was townie, but the real reason i think she is scummy is for her eodl arguments yesterday. admittedly, i don't remember seeing too much from her today that struck me as scummy.

I have a lot to respond to / talk about, so here goes.

Yuzo, you have to realize that I don't care what you think about the Lila bandwagon when it comes to my sr on you, and not once have I defended it up to now. That was never part of my argument against you, and bringing that up at this moment only seems to me like you're trying to derail my argument by throwing in unnecessary elements, and divert attention from the main issue at hand. That being said, I will justify my Lila bandwagon now; simply put, she was scummy af. There was that whole fiasco with her calling people out for not bothering to look at the rolelist, when she missed the traitor element of this setup herself. She also tried to direct attention to you when you were still lurking, right after she made that mistake, in an attempt to shift discussion away from herself; after that attempt, she literally disappeared before coming back and claiming vig.

You seriously can't just write off my theories as "poorly thought out" without even actively trying to refute it. Both of these theories would explain why you made the actions you made; can you tell me why these explanations wouldn't be possible, or at least highly unlikely?

You also haven't provided an explanation as to why your lynch on Linda was legitimate; you just said it was, and then complained about Marilyn's lynch on them being equally scummy. I, on the other hand, called out said lynch reasoning as weak and even provided evidence for it; are you going to ignore that as well? Will you ever provide an actual counterargument and provide specific examples to prove your point? This is what i'm talking about when I say your arguments/reasonings are weak.

I also just noticed that nowhere in your lynch linda post did you ever refer to her "being too lynch happy and bandwagoning with no personal opinion"? (i've quoted that post in an earlier post, so go check it out) Did you add on those explanations in an attempt to make it seem like you had a legitimate reason for lynching them?

As for why I don't scumread Marilyn for jumping on the bandwagon last minute, it's because she has given me a lot of things to townread her for. Her defense for the unlynch debacle d1 was one thing, but she's also been very articulate about her accusations against O. O. and Titus, and in the case of the latter, and has demonstrated active scumhunting. What have you done that makes you townier than anyone else left in this game?

Everybody unlynching Lila just made her an obvious vig claim, but not necessarily a confirmed vig. I honestly thought there was a good shot of her not being the true vig, because she didn't even bother to make a counterargument for all the allegations made against her, and instead decided on falling back to a vig claim for everyone to get off them. You also need to understand that my biggest trigger when it comes to your trying to talk to Lila isn't the fact that you initiated the conversation in the first place, but that you didn't bother to express dissent or provide counterarguments as to why we should try to draw information out of her. So I'll ask again: what kind of town player blatantly ignores an order in an obviously desperate situation without questioning the original poster about it?

I'm seeing a recurring theme in your defense against my allegations, and it's that you're making counterarguments to smaller points in my overall argument, and have consistently failed to answer the parts I emphasized most (e.g. why you ignored my call for everyone to shut up about Lila and decided to talk to her anyway, why my theories wouldn't explain your actions, WHY YOU AREN'T SCUM etc). You also consistently fail to give specific examples or back up your arguments with evidence when presenting a counterargument against my allegations, so your argument simply flops; in turn, you brush off all of the evidence I present to you.

Continuing on non-Yuzo posts.

Marilyn, the only reason I did that whole unlynch truce was because you had plurality when I lynched Yuzo the first time, and I wanted you alive; I plurshifted onto Titus and forced them to unlynch you so that you wouldn't get plurhammered by accident.

In terms of the Marilyn - Titus debate, I mostly agree with Marilyn's point of view, as well as O. O.'s comments on it. The activity spike is weird, the miller speculation felt like an attempt to gain himself towncred that backfired, and the lynch on Marilyn to "ensure plurhammer doesn't happen" seemed way too early. A couple more points that I'd like to bring up about Titus: the readlist is weak in the sense that the strongest scumread Titus has is O. O. at "Neutral - Leaning Scum". Do you seriously not have any better opinions on who you think is scum, to the point where you have a bunch of people at different varying levels of neutral? Will you bother to give your opinion on me vs Yuzo other than "oh well i respect Nicolette's reads, so i'd probably lynch Yuzo over O. O."?  Are you going to actively pursue this said scumread on O. O. and articulate what specifically about their posts you find scummy? (If i've missed any such instances, could you point it out?) All of your talk this day has been defense, and you haven't been actively scumhunting, which I don't like.

On a sidenote, we should seriously stop townreading/scumreading people over "post quality" or whatever, because literally anyone can come up with their opinions on every other player and make a readlist, or make speculations on setup. Instead, we should be judging each other based on reaction to pressure, active scumhunting, and slips.

I have to go; I have more stuff to say about page 11, which i will get to later.

Nicolette D. wrote:Continuing on non-Yuzo posts.

Marilyn, the only reason I did that whole unlynch truce was because you had plurality when I lynched Yuzo the first time, and I wanted you alive; I plurshifted onto Titus and forced them to unlynch you so that you wouldn't get plurhammered by accident.

In terms of the Marilyn - Titus debate, I mostly agree with Marilyn's point of view, as well as O. O.'s comments on it. The activity spike is weird, the miller speculation felt like an attempt to gain himself towncred that backfired, and the lynch on Marilyn to "ensure plurhammer doesn't happen" seemed way too early. A couple more points that I'd like to bring up about Titus: the readlist is weak in the sense that the strongest scumread Titus has is O. O. at "Neutral - Leaning Scum". Do you seriously not have any better opinions on who you think is scum, to the point where you have a bunch of people at different varying levels of neutral? Will you bother to give your opinion on me vs Yuzo other than "oh well i respect Nicolette's reads, so i'd probably lynch Yuzo over O. O."?  Are you going to actively pursue this said scumread on O. O. and articulate what specifically about their posts you find scummy? (If i've missed any such instances, could you point it out?) All of your talk this day has been defense, and you haven't been actively scumhunting, which I don't like.

On a sidenote, we should seriously stop townreading/scumreading people over "post quality" or whatever, because literally anyone can come up with their opinions on every other player and make a readlist, or make speculations on setup. Instead, we should be judging each other based on reaction to pressure, active scumhunting, and slips.

I have to go; I have more stuff to say about page 11, which i will get to later.

1) I mean, I have explained my activity already. I don't have anymore to say rather than repeating the same arguments: any activity should be appreciated, both town and mafia want to live so why is it scummy to have to an activity spike, I overslept on Day 2 because I didn't have much urgency to come and post (yes, I admitted that) and thus I valued sleep over this game.

2) I am not trying to get town cred. Actually, how do I gain any credibility by bringing it up? It's just personal justification. I didn't even let it affect my reads on Marilyn.

3) I don't understand why it's so bad to lynch early. I know I will be here and can unlynch whenever, so why not?

4) No, actually not. I don't have a clear scum-read. That's why I havn't really pushed anyone. I just typed that read-list by looking back at everyone posts and write my thought on it. Nothing really stood out much, except the fact that I found Yuzo and OO to be quite passive in their posts. Their reactive nature is why I ranked them as most likely to be scum, but I realized that it could have been a matter of play style, so I didn't want to say they are definitely scum. The whole scale of my read lists can be brought down a little to make it OO/Yuzo = Scum, Marilyn = Neutral, Teaque = Leaning Town and Nicolette = Town and it wouldn't have made a difference.

5) I made a whole post explaining my reads on Yuzo that had different arguments than the one you made.

6) I will pressure OO if I live until tomorrow, but I don't see the need today when he has been consistently replying to my posts while Yuzo didn't even come online. I will make a detailed analysis of OO similar to the one I made for Yuzo today though.

7) Well, I did made one huge post about Yuzo, so it's not all defense (even though the majority of it is).

If I am one of those people that you think is townreading based on post quality, I am not. I have given many reasons why you are town based on motives. (Kinda awkward to explain this tbh lol).

^^^ I have a feeling that post could cause some confusion, so let me elaborate on some points.

1) "I havn't really pushed anyone." I meant this in reference to the fact that apart from Marilyn, I never started to pressure anyone really. No one really stood out to me so I made my read list, and while yes, I scum-read both OO and Yuzo, made posts about them but I didn't do anything to "pressure" per se.

2) I will pressure OO if I live until tomorrow Yeah screw that I have NO IDEA why I said that, considering I am most likely dead anyways. So screw waiting, screw not pressuring, screw living until tomorrow. I am making of everything today. Posts regarding OO incoming.