Game 30: Separated Scum

Titus V. wrote:

Nicolette D. wrote:1) point taken about responding to claudina. however, this doesn't address the fact that you didn't tackle what was obviously scummy behavior as detailed by your earlier post.

2) again, the important part is that you were the one that brought up that scumtell in the first place, and you didn't take action on someone who so obviously tripped said scumtell.

3) it might seem like i'm repeating the same point over and over, but you've seriously failed to address this point. you failed to take action against an obviously scummy action based on standards that you yourself set. it's not about whether you could've gotten claudina lynched or not; it's about how you failed to even mention how claudina's post was a perfect example of a scumtell. you haven't denied that claudina's post itself was scummy, and yet in your own response to her lynch on you, you just say "i don't have much to say when your lynch is a gut feeling," when you could've said so much more in conjunction with your scumtell post from earlier.

4+5) i feel like marilyn justified herself well enough on unlynching teaque, but that's just me. the fact still stands that you weren't really pushing the marilyn lynch either; you just let your vote stay without commenting much on it and let the plur on amelia go through.

i also despise the fact that you're trying to acknowledge my post quality, but give your half-hearted attempt at debunking my points, especially because you haven't addressed the most important issue at hand - you not addressing claudina's scumminess in reference to your scumtell post - when it was so easy for you to do. it seems like you're just trying to win me over and convince me that you're town. i'm not buying it. i'd appreciate everyone else give their two cents on this.

My point was simple: Mafias are reluctant to lynch because their lynch are riskier. If anything, Claudina's scummy behavior was "lynching for no reason despite saying it herself that lynches day 1 are bullshit". She never tripped any of my said scumtell. If she for example, said, I find Titus to be scummy because of these reasons YET do not lynch, now THAT's scummy. She did the opposite: lynching without saying why I am scummy. If you read my posts carefully, that is the total opposite of my scumtell. If Claudina was really mafia, why would she lynch for no reason? Surely it must be better to just lurk in the background. Please don't assume that if you think Claudina was scummy, I should too. Heck, I could push Marilyn if you want, I still think she's scummy especially when she said she uled because that was RVS and she had another lynch in mind, but the fact that she lynched Amelia just to save herself means she doesn't really have a target in mind.
Lynch Marilyn.

While i don't exactly agree with your opinion on claudina's post, I'm willing to table this argument, since you've at least come on and provided an argument. Also points on how quickly you replied tbh
One think that I still disagree on is that I think Claudina's randlynch onto you was still indicative of your scumtell, and not the opposite, since the randlynch wouldn't have affected plur/d1 result in any way, and "gut read" is an easy excuse for later if it were to come in to question.
also don't say stuff like "i could push marilyn if you want;" it makes it seem like you're trying to make that a reason to lynch them, when it isn't. all you needed to say there was "i find them scummy" right? it's unnecessary.

Titus V. wrote:Nevermind, that is not all for now. But I do think this point is important to mention!!!

Another scumtell is a sudden shift of reads. If mafia lynched someone, they might inspect that person, which would reveal whether they are actually mafia or town. Thus, if someone scumreads a person and just mysteriously backs off, it could be worth looking into. This is why a read-list is super important.

(Incoming replies be like: That's obvious! Stop trying to get town cred! Why would you reveal that info! Now mafia won't do that!)

I completely agree with this post, and i think it still has merit regardless of the "mentioning this point ruins the point itself" shenanigans, since it forces scum to be vigilant from another standpoint when making their story. Not going to read you as town or scum for this, though, since it makes perfect sense for you to mention this as both.
All in all though, I'm willing to table my case on titus, considering the way (and the speed in which) they responded to my argument with one of their own. I still want everyone's opinion on my interaction with titus though.
I'm also moving them down on my scum list, with Lila taking the top spot now. thus,
unlynch titus v, lynch lila c.
also an earlier version of this post disappeared when i clicked send, and i'm rewriting this. if you guys see both versions pop up, sorry.

i'll try to summarize my argument for O. O. but i might do a crappy job at it.
basically titus first mentioned that scum wouldn't actively lynch anyone, and would instead opt to not lynch at all, or lynch someone who has plur. this point i agree with, but claudina made this post, about a few posts after titus's original post:

Claudina W. wrote:
I'm just clueless ok. Most reasons to lynch day 1 are bullshit, and I'd rather not. The problem is that I would want to NL, but this theme doesn't allow us to, as that gives scum time to find eachother. Guess I'll have to go with my gut for now and Lynch Titus V.

while Titus did respond, all they said was "it's fine to lynch me, but i can't really respond to this unless you give me an explanation other than 'gut read'" (or something along those lines). my problem with this is that there was so much more to question in that post, especially in reference to titus's earlier post. while titus is trying to make it seem like claudina's post is the exact opposite of their earlier scumtell, while i heavily disagree. my argument is that titus knowingly disregarded the scummy parts of claudina's post in order to inspect them the following night. read titus's posts pertaining to me to read about their argument, because i'm not paraphrasing that for obvious reasons.
man i just posted something about tabling this argument and here i am again ;~;
here's titus's original post that i'm mentioning:

Titus V. wrote:Hello there, it's my second post!

Well here's what I think. I usually like to scumhunt by putting myself in the mafia's shoes. So here goes: I doubt mafia really wants to lynch anyone day 1. Let's put it this way - it hurts more for them to lose a member than for town to lose a townie (unless vig). So I speculate that they might not lynch at all, or lynch someone that doesn't have plurality. Having said that, I will
Lynch Marilyn
for weak reasoning to unlynch.

thanks for the summary, nicolette.
I can see the point you're making where Titus potentially could have mostly ignored the lynch to just inspect her on the next night, but I honestly don't think that's the case.
I agree with Titus, though. I don't really see how that post falls into the same kind of scumtell that Titus was talking about; while Claudina does say that she doesn't want to lynch, she explains why she doesn't do so and then goes with a gutread. I think titus's response to this (asking for more information because its literally impossible to debate a gutread lol) is fine as well.
I suppose if you're saying this follows the part of "lynching someone that doesn't have plurality" i can see where it applies, but i'll be honest and say that when thinking about the arguments both of you brought up, I completely forgot that that point was brought up (it seems like more of an afterthought in the post itself) and it's possible that titus himself also forgot about this being the case.

Titus V. wrote:Also, just some thoughts for these players:


@Marilyn: Can you explain why you unlynch Teaque when he didn't have pluraity and you didn't have anyone else in mind?.

That's all for now folks!

I don't understand why you are still going on about this.
I lynched Teaque in RVS. At that point in the day, nobody else had any sort of scumread on TQ, and neither did I, so my vote was being wasted just sitting on TQ. The problem was, at that point, I wasn't sure who I wanted lynched. So I decided to hold my lunch until later when there had been more posts. When I went to cast my vote, I was a lynxhcaway from having Plur on me. In order to prevent my death, I lynched Amelia
That is mostly repeating what I said day 1 but I don't know what else there is to say on the matter

Titus V. wrote:Nevermind, that is not all for now. But I do think this point is important to mention!!!

Another scumtell is a sudden shift of reads. If mafia lynched someone, they might inspect that person, which would reveal whether they are actually mafia or town. Thus, if someone scumreads a person and just mysteriously backs off, it could be worth looking into. This is why a read-list is super important.

(Incoming replies be like: That's obvious! Stop trying to get town cred! Why would you reveal that info! Now mafia won't do that!)

Both myself and Nicolette have mentioned this. Either read others posts or stop stealing ideas

O O. wrote:

Linda G. wrote:
this is what I meant with the underlined part, collapse ur quotes. that post is large AF to just ask for clarification over eight words.

the bolded part is essentially you did nothing D1, absolutely nothing. people can go back and check, D1 was less than two pages long. you come in late with some insight on yesterday, a day that's already over. then you check the thread more often than anyone else apparently, and help out Lila with setup talk. but then while pointing out the setup talk, you gloss over your own slip.

fair enough

i posted every time i came on and had something to say, which was exactly twice on the last day (not counting rl post because lol)
deadline hit before I got home and could see all the things said after my last post, and i commented with my opinion on the only topic there I thought would be relevant to today (along with the vig whoopsie)
if you're gonna fault me for that then that's your decision but I think it's a silly one

as to why i was checking the thread more often lately, two reasons: I was on public transportation with free wifi and nothing to do, and it's the 4th of july weekend so i've got some free time, unlike during the week when that isn't really the case.
missing that vig is 1shot after c/ping the text makes me feel extremely stupid but there's nothing i can really do about my own mistake; don't really see how that would get you any towncred since in the other situation where this happened (lila i think) I didn't/nobody else seems to have seen that as something that would give her towncred, just a mistake on her part.

Marilyn M. wrote:
When I posted it, I did feel like i was making a rather large deal out of it, but I was the counterwagon, and was a plurshift away from dying, so I think defending myself like that was justifiable

if you're not talking about the unlynch ignore me, but i don't see how that post of yours was a defense? It just seemed excessive in the way you did it. Didn't really see any sort of defense for yourself in there.

Titus V. wrote:
@O O: Can you please explain why you think Marilyn made a big deal of her unlynch? And why you think her unlynch was justified?

I don't really think that you need a solid reason to unlynch someone, especially on d1. her lynch was just an activity one (i assume) and unlynching was for the purpose of going to a better lynch (in this case one to save herself)
I think she made an excessive amount of like... emphasis on her lynch. It was like "I GUESS i'll unlynch Teaque even though he hasn't posted anything...." Reading it just seemed off and it felt kinda fake when I did so.

Titus V. wrote:Nevermind, that is not all for now. But I do think this point is important to mention!!!

Another scumtell is a sudden shift of reads. If mafia lynched someone, they might inspect that person, which would reveal whether they are actually mafia or town. Thus, if someone scumreads a person and just mysteriously backs off, it could be worth looking into. This is why a read-list is super important.

(Incoming replies be like: That's obvious! Stop trying to get town cred! Why would you reveal that info! Now mafia won't do that!)

That's obvious! Stop trying to get town cred! Why would you reveal that info! Now mafia won't do that!
I suppose I can redact my previous point about not needing a reason to unlynch, then. It still definitely stands for d1 though. Good point here by Titus overall, worth looking into why people unlynch others.

The post I was referring to was the one after I unlynched

Second point:You do know you can delete things you typed halfway through a post
You make a point about UL'img, then in this SAME POST, you say, disregard what's I said about ULing
Just delete the thing you said about ULing and stop pretending you wrote 2 useful paragraphs

1) ah oops ignore me then

2) "I suppose I can redact my previous point about not needing a reason to unlynch, then. It still definitely stands for d1 though. Good point here by Titus overall, worth looking into why people unlynch others."

that's why i didnt delete it. I'm saying that my point about uling in general doesnt stand but titus's point doesn't really affect d1 uling, imo.
If you're wondering, i didn't modify the post at all based on this info because i didnt want to muck up the original message of the post

Danke, that makes sense now

Hiroki said he would be back by now, where are you? ;-;

Votecount 2.1
******************************
Lila C.(2)- Marilyn M., Nicolette D.
O O.(1)- Linda G.
Marilyn M.(1)- Titus V.
Titus V.(0)-
Linda G.(0)-
Teaque Q.(0)-
Yuzo K.(0)-
Hiroki M.(0)-
Nicolette D.(0)-
Not Voting(6)- Yuzo K., Lila C., O O., Hiroki M., Teaque Q.
******************************
There are 9 alive so it takes 5 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Tuesday the 4th at 9pm EST.

If the deadline was now, Lila C. would be lynched.

O. O., thanks for your opinion on the matter my dude. I stick with my stance on the matter, but it at least gives credence to titus's argument if someone else backs it up.
also Marilyn, i'm pretty sure that titus was the first to mention abrupt changes in tr/sr as a scumtell, unless i'm mistaken.

hiroki's last visit: Last visit : Today at 6:40 am
yuzo's last visit: Last visit : Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:35 pm

id write reads but they quite literally would be useless (i thought about what i'd say and it was garbage) but if you guys absolutely want them I will write them

im really not sure what other topic i can talk about right now - from what i remember, i haven't really seen anything worth pushing (aside from marilyn's unlynch thing, but I personally feel like there isnt anything else I can get from that after her latest explanation). I suppose I can re-read the thread and see if anything catches my eye later.

ah i missed this

Nicolette D. wrote:O. O., thanks for your opinion on the matter my dude. I stick with my stance on the matter, but it at least gives credence to titus's argument if someone else backs it up.
also Marilyn, i'm pretty sure that titus was the first to mention abrupt changes in tr/sr as a scumtell, unless i'm mistaken.

happy to help. I can see where you're coming from, but I don't really think its strong enough / supported enough to lynch him for since I can understand the reasoning for not pushing claudina at that point.

O.O I want to see your reads list
It doesn't matter if it's bad I want to know your opinion and your reluctance to post a read list is very scummy

HIROKI YOU WERE CONNECTED IN THE LAST 24 HOURS WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS

Hopefully that was get to him lol

@Marilyn: If you could quote where you or Nicolette brought up abrupt changes in reads a scum tell, please do so. I am pretty sure I read all of the posts. Furthermore, it's not that you unlynch - but the reason you gave after. You said you unlynched when you made your mind which wagon to join. However, you didn't - you just unlynched teaque for well, no good reason since you didn't bother lynching anyone else until Amelia just to save yourself. That fits my scumtell.

Marilyn M. wrote:



Point 0: I think thats a very harsh reasoning to lynch someone, but you do justify it later on.
Point 1+2: Really? I agree its great to break down the quotes and I've been trying to do that, can you also please cut down useless filler out of your own posts if they are long. This is mostly useless filler, as I wasnt planning on, and I doubt others were either, questioning the crusade against Lila
Point 3: Having read day 1, and looked at Lila's posts on her profile, I dont think either posted very useful posts. Granted, neither did I, but I really dont understand why you are anti-O and not very anti-Lila. It seems harsh to say it but i would be tempted to believe that Linda is mafia and thinks/knows Lila is one of the traitors? Im not saying that as a hard read just as something to consider
Coming from this, be on the lookout for players suddenly not scumreading their scumreads. This could be due to the traitor cop finding them as mafia
the Other Point 3?: I already commented on this, O certainly didnt have good posts, but neither did basically anyone apart from God's creation Titus
Point 3b: Agreed on Titus part, and actually agreed on Marilyn part too. When i saw the scumreads on me I was confused, but looking back they were fairly justifiable for a day 1 read as it was the best they could go by.

I've bolded the part @titus
It's basically the same as what you said

Titus V. wrote:@Marilyn: If you could quote where you or Nicolette brought up abrupt changes in reads a scum tell, please do so. I am pretty sure I read all of the posts. Furthermore, it's not that you unlynch - but the reason you gave after. You said you unlynched when you made your mind which wagon to join. However, you didn't - you just unlynched teaque for well, no good reason since you didn't bother lynching anyone else until Amelia just to save yourself. That fits my scumtell.

What I'm getting from this is that you think I unlynched, and say for ages holding my lynch when I could be lynching
I unlynched with the intention of reading later posts before casting my vote, it just happened that the next time I came online I was nearly being lynched so I had to lynch Amelia to save myself.

Marilyn M. wrote:O.O I want to see your reads list
It doesn't matter if it's bad I want to know your opinion and your reluctance to post a read list is very scummy

going to meet up with a friend but you'll get your reads list when im back

O.O is lying because O.O has no friends
ohhh roasted get bitchslapped by my enourmous arm

I would like to note that rewriting posts is not fun.

Updating Nicolette's read as of this moment.

Since coming back, Nicolette has sent a myriad of posts that really give off a townie vibe, and it seems she's just generally trying to scumhunt. However, her lack of activity harms that credibility, but not by that much. As such, I'm going with a 45-55 Town read here.

On the other hand Lila C, I find quite scummy. Not only is she extremely inactive at this point in time (Yes, I get real life, but it's been a few hours come on.) but combined with her earlier posts (Hey I destroyed Amelia for not knowing rl + other filler, but I'm going to filler about not knowing rolelist!) is suspicious as hell. She earns herself my lynch. Lynch Lila C.

O O. I like so far, not enough to earn himself a townread mind you, but he's jumped up to a neutral scum vibe. He's defended himself well, and seems to understand the points quite well. Only problem is his lack of reads, but he seems to be fixing that soon.

Also

Marilyn M. wrote:O.O is lying because O.O has no friends
ohhh roasted get bitchslapped by my enourmous arm

Hello? what the hell is this?

Forgot to add "FEDORA SLASH" when I lynched Lila, but I'll take the opportunity to double post and talk about Titus as well.

Titus, I'm honestly going to say I'm not sure about you right now. Sure you seem townie in going straight for one point and one point only but... you really are just repeating yourself for points that Marilyn has covered, noted and moved on from. It kind of feels like a desperate attempt to force a lynch on Marilyn to get people away from Lila, but you seem very average on your reads on her so far.

Still awaiting that readlist from you by the way.

Teaque Q. wrote:I would like to note that rewriting posts is not fun.

Also

Marilyn M. wrote:O.O is lying because O.O has no friends
ohhh roasted get bitchslapped by my enourmous arm

Hello? what the hell is this?

you're telling me

its a joke broski chill

Linda G. wrote:we start right now. lynch O O. You made the easiest pun based on your name that's available to you, and we're having none of that low effort this game. We're going hard, and we're going to win. If you don't want to try hard, that's your choice, but your next choice after that is to get a sub. #MakeMafiaGreatAgain

The REAL reason Linda lynched me over Lila has been revealed!

Yuzo K. wrote:

Nicolette D. wrote:linda you're probably not even from the south lmao
also good to know that you've remembered the name of your grudge correctly
and i have the cutest avatar

Linda looks more like a French transgender supermodel than anything.

Unlynch Lila

Cause she hasn't done anything bad or noteworthy tbh.

This strikes me as strange because... it's day 1... and this was an rl? Why would you mention that they've done nothing bad or noteworthy when this was still in the rl phase??? Of COURSE that's the case!

Marilyn M. wrote:

Hiroki M. wrote:Won't be super active until Saturday when I return from vacation (as you've seen since my last post). Anyway, yes, vig should not claim unless hammer is about to fall on them. The purpose of picking 2 targets for vig to kill each night is that in case we name the vig as our wanted shot that night, they would have a backup without drawing suspicion that they are our vig. One other thing. If we get to the point where we still have 2-3 scum and very few townies (approaching late game) and no successful scum deaths, vig should kinda assume scum has too much town control and shoot whoever tf you want.

Hiroki has been nothing but helpful and i completely trust him as town despite his ugly face
so vig, plz stay away from this guy tonight

This also seems super extra which makes me think that the shit everyone's been giving Marilyn may actually just be her playstyle. Or maybe she's acting like this to cover up any weird behavior... shrugs

Teaque Q. wrote:
On the other hand Lila C, I find quite scummy. Not only is she extremely inactive at this point in time (Yes, I get real life, but it's been a few hours come on.) but combined with her earlier posts (Hey I destroyed Amelia for not knowing rl + other filler, but I'm going to filler about not knowing rolelist!) is suspicious as hell. She earns herself my lynch. Lynch Lila C.

Not sure about this. There are two views of what Lila did. a) didnt read roles properly, made an honest mistake. b) scum trying to gain townread by pretending to not know mafia are traitors. c) scum that hasn't been checking if they had a quicktopic or not. There's literally no way to tell which of these is the case, so the latter point in teaque's post can't really be supported. Inactivity, though, isn't good.


Marilyn M.: active, taken pressure related to their lynch (or rather unlynch) rather well. Something tells me she may have contradicted herself at one point in time so i may take look back to see if im full of shit or if i remembered something that made me think of this whenever there isnt any discussion happening and im online.

Hiroki M.: "im coming back saturday" yea im sure you are buddy... been online, hasn't posted. not a good look, but willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he's just been busy.

Linda G.: "Last visit : Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:40 am". Need to interact more with her. Don't think she has a good case against me at all, may have just been suffering from the "i saw one thing i think is scummy so let me get anything i can to make a case for this guy being scum" syndrome.

Teaque Q.: don't understand why he's universally townread. has good posts, but nothing aside from that (unless ive missed it) that would put him that high up. maybe i cant see it because he uses numbers to signify how scummy he sees people as and i dont like that, but that's a personal issue and ignoring that i still don't see why he's townread so much.

Yuzo K.: lol

Titus V.: good content, defended himself well overall. Don't agree with niclolettes case on him and have no real reason to think he's scum atm. seems like town but im not very certain.

Nicolette D.: solid town. I like her reasoning, willingness to go after people who are universally townread, and willingness to elaborate/simplify/support her arguments. from interacting with her personally im getting a strong town gutread from her. Could change in the future but right now i'm very certain that she's town.

Lila C.: "Last visit : Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:03 am". Can't really make a judgment on her until she comes back. If she remains gone i suppose its likely that she could be scum that doesnt know how to defend herself and is just hoping people will lose interest and move on, but doubt it since it seems like the strongest lynch wagon is on her at this point.

Votecount 2.2
******************************
Lila C.(3)- Marilyn M., Nicolette D., Teaque Q.
O O.(1)- Linda G.
Marilyn M.(1)- Titus V.
Titus V.(0)-
Linda G.(0)-
Teaque Q.(0)-
Yuzo K.(0)-
Hiroki M.(0)-
Nicolette D.(0)-
Not Voting(4)- Yuzo K., Lila C., O O., Hiroki M.
******************************
There are 9 alive so it takes 5 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Tuesday the 4th at 9pm EST.

If the deadline was now, Lila C. would be lynched.

Long post incoming. Had lots of interesting thoughts based on interactions.

my body is so incredibly ready for hiroki's post

i looked back to see if marilyn contradicted herself and i'm simultaneously right and wrong. I'm right in that she said something that doesn't make sense, but wrong in that its something incriminating. She mentioned at one point that she was the counterwagon when she unlynched Teaque, and this is not the case. However, in previous posts she mentions that she was the counterwagon the next time she came on, which is true. I assume this incorrect statement is just a mix-up so i'm inclined to say that my investigation into the matter has turned up nothing. whoops.
everything else she said stayed consistent unless i missed something(reading quoted posts in this interface is lowkey annoying)

Yeah I guess I just mixed it up. I was the countereagon when I lynched Amelia would have been what I was trying to say
Hiroki is slowly pissing me off more and more. I'm assuming he has only been able to check the forums long enough to read everyone else's stuff

I am slightly worried about staying on Lila if she doesn't respond, mainly because there is a chance of her flipping cig without a chance to claim, but it's not like a cop or anything and I'm fairly confident in my read and willing to take the risk