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Game 34: Purgatory

Taka T. wrote:i was scum rofl

Ngl towards the end of the heaven phase I started feeling that u may be mafia but i couldnt find anything against you so I didnt really do anything rip. Inb4 scumteam was taka, kinso and yaichi
by Butch C.
on Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:26 pm
 
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Topic: Game 34: Purgatory
Replies: 143
Views: 4882

Game 34: Purgatory

ajhockeystar wrote:So since this game is so dead, my idea is to take the active players from both games and make a new one. It'd have to be a different theme, which kinda sucks, but yeah that's probably the best option rn. Thoughts?


Yes please this game is a shambles
by Butch C.
on Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:16 am
 
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Topic: Game 34: Purgatory
Replies: 143
Views: 4882

Game 34: Purgatory

ajhockeystar wrote:Votecount 2.1
******************************

Butch C.(1)- Taka T.
Taka T.(1)- Evian W.
Kinso D.(0)-
Evian W.(0)-
Kaiser P.(0)-
Kathi G.(0)-
Pit B.(0)-
Yaichi H.(0)-
Not Voting(6)- Kathi G., Kinso D., Kaiser P., Yaichi H., Pit B., Butch C., Kaiser P.
******************************
There are 8 alive so it takes 5 to hammer. Plurality applies.
Deadline is Wednesday the 18th at 9pm EST.

If the deadline was now, Butch C. would be lynched.


Taka T. wrote:
Butch C. wrote:
Taka T. wrote:Tangentially related, in response to Butch's note on Kinso, I don't know if you're looking at the same ISO I am. There are several messages where Kinso is reaching out to Pit who does not respond to him.

"Also this pit guy seems to have lynched me and just hasn't appeared since."
"Also is there any reason you're lynching me, that's the second person on me who hasn't provided an explanation and I'd really like to know why."
'If someone lynches me, that means they think I'm scum. I'd like to know why that is and prove them wrong regardless of if I have plurality or not. "

This is what I meant when I said
"I don't like a Kinso lynch for a few reasons. I actually really like his willingness to engage with pit who voted him. This is in direct contrast with Bart, who seems to hope that people who vote him just eventually forget about his existence. This is a big big big townmarker for me and I think some credence needs to be given to my read here."

We have been reading the same ISOs but it seems we judged the posts in different ways. To me, evidence to show "willingness to engage with Pit" would be him directly asking Pit for anything really in order for them to engage. The post where I truly saw that was the one asking for Pit's reason/checking whether it was an RVS, and actually I guess the one where he says how we wants to prove Pit wrong is an effort of trying to engage despite it not being directly addressed to Pit. Other than that, "Also this pit guy seems to have lynched me and just hasn't appeared since." is really just a complaint and not actually trying to engage. "Also is there any reason you're lynching me, that's the second person on me who hasn't provided an explanation and I'd really like to know why." That was addressed to Kaiser anyway so theres no sign of any effort to engage with Pit.

Well, we still have a few days to figure out who to send, so there's no reason to commit now. If I am getting sent to heaven, then I'd love to hear from Pit, Yaichi, and Kathi's replacement so that I can give more informed reads on them before the phase ends.


We do? But i thought deadline was yesterday lol. Well in that case Unvote Taka
by Butch C.
on Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:00 pm
 
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Topic: Game 34: Purgatory
Replies: 143
Views: 4882

Game 34: Purgatory

Unfortunately I cant stay for any longer but like I said before although i was hoping to keep taka around, this phase was too inactive and so i couldnt get any other confident TRs. Therefore Vote Taka
by Butch C.
on Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:16 pm
 
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Topic: Game 34: Purgatory
Replies: 143
Views: 4882

Game 34: Purgatory

Taka T. wrote:Tangentially related, in response to Butch's note on Kinso, I don't know if you're looking at the same ISO I am. There are several messages where Kinso is reaching out to Pit who does not respond to him.

"Also this pit guy seems to have lynched me and just hasn't appeared since."
"Also is there any reason you're lynching me, that's the second person on me who hasn't provided an explanation and I'd really like to know why."
'If someone lynches me, that means they think I'm scum. I'd like to know why that is and prove them wrong regardless of if I have plurality or not. "

This is what I meant when I said
"I don't like a Kinso lynch for a few reasons. I actually really like his willingness to engage with pit who voted him. This is in direct contrast with Bart, who seems to hope that people who vote him just eventually forget about his existence. This is a big big big townmarker for me and I think some credence needs to be given to my read here."

We have been reading the same ISOs but it seems we judged the posts in different ways. To me, evidence to show "willingness to engage with Pit" would be him directly asking Pit for anything really in order for them to engage. The post where I truly saw that was the one asking for Pit's reason/checking whether it was an RVS, and actually I guess the one where he says how we wants to prove Pit wrong is an effort of trying to engage despite it not being directly addressed to Pit. Other than that, "Also this pit guy seems to have lynched me and just hasn't appeared since." is really just a complaint and not actually trying to engage. "Also is there any reason you're lynching me, that's the second person on me who hasn't provided an explanation and I'd really like to know why." That was addressed to Kaiser anyway so theres no sign of any effort to engage with Pit.
by Butch C.
on Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:06 pm
 
Search in: Mafia Games
Topic: Game 34: Purgatory
Replies: 143
Views: 4882

Game 34: Purgatory

Kaiser P. wrote:oh maybe I didnt mention it. I had you as a day 1 TR just for the contributions and showing thinking in posts. That read has stayed so far.

Yachi and Kathi havent been exisiting
Evian i already send im unsure
Taka is a townread

thats literally everyone i havent mentioned.

Can you elaborate on your evian read? You said previously that he isnt a townread but there are better options for scum. So what makes him not a townread but at the same time why do you think he isn't the mafia?

Kinso D. wrote:How am I supposed to scumhunt when only 3 people are posting anything and one of them is obviously scum.
Seems like I am universally scumread by everyone active in this game, so when you send me to hell tomorrow, remember that Kaiser is mafia. That is my main read.

In the hell phase everyone except Kathi posted something, so just like most of us, you could have at least made an effort to scumhunt. Also you just said "one of them is obviously scum", so why are you not telling us this until I have to ask you? So anyway can you explain your read against Kaiser since just saying "Kaiser is mafia" aint gonna be convincing anyone.

Also Kaiser you're saying you still have an SR on Kinso right? And that you've been going at him hell phase because of this. But from what I can see, the last post that was made in your quarrel with Kinso is this:
Kinso D. wrote:
Kaiser P. wrote:
Kinso D. wrote:
Bart S. wrote:
Kinso D. wrote:Also this pit guy seems to have lynched me and just hasn't appeared since.


Why have you cared so much about one lynch. This is near all that you have said today and you don't even have plur afaik.


If someone lynches me, that means they think I'm scum. I'd like to know why that is and prove them wrong regardless of if I have plurality or not.
You should not only care about the game if you're about to die. That attitude makes games inactive.


You werent defending yourself though. You were Pushing someone who was lynching you, mostly because they lynched you :/


1- Show me where exactly I pushed him. I didn't
2- I would have had the same reaction had they lynched someone else and then disappeared

It's quite clear that Kinso has asked you to prove the fact that he pushed Pit, which if you couldn't do then your point against him would be shot down. However you seem to have just ignored this yet still proceed to say that you have a strong SR on Kinso. If its true that you have a strong SR on Kinso and believe he is the mafia, then why have you stopped pressing him and why haven't you proven your points against him?

I've literally been seeing Taka and Evian come online at least once everyday since Monday and not post anything which is ticking me off rn because even if they don't have anything to say in terms of scumhunting and the game in general, they should at least be able to respond to the points against them/prove points that have been challenged.
by Butch C.
on Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:40 am
 
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Topic: Game 34: Purgatory
Replies: 143
Views: 4882

Game 34: Purgatory

Kaiser P. wrote:And tunneling. d1 reads are hard to make, and I dont want to throw out reads that im uncertain on. So i gave quick thoughts on anyone i was able to make any sort of read on (Pit and Butch) but Kinso i was able to make a pretty strong read on, so i focused on that. His further posts have made me sr stronger. Dismissing Butches points as 'no information' so you dont need to respond to them.

Im still unsure on Evian, and not sure what makes him scummy to y'all. he's not a townread but there are much better options for getting scum


I found your brief read on pit
Kaiser P. wrote:
Pit B. wrote:Sorry for the inactivity, a post on all my thoughts will be coming shortly.

Also, to clarify, we are in Hell phase right?

That last bit feels like he's asking a question for the sake of asking questions. If you read the thread you will see people voting for scumreads so..
However his later readlists give me a d1 tr on him
but I couldn't seem to find your one on me. The only other thing I saw is "I just missed a page where Taka is being useful and not annoying" but thats not really a read. Can you clarify which one you mean?

Alright so now that it's day 2 what are your reads on everyone else other than Kinso?
by Butch C.
on Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:31 pm
 
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Topic: Game 34: Purgatory
Replies: 143
Views: 4882

Game 34: Purgatory

Kinso D. wrote:
What the fuck do you want me to say to you?
You think I'm scum, con-fucking-grats, lynch me tomorrow mate.
Other than that you post fucking 15000 word essays that have absolutely no information whatsoever, so excuse me if I don't reply to those when all I read about me in them is: Kinso doesn't want to be lynched therefor he is most definitely scum

"absolutely no information whatsoever".....I mean that's just objectively not true tho is it.
Also idk how you managed to sum up my points as "Kinso doesn't wanna be lynched ergo scum confirmed" because if you really have been reading my posts you would know that's not what I said. It seems evident that you are just trying to twist my words. If you wanted to generalise my point it would be that, despite being one of the more active players in the game, all you have done is complain about getting lynched and not made the slightest effort to scumhunt. Gonna quote this for reference and also because I went into more depth in my read against you.
Hell Phase read on Kinso:


I can't believe how dead this phase is... Its almost deadline and only 4/8 people actually said a word. It makes it worse when you find out that the last visit of people like Kaiser is Yesterday at 4:47 pm. It gets on my nerves because now I am starting to think Kaiser is just laying back and letting me defend for him, which is why my read on him is now slipping down to a neutral and I ain't gonna be voting him for heaven. Like I said I don't really want to be voting Taka but at this rate I can't really risk sending someone else whom I don't have a secure read on. Which leads me onto why I am reluctant to vote for Pit, although his ISO analysis have quality and he clearly put the effort to scumhunt, this can easily be coming from a really good and experienced mafia player. This uncertainty is due to the fact I haven't really been able to interact with him and also see his interactions with other people (since he literally just posted his analysis and never came back). I also want to see him continue his analysis since he only did it on 3 people in detail and then briefly for Taka. Therefore I think I'll hold on to my vote and hope that this game springs to life.
by Butch C.
on Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:39 pm
 
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Topic: Game 34: Purgatory
Replies: 143
Views: 4882

Game 34: Purgatory

Taka T. wrote:
Who do you want then?

I was hoping for others to actually talk so I can decide (eg. Kathi since she has a new sub).

Kinso D. wrote:vote taka

You must be doing this on purpose now....are you even reading my posts???

Evian W. wrote:Like I'm unsure why you think this fact so badly that what I did wasn't an RVS just because I got off after a real life day? Like let's apply logic, what else could I be trying there? Pushing them away from town on the basis of them giving a weird list of reads?

Well what I had in mind was that you could have taken the opportunity of Taka's seemingly controversial readlist for an easy way to seem as if you are proactive and helping town win. But that's not important, what's important is that as long as my points still stand, I have reason to believe you are lying about the fact your vote was a pressure vote. You seem to be trying to drop the whole argument without responding to my points which makes this even more suspicious. If the whole RVS thing is true then you should be able to knock down my points and convince me, which is why I still have reason to believe you are lying about this and you evading my points is making it more suspicious.

Evian W. wrote:As for the second content, seriously.. it was for Pit who had posted about Bart... my posts aren't that confusing i don't even know if at this point you're reading them differently..

I had another look, you were definitely replying to my post which had 2 points towards you. I asked why you had Pit as neutral while Yaichi as scumlean. Then you just randomly mentioned Bart which made no sense. Not sure what you're on about tho, there's no way that was directed to Pit. Here is the quote for reference:
Evian's reply:

Whilst we are on the topic of you apparently targetting this at Pit, I cant find a single post where you have addressed Pit's 5 or 6 questions that he asked you. Quote it for me if you have but otherwise not sure how you are telling me that was for Pit when you seemingly never responded to Pit.

Evian W. wrote:
Moving onwards, your reply to Pit has this questionable thing - you stated that you don't have the neutrality or in between behaviour which alright i agree, but then at the same time you're being neutral to Pit yourself, and then you suddenly going like "oh i understand" is something i don't appreciate much, it's really like you going for perfect townread for Pit because "you understand them".

If by neutral you mean that I never pressed Pit that would be because as of now nothing struck me as weird that requires me to press them. At the same time I am not the kind of person to be stating the obvious and saying that him reading people in detail is townie. Also, I said the "however I understand" part because I talked about how he can tell my stance on people by how I am pressing them, but following that logic there is no way he can tell my stance on those who I havent been pressing so obviously I understand where he is coming from. Your logic about how me understanding them makes them townread me is fundamentally flawed because the only thing that "understanding" would do is show the clarity of the post and that the person fully acknowledges the point, which funnily enough is not alignment indicative.

Evian W. wrote:
Taka T. wrote:My major problem with Evian is that he has been completely avoiding me since I started posting. This is a guy who is prodding people for activity early in the week, telling people to be less useless, asking people questions. He parks his vote on me. When questioned on it (by Butch), he mangles his explanation COMPLETELY and tries to explain that it was a RVS vote. His vote, as of 12 hours before deadline, was still on me.


Neutral
Big issues with this. I haven't been avoiding you. If there's some post I didn't reply to, then I probably missed something? I agree to the next three things, and then there's the question about the RVS, I don't get why you are so stuck up to believe that it wasn't an RVS. And a question as to the last line (which wasn't necessary to be there? I don't know what you're trying to convey by saying that?) - there's this hypocrisy where you're saying that it wasn't an RVS but are saying that my vote was on you as of 12 hours before deadline?

Fairly sure his point was that you kept your vote for too long to be an RVS lynch? Not quite sure how he's contradicting himself.

Evian W. wrote:
Butch C. wrote:Which is why I don't want either of us to be sent to heaven today. To me, being sent to heaven today is almost like a glorified n1 nightkill but with the ability to talk a little bit more. Which is why I dont want to be sent to heaven this early because I want more time in this game and also because I got slight confidence booster after making the right call not to vote bart (which didnt work out in the end rip). I would rather put in the effort to think about who else is town and a good heaven candidate.

I see this here, and:
Taka T. wrote:vote butch

Escapes your eyes? I don't get this - you're nodding heads over the heaven lynch being a glorified n1 nightkill, yet you just let the post go below your eyes?

umm..because it never went below my eyes? My post was after he voted me so I just expressed why I didn't want to be voted. Unless you're trying to say that I didn't press him for it, I didn't think it was scummy because my point of view of it being a glorified nk wouldn't necessarily be the same for everyone. Which is also why I didn't get what you meant by us nodding heads when it was really just me.

Evian W. wrote:
Butch C. wrote:I understand your point on how Kaiser has basically ignored everyone except Kaiser which would seem scummy. Although looking at his ISOs he did address Pit by expressing a small amount of dissatisfaction on something he said but then he says his reads make Kaiser see Pit as d1 townread. I also don't see a problem with trying to get your scumread lynched because I don't see why mafia would just tunnel Kinso and not also press on someone say Bart. In fact this post in particular was the reason why I got a townlean on Kaiser...

:? At that point, there was little possibility of the fact that a wagon other than Bart could be started. He could easily have been getting a Kinso wagon to 1. Not get into the "you lynched Bart you lynched town" wagon and 2. To get points / fake scumhunt (since that's quite possible/visible there - he literally has to show scumhunting there to fulfil his needs)

I mean while I was deciding a read for Kaiser these points definitely crossed my mind, however they didnt stick because I disagree with the very first bit. When Kaiser started against Kinso with the "something about the reaction just feels, idk off. It should be obvious from reading that Taka is just making annoying shitposts and not an actual readlist. feels wierd. FOS" The only person really going against Bart was Taka, so the wagon was never solidified at that point in time so I would have thought a scum Kaiser would push it to some extent but still go for Kinso in order to smoothly meet the two points you mentioned. I know Yaichi voted Bart too but his reasoning was literally just "bad reaction" which was being questioned (by me). I am also aware you had an FoS on Bart at the time but you had an FoS on Kaiser for the same reason so the pressure on Bart wasn't prominent.

Evian W. wrote:
Butch C. wrote:........? You're joking right? After my points against you that I still want you to answer and also Taka's points + lynch against you and all you felt like doing was "Vote Taka"??? Also the last time I checked the members list (before you posted) it said that you came online about 6 hours or so after AJ commenced heaven face. I thought it was fine because you may just be writing a long post or something, but now all it looks like is that you came online to see Taka say "Vote Butch" so you decided it'll be fine to do the same? It seems clear that you thought about voting Taka before heaven phase began because no one has actually said anything with substance as of yet which means no post would have changed your mind, so then why didnt you do that when you last came on? This makes me believe moreso that you simply did this just because you saw Taka do it...

...I'll just scrap the whole point by saying this much - you're overthinking it. No such complex thing came in my mind. Sometimes I can feel sleepy and choose not to post instead. And really, overthinking isn't the best thing here.

I knew you were gonna say that you felt sleepy, but all you would have done was "Vote Taka" which isn't exactly the most mind-intensive post. And I am fairly certain your decision to vote Taka came from ur impressions in the hell phase and not from something that was said recently (unless you thought "vote butch" was what made you vote Taka which doesnt sound right).
by Butch C.
on Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:24 pm
 
Search in: Mafia Games
Topic: Game 34: Purgatory
Replies: 143
Views: 4882

Game 34: Purgatory

Taka T. wrote:
I've been thinking about the setup. It is actually important to get lynches like Evian out of the way sooner rather than later. The setup is such that the good townies will leave the game soon, by design. If active and visible scum like evian is lynched late in the game (but not before judgment day), they will eventually become the most active and seemingly useful person in the game, and then they are harder to lynch. Let me put it this way, butch. suppose you and I get sent to heaven: who is left to push evian?

Which is why I don't want either of us to be sent to heaven today. To me, being sent to heaven today is almost like a glorified n1 nightkill but with the ability to talk a little bit more. Which is why I dont want to be sent to heaven this early because I want more time in this game and also because I got slight confidence booster after making the right call not to vote bart (which didnt work out in the end rip). I would rather put in the effort to think about who else is town and a good heaven candidate.

Taka T. wrote:
I don't like a Kinso lynch for a few reasons. I actually really like his willingness to engage with pit who voted him. This is in direct contrast with Bart, who seems to hope that people who vote him just eventually forget about his existence. This is a big big big townmarker for me and I think some credence needs to be given to my read here.

By "willingness to engage with pit" you mean:
Kinso D. wrote:Mind Explaining or is this just an RVS thing?

this? Because the rest of his posts don't actually engage with Pit at all and instead either complains or just defends. If you were indeed referring to this then I dont understand how this is any better than Bart's reaction when you put him as "hard lock scum" (except maybe you werent lynching him at the time but still). The point you are trying to make is that Kinso tries to engage with those who lynch him, however this is clearly false when you realise that Kinso pretty much just slated Bart by calling him a bad player then proceeds to tell us that he will reread to find out who he thinks the towniest player is, completely ignoring my points against him from the hell phase (and i definitely did lynch him).

Taka T. wrote:
The second thing is that literally everything Kaiser has been posting has been to tunnel Kinso. Putting the substance aside (although really, my opinion on the substance is the same as I said above, that I like Kinso's willingness to engage with people who vote him), I tend to really REALLY dislike people behind day 1 tunnels. There are 9 players in this game, you have to get reads 8 of them, you have no idea what alignment anybody is, but somehow you've latched onto one person who you really dislike and ignore everyone else? I think this is scummy, and I don't like being on wagon with scum.

I understand your point on how Kaiser has basically ignored everyone except Kaiser which would seem scummy. Although looking at his ISOs he did address Pit by expressing a small amount of dissatisfaction on something he said but then he says his reads make Kaiser see Pit as d1 townread. I also don't see a problem with trying to get your scumread lynched because I don't see why mafia would just tunnel Kinso and not also press on someone say Bart. In fact this post in particular was the reason why I got a townlean on Kaiser...
Kaiser P. wrote:Im not really sure why. Kinso's reaction just urks me a bit more its hard to explain
Kinso i gave reasoning, your reaction to the shitposting readlist seemed fake and wierd. Read the thread instead of throwing off my read as no reasoning

Specifically the first bit, I asked him why he FoS'd Kinso and not Bart despite saying pretty much the same thing. Although it is a bit annoying how he didn't really give a reason, I felt that him still going for his opinion and not saying something along the lines of "yeah Bart also urks me FoS on him too" was coming from a town Kaiser. It shows that he felt something that made him believe bart isnt as scummy as people made him out to be and so didn't press on him, which is something mafia wouldnt do as they would most likely have pressed on both even if one of them was to a greater extent. The only reason that I can think of to explain this from a scum Kaiser perspective is if Kaiser and Kinso were both scum and Kaiser is trying to bus Kinso as he knows that Bart is town. But in that case Kinso would still be mafia and I would still vote Kinso first. It is also for that reason that I am reluctant on voting for Kaiser to go to heaven, and also because I saw him come online (along with Evian) quite a few hours after AJ announced heaven phase and never said anything.

Evian W. wrote:Vote Taka T.

........? You're joking right? After my points against you that I still want you to answer and also Taka's points + lynch against you and all you felt like doing was "Vote Taka"??? Also the last time I checked the members list (before you posted) it said that you came online about 6 hours or so after AJ commenced heaven face. I thought it was fine because you may just be writing a long post or something, but now all it looks like is that you came online to see Taka say "Vote Butch" so you decided it'll be fine to do the same? It seems clear that you thought about voting Taka before heaven phase began because no one has actually said anything with substance as of yet which means no post would have changed your mind, so then why didnt you do that when you last came on? This makes me believe moreso that you simply did this just because you saw Taka do it...
by Butch C.
on Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:07 am
 
Search in: Mafia Games
Topic: Game 34: Purgatory
Replies: 143
Views: 4882

Game 34: Purgatory

Holy moly PSanon being an absolute butch, AJ is it possible if you can fix my post because I have no idea what went wrong there Shocked
by Butch C.
on Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:43 pm
 
Search in: Mafia Games
Topic: Game 34: Purgatory
Replies: 143
Views: 4882

Game 34: Purgatory

Yaichi H. wrote:
Butch C. wrote:
Long Quote:

idk about you but it seemed pretty obvious to me that butch was just reaction testing

Well yeah but you still havent explained why not realising/pretending to not realise it was a reaction test is scummy.

Pit B. wrote:Questions for Butch:
Why haven't you made a RVS vote/pressure vote/scumread lynch yet?
Can you make us a readlist?

You analysed 2 of my posts i believe and I am pretty sure I posted 2 more before you posted ur analysis of me. But anyway I haven't made an RVS vote because I found an opportunity to transition out of the RVS stage by pressing on Taka's super early readlist. I didn't make a pressure vote simply because I didn't feel the need to, I thought my points provided enough pressure and my vote wouldn't add much to it. I haven't made a scumread vote because throughout this day I have been pressing and getting answers out of people because i have been undecided so that in the end (basically right about now) I can make my decision on who to lynch. I will make a readlist at the end of this post. You talked about my "neutrality" and "in-between behaviour", I don't actually understand how I've been neutral at all. I thought my stance can be easily deduced by the intensity of the pressure I apply on them and simply by what I say. However I understand how you wouldn't know my stance on people who I haven't pressured (for example Kinso, I didn't find it necessary to press on Kinso as much as I pressed on Evian because Kinso to me has already shown scumminess while for people like Evian I would concentrate more of my energy).

Bart S. wrote:Welp I'm probably getting lynched today so I might aswell post a read list x_x

Taka T. - scum lean
Kinso D. - scum
Butch C. - town
Evian W. - town lean
Kaiser P. - null
Kathi G. - null
Pit B. - null
Yaichi H.


They literally mean nothing if they arent explained...

Evian W. wrote:
Butch C. wrote:
Big Quote:


Heya. Glad to have you here.

Firstly, I'll address this problem and fix it once and for all - I revealed that it was a disguised RVS because I waited a full in-real life day (half in-game day without the extension) for a reply, and to my disappointment I got none. Well, sure maybe I could've put more pressure of some sorts, but looking at their first post I quickly expected something BIG after the lynch, but ehh. I swear I was gonna write something here, got a discord PM, checked that and forgot what I was about write. Hit me up if I missed anything here.

Secondly, dying out is exactly what I found scummy. He came here, went off with a "bad reaction", and again went away like magic. Besides, his post seemed more pushy, while Bart seemed to know what he's doing.



I mean you haven't really fixed it once and for all when you basically only addressed my first point. Honestly I don't get why you had to reveal it at all, it's not like Taka is the only talk of the town, you had stuff to say about Bart as well. I know I asked you why you voted him but I would have thought that if you were intending a pressure vote you would maintain the pressure and reinforce a certain point against him. Which links in to your decision to  put the whole hindsight thing with your "disguised RVS" when it unnecessarily takes off pressure from the vote and opens the door for people to ask you on why you voted Taka. You also haven't responded to why you decided to not reply to Taka despite your eagerness to hear what he has to say. I find it hard to believe that you missed it seeing as how my post was at the top of page 3 and his post is the next post (that isnt AJ). You also havent really talked about why on earth you decided to put Taka as neutral despite doing the whole disguised RVS to pressure him. You say that you "could have put more pressure", but the issue here is why you unnecessarily took off the pressure.

Your 2nd point is just....dafuq? Havent you being FoSing Bart for his reaction against Taka? Now you're saying that he seems to know what he is doing? Unless you mean Pit but the problem here is that he did pretty much nothing, so how could you possibly know that he knows what he is doing?

Evian W. wrote:
Butch C. wrote:
spoiler:



Firstly, Question now I'm genuinely confused too, did the bold stuff mean what he wrote right now or is it what I posted above?
Taka T. wrote:
(I am also glad that I aint the only one finding it hard to understand Evian's reply to me, now i know that i am not stupid)

Butch C. - Search GiphyWill make sure not to mess up my wording in the future. Sorry!

No I just misread that Taka said, he meant that for you and Kinso, if one of you flip scum, the other should be lynched as well.

I mean I never called you stupid lol, but I started doubting my intelligence when I couldn't understand what you wrote.

Anyway so for my readlist, I ain't mentioning my townreads and Kathi because I just don't have anything to say as of now, they are townreads because as of now they haven't done anything I see as scummy.

Bart: Ngl what everyone else keeps saying regarding his reaction to Taka's reads, I personally don't see. Although the reasoning of Bart making an easy fluff post to make it seem as if he knows what he is doing makes sense, I still feel as though the reaction was natural when someone immediately puts him as "hard lock scum". What I don't really like about Bart is how he has been picking and choosing which posts to reply to. I previously wrote and gave Bart as an example on how he still has this and this he could be responding to instead of coming online and doing nothing yet all he does I believe is respond to pit, make a rushed and unexplained readlist, then attack Kinso (the last one isnt a bad thing i shouldnt really be complaining). However all in all I only have him as a scumlean as of yet and I don't think he should be the one sent to hell today.

Evian W.: I feel like I've explained my problems against Evian quite a bit so I'll just summarise. I am doubting the integrity in his explanations. I am starting to think that his "disguised RVS" may have just been an on the spot explanation to make it seem as if he is benefiting town which therefore makes him a hard scumread if thats true. For that reason I don't think he should be sent to hell this early because more time is needed to get to the bottom of this.

Kinso D.: Kinso is quite defensive and seems to be overly self-conscious about getting lynched to the point where all his posts has been him complaining about getting lynched. He says how anyone who lynches him means that they find him scum but lets be honest, everyone here has played this game enough times to know how RVS works, so to me this just sounds like he is fishing for excuses for his obsession about getting lynched. He hasn't even made a single post telling us his thoughts about the rest of the game and who he finds scum. In a way it reflects the roles of town and mafia: town are out to try and find mafia while mafia are trying not to get caught. Despite his rise in activity he hasnt been doing any of what the average town would do and is instead too worried about getting lynched. I find this strange because at the same time he is being defensive, which in other words means a desire to stay alive and keep playing the game. Now it's alright for someone to be defensive as long as they show a desire to find the mafia. But I am seeing absolutely no signs of such behaviour. Therefore I think Kinso is the scummiest (when not factoring in Evian) and is my vote for today.

Yaichi H. I still can't really read Yaichi. The only thing i noticed is how he seems to give minimal explanation about anything and responds to very little in every visit to the thread despite there being quite a lot to talk about. However this still makes him neutral in my eyes.

So if I were to list everyone from town to scum it would go: Taka > Pit > Kaiser > Evian (If not guilty) > Kathi > Yaichi > Bart > Kinso > Evian (If guilty)

Kathi would be defined as pure neutrality and so everyone above kathi would be my townreads/leans.

Vote Kinso
by Butch C.
on Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:42 pm
 
Search in: Mafia Games
Topic: Game 34: Purgatory
Replies: 143
Views: 4882

Game 34: Purgatory

Evian W. wrote:Vote Taka T.

Firstly, there start. I'm not a big fan of it. Gave of random "lock"ed reads. This feels more like a forced contribution, more like "Hey I'm giving my reads early, I'm town for sure. You know that I'm town now!" I am not even sure from where did they bring that read. In the hindsight, I understand what they are doing, but I'm still up for this lynch.

From the explanations that I have from evian I understand that this was actually just a disguised RVS so to get Taka talking. However my problem here is that if you really intended this as a pressure vote, why were you so quick, as Taka said, to admit that your lynch was a disguised RVS? Taka didn't even respond so it just ruins your plan completely. It's also weird how you felt the need to include the whole hindsight thing even though it takes some of the pressure off your vote and opens the door for people (like myself) to question as to why you voted him when you appear to know his true objective. In addition to this, when Taka did blast out the massive post where he responded and gave reads on everyone, you didn't address it at all and only responded to mine and bart's posts. It's strange given that your pressure vote shows your keenness to listen to what Taka has to say and "be read further" as you said yourself. Finally you launch an early readlist which addressed Taka as "Neutral". The fact that you know Taka's true motives and truly think he is neutral is irrelevant, you told us that you made a disguised RVS in order to push Taka and give him the edge to talk (aka pressure him to talk). However you voided the pressure completely when you don't even have Taka as a scumlean. If you were indeed trying to get Taka talking via pressure then there is no reason why you would read Taka as neutral and shift the pressure off. These points collectively make me doubt whether your lynch really was a disguised RVS.

Evian W. wrote:Therefore, a readlist which has been created as of now:

Bart S. - Scumlean
Butch C. - Neutral ; D1Lean
Evian W. - Definitely town
Kaiser P. - Scum
Kathi G. - Neutral
Kinso D. - Very Wavering Neutral
Pit B. - Neutral
Taka T. - Neutral
Yaichi H. - Scumlean

Oh for clarification, D1Lean is more of my own "townlean", but extremely slight, basically that they are someone I don't want to lose day one

Something else I noticed about your readlist. You gave Yaichi a scumlean for presumably the fact he noted Bart's bad reaction, then never posted again. However Pit basically did exactly the same thing and around the same time of day. The only difference is that Pit just did an RVS while Yaichi appeared to have some sort of reason which funnily enough matches yours but without the explanation. So why is Pit neutral and Yaichi scumlean?

As to who I think should be lynched, I am still fairly undecided. I don't think a list is helpful because everyone except Taka and Evian would be in it (Evian because he actually talks and as of now I'd rather he be around for longer, this doesnt mean I am letting him off on the points i've mentioned).

I also keep seeing people (like Bart a few minutes ago) being an absolute butch and just go online then leave and it's annoying because I know there are things they can be replying to. For example in Bart's case I believe Evian said how it was weird that Bart didn't give any reply whatsoever after Taka said "no". Also both Taka and Evian called him out for unvoting me while saying absolutely nothing despite him being a topic of discussion.
by Butch C.
on Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:35 pm
 
Search in: Mafia Games
Topic: Game 34: Purgatory
Replies: 143
Views: 4882

Game 34: Purgatory

Taka T. wrote:
Evian W. wrote:
Kinso D. wrote:
Pit B. wrote:
Not sure if this sudden shift in reads was a reaction test or what, but alright.
Anyways:
Vote Kinso D.

Mind Explaining or is this just an RVS thing?

This dazzles my mind a bit. ...Honestly, there's a this part of my brain saying "THIS IS SCUM" while the other half is saying "THIS IS TOWN" since this actually makes no sense. I don't see why he would lynch you albeit RVS. But you asking for a reason... I don't know, really

hey just leaving this for posterity, if either of evian or kinso flip scum, the speed at which we should wagon the other one at should be sufficient to enter orbit


Uh what? If either one of them flipped town why should we wagon the other? Because that also implies that Kinso and Evian can't both be scum/town either and there is nothing there to suggest that they can't be in the same alignment.

Taka T. wrote:

Butch C. wrote:

Quotes:

"You FoS Bart because he is asking for elaboration on what is clearly an off the wall attempt to gather reactions, which makes sense."
Wait you scumread me because I didn't respond to Bart's request, so why does it make sense to you that Bart's request is scummy? Huh? Please respond to this.


I said it makes sense for Evian to FoS Bart because of his request since both of you i believe referred to the fact Bart asked for elaboration on reads that were obviously not serious. However I also said that I thought Bart's reaction was natural because of how you said "hard lock scum" which means personally I don't FoS Bart. Also I never scumread you, I just pressed you to make day 1 more interesting and to transition out of RVS basically (which worked!), but I know full well that even if you did respond to Bart's request there was nothing really to say.

(I am also glad that I aint the only one finding it hard to understand Evian's reply to me, now i know that i am not stupid)

ajhockeystar wrote:Very tempted to extend and so I can tell people to post. Thoughts?


Yeah this day has just been 3 people talking basically, we need more time.

Kaiser P. wrote:
Kinso D. wrote:
Taka T. wrote:
Quote:


Okay how did you get that instant town read on me? This is interesting I only had 1 post and it was about me liking the theme


something about the reaction just feels, idk off. It should be obvious from reading that Taka is just making annoying shitposts and not an actual readlist. feels wierd. FOS

Hmm so why do you find Kinso's reply weird and not Bart's then?
by Butch C.
on Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:04 am
 
Search in: Mafia Games
Topic: Game 34: Purgatory
Replies: 143
Views: 4882

Game 34: Purgatory

I apologise if i misunderstand anything but i am having a bit of trouble understanding these rip
Evian W. wrote:
Butch C. wrote:
Old quotes (to not make post too long):


Trust me, I wasn't really on and a go thinking exactly what you think I was, it was more of the fact that he's faking / disguising a good RVS for discussion and reactions. And that's why, I find his reaction slightly suspicious. Though what I did find weird was that Bart S. didn't give any reply whatsoever. Part of me is telling me that Bart S. isn't scum really for not giving a suspicious reaction now that he denied any explanation whatsoever. Bart S., can you say a words or a few?


Is this replying to the part where i said "sort of what evian was on about"? Why you finding him suspicious if he is disguising a good RVS? Surely its a good thing since you get reactions that aren't being influenced by their knowledge of it being RVS? Unless you were referring to Bart all along which in that case that post was addressed to Yaichi anyway lol.

Evian W. wrote:
Kinso D. wrote:
Pit B. wrote:
Not sure if this sudden shift in reads was a reaction test or what, but alright.
Anyways:
Vote Kinso D.

Mind Explaining or is this just an RVS thing?

This dazzles my mind a bit. ...Honestly, there's a this part of my brain saying "THIS IS SCUM" while the other half is saying "THIS IS TOWN" since this actually makes no sense. I don't see why he would lynch you albeit RVS. But you asking for a reason... I don't know, really

"Dazzles"? Really? You not letting this die in game 32? Also what screams town about this? Now that you bring this up this feels like he is a bit self-conscious of anyone lynching him despite being aware that we are in RVS...which doesnt scream scum either but i don't find anything towny about what he said.

Evian W. wrote:
Firstly, it was the early game stages. A very slight single lynch push to give someone the edge to talk and give off something to get them be read further can be great for us all. In two words, disguised RVS. Thought the text which was written wasn't a lie, far from it, and has been address in few posts above.


If the post you are referring to is the one that starts with "Trust me, I wasn't really on...etc", if that wasn't addressing bart's reaction then you're gonna have to clarify what you mean.

Evian W. wrote:
Secondly, I'm surprised that you have the need to ask that. Not that I didn't see it coming (huh, the irony..), but well it's these two posts:
Bart S. wrote:How did you get these reads after maj of people have only confirmed. Can you elaborate on your town/scum locks.


Kaiser P. wrote:ok taka seems annoying he can go to hell

They are similar - addressing to a single person, address the same point, similar choice of words and/or reactions, etc


I only asked because I wanna make sure I am understanding everyone's posts so that I can question them if I need to. Which is why I am glad I asked you about this because there's no way those 2 are similar despite addressing the same post. There is a clear distinction; Kaiser's posts seems to just disregard what Taka said and just called him "annoying" and wants him to go to hell (aka lynched), whereas Bart asked for elaboration. Therefore I dont see how you can FoS both Bart and Kaiser for similar reasons. You FoS Bart because he is asking for elaboration on what is clearly an off the wall attempt to gather reactions, which makes sense. But Kaiser gave a completely different reaction where he appears to have regarded it as some sort of RVS troll attempt. That being said, FoSing those two is completely reasonable since both reasons for doing so make sense. However personally I felt Bart's reaction was natural as Taka's choice of wording was "hard lock scum".
by Butch C.
on Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:48 pm
 
Search in: Mafia Games
Topic: Game 34: Purgatory
Replies: 143
Views: 4882

Game 34: Purgatory

Wow this activity is more shocking that pikachu's thunderbolt against jessie james and meowth! They are an embarrassment to team rocket!

Evian W. wrote:Vote Taka T.

Firstly, there start. I'm not a big fan of it. Gave of random "lock"ed reads. This feels more like a forced contribution, more like "Hey I'm giving my reads early, I'm town for sure. You know that I'm town now!" I am not even sure from where did they bring that read. In the hindsight, I understand what they are doing, but I'm still up for this lynch.


I missed this the first time i read this but first you give a surface level description of what he is doing and his possible motives which you thought was scummy. But then you talk about how in hindsight you know what his deeper intentions actually are. That would imply that you no longer believe the surface level motives are indeed true. So why are you still up for the lynch?

Evian W. wrote:
Kaiser P. wrote:ok taka seems annoying he can go to hell

Not the best of the reactions. Similar to what Bart S. said, I personally believe that this is a not a very good slot here. FoS.


I am not sure if i am missing anything but i cant seem to find any post from bart which was similar to what you or kaiser said lol. What did you mean by that?
by Butch C.
on Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:57 pm
 
Search in: Mafia Games
Topic: Game 34: Purgatory
Replies: 143
Views: 4882

Game 34: Purgatory

Taka T. wrote:Lock town:
Butch
Pit
Evian

Lean town:
Kathi
Kinso

Null:
Pit

Scum if Kathi is scum UNLESS Evian is the different alignment as Kinso in which case this is town:
Kaiser

Hard lock scum:
Bart


Discuss


At first I kinda liked this because it was quite an off the wall way to start day 1 which would generate a lot of discussion and reactions. However when bart said:
Bart S. wrote:How did you get these reads after maj of people have only confirmed. Can you elaborate on your town/scum locks.

which was a reply post that would naturally occur from your off the wall readlist, you just say:
Taka T. wrote:No.

completely shutting down that route of discussion. You explicitly told everyone in your original post to "discuss" yet it seems that you are inhibiting the discussion that you tried to start... Quite conflicting ideas no? This in turn gives me the impression that your original attempt of "discussion" was just for shows, sort of what Evian was on about.

Yaichi H. wrote:Vote Bart S.
bad reaction


Why was it a bad reaction? Wouldn't anyone want to ask why someone reads them as "hard lock scum"?
by Butch C.
on Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:16 am
 
Search in: Mafia Games
Topic: Game 34: Purgatory
Replies: 143
Views: 4882

Game 34: Purgatory

Kaiser P. wrote:you look like you have hair coming out of the back of your neck, your eybrows are bigger than your dick, your moustache isnt connected, and you have a neckbeard. I would shut up if i was you. ^_^


Salty much??? Or should i say....salty butch?
by Butch C.
on Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:11 pm
 
Search in: Mafia Games
Topic: Game 34: Purgatory
Replies: 143
Views: 4882

Game 34: Purgatory

Omg i look like such a butch
by Butch C.
on Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:33 pm
 
Search in: Mafia Games
Topic: Game 34: Purgatory
Replies: 143
Views: 4882

Game 34: Purgatory

Confirming as the deity
by Butch C.
on Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:33 pm
 
Search in: Mafia Games
Topic: Game 34: Purgatory
Replies: 143
Views: 4882

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