Game 14: Protect Wisely!

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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Terri E. on Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:26 pm

I second what Toby J. said, defending yourself makes you in no way scum, it's a natural thing to do. Reading up on Azumi's counter argument now.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Himashi G. on Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:00 pm

Okay, I understand now where sunreeser was coming from. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
The below counter-rant is not addressed to Azumi, but rather to people who have a town read on her.

Azumi A. wrote:So for the thoughts, they're all about himashi. Surprising isn't it? *sarcasm* he is the most active person right now and he's got a lot of suspicions, it's kinda weird.
Being active and having a number of suspicions one greater than the size of the mafia is weird? I thought that just meant I was crudely forming my opinions of others at the beginning of the game. Sunreeser has been able to explain away the doubts I had, but you've not, Rossu and Daytona have yet to say much else so I don't know what else to think of them. See the underlined part beginning with "You do realize that..."

He's got a lot of suspicions and then says having few is scummy, but I'm actually one of the few people other than him who even have a suspicion in the first place, yet he only goes after me. Weird... And what makes it so scummy actually?
Your suspicion is on me, and that arose solely because I had a suspicion on you. That's OMGUSing, but subtly. And I said having NO suspicions is scummy--you're falling into a quasi-similar category; your only real suspicion is the person stirring up the pot against you.

I legit don't think there's lots of scummy people right now...
The only person you've suggested so far was me (SEE BELOW); although, I will give this to you, it's been FoSing, not direct accusation.

mostly as nobody has really talked yet... so how come himashi has 4 people he finds scummy, while 1 of them is legit for the reason of not talking iirc? Just so he can shove things off to others who might be troubling for him? I don't know. Only he knows, and only he can know for sure.
You do realize that those weren't actual scum call-outs, right? Are you suggesting that I really believed three out of those four people had to be scum, because of their first few posts in the game? Those were the people that I had the most reason to doubt at the time because of their actions or words; that doesn't mean I completely distrusted them. Notice how I only lynched you when you started getting riled-up about me accusing you. Sunreeser was able to allay our misunderstanding by explaining more fully her actions; you have not, by arousing accusations against your accuser without actually solving the core dispute.

Now don't think this is me saying he's scum, this is a thought I'm having, something weird about himashi. People often think that my arguments mean that I think someone is scum, and while I do believe himashi is the most scummy person atm(SEE ABOVE), that doesn't mean I believe he's scum immediatley, it's just weird.
You have a weird feeling about me? Well... That's also a mistake newcomer mafia make. The "Halftones of Suspicions" effect occurs when, while sharing suspicions, especially on their most antagonistic opponent, the player doesn’t directly say that “this player is definitely mafia for me”. But a player says: “I feel weird about this person, but I'm not sure, so that’s why I think he is in-between villy and mafia. The speech would make more sense if you say: “You are mafia, I suspect you!”. The motive of this play is that, once someone has accused you, you want to distance yourself from them, while possibly making them appear scummy at the same time. Suggesting they are sort-of villy may encourage them to turn down the heat on you, while suggesting they are sort-of mafia at the same time may help turn public sentiment against them.

Another thing that's just weird about himashi is how he's so quick to lynch. Like seriously? It's day 2 and you can't really know who is what unless you're mafia, meaning that you should be careful with your lynches as town imo,
Do you recommend we nl??? Would you be saying this if I'd lynched someone else? Do you think we should just wait around for the inactives to start throwing some more information out before we start scumhunting/looking for reactions? Speaking of which, reaction is the biggest reason why I'm lynching you.

not just because it helps the town but also because of the leaderboards, say I get lynched and flip town he loses points... that is if he's town. If he's not then the he'll gain points.
10/10 logic, proof almost

Dayton would get lynched by plurality if it wasn't for the lynch himashi placed... once again kinda weird though might be a coincidence.
Dayton must therefore be my scumpartner!

There were some other ideas I had about himashi but I forgot them Mad
I know that feel, I give you my condolences. :/

and while this is scummy I do not believe himashi should be lynched, he is after all starting discussions etc, then again having me being lynched would be kinda annoying too as I seem to keep discussions alive very well...
Assume that you are town. Who's better to keep around, me, who's pushing, scumhunting, and looking for reactions, or you, who spends your time defending yourself and explaining precisely why you didn’t protect your biggest town read. And to think I used my protect on you last night in case the mafia targeted you while targeting the town read, smh... So, since you A) only contributed to the discussion D2 through your own defense and my degradation and B) convinced me through your words and actions that you are scum, me lynching you is a no-brainer.
So this isn’t exactly a great argument in your favor. I will hold you to this belief for future reference.


Himashi, even if you do think I'm mafia, lynching me right now doesn't help town all that much, as if I am mafia and I'm so noobish as you think I can give you information, if I'm not as noobish as you think your assumptions are wrong.
I’d like everybody to read this multiple times and make their own opinions. As for mine:
“Lynching me is bad because, even if I am Mafia, I’m not noobish enough to give you information!”
Well… If lynching me is bad, and lynching you is bad, and I am the only true scummy read you have, then you’ve really forced yourself into a corner, now have you? Do you recommend we nl???


Either way it's a bad idea to lynch me, as I'm not mafia but town,
You wasted your time and words typing that sentence.

and we as town need discussions, and there's not an awful lot of people who are willing to discuss right now.
I think this is a great discussion we have going on right now here; if you want to start a new one, have at it.

You stated before that lurking works, well why don't we look at the lurkers then? Instead of looking at people who are trying to help town.
I have more definitive evidence on you right now than I have the lurkers, they can wait for a day. And you’re not trying to help my town, you’re trying to save your skin.

And yes, I do change opinion a lot as my scumradar works really weird and sometimes I work with logic and deduction and sometimes I work with my scumradar. Logic usually saves me and my scumradar usually finds the scum.
Your scumdar seems to be broken right now though if I’m the only one you have Sad And your ‘logic’ about not saving her didn’t really save Willhiema, now did it? Unless, of course, it wasn’t logic that drove you to not protect her, it was ambition that drove you to claim to protect her. Pick your poison: mafia or bad-logic-town. Although I think if you were bad-logic-town you’d have given up by now like Koji did.

And yes I do realize what I just said is scummy as hell, but I do feel we shouldn't fly at eachothers necks here, as there's other people who are doing less for town, and we don't want to be that one dead game.
[u]I didn’t think that what you said was all THAT scummy, perhaps you were paranoid when writing that part? And “flying at eachothers’ necks” = negative connotation for scumhunting. And I think one of those people doing ‘less for town’ is you. As I said, you’re not trying to help the town, you’re trying to save your skin.
I will be very surprised and/or dismayed if there turn out to be more than two other people who still support Azumi after this quote from her.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Himashi G. on Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:38 pm

I saw Azumi A. online at 10:15-30 PM GMT. He was gone by 10:35. He didn't reply to me.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Azumi A. on Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:58 pm

Himashi G. wrote:Okay, I understand now where sunreeser was coming from. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
The below counter-rant is not addressed to Azumi, but rather to people who have a town read on her.

Azumi A. wrote:So for the thoughts, they're all about himashi. Surprising isn't it? *sarcasm* he is the most active person right now and he's got a lot of suspicions, it's kinda weird.
Being active and having a number of suspicions one greater than the size of the mafia is weird? I thought that just meant I was crudely forming my opinions of others at the beginning of the game. Sunreeser has been able to explain away the doubts I had, but you've not, Rossu and Daytona have yet to say much else so I don't know what else to think of them. See the underlined part beginning with "You do realize that..."

yeah I know it were suspicions and not that people would surely be scum, when posting that I wasn't thinking about it too much.

He's got a lot of suspicions and then says having few is scummy, but I'm actually one of the few people other than him who even have a suspicion in the first place, yet he only goes after me. Weird... And what makes it so scummy actually?
Your suspicion is on me, and that arose solely because I had a suspicion on you. That's OMGUSing, but subtly. And I said having NO suspicions is scummy--you're falling into a quasi-similar category; your only real suspicion is the person stirring up the pot against you.

err... if you'd have been going for someone else in the way you went for me i would have reacted exactly the same except for things only that person can explain. This is just one of your FALSE assumptions.

I legit don't think there's lots of scummy people right now...
The only person you've suggested so far was me (SEE BELOW); although, I will give this to you, it's been FoSing, not direct accusation.

mostly as nobody has really talked yet... so how come himashi has 4 people he finds scummy, while 1 of them is legit for the reason of not talking iirc? Just so he can shove things off to others who might be troubling for him? I don't know. Only he knows, and only he can know for sure.
You do realize that those weren't actual scum call-outs, right? Are you suggesting that I really believed three out of those four people had to be scum, because of their first few posts in the game? Those were the people that I had the most reason to doubt at the time because of their actions or words; that doesn't mean I completely distrusted them. Notice how I only lynched you when you started getting riled-up about me accusing you. Sunreeser was able to allay our misunderstanding by explaining more fully her actions; you have not, by arousing accusations against your accuser without actually solving the core dispute.

if that's what you want to believe... but I'm pretty sure I tried explaining it. You just didn't notice because you were too caught up trying to find ways in which I would be scummy, for yourself or for others. Now don't think this is me saying he's scum, this is a thought I'm having, something weird about himashi. People often think that my arguments mean that I think someone is scum, and while I do believe himashi is the most scummy person atm(SEE ABOVE), that doesn't mean I believe he's scum immediatley, it's just weird.
You have a weird feeling about me? Well... That's also a mistake newcomer mafia make. The "Halftones of Suspicions" effect occurs when, while sharing suspicions, especially on their most antagonistic opponent, the player doesn’t directly say that “this player is definitely mafia for me”. But a player says: “I feel weird about this person, but I'm not sure, so that’s why I think he is in-between villy and mafia. The speech would make more sense if you say: “You are mafia, I suspect you!”. The motive of this play is that, once someone has accused you, you want to distance yourself from them, while possibly making them appear scummy at the same time. Suggesting they are sort-of villy may encourage them to turn down the heat on you, while suggesting they are sort-of mafia at the same time may help turn public sentiment against them.

so wait... it would have been better to say ibelieve you're mafia? That's kinda weird and it's exactly what you're doing. And I've said this before, I'm not a newcomer. there are 3 regions for me, mafia, suspicious and town. Currently you're in suspicious.  

Another thing that's just weird about himashi is how he's so quick to lynch. Like seriously? It's day 2 and you can't really know who is what unless you're mafia, meaning that you should be careful with your lynches as town imo,
Do you recommend we nl??? Would you be saying this if I'd lynched someone else? Do you think we should just wait around for the inactives to start throwing some more information out before we start scumhunting/looking for reactions? Speaking of which, reaction is the biggest reason why I'm lynching you.

maybe i wouldn't have, but i would still notice it.

not just because it helps the town but also because of the leaderboards, say I get lynched and flip town he loses points... that is if he's town. If he's not then the he'll gain points.
10/10 logic, proof almost it's exactly what happened game 12

Dayton would get lynched by plurality if it wasn't for the lynch himashi placed... once again kinda weird though might be a coincidence.
Dayton must therefore be my scumpartner!
i said coincidence and you ignored it.
There were some other ideas I had about himashi but I forgot them Mad
I know that feel, I give you my condolences. :/

and while this is scummy I do not believe himashi should be lynched, he is after all starting discussions etc, then again having me being lynched would be kinda annoying too as I seem to keep discussions alive very well...
Assume that you are town. Who's better to keep around, me, who's pushing, scumhunting, and looking for reactions, or you, who spends your time defending yourself and explaining precisely why you didn’t protect your biggest town read. And to think I used my protect on you last night in case the mafia targeted you while targeting the town read, smh... So, since you A) only contributed to the discussion D2 through your own defense and my degradation and B) convinced me through your words and actions that you are scum, me lynching you is a no-brainer.
So this isn’t exactly a great argument in your favor. I will hold you to this belief for future reference.
sooo... there will be a future for me? And legit what discussion was there to contribute to? also protecting me was stupid as hell. This is why i couldn't protect willhiema, because people would be stupid and protect others.

Himashi, even if you do think I'm mafia, lynching me right now doesn't help town all that much, as if I am mafia and I'm so noobish as you think I can give you information, if I'm not as noobish as you think your assumptions are wrong.
I’d like everybody to read this multiple times and make their own opinions. As for mine:
“Lynching me is bad because, even if I am Mafia, I’m not noobish enough to give you information!”
Well… If lynching me is bad, and lynching you is bad, and I am the only true scummy read you have, then you’ve really forced yourself into a corner, now have you? Do you recommend we nl???


i think you kind of misunderstood that one, what i meant was that if my actions make me mafia i must be a newcomer, as a lot of your arguments require me to be a newcomer. if i really am mafia according to those arguments you can get information. If I'm not then that makes your reasoning incomplete.  
either way it's a bad idea to lynch me, as I'm not mafia but town,
You wasted your time and words typing that sentence.

and we as town need discussions, and there's not an awful lot of people who are willing to discuss right now.
I think this is a great discussion we have going on right now here; if you want to start a new one, have at it.

You stated before that lurking works, well why don't we look at the lurkers then? Instead of looking at people who are trying to help town.
I have more definitive evidence on you right now than I have the lurkers, they can wait for a day. And you’re not trying to help my town, you’re trying to save your skin.

meanwhile i am saying what my thoughts are to help town, if i do get lynched because of you and your weird reasoning that doesn't really work for psanon I don't want the town to not know my thoughts.  
and yes, I do change opinion a lot as my scumradar works really weird and sometimes I work with logic and deduction and sometimes I work with my scumradar. Logic usually saves me and my scumradar usually finds the scum.
Your scumdar seems to be broken right now though if I’m the only one you have Sad And your ‘logic’ about not saving her didn’t really save Willhiema, now did it? Unless, of course, it wasn’t logic that drove you to not protect her, it was ambition that drove you to claim to protect her. Pick your poison: mafia or bad-logic-town. Although I think if you were bad-logic-town you’d have given up by now like Koji did.

i pick stubborn townie that is going for the scumradar atm, meaning I'm vague as hell about everything.

And yes I do realize what I just said is scummy as hell, but I do feel we shouldn't fly at eachothers necks here, as there's other people who are doing less for town, and we don't want to be that one dead game.
[u]I didn’t think that what you said was all THAT scummy, perhaps you were paranoid when writing that part? And “flying at eachothers’ necks” = negative connotation for scumhunting. And I think one of those people doing ‘less for town’ is you. As I said, you’re not trying to help the town, you’re trying to save your skin. well if someone else would say what i said about lynching me being a bad idea i would find it scummy. also, I'm never paranoid.
I will be very surprised and/or dismayed if there turn out to be more than two other people who still support Azumi after this quote from her.

If you're "evidence" would really be so concrete nobody would be against it. If I were mafia they wouldn't dare go against it.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Azumi A. on Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:59 pm

Himashi G. wrote:I saw Azumi A. online at 10:15-30 PM GMT. He was gone by 10:35. He didn't reply to me.

Actually I've been online all that time replying
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Azumi A. on Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:12 pm

With deadline approaching I am going to cast my vote.

lynch toby

Now let me explain this, I'm on phone so can't really pull up the quotes but I've got a good idea of what Toby said as I just read through it. So Toby says that he doesn't believe koji is scum... but does he do something about it? Lynch someone who is more likely to be scum? No. Kinda weird but there are more people who did that. The difference is that they actually posted more, toby has been lurking which bothers me. we've got a big discussion that goes on for days IRL and toby only says 1 thing about it, of course there are others who did the same but in combination with the lurking it's as if he's trying to get the attention away from himself, saying pretty general things that several people are thinking, making sure he gets a post occasionally to not be seen as an inactive/lurker possibly waiting for an opportunity to make it seem like he had just been busy so he can pick up the conversation from there while it's easy to sound as town and then move on like that. Possibly. I could very well be wrong but you can hardly blame me for believing he's a better option than me.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Toby J. on Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:41 pm

Hold up, is there anything I could have done? There were two lynchs on koji, even if I lynched someone else, it wouldn't be sufficient to prevent koji from getting lynched. Also, I had no clue as to who is mafia. So I didn't want to risk lynching a townie in the name of saving koji. That would have made me AND koji look like a scum team.
If I did something in the situation, it would just be stupid. Unless I got lucky and lynched the mafia.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Azumi A. on Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:02 am

You could have looked at what other people have said and see who was being scummy and then lynch them as that would not so much be in the name of saving him as it would in the name of finding mafia.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Toby J. on Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:28 am

Fair enough. Even then, it wouldn't have been enough to prevent Koji from getting lynched.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Azumi A. on Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:54 am

Maybe not but maybe others would have agreed, if you don't try you'll never know. It's just the lack of contribution without actually being inactive that bothers me about you
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Azumi A. on Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:02 am

One Last thing before I quite possibly get lynched, I've got a strategy. If at some point everyone is sure off a certain person being town, make sure that person is always protected. Say it If you're going to be the one using your protect on them that night. No trying to trick mafia as we have noticed that doesn't work. And if you've somehow still got a problem with that I wouldn't do that if I were mafia, as you can see it's really risky.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Kimyo N. on Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:43 pm

Oh god, I'm so sorry about my lack of activity lately. Been really busy as of late, will pull something up. Also, shit has been going down by the looks of it Surprised I'mma have a look at the arguments portrayed by you guys properly and post in a lil bit. I need a bit of time to think some things over.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Himashi G. on Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:59 pm

Azumi, please, did you just do that lynch to plurality-wise save your skin without USing me, the person you've been saying was your main suspicion? Although props for starting a new discussion.
Koji himself admitted that it was best that he was lynched because the town had already homed in on him; should he have stuck around, it'd be a detriment to them because they'd be preoccupied with him (smh Koji). Random lynching to start discussion isn't a favored tactic of mine, so I usually try to determine what can be gleaned from peoples' tones of voice and/or word choice when talking. You know, seeing if a conversation smells of town/town, town/scum, or even sometimes scum/scum. Lynching and the reactions that take place from them deserve consideration, but there are other things that happen too. D1 was unremarkable in both the lynching aspect and the talking aspect imo. The only obvious thing was the Wilhiema town thing, because she talked with everybody and was solidly pro-town in her word choice.
Speaking of which... Nevermind, I'll save it for later. Just a thought from earlier.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Himashi G. on Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:00 pm

Kimyo, what say ye?
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Azumi A. on Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:22 pm

I know that's what I said and I know it would probably be better for town to do as koji did, but unlike koji I want to live no matter what, that's the sole reason I do psanon, so I can live for once. not going to give the chance up. And yes I realize it might seem like I am trying to save my skin but there are 3 mafia and my discussion with you had me sliding into a tunnel vision. Only looking at 1 person and ignoring the others, realizing my mistake I looked at the posts others have made and concluded that of those toby was the one who was most suspicious to me.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Azumi A. on Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:30 pm

I've also looked through the conversation between himashi and sunreeser again and it's just a bit odd how that one went. I doubt himashi didn't notice the thing with georgio actually being there so maybe they're actually a scumteam with toby. Toby got lynched and sunreeser /saved/ him by lynching koji too. It just seems odd to me. Himashi and sunreeser are connected and sunreeser and toby are connected. Himashi and toby have been pretty scummy to me and the thing where they're both connected to sunreeser makes me suspicious of him too, if I do die, remember this
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Satoru S. on Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:37 pm

Once I have more time I will post more and barely catching up. At this point I'm seeing sunreeser as mafia and for a lot of various things. Sunreeser in a way might seem really towny but the plan and that feeling which kinda fillers on town and doesn't really pressure. I don't know how to explain it that well and well cant explain it, once I have more time I will find a way to explain it. Also the lynch on koji with sunreeser doesn't really make sense since the plurality would be whichever person was lynched first would be lynched and the max on votes of other people were one and I didn't ul.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Satoru S. on Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:42 pm

for example on koji sunreeser jus says because of a lot of odm mentions and stuff. Let me make this clear, what someone else did in one game doesn't mean you should all be playing differently. Also the posting to be active is just overreacting as if you were finding an excuse to lynch. Well now I need to catch up on the Himashi and Azumi brawlmelee when I have time.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Satoru S. on Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:43 pm

Also it seems I'm off the radar, feel free to ask me questions also and ask questions about everybody. The game cannot be self centered and remember this NO ONE IS EVER CLEAN. This means because of all the towny things you do doesn't make you clean. Ik I said not to put in plays from other games but we cannot fall for the romeo or mizuhi trap.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Satoru S. on Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:44 pm

well just checked and deadline is today so will try to catch up fast today.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Kimyo N. on Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:56 pm

ughhhhh i don't know. I read the lAst page or so that I missed, and it seems like I've missed a wee bit. About the himashi/azumi shitstorm going on, I'm really neutral towards it all. I mean, himashi makes a fair point about the whole saving her ass thing and it is plausible, but I'm personally unsure about it. I'm personally not getting a huge scumread off azumi, and I don't see the need really to be jumping on someone every fucking day. More discussion next day imo.

Himashi, also, why the hell are you so defensive about yourself in? Azumi didn't suggest a thing about saying let's lynch you and then you literally jumped down her throat. I may have missed something in my reading or something, but just curious. I wanna clarify before deadline about this to get a quick idea. Could someone do a quick summary of the evidence he's using against azumi? I'm wanting to see if it's anything other than the incident at start of the day.
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Satoru S. on Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:55 pm

btw I'm just going to say how has NOBODY SUSPECTED MISAWO. He doesn't protect what he claimed as his townread, he is afk and off the radar now that nobody has mentioned him and he asks if no killing is allowed which idk but it jus sends that trigger. Lynch Misawo
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Satoru S. on Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:55 pm

now I jus need to check himashi and azumi
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Satoru S.

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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Satoru S. on Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:58 pm

Azumi A. wrote:With deadline approaching I am going to cast my vote.

lynch toby

Now let me explain this, I'm on phone so can't really pull up the quotes but I've got a good idea of what Toby said as I just read through it. So Toby says that he doesn't believe koji is scum... but does he do something about it? Lynch someone who is more likely to be scum? No. Kinda weird but there are more people who did that. The difference is that they actually posted more, toby has been lurking which bothers me. we've got a big discussion that goes on for days IRL and toby only says 1 thing about it, of course there are others who did the same but in combination with the lurking it's as if he's trying to get the attention away from himself, saying pretty general things that several people are thinking, making sure he gets a post occasionally to not be seen as an inactive/lurker possibly waiting for an opportunity to make it seem like he had just been busy so he can pick up the conversation from there while it's easy to sound as town and then move on like that. Possibly. I could very well be wrong but you can hardly blame me for believing he's a better option than me.

Wait wait, what do you mean IRL?
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

Post by Satoru S. on Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:00 pm

Also azumi, nobody attempted to lynch another person to save koji (well need to check on activity firsthand plus all the people in the game).
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Re: Game 14: Protect Wisely!

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